Who did your barrel?
- Thread starter Subhunter2
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I thought I'd try a 22creed, seems like a neat rd. Nuke 2.0 action, 26" varm criterion 7tw barrel nut, Peterson srp 22creed brass, cci450, h4831sc and 95smk. Started load testing today with 42.4gr set as max, with plans to go up if primers looked alright. Bullets are set .020 off rifling as a generic starting point. Anywho, 5 powder weights/3rds per weight just to see what it will do. Ground was saturated and bright sun/60° with 4-5mph wind= some mirage and soup to deal with.
Everything was going fine until first rd of the 4th powder charge. Bullet didn't impact as predicted. As I scanned target in that area, I then saw a large rip 4" low and 3-4"left of aiming point. I shot the next 2 rds and they landed as predicted. Shot the 5th charge weight and those rds performed as expected.
Has anyone saw or heard issues with 95smk? I generally assume keyholes are too slow fps/too slow twist. I had no issue at slower/lower powder charges. Barrel was allowed to cool to ambient before string. Got any ideas?
Everything was going fine until first rd of the 4th powder charge. Bullet didn't impact as predicted. As I scanned target in that area, I then saw a large rip 4" low and 3-4"left of aiming point. I shot the next 2 rds and they landed as predicted. Shot the 5th charge weight and those rds performed as expected.
Has anyone saw or heard issues with 95smk? I generally assume keyholes are too slow fps/too slow twist. I had no issue at slower/lower powder charges. Barrel was allowed to cool to ambient before string. Got any ideas?
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What's your barrel twist and rifling profile? 6.5"/4 groove?
I'd read through the 20pages of 22creed loads and seemed that guys that had 6.5tw barrels seemed to have issues with bullet blow ups and as barrel wore seemed more frequent. It just seemed weird that I had a keyhole at that speed. I'd have thought at lower charges, ok, but those holes are perfectly rd.
How fast are those loads?
30rds on barrel, only had 42.4 loaded as max, didn't want to trash brass or pull down if I hit pressure. That was 42.0 and ave 3060fps. The start load was 2990. All bullet holes were rd, except the first shot of 42.0gr(3065fps). It about had to be a bullet issue. Everything was stable above and below it.
Lower groups were with a different rifle, but had another failure with 95smk.
Yep, I've saw guys drive them a fair amount faster. The bullet blowups I've saw, no part of the bullet got past 35yds, much less to 100yds. Keyholes on target were stability issue or baffle strikes, I thought. I would think if I'm on edge of stability at 3060 or 3140, than the slower loads would have failed miserably. And if I was blowing up a bullet at 3062fps, then every bullet shot today(3110ave, 3142ave, and 3172 ave) would have blew up. Just checked actual twist in barrel with a tight patch, right at 7tw or maybe a smidge faster.
Might have just started to tear or compromise the jacket
Running the numbers in berger stability Calc, not sure how a 95smk can be run without blow up or stability issue. My load is 1.35 and 1.34. To get to magical 1.5, it needs 3225fps and a 6.5tw which is spinning bullets at 358k rpm. It's does shoot the 85.5bergers really well, only downside is this chamber is perfect for 95smk. With the bergers, to get within .060 of rifling, the bearing surface area is only in case nk about .130". I don't like having less than bullet dia of bearing surface in nk, but to get close to that I'd be jumping .140". For some reason, the berger loads will show first rd being 40+fps faster than the rest of the string. Any other load or rifle doesn't do that, so has to be something about this load. 1 example, but every 85.5 load does this.
Switch to 95smk....
Switch rifles....
Switch to 95smk....
Switch rifles....
@6brshooter I think the 95 SMK is just not for you. I would pick a shorter / lighter bullet. And I wouldn't worry so much about getting close to the lands. I'm jumping the 75 ELDM a mile and it hammers.
