.223 reloads - ugly groups, chuckles, and head scratching

drew_235

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I'm open to some constructive feedback on where to start troubleshooting my most recent day at the range. I have a pair of T3x .223 rifles - a CTR and a Varmint. The CTR currently has a 3-15 Viper PST Gen2 and was shot for the very first time yesterday using Federal gold medal ammo. It shot well and my groups were on par with what I'm used to shooting with the Federal gold medal ammo. I mention the CTR only to validate the fact that I can shoot reasonably and was not subject to some gravitational vortex of horror yesterday.
The other T3x .223 is a varmint model in a KRG Bravo stock. This rifle has about 500 rounds through it but was wearing a brand new Vortex Golden Eagle scope that I mounted last week and had never shot. I was cocky and put just enough rounds on paper to get a bullseye with the Federal gold medal, with dial adjustments between each shot and then started my strings of freshly reloaded ammo for groups at 100 yards. The weather was cold, raining, and a little bit of wind.
The components were as follows: Win white box 5.56 brass (1x fired in an AR), full length sized with a Forster die (not small base), trimmed/deburred/chamfered with a Giraud, and decrimped the primer pocket. Powder is 8208 with CCI 450 primers under a 75gr ELD-M that was seated with a Forster micrometer die. 6 powder charges between 23.2gr and 24.5gr, 5 rounds at each weight for a total of 30.
I measured with a Hornady OAL gauge and my base to lands with a 75gr ELD-M in the varmint was 1.875" and in the CTR it was 1.908". That's a .033" difference between the varmint with ~500 rounds through it and a never-fired CTR. I subtracted .020" from the 1.875" and used that as the conservative OAL and came up with 1.855" base to ogive and 2.412 COAL.
During the first string, one piece of brass looked like this. A ring of soot around the mid body of the brass and noticeable soot around the neck. Most rounds had soot around the neck and only 2 or 3 had the ring around the body.
20210409_151708.jpg


Then I started cranking out groups like this. At 23.4gr I had 2 shots in the same hole in 2 different spots and a flyer.
20210409_190226.jpg


At 24.3 it just looked like a shotgun pattern.
20210409_190209.jpg


I'd already made the trip to the range, so I slogged through all of the rounds and laughed about how bad things looked.

Where should I start?
My plan is to return to the range with both rifles. Shoot a few strings of Federal gold medal through the Varmint with the Golden Eagle scope. If the groups are bad, swap to another scope and see if the groups improve. Pick a powder charge and load ~10 more rounds to allow for a group from the Varmint and the CTR.

Do I need to be concerned about the chamber on the Varmint being ~.030" shorter than the CTR? I can borrow a bore scope from a friend if needed.
Should I switch brass and try some of the Federal or Hornady I have sitting under my bench?
 

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308sako

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    I shoot a Sako 24" 1 in 8 twist and your top load of IMR 8208 XBR @ 2.412" COAL is .003" shorter than mine. FWTW, that load is an absolute hammer for me. My LabRadar claims 3003 ft/sec as well...(atttached) picture is from a 100 yard group in decent conditions this past Fall. Mine in LC brass with Wolf SRM primers, but really not significantly different from what you are doing. I do not feel that the heavy for caliber bullets are that sensitive to "jump" that your distance to the lands is the end all of why your rifle didn't like this combination. So suggestions are to test the torque on your action screws, and the scope mount as well. I am assuming the twist in your barrel is appropriate as the holes seem quite round in your pictures...


    EDit to Add: For a bolt gun running this sort of load I would prefer my brass to be just a little snug on closing the bolt, so don't over size the brass for this rifle. Brass fired in another rifle first with no accounting for your bolt's Head Space is asking for poor results... YMMV of course :)
    10 5 20 Sako 223.jpg
     

    drew_235

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    I shoot a Sako 24" 1 in 8 twist and your top load of IMR 8208 XBR @ 2.412" COAL is .003" shorter than mine. FWTW, that load is an absolute hammer for me. My LabRadar claims 3003 ft/sec as well...(atttached) picture is from a 100 yard group in decent conditions this past Fall. Mine in LC brass with Wolf SRM primers, but really not significantly different from what you are doing. I do not feel that the heavy for caliber bullets are that sensitive to "jump" that your distance to the lands is the end all of why your rifle didn't like this combination. So suggestions are to test the torque on your action screws, and the scope mount as well. I am assuming the twist in your barrel is appropriate as the holes seem quite round in your pictures...
    Yes, both barrels are 1:8 twist from the factory. While I didn't explicitly mention it, I do plan on removing the varmint rifle from the chassis and reseating/torquing it to ~45 in*lbs to verify it's good to go.
    I am glad to hear that I am on the right track with the powder charge and bullet selection - thank you.
     
