I’m running RL23 in my 22GT. I will have to see about N550. Didn’t you buy a ton of “similar to N550” from some place too?
- Thread starter Dai Bando
- Start date
I did, 16lb of it. And it shoots identical to my VV N550. Same load, same accuracy, same speed.
16# , close to 4000 rounds down range.
I'm going to have to go back and see if anyone posted pictures of groups at , at least 500 Yds.
And here are a few 600yd groups with it on a pretty windy day. Vertical was great..
I actually didn't in 22BR looking at my data. I tested the 85.5's with n550 in my 22GT. Had a low and a high node..both shot 1/4moa and SD of 5 and 6
looks like reloder 16 is good for case fill, velocity, and accurate. now i just need to swallow my pride and order a 500 dollar jug. 
Where you located? I know a shop in NW WA that could at least save you shipping and hazmatlooks like reloder 16 is good for case fill, velocity, and accurate. now i just need to swallow my pride and order a 500 dollar jug.
Haha ok not as far “west side” as you’d need to be
What powder was it? I thought it was MP 610 which is OSS, but their description now says it's a ball powder similar to StaBall.
I don't remember the exact MP number. I'll look the next time I'm in the shop. Says N550 right on it
It says MP610.. I actually bought 24lb of this. Here the label. I also have 2 of these N555 ones I haven't tested yet along with the 4451...
I also have these as well. The N133 is dead on to VV N133 in 223rem, I've shot a bunch of it as well.
I also have 24lb of MP540 which has 308 and 223 data on the jug but no "similar to language." All reports I've read on this one people raved about it and said it was almost identical to N140 but a tad faster, close to 8208. I haven't tested it yet
I also have these as well. The N133 is dead on to VV N133 in 223rem, I've shot a bunch of it as well.
I also have 24lb of MP540 which has 308 and 223 data on the jug but no "similar to language." All reports I've read on this one people raved about it and said it was almost identical to N140 but a tad faster, close to 8208. I haven't tested it yet
Padom—thanks for the info. Looks like I have some testing to do.
Westsidecamper—we must be in the same zipcode. Can spare a little N550 if you want to try that.
ZY
Westsidecamper—we must be in the same zipcode. Can spare a little N550 if you want to try that.
ZY
Seams the one site I found ? is out of all their MP powders .
Padom , are all the MP powders you have ball powders ?
Padom , are all the MP powders you have ball powders ?
heads up to you (sorry if you already knew this) but "midwest powders" is just the name American Reloading sells bulk powders under. They're often the same formulation as canister powder. there's a scam site that claims to sell it but only american reloading actually sells them. they do sometimes get stick powders in - i've seen them sell "like 8208" and others before.
No, they are not all ball powers. All the MP powders that say equivalent to say N133, N550, N140 or 8208, 4451 are all stick powders and look just like the actual equivalent to powders I also have on the shelf....
Yea, I think the days of this being a hidden gem/secret are over. I was buying 16 to 24lb at a time of all this stuff for years at sub $100 per 8lb. But American is always out of stock now and the prices arent anywhere the crazy good bargain they used to be..
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looks like reloder 16 is good for case fill, velocity, and accurate. now i just need to swallow my pride and order a 500 dollar jug.
My load for 85.5 is 31.4 rl16 at 2.270 coal in a 30” 1:7 mcgowen with 450’s. I am getting 3057. I have 4 lbs of rl16 but seeing that it is really good for the heavies i just ordered 8 lbs myself. I about chocked myself. $500+
But now i have a lifetime supply
David
How many shots can you put on these barrels? I assumed something low like 2000.
I don’t know yet either but i was getting a little over 2k with my 6x47L so i was figuring that this is even a little more overbore that i would get 1800 or so.
I am interested to hear what others are getting with 1:7. Based on my calculations I have 12 full pounds of rl16 is over 2600 rounds which i am betting is more than this barrel will do.
David
Depends on how you decide a barrel is done, I suppose. I'm at 2500 rounds running a very similar load, 1:7 twist, 24" barrel with what I presume is a 0.218" Bartlein bore. It had slowed down less than 20 fps at the 2000 mark, then I changed bullets and primers so hard to say after that. But it was still cheerfully sub-MOA at the 2500 mark, landed the best placement I've ever had at a local PRS regional match with it.
At this point I don't think I'd take it to a 2-day, but it should still be fine for training. Wouldn't surprise me at all if it made 3k, I'll probably take it that far via training.
I was gonna say, 2000-2500 mark is what Im expecting my first one to go out at....maybe 3000. But again, that depends on a few factors. PRS styler shooting, hotter loads, 218 vs 219, specific powders, etc. All of it matters. I run a VERY MILD 3000fps 90smk load that just plain hammers in my 2 barrels so we shall see.
tried n550. seems fine except it gets the barrel hot quickly.