Yeah, that's where I'm at. I did just talk to Sierra tech, he was pretty familiar with that 95smk and it was designed for service rifle and needed 6.5 tw to stabilize it but it wouldn't take the rpm that the bigger 22s would launch at. I did tell him that some guys were getting them to work and his reply was wait until their barrel has 4-600rds on it and see how they like it. I asked about the 90gr smk and he said it was the same as 95, just not designed for the bigger 22s speed. Super nice guy and seemed fairly knowledgeable but not sure what the point Sierra is trying to do. Make the big heavy for caliber bullets for cartridges with balls, not 223 or 224valk. He recommended the 80smk for its toughness, but its pretty lame bc wise. I will soldier on with the 85.5 as they haven't landed sideways and have shot the better groups so far in testing.
I saw 85.5’s blow up last year in a match and the guy was using 22GT at the 3200fps speed limit for PRS.
Makes you wonder if that's why there was a pause on production. Maybe it was just typical round-robin'ing the machines to make different bullets. Or maybe they realized it was a flawed bullet and they didn't make anymore until people complained enough and said fuck it. If they'll buy it, we'll sell them.
Yeah. I was all set to get some 90smk to try but I can't find any less than 250 quantities and don't want that many if they don't shoot or land sideways. I wish this freebore was .060 shorter and it was a 7.5 or 8. I knew that there would be a narrow envelope between stability-accuracy-blow up, but its almost so narrow that the wiggle room in nonexistent. When these super long bullets get going this fast and some wear/firecracking of barrel is in play, the fps and tw really start fighting each other.
I did just talk to forster, my 22creed fl sizer die is overhoned in nk and doesn't add any nk tension. .250 pin gage jiggles in nk of die and expander is .2225(at least it's correct). My 1x fired sized brass is a slip fit on bullets, fml.
I did just talk to forster, my 22creed fl sizer die is overhoned in nk and doesn't add any nk tension. .250 pin gage jiggles in nk of die and expander is .2225(at least it's correct). My 1x fired sized brass is a slip fit on bullets, fml.
Twist and rd count?
I've been shooting 22 CM's for the past seven years. all six of them have never had a bullet blow up in the air....
No tight bores, all of them have been .219's, and I don't let the carbon build up. all of them are either 6.5's, or 1-7's.
I've driven 88's and 90's past 3250fps, 75's past 3600fps with zero issues.
No tight bores, all of them have been .219's, and I don't let the carbon build up. all of them are either 6.5's, or 1-7's.
I've driven 88's and 90's past 3250fps, 75's past 3600fps with zero issues.
Mind sharing which 90s? Thanks
I can blow up Bergers in a 1:7 at 3250
I have a 6.5 Twist Bartlein 5R at 24"... I would run 88s at just over 3250 and they would no show to the target more than 50% of the time. The 95 SMK... they don't hold together at about anything over 3060... I went down to 2950, but switched powder recently and the new node is a touch faster and I knowingly will likely lose a few. (not used for hunting or comps, so living with it). I was going to shoot solids, but at the end of the day just decided shoot it out and likely be done with the 22CM and move over at a 22GT or 22 Dasher.
I had a second barrel spun up for an Impact and went a little shorter freebore to run 85s to 95s and also went with a 7.5 twist Benchmark at 26". Never used it much and gave it to a friend and he absolutely loves it. He has had phenomenal luck with this combo... My experience says to stay with a 7.5 twist at roughly 0.100 freebore, but again, that is just my experience. (keep in mind, my opinion is free, and you tend to get what you pay for!)
I've been contemplating moving to 22 dasher after this barrel and I think it's almost done.
I think the 22 creed is great, don't get me wrong, but for what I use it for now, a 22 Dasher or 22 GT I think is the ticket! I originally built a 22CM for coyotes... but then went to a 6 PRC and have not looked back.
Why not just use a slower twist to keep the RPMs down? Sure, the BC may not be optimized but whatever. Mine is a 7.7" and I use 4831SC and keep it under 3150. That's 295K rpms. I'm at 6000ft ASL and the BC is optimized at this elevation. The 22 Creed can work, but some of these long, pointy high BC bullets are flawed logic wise.