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    n0glock

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    I do one more step on my .223 brass . I run it through a mandrel die helps some, I have a Tikka in a Bravo the first time I put it in I did not get the recoil lug seated correctly.
     
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    Mudflap621

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    When doing load workup on my varmint I noticed once that I was on the second firing from that particular rifle things became more consistent. I’m contributing it to the brass being formed to the chamber.
     

    iukamedic

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    I ran into some weird stuff with my tikka varmint. I ended up just loading mag length for ar and started to have consistency. The 75’s never came around for me but the 77smk with varget is the bomb.
     

    whatsupdoc

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    spife7980

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    I guess they are finicky but once you find what it likes its happy.
    This is my most recent load verification of the original recipe with the 75elds, had to drop .1 from my original 23.7 grains after 7 firings on the brass to make it smile again.
    C307C93B-2818-4D1F-8012-7666B8B7F94A.jpeg
     
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    drew_235

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    I guess they are finicky but once you find what it likes its happy.
    This is my most recent load verification of the original recipe with the 75elds, had to drop .1 from my original 23.7 grains after 7 firings on the brass to make it smile again.
    View attachment 7602318
    Some of those look similar to the groups I was getting, but the powder charge delta between each of your groups is only .1 grain and the jump from 23.5 gr to 23.6 gr made a dramatic difference.
     

    drew_235

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    Is the ~.033" difference in measured chamber length between the two rifles not that big of a deal? I thought there would be several comments on that by now and am surprised at the lack of interest in that detail.
     

    spife7980

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    Is the ~.033" difference in measured chamber length between the two rifles not that big of a deal? I thought there would be several comments on that by now and am surprised at the lack of interest in that detail.
    I wouldn’t be worried about it. Could be the length or it could just be reamer wear causing the angles to close in a bit later with that bullet profile etc, could be tons of stuff but none of it should preclude it from shooting well. But it may just not like them.
     
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    drew_235

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    I have a Tikka T3 Varmint in 223, but due to the short magazine in the factory stock, I can’t seat bullets close to the lands - usually around .040” off. Is this why some folks are putting them in different stocks and bottom metal?
    Yes, absolutely, as well as the improved ergonomics vs. the factory stock.
     
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    st1650

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    I load my 75 eld-m and 80 eld-m at 2.515 and 2.525 coal on my DTA SRS conv and they group 1/2 in. The 77 smk and 77 scenar-l aren't that coal sensitive and still groups phenomenal under 300 yards. I use XBR but starting a varget ladder to see if I can get same grouping with lower ES spread.
     

    drew_235

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    If you had to recommend a replacement stock and whatnot, what’s your choice?
    If you want to dabble in the realm of aftermarket stocks, the KRG Bravo is really, really hard to beat for the price point. A lot of people will also recommend an XLR Element/Envy or any one of the MDT offerings and they are equally fantastic, but also twice the cost of a KRG Bravo.
     

    reubenski

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    I guess they are finicky but once you find what it likes its happy.
    This is my most recent load verification of the original recipe with the 75elds, had to drop .1 from my original 23.7 grains after 7 firings on the brass to make it smile again.
    View attachment 7602318
    I meant I had a hard time keeping them in tune. But I didn't load them in .1gr increments. Maybe that's what they need.
     

    Yondering

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    Yes, both barrels are 1:8 twist from the factory.

    I'm betting your Tikka just doesn't have enough twist for the 75 ELD-M; I ran into the exact same thing with another 1:8 twist Tikka last summer with the same bullet and a few different powders. Ultimately all groups with that bullet in that rifle were garbage, although it shot great with the 75 BTHP and 77 SMK.

    Twist rate is not the absolute that some believe it to be, or at least it's not the full story; throat geometry and the way the bullet starts into the rifling are also part of it as well as other details. Some claim to have the 75 ELD (or older Amax) shooting well from 1:8 barrels, but it definitely didn't pan out in this Tikka, no matter what seating depth.

    On the other hand I do have that bullet shooting well in a 1:7 AR15 barrel, but it requires cut magazines at 2.355" to get it to shoot; it's too long for normal mag length.
     

    DJL2

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    It’s not a .223, but I’ve got a lot of recent experience with terrible results, so...