Hey guys so I'm wanting to do a barreled action with a curtis Valor and a brux barrel mtu contour, I want either 22br or 22bra still deciding is there any advantage one way or the other? Also planning to go with the sac dies for sizer and seater. I wanna build it around the 85.5 Berger. What twist and freebore should I do?
I'm definitely liking the 22 Dasher as the sweet spot for the 22 caliber in PRS.
It'll hit the 3200fps speed limit, so I ruled out needing the extra case capacity of the 22GT. My buddy runs one of those, but for some reason his seems more finicky than my Dasher. It has days where his groups just kinda go to crap.
I run 88gr ELDs for regular club/regional matches with 34grs of H4350. And I use the exact same load and seating depth for 90gr Atips for Pro Series matches. It's usually right around 3080fps, very accurate and consistent.
It'll hit the 3200fps speed limit, so I ruled out needing the extra case capacity of the 22GT. My buddy runs one of those, but for some reason his seems more finicky than my Dasher. It has days where his groups just kinda go to crap.
I run 88gr ELDs for regular club/regional matches with 34grs of H4350. And I use the exact same load and seating depth for 90gr Atips for Pro Series matches. It's usually right around 3080fps, very accurate and consistent.
I got 0.130” freebore and wouldn’t have minded more, like 0.150-60”. The bottom of the bearing surface juuuust clears the neck/shoulder junction, would be nice to have a little more margin there just for my peace of mind.
What twist do you run and what would you recommend if building around the 85.5 I'm thinking 7.5
Currently I have a 24" 7" twist, Bartlein 5R. Going to a 26" 1:7.5" per @padom's post earlier in this thread, still Bartlein 5R. Pretty sure it's a 0.218 bore rather than the 0.219" that people seem to like, but I was getting near the end of my current barrel and needed something soon.
I'm at 2500 rounds, standard Bartlein stainless, and it's possible that the barrel has slowed down about 30 fps but it's hard to tell cause I've changed away from the 88gr I was running to the 85.5s. They both did well for me, I wouldn't stress if I had to run 88's again.
New barrel is the MODBB, curious to see how it compares. In particular, hoping the rumors of it cleaning easier are true, and if it gives 50% better barrel life it'll more than pay for itself in the replacement barrel cost alone.
Nice so I'm at like 100 feet above sea level so I think I'm gonna go with a 7 twist at 26inch. I mean bergers stability calculator says to at least lol.. my question is what is to stable and what are the problems? Like if someone was around 2.5 or more?
Too stable can result in larger groups, as the higher RPMs will tend to accentuate minor variability in bullet centers of gravity.
More relevant to you, "more stable" at typical 22BR speeds likely means "blowing up bullets." To get a stability of 2.5 with your inputs (I'm assuming 3000 FPS and 59° F), you'd need to spin the bullet through a 1:5.6" twist barrel, which would yield almost 386k RPM. I would expect those bullets to come unglued; most bullet makers recommend an upper limit somewhere between 300k-320k.
Ya thanks I want to mostly shoot 85.5s, 80.5s 80 eld 88 eld 90 vld and maybe some 75 eld/vld I just wanna make sure if I go 7 twist at 26 inch that 75s will be alright still
Shorter bullets are easier to stabilize. They also uncork faster, so higher RPMs. If you can stabilize a long/heavy bullet, anything under that will be stable.
Not sure why you want to run so many different bullets, but to each dey own.
Ya I mean I'm mostly gonna be shooting 80 to 90 but I also like to chase stuff too with using grt and what not it's half the fun for me lol.. is there any velocity gain in bra over br or is it mostly feeding benefits?
If you're talking feeding benefits, I think you might be thinking of 22GT. BRA is mostly just trying to accomplish more case volume than the BR, but I'll defer to others to confirm. For what it's worth, 22BR feeds fine out of my 12-rd MDT BR mags in my Archimedes, unless I short-stroke it. When I do, the bullet tip can hit the breech face and jam. Other combos of actions, stock/chassis, magazine, and breech design may differ. The CDG I would expect to avoid that issue due to the coned breech, for example.
Alright thanks ya I have a 223ai and love it just wanna try a br variant. Gt is too fast for what I want to do. Also since I have bushings from SAC from .245 to .251 I think I should be good.. what bushing do you guys use? And I have the 40° sac headspace comparator which their website says works for 223ai and 22bra
For freebore I've had great luck with .120 to .130". I've pretty much tried everything from .050 in my first 22BR, to .105", and all the way out to .180" running 95gr SMKs in a 22 Creedmoor.