The 22 Creed is my favorite for shooting yotes but a Dasher would work just as well IMO. 6 PRC would be sweet also.
I've got another 7 twist barrel sitting here. I guess I could sell it. Probably the smart thing would be to slow the twist down and shoot a bit lighter bullets.
I agree, I think the 7.5 or even a 7.7 twist is perfect.
Don't know about the 219 bore or the twist ,but for a button barrel ,all four of my ratchet rifled barrels are " shooters".
I bought a lot of the 95smks the other day. Im planning on running a 16” 6.8 twist with the next barrel and pushing them around 2800fps to keep the rpm’s around 296k. It will be a hunting gun anyway and should still have less wind drift at distance than the 80elds I’m running at 3070fps out of an 18” Bbl now.
I’m running 95 smk’s in my 22 creed around 2880 in a 6.5 twist 18” barrel with good results
I have been playing with the new 62gr ELD-VT’s and they sure add another gear to the 22 CM.
In my short barrel 20 inch they easily cruise at 3550 and in my 26 inch I stopped at 3720 as I am getting up there in RPM’s in a 1/8.
Only shot a couple coyotes so far but they seem to be accurate and deadly.
I agree with the above a 1/7.75 is probably the ideal twist and I just go 1/8 for my purposes But have always thought anything faster twist was too much of a good thing.
In my short barrel 20 inch they easily cruise at 3550 and in my 26 inch I stopped at 3720 as I am getting up there in RPM’s in a 1/8.
Only shot a couple coyotes so far but they seem to be accurate and deadly.
I agree with the above a 1/7.75 is probably the ideal twist and I just go 1/8 for my purposes But have always thought anything faster twist was too much of a good thing.
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Glad to hear the 62 ELD VT are working well. I plan to load some in both 22CM and 22-250. Both 1:8 twist.
Found a couple powder charges with the 85.5gr that seem to work, 3205(bottom 5) and 3235(top 5). Felt a few in bottom group break high and right, scope is farther back than optimal for prone shooting and felt a bit scrunched up.
On a side note, has anyone saw or dealt with a first shot faster than rest in string? For some reason, irregardless of powder charge, the first rd in every 85.5gr load is 35-45fps faster. Confirmed with magnetospeed and Garmin. Switch to different bullet and it's normal. Rd Robin between 85.5 and 95smk strings and first rd of 85.5 was fast, normal speed on 95smk. Any ideas? I don't think it can be barrel or loading technique as it's consistently first rd and always/only with 85.5s.
I've never noticed it, I'm using H4350. The ES is always low when I check velocities.
It's not powder related as I was using same powder with 95smk. I've got some 90gr vld ordered to try. If the 85.5 shoot the best, I'll take them to 800 and see how they watermark.
What's a good starting load to obtain the highest velocity shooting the new Hornady 62gr ELD-VT bullets 26" bbl 8" twist?
Highest velocity load or starting load? With what powder?
Starting load. I have numerous Fast, medium, and slow-burning rate powders. Re#17 was suggested. In my standard 22/250, W-W 760 is king. In my 220 Swift 4064 and AA 2700, produces high velocities.
Out of those W-W 760 would be a good choice I think. I have ran 4000MR out of a 26 inch barrel at 3730 fps. My load was 44.5gr but of course hasn’t been pressure tested so use at your own risk.
Currently I am using Reloder 15.5 and my max is 40.5
Just so no confusion this was with 62 gr VT
Currently I am using Reloder 15.5 and my max is 40.5
Just so no confusion this was with 62 gr VT
4000MR and Reloder 15.5 both will get 3500+ from a 1/8 20 inch barrel.
Don‘ t know if I would try the 62 VT if I were running a 1/7 twist due to RPM ‘s but I am sure someone is or will so that will shake out as more folks get their hands on them.