    Seating depth can matter an awful lot, but it won’t necessary be the same for both barrels (and I’m not enough of an OCW nerd to give you the theory on how to predict the right choice).

    Some powders and some bullets don’t jive with some barrels. It’s voodoo and I can’t explain it. I’m loading for my KRG SOTIC and doing some work-up with Berger Hybrids (130 and 140) as well as 130 TMK. Those aren’t supposed to be jump sensitive and they’re good bullets...so far, I’ve found one .006” window with the TMK that shoots about as good as factory ammo (Hornady 140 ELD-M, 140 BTHP, S&B 140 FMJ are all sub 1/2 MOA for 5 shots, for example). That’s all with H4350...gonna be IMR 4451 soon.

    Second case study in Voodoo, my .30-06 M70. I ran out of 208 ELD-M, which were shooting quite nicely with H4831sc (which I’m also almost out of). Switched to 195 TMK to try...so far, I think I’ve fired one group at 100 yards with the latter than is as tight as the 208s at 200 yards. If I hadn’t been shooting the SOTIC and the M70 back to back yesterday, it would have wrecked my confidence entirely because it’s hard to believe a rifle can shoot as badly as what I was seeing on paper. I had some tight MV results with Superformance, so was doing a seating depth test. I had one group go under an inch (barely).

    All that is a long way to say...you might need to experiment a bit.
     

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    drew_235

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    Here's my plan for additional data gathering:
    I have re-seated/re-torqued the rifle in the chassis, the rings on the base, and the scope in the rings for the varmint rifle.
    1) Using Federal gold medal ammo, shoot groups in the varmint rifle to verify I don't have any gross failures of the rifle or scope.
    2) Using brass from the same lot previously used (1x fired from an AR then full length resized), select 2 powder charges and load 10 rounds in each. 5 rounds of each powder charge will be shot from the varmint and 5 rounds from each in the CTR - compare groups to see if the rifles accomplish grossly the same thing with the same reloads.
    3) Using the brass from the previous test (will have been through my varmint rifle for fire forming), repeat the 30 shot test to see if my groups are different than the first time.
    4) Repeat step #2 but with 75gr BTHP vs ELD-M.
     
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    Mudflap621

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    I wouldn’t assume both rifles are going to perform best with same load although it would be sweet. From my research and personal experience both the ctr and varmint should both be sub moa guns with right load.
     
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    Cfshooter

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    I am at 23.1 of XBR with 75g BTHP and they shoot great out of my 20" 1/9 twist. Don't be scared to start at mag length and go from there. I am at 1.830 BTO.
     

    DownhillFromHere

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    Don't assume your brand-new scope is working correctly. While doing so is a pita and costs ammo, I'd swap the scopes and see what happens. I had a new Vortex Viper PST on my Vudoo... I'd get a typical group, make an elevation or windage change, and next group would double or triple in size at 50 yards. Sent it back to Vortex, and they failed it & sent me a new one - which tracks as reliably as my Razors and ZCO. It did take me awhile to trust it.
     
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    DJ 480

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    I feel like most things with reloading, quality components and a Scientific approach pay off. This is common for a 5 shot group to start the day with my .223. This load has always been a hammer.
    It could be your rifle just doesn’t like that bullet. Try something else and validate your initial findings. It sucks testing in this climate of lack of components, but maybe a new ladder with a different bullet will help solidify your concerns or give answers.
    I feel your pain, nothing worse than looking at a target while scratching your head going “wtf is this”.
    374720FC-996E-4B71-92FD-352CD1EFEE69.jpeg
     
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    Yondering

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    I feel like most things with reloading, quality components and a Scientific approach pay off. This is common for a 5 shot group to start the day with my .223. This load has always been a hammer.
    It could be your rifle just doesn’t like that bullet. Try something else and validate your initial findings. It sucks testing in this climate of lack of components, but maybe a new ladder with a different bullet will help solidify your concerns or give answers.
    I feel your pain, nothing worse than looking at a target while scratching your head going “wtf is this”.
    View attachment 7604231
    Big +1 to all this. And given that the Tikkas are known to be hit or miss with that bullet, it makes sense to verify with a different bullet that it can actually shoot.
    But if it won’t shoot some other good loads well, then I’d suspect the optic as mentioned above.
     