I've burned up a couple 22 Creedmoors, about 5 22BR barrels, and I'm on my 3rd 22 Dasher barrel. All have been .219 bore 7" twist from 22" to 28" in length. I had one .217 bore in a Proof Heavy Palma 22BR barrel and it pressured funny. I dished it off.
I also have a .223AI that is on its 3rd barrel, It's my trainer and I put a ton of 75gr BTHP Match bullets from Hornady through it. I buy those in 6k bulk boxes. They are surprisingly accurate for the cost. Perfect for an inexpensive training round. Or I run an 80gr ELDM when i shoot that rifle in a match. I also use all 7" twist barrels for that rifle.
With the exception of the 22 Creedmoor and hilariously fast rounds cranking 350k+ RPMs, I've not seen any jacket failures with 88gr, 90gr Atips, 85.5gr Bergers, or 75gr Match bullets. I was blowing up the 95gr SMK in my Creedmoor.
I've burned up a couple 22 Creedmoors, about 5 22BR barrels, and I'm on my 3rd 22 Dasher barrel. All have been .219 bore 7" twist from 22" to 28" in length. I had one .217 bore in a Proof Heavy Palma 22BR barrel and it pressured funny. I dished it off.
I also have a .223AI that is on its 3rd barrel, It's my trainer and I put a ton of 75gr BTHP Match bullets from Hornady through it. I buy those in 6k bulk boxes. They are surprisingly accurate for the cost. Perfect for an inexpensive training round. Or I run an 80gr ELDM when i shoot that rifle in a match. I also use all 7" twist barrels for that rifle.
With the exception of the 22 Creedmoor and hilariously fast rounds cranking 350k+ RPMs, I've not seen any jacket failures with 88gr, 90gr Atips, 85.5gr Bergers, or 75gr Match bullets. I was blowing up the 95gr SMK in my Creedmoor.
Awesome thanks so would you recommend. 219 over .218? If so why? Just less pressure?
What is the 223AI barrel life like compared to the Dasher/BR?
I know you are running the 75s pretty slow but the case capacity of 223AI isn't that far off 22BR.
My 223ai is a brux barrel that's at 2500 and I shot this group on Friday 
I think the br holds about 5-6 grains more. I wanna build a br though for better ignition it seems like in my 223ai the average SD is around 9 with es in the 20s
I cant really speak to the the .218 over the .219. I'm not sure if I've ever had a .218 bore. Shawn Burkholder of Hawk Hill used a .219 bore, and every barrel from him treated me phenomenally well. So I stuck with them.
The .217 bore just sucked. 40 to 50fps faster using the same load and never achieved the consistent grouping or lower standard deviations that I got with my Hawk Hill barrels. Austin Orgain recently bought Hawk Hill's equipment and is now making barrels. I hope he continues with the .219 bore.
I do run them slow. I shoot the 75gr BTHP at 2920 to 2900fps. That's over 24grs of XBR8208 loaded progressively on my Dillon 650 at about 800 rounds an hour.
I got 6200 rounds from my last barrel. It was still shooting when I pulled it, but was losing velocity. I got 5000 rounds out of my first barrel, but I was driving it faster. I.think it is unnecessary to push it for what I use it for.
I do use 25.2grs under the 80gr ELDM if I shoot a local match, but I only do that two or three times a year. I'm more likely to plug in the 88gr ELDM and shoot my Dasher.
Ya I guess I'm not sure on my 223ai bore but based on brux website the .219 fastest twist is a 8 and the .218 goes down to 6.5 twist so since mine is a 7 twist I'm guessing it's a .218
So can anyone tell me why someone would choose .219 over .218?
In general terms, less stress on the jackets. A tighter bore squeezes down on the bullet more than a bigger bore.. Some bullets have thinner jackets than other bullets. Tighter bore and thinner jacket bullets could potentially cause bullet failures when pushed to higher velocities... Also, tighter bore, squeezing tighter on that bullet requires more force to get it down the barrel which in turn means higher pressures....
Again, Im speaking in general terms on whats going on. I personally havent had any issues shooting 218 and 219 barrels. Ive shot both in 22BR without issue.... I did find more forgiving, more consistently accurate results using a 7.5 twist vs 7 twist in my 22BR's.. Same load development, same powder, same bullets, same everything, I achieved more more consistency from an accuracy standpoint and wider nodes during load development with the 7.5 twist... This turned out to apply to 22GT as well.
Awesome thanks for the information! What bullets are you running in that 7.5 twist?
All the ones Ive posted test results in this thread.
80smk, 80VLD, 85.5 Berger, 88 ELD, 90smk
80smk, 80VLD, 85.5 Berger, 88 ELD, 90smk
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