Gunsmithing 183c Lathe and J series Bridgeport

[Halfnutz]

I have limited info on these so far. Jusy the attached photos. South Bend 183C and a J series Bridgeport.
A friends company is closing a shop so they may be available.

Not sure yet of the size of the J series bridgeport. The 183C lathe is 6 foot.

Both are 3 phase so a converter will be required.
Both will need transported 5+ hours to get them home.

Anyone have a link, info or experience on either piece?

 

[jetmd]

From the last picture the Mill I would guess to be a Series 1 step pulley.
Good old unit. Likely will need TLC if it came from a working shop.
YouTube is a great source of information for inspection, repair & rebuilding.
A wonderful company that can help with tech & parts is:

Home

Your trusted source for Bridgeport Machine Replacement Parts and Services. We're the best place to get metalworking parts & services online!

www.machinerypartsdepot.com

Located in Ft Wayne, IN
Barry is a good guy with lots of wisdom and knowledge.
I can not speak about the lathe, not familiar with that one.
Best of Luck, I have an old Series 1 Bridgeport and it serves me well!

 

[Halfnutz]

From the last picture the Mill I would guess to be a Series 1 step pulley.
Good old unit. Likely will need TLC if it came from a working shop.
YouTube is a great source of information for inspection, repair & rebuilding.
A wonderful company that can help with tech & parts is:

Home

Your trusted source for Bridgeport Machine Replacement Parts and Services. We're the best place to get metalworking parts & services online!

www.machinerypartsdepot.com

Located in Ft Wayne, IN
Barry is a good guy with lots of wisdom and knowledge.
I can not speak about the lathe, not familiar with that one.
Best of Luck, I have an old Series 1 Bridgeport and it serves me well!

Just so happens that the machines are located in Ft Wayne. Thanks for the info. I've been perusing you tube already.

 

[Waorani]

Check out American Rotary phase converters. I've had an ADX-20 for a few years and it's been trouble free.

 

[Halfnutz]

Check out American Rotary phase converters. I've had an ADX-20 for a few years and it's been trouble free.

Looks like an ADX-10 is suitable for my application. What are you running on the "20"?

How loud is it?

 

[Waorani]

Right now mainly just a Bridgeport Series 1 mill and South Bend Heavy 10 lathe and occasionally 5hp table saw/etc. Overkill for what I have now but I want a bigger lathe so that gives me option for up to 10hp in future. Looks like a $1k increase for the 20 over the 10. I don't remember it being that big of a difference a few years ago when I bought it but maybe it was. Seems like I also bought it at a bit of a discount - maybe Christmas sale or something?

I'm in a new place now with a different power company that's supposed to be easier to work with to get 3-phase service than my old place but haven't gotten around to looking into it yet. I've got two shops with both needing 3-phase so either going to have to get service or buy another converter. Cost will be deciding factor but it would be nice to have 3-phase service.

 

[Yondering]

I'm in a new place now with a different power company that's supposed to be easier to work with to get 3-phase service than my old place but haven't gotten around to looking into it yet. I've got two shops with both needing 3-phase so either going to have to get service or buy another converter. Cost will be deciding factor but it would be nice to have 3-phase service.

I’d be wanting to use a VFD either way for the advantages rather than converting the shop to 3 phase. A good VFD will give you speed control, programmable soft starts and stops, and instant reversing if your machine isn’t already set up for it. You’ll find the speed control especially convenient on that step pulley mill (that’s what I have as well). I can’t imagine choosing a rotary phase converter for machines like that these days.

*Keep in mind reversing is dangerous if that lathe has a threaded spindle; I don’t know South Bend catalog numbers.

 

[Waorani]

I'm familiar with VFDs and can see their value but as of the moment I have 7 different 3-phase machines of varying hp with plans for a few more. For just a couple machines, maybe; but I'm not putting VFDs on multiple machines when I've already got a converter/possible option of dedicated service.

 

[Yondering]

I'm familiar with VFDs and can see their value but as of the moment I have 7 different 3-phase machines of varying hp with plans for a few more. For just a couple machines, maybe; but I'm not putting VFDs on multiple machines when I've already got a converter/possible option of dedicated service.

Sounds completely different than the OP. I thought the thread was about helping him out?

 

[cast1]

I'm familiar with VFDs and can see their value but as of the moment I have 7 different 3-phase machines of varying hp with plans for a few more. For just a couple machines, maybe; but I'm not putting VFDs on multiple machines when I've already got a converter/possible option of dedicated service.

I would still consider the Vfd for the lathe, allows very precise control of spindle speed and you can dial them way down for reaming a chamber of need be. A jog button is very handy for action trying work as well.