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    Jdubya

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    I have the Tikka Varmint set up in an MPA chassis. Did not have the best luck with the 75's or any 77's. Went to the Berger 80.5's and Varget powder (25.0 grns), Lapua brass and Fed Small Rifle Match primers. Using MDT sleeved .223 mags with the longer OAL (CBTO 1.871). Works out to about 2780 FPS and .5 MOA
     

    Lightning8

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    I have a Tikka T3X Varmint 223. I dropped it into a KRG Bravo chassis and using MDT polymer 223 mags. My Tikka T3X Varmint 223 chamber would not accept any "long" 223 loads to take advantage of the ability to load long in the MDT mags. I had gunsmith open the chamber to accept 223 load to MDT mag length with 80ELDMs and SMKs. I am still working on load development but that specific Tikka 223 Varmint does not seem to prefer the 75 ELDM, 80 ELDM, or 80 SMKs. It seems to prefer 53 to 77 grain projectiles. Cannot prove but I think it is the 1-8 twist.

    I have a Savage 10 SA with a Shaw 26 inch 1-7 that loves the 80 ELDMs and 80 SMKs.
     
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    BuildingConceptsllc

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    Could someone ITT anyone give me a starting point for 223 load? I have a 21" barrel and I don't know anything about loading. A friend of mine is going to help me load up some ammo to find a speed that my gun likes but I really don't know where to even start with the load.

    I plan on using a 68 gr bullet if I can find it. I'm also going to try to buy some primers and power. My buddy has all of the stuff but doesn't normally load for 223 and I don't want to use his supply either so, if someone could point me in the right direction on these things to get a starting point, it would be a huge help.
     

    reubenski

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    Hornady 75gr BTHP's

    Varget, IMR 8208, N140, AA2520, Ramshot TAC, CFE223, IMR or H4895

    Start at 22gr 8208 and work up .3gr

    Any small rifle primer you could find at this point. Hope you don't have to drive far to get it too.

    I wouldn't be too picky about brass. Just stick to the same manufacturer. LC brass works very well but I bet Starline does as well.

    Seat the bullets at AR mag length. 2.350. that's about .100" jump in a Wylde chamber.
     

    BuildingConceptsllc

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    Hornady 75gr BTHP's

    Varget, IMR 8208, N140, AA2520, Ramshot TAC, CFE223, IMR or H4895

    Start at 22gr 8208 and work up .3gr

    Any small rifle primer you could find at this point. Hope you don't have to drive far to get it too.

    I wouldn't be too picky about brass. Just stick to the same manufacturer. LC brass works very well but I bet Starline does as well.

    Seat the bullets at AR mag length. 2.350. that's about .100" jump in a Wylde chamber.


    Wow! Thanks man! This is great! I do have a Wylde chamber, and my twist is 7.5

    Lucky for me, my buddy has a good bit of win small rifle primers
     
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    Mike_in_FL

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    Could someone ITT anyone give me a starting point for 223 load? I have a 21" barrel and I don't know anything about loading. A friend of mine is going to help me load up some ammo to find a speed that my gun likes but I really don't know where to even start with the load.

    I plan on using a 68 gr bullet if I can find it. I'm also going to try to buy some primers and power. My buddy has all of the stuff but doesn't normally load for 223 and I don't want to use his supply either so, if someone could point me in the right direction on these things to get a starting point, it would be a huge help.

    What about all these?

     

    ICU22250

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    Wow! Thanks man! This is great! I do have a Wylde chamber, and my twist is 7.5

    Lucky for me, my buddy has a good bit of win small rifle primers
    You had better be nice to this buddy willing to part ways with his reloading supply treasure trove right now. Right now is literally the worst time to start into reloading.. From an availability standpoint that is. You could search for months and never get lucky finding primers. Good luck
     

    BuildingConceptsllc

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    What about all these?



    What about them? I don't know which ones would be good starting point for me and the supplies are a lot harder to come by now. The list @reubenski gave me is all stuff that's somewhat available. There's a few there that are similar barrels to what I have but some of the loads seem kind of hot. I'd rather not waste my Supplies trying to start really low, and I want to use components that I can actually find again when I find a charge that works well. I did look through many old threads on this subject but due to the current climate and me not knowing which ones are more common vs which are hard or impossible to get, this seemed like a better approach.
     

    BuildingConceptsllc

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    You had better be nice to this buddy willing to part ways with his reloading supply treasure trove right now. Right now is literally the worst time to start into reloading.. From an availability standpoint that is. You could search for months and never get lucky finding primers. Good luck


    Yeah, he's a good dude for sure and I won't forget it. We look out for eachother and I'm trying to find a die for him as a thank you as well.
     

    Sheldon N

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    Here's my plan for additional data gathering:
    I have re-seated/re-torqued the rifle in the chassis, the rings on the base, and the scope in the rings for the varmint rifle.
    1) Using Federal gold medal ammo, shoot groups in the varmint rifle to verify I don't have any gross failures of the rifle or scope.
    2) Using brass from the same lot previously used (1x fired from an AR then full length resized), select 2 powder charges and load 10 rounds in each. 5 rounds of each powder charge will be shot from the varmint and 5 rounds from each in the CTR - compare groups to see if the rifles accomplish grossly the same thing with the same reloads.
    3) Using the brass from the previous test (will have been through my varmint rifle for fire forming), repeat the 30 shot test to see if my groups are different than the first time.
    4) Repeat step #2 but with 75gr BTHP vs ELD-M.

    Good plan.

    FWIW I run XBR and 75 ELD-M's at around 23gr of powder and don't find a need to run too much hotter than that. They are very accurate in my rifle at that charge weight range, sub 1/2 MOA. I have found the 75BTHP to group better in multiple barrels, but their BC is not as good so they don't hold together quite as well out at 700+ yards.

    On that soot ring on the middle of the case, that looks like the case is separating? Is it cracked? If so, double check your shoulder bump measurements to be sure you don't have excessive headspace with your sized brass. Use a shoulder comparator like the one from Hornady (0.330 for 223) and measure fired FGMM brass and compare that to your sized brass. The sized brass should be roughly 0.002-3 shorter.

    Final tip would be with regard to hunting for charge weight ranges... I usually cover a wider range with three rounds each rather than a ton of rounds at a single charge weight. In your shoes I'd probably load a charge weight range of 22.5 through 23.5gr in 0.2 grain increments, three shots each, with both bullets. You'll see whether it generally likes a charge weight range or bullet, and where it's worth exploring further with 5 shot groups to verify.
     

    drew_235

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    I'm sorry I haven't updated this thread with additional range results lately - I've been busy with a heavy work load but hope to get out in the next 10 days.
     

    drew_235

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    Good plan.

    FWIW I run XBR and 75 ELD-M's at around 23gr of powder and don't find a need to run too much hotter than that. They are very accurate in my rifle at that charge weight range, sub 1/2 MOA. I have found the 75BTHP to group better in multiple barrels, but their BC is not as good so they don't hold together quite as well out at 700+ yards.

    On that soot ring on the middle of the case, that looks like the case is separating? Is it cracked? If so, double check your shoulder bump measurements to be sure you don't have excessive headspace with your sized brass. Use a shoulder comparator like the one from Hornady (0.330 for 223) and measure fired FGMM brass and compare that to your sized brass. The sized brass should be roughly 0.002-3 shorter.

    Final tip would be with regard to hunting for charge weight ranges... I usually cover a wider range with three rounds each rather than a ton of rounds at a single charge weight. In your shoes I'd probably load a charge weight range of 22.5 through 23.5gr in 0.2 grain increments, three shots each, with both bullets. You'll see whether it generally likes a charge weight range or bullet, and where it's worth exploring further with 5 shot groups to verify.
    I have had a few cases crack on me with S&B 6.5CM brass, so I'm familiar with the look and finger tip feel of brass that is about to fail catastrophically, and this wasn't like that. There was no hairline crack, even under a magnifying glass. I do have a shoulder comparator and after a lot of measuring of brass, I'm right at .002" bump.
     

    Yondering

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    Could someone ITT anyone give me a starting point for 223 load? I have a 21" barrel and I don't know anything about loading. A friend of mine is going to help me load up some ammo to find a speed that my gun likes but I really don't know where to even start with the load.

    I plan on using a 68 gr bullet if I can find it. I'm also going to try to buy some primers and power. My buddy has all of the stuff but doesn't normally load for 223 and I don't want to use his supply either so, if someone could point me in the right direction on these things to get a starting point, it would be a huge help.

    Your first starting place should be a good load manual, preferably the one published by the manufacturer of the bullets you will use. Assuming though from your post that you don't have any printed manuals (although your buddy should?), you still have access to several good online resources. Hodgdon has a good online resource on their website, and Western Powders (Ramshot and Accurate) publishes their complete reloading guide for download as a .pdf on their site. Some Hornady data is available online, and they have a good mobile app that you can pay by the cartridge (I think $1.99). Sierra has a good app too although it's ~$20 something for the whole thing, but you can find Sierra's 223 data online as well with a google search.