 

[Halfnutz]

I've discussed the VFD with our shop electrician. He mentioned them and said they were fairly new, as in 10 years or so. One issue he mentioned was that the VFD sine waves were more of a step (shaft currents) than the 120 degree sine you see with 3 phase. We are continuing to research this. Gavintoob had a youtube video, and after watching that it has me looking at both a rotary converter and the VFD. I also have a friend that is an Electrical Engineer (works for the power company) that I will be discussing this with as well.

I have limited information on the machines at this point, due to the distance from me and the availability for some one to get good information from. My contact for them is local to me and when he contacted someone to send the pictures, that person didn't even know what a "Lathe or Bridgeport" was.

ADX - Smart Phase Converter - American Rotary

ADX Extreme Duty Smart Series - The ADX Smart Series Rotary Phase Converter is designed for high inertia/friction loads. The ADX rotary phase converters have current control to provide consistent torque while starting high inertia, extremely hard starting loads, yet are precise enough for CNC...

www.americanrotary.com

 

[Wannashootit]

VFD "issue" with frequency is easily remedied with an inverter-duty motor with heavier insulation on the windings that can take the heat generated which standard duty motors have an issue with (or so I've been told, and why I purchased inverter-duty for my lathe).

The SB is a 14-1/2", UMD. Could be single tumbler, or more recent double tumbler QCGB.
IIRC, they had an oddball spindle nose thread, 2-3/8 x 6 tpi. Don't know if that was all of them, or the older single-tumbler models.
Not a huge obstacle, but you may need to machine your own backplates if that's the case.

Parts aren't going to be nearly as available as more popular 13's- be sure to evaluate carefully.

Also, if you plan on chambering barrels through the headstock you may be limited to longer barrels without needing a "workaround".
Be sure to check the length of the spindle.

 

[Yondering]

I've discussed the VFD with our shop electrician. He mentioned them and said they were fairly new, as in 10 years or so. One issue he mentioned was that the VFD sine waves were more of a step (shaft currents) than the 120 degree sine you see with 3 phase. We are continuing to research this. Gavintoob had a youtube video, and after watching that it has me looking at both a rotary converter and the VFD. I also have a friend that is an Electrical Engineer (works for the power company) that I will be discussing this with as well.

I have limited information on the machines at this point, due to the distance from me and the availability for some one to get good information from. My contact for them is local to me and when he contacted someone to send the pictures, that person didn't even know what a "Lathe or Bridgeport" was.

ADX - Smart Phase Converter - American Rotary

ADX Extreme Duty Smart Series - The ADX Smart Series Rotary Phase Converter is designed for high inertia/friction loads. The ADX rotary phase converters have current control to provide consistent torque while starting high inertia, extremely hard starting loads, yet are precise enough for CNC...

www.americanrotary.com

Yeah most of the older machinists in our shop would have recommended a rotary phase converter too. That’s because it’s what they know and are familiar with, not because it’s better than a VFD. The same guys are against using smartphones too.

I’d be extremely cautious of taking advice from anyone implying that VFDs are too new to trust. They are widely used and accepted by a lot of people.

 

[Halfnutz]

Yeah most of the older machinists in our shop would have recommended a rotary phase converter too. That’s because it’s what they know and are familiar with, not because it’s better than a VFD. The same guys are against using smartphones too.

I’d be extremely cautious of taking advice from anyone implying that VFDs are too new to trust. They are widely used and accepted by a lot of people.

Our shop electrician is younger than me and is pretty sharp, and he was the one that brought up the VFD and suggested it first. When we have more information on everything to consider, we'll figure out how to proceed.

 

[LeftyJason]

This guy is pretty good at explaining motors.

 

[Yondering]

Our shop electrician is younger than me and is pretty sharp, and he was the one that brought up the VFD and suggested it first. When we have more information on everything to consider, we'll figure out how to proceed.

OK that's good.

And to be fair, if you just wire for three phase you can still reverse the mill if the switch is wired that way, you just won't have the speed control.
As a guy who's been using a step pulley Bridgeport (clone) for a while - that speed control would be really nice, especially if you learn to power tap on the mill. It'll save you a lot of time.

 

[Waorani]

How loud is it?

Not sure what to compare it to but it's not loud at all.

 

[jetmd]

I use a RPC. Here is the one I have:

RP05-5Hp Rotary phase converter control panel 230vac

phaseconverterusa.com

Cost me $138 plus I purchased a 5hp Baldor motor from a local motor shop off Craiglist for $50.

Good 3phase motors can be found on Craigslist cheap frequently.

VFD are another good option. The Teco Westinghouse E510 is my first choice. Make sure you buy
the correct model for your HP and single phase input.

Either method is fine. No need to condemn someones choice or view.

My 5hp RPC is Very quiet!

If machines are located in Ft Wayne, I would pay Barry to do an onsite inspection.

The best money you will spend......JMHO

Respectfully submitted,

Chet