    Since you're just starting, make sure to stick with the dimensions (like OAL, or Over All Length) and data in the manual and start with the "starting" loads. If you're trying to choose a powder, generally the top few powders in the manual that give the highest velocity for your bullet are the place to start; your starting loads will be slower and lower pressure but these give you the most room to work with in most cases.
     

    BuildingConceptsllc

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    Your first starting place should be a good load manual, preferably the one published by the manufacturer of the bullets you will use. Assuming though from your post that you don't have any printed manuals (although your buddy should?), you still have access to several good online resources. Hodgdon has a good online resource on their website, and Western Powders (Ramshot and Accurate) publishes their complete reloading guide for download as a .pdf on their site. Some Hornady data is available online, and they have a good mobile app that you can pay by the cartridge (I think $1.99). Sierra has a good app too although it's ~$20 something for the whole thing, but you can find Sierra's 223 data online as well with a google search.

    Since you're just starting, make sure to stick with the dimensions (like OAL, or Over All Length) and data in the manual and start with the "starting" loads. If you're trying to choose a powder, generally the top few powders in the manual that give the highest velocity for your bullet are the place to start; your starting loads will be slower and lower pressure but these give you the most room to work with in most cases.

    Yeah, my buddy does have manuals has been reloading for a while. He just doesn't load 223, and so it will be a lot faster getting a good starting point from someone who already knows, which is what I got. Now my buddy can show me how to do that correctly, and we can make several loads working up. It will be a whole lot faster and with supplies being so hard to get, I'd rather not waste a bunch "figuring out" what works, then finding the speed within that. I am going to read more about the 2 powders I was able to find though ect
     

    Yondering

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    Yeah, my buddy does have manuals has been reloading for a while. He just doesn't load 223, and so it will be a lot faster getting a good starting point from someone who already knows, which is what I got. Now my buddy can show me how to do that correctly, and we can make several loads working up. It will be a whole lot faster and with supplies being so hard to get, I'd rather not waste a bunch "figuring out" what works, then finding the speed within that. I am going to read more about the 2 powders I was able to find though ect

    You’ll need to start by identifying whatever bullets you can find available; that will determine the best powder choices. Don’t select a powder before the bullets.

    We can all tell you good loads for a certain bullet and powder, but as someone else pointed out this is a really bad time to get into reloading and our info doesn’t do any good if you can’t get those components.
     

    BuildingConceptsllc

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    You’ll need to start by identifying whatever bullets you can find available; that will determine the best powder choices. Don’t select a powder before the bullets.

    We can all tell you good loads for a certain bullet and powder, but as someone else pointed out this is a really bad time to get into reloading and our info doesn’t do any good if you can’t get those components.


    Yeah that's why I wanted to get a good starting point from someone that's loading now and knows what's more available and what isn't. From what I could tell, the 75gr BTHP bullets are more easily obtained and I got 2- 100's to start off with. Could only get 4 lbs total of powder though. Had to get 2 different ones from that list and they'd only sell 2 lbs per order. I. Actually had 2others in my cart that disappeared while I was looking and reading ect so I hurried up and got what I could. I know the two powders will be a little different but I guess I will just have to see which one works. Better and use the other for a 308 load or find a load that works with each powder.
     
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    Yondering

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    Yeah that's why I wanted to get a good starting point from someone that's loading now and knows what's more available and what isn't. From what I could tell, the 75gr BTHP bullets are more easily obtained and I got 1000 to start off with. Could only get 4 lbs total of powder though. Had to get 2 different ones from that list and they'd only sell 2 lbs per order. I. Actually had 2others in my cart that disappeared while I was looking and reading ect so I hurried up and got what I could. I know the two powders will be a little different but I guess I will just have to see which one works. Better and use the other for a 308 load or find a load that works with each powder.
    Ok, so you got some 75gr BTHP, those are good. What powders did you get? I didn’t see anywhere that you mentioned these details previously.

    You’ll get a lot better suggestions for a load if we know what you have.
     

    BuildingConceptsllc

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    Ok, so you got some 75gr BTHP, those are good. What powders did you get? I didn’t see anywhere that you mentioned these details previously.

    You’ll get a lot better suggestions for a load if we know what you have.

    Look after my first post ITT.

    I got. Accurate 2520

    I thought I got the 2 different ones but I didn't. That's all I got. The other I was going to get just so I had more than 2lbs disappeared before I could check out.

    I'm going to try to order another 2 - 1lb jug now
     

    BuildingConceptsllc

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    They are out of it now. I wanted to find one on that list that I could buy at least 8 lbs of but just couldn't find it