When I get mine back from the paint booth I am going back to try benchmark but with 450’s, drop down to a node where I can avoid the ejector ring and see if I can keep it a tight group.
- Thread starter Bergara 6mm
- Start date
I have built several PSA rifles for other people. They are a good value and reliable but none of them were great as far as accuracy goes. All I have experience with is 5.56 though.
I’ve built 7 rifles with psa Valkyrie barrel/upper parts. 4 for me and 3 for others. None did well with factory 88/90 ammo. Only factory ammo that shoots about moa is federal 75fmj which on a good day shoots about moa and on a bad day about 1.5-1.75moa. Reloads will get you closer to moa both 75gr eldm and 80gr eldm. I’ve also got some good results with 88eldm reloads but velocity wasn’t where I wanted and wouldn’t outperform the 80’s which I think ? is where the sweet spot will be. Btw I have 2 of the 1/7 and 2 of the 1/6.5’s and can’t really tell too much difference between them. At first I thought the 6.5 was shooting the 88’s better and it might be slightly better but once the correct oal is found both barrels will shoot the 88’s well but again I haven’t gotten the velocity with that bullet with good groups to make me switch. I still need to get some h4895 to try as I’ve only run cfe, w748 and tac. My psa 6.5 creedmoor barrel will shoot .5 moa with 140eldm. The Valkyrie is proving to be a tough nut to crack
Mine is the 6.5 twist. Only my first trip but the 75’s were decent - everything else was shotgun. Hope after I get more rounds thru it will tighten up. I am able get 1/2 moa consistently w 6.5 prc seekins havak bravo factory 147. - don’t expect that from a psa / my built lower but moa would make me happy
I also have a PSA Valkyrie barrel in 20" but I'm pretty sure my twist rate is 1:6.5 not 1:7. I will have to double check when I'm home. I've had great luck with it so far shooting 75g and 88g projectiles.
First thing I would try if it was me is remove the brake and see if the muzzle is clean, then shoot it bare muzzle and see what happens. I have had a muscle device in the past create uneven carbon build up, and that can screw your day all up.
First thing I would try if it was me is remove the brake and see if the muzzle is clean, then shoot it bare muzzle and see what happens. I have had a muscle device in the past create uneven carbon build up, and that can screw your day all up.
Shoot more of the factory federal 75 fmj and report back. Bet you get back to near moa again. Unless you are going >800 yards you will ring steel all day with those. Reloads obviously wi be better but with the psa barrel I see no need to go with other factory ammo
Well after about 150 rounds my groups are tightening up and I was able to hit steel out to 750 yards yesterday. So I’m feeling better about my budget 224 Valkyrie. Thanks for talking me off the ledge Randy. 90 grain was more effective past 500 yards.
Attachments
Nice!!! Yeah the PSA stuff I’d decent for the $$$. There is always better and if you get the itch you can always upgrade barrels later. Way I figured it, was their gear was good enough and I could upgrade if I got snakebit by the caliber.
I too run the vg6 brake; good stuff.
Trigger I run the Larue MBT.
good times though and keep it up. Reload and I think you’ll be happy enough.
I've had quite a journey on this issue, and have learned a ton. Here's a summary:
Weird ... eh? (I can't explain it either, nor can I explain why some on this thread shoot sub-MOA with the heavy stuff.)
I know it's easy to say ... "Buy a better barrel" ... but the Ballistic Advantage is "OK", and the WOA barrel was expensive and has a solid reputation
YMMV ... this was my journey.
- Built with a Pro2A upper (Ballistic Advantage 1:7 barrel)
- Lousy results with match-grade ammo
- Gave it to my son who doesn't care about "groups"
- Built with a White Oak Armament match-grade barrel (1:6.5)
- Shot with Hornady 88 and Federal 90
- Lousy results
- Shot with Hornady 75
- Better results
- Shot with Hornady 60gr Varmint ammo
- Shot sub-MOA all day long
- Tried the 60gr in my son's .224 that I gave up on
- Shot sub-MOA all day long
Weird ... eh? (I can't explain it either, nor can I explain why some on this thread shoot sub-MOA with the heavy stuff.)
I know it's easy to say ... "Buy a better barrel" ... but the Ballistic Advantage is "OK", and the WOA barrel was expensive and has a solid reputation
YMMV ... this was my journey.
Give the new Federal Gold Medal 80.5gr Berger load a try.
It's pricey ... but I need to find a heavier bullet that shoots tight groups if I ever want to use this rifle for the reason I built it. Just ordered a couple of boxes ... I'll give it a try.
It really sucks that your journey has been so tough with bad results. If my results had been nearly as bad as yours I would feel as discouraged as you are. As it is, mine has the three types of factory I tried all sub moa. They are; Federal 90g superformance, Hornady 88g Match, and Federal 75g American Eagle. I stopped there, since a main purpose for me to put together this AR was to have a fun accurate semi-long range shooter that I didn’t have to load for and could get affordable ammo for. It worked out for me.
I hope your luck gets better.
Pretty much sums up my experiences except my barrels were JP and Rainier ultramatch.
From all of the barrels I have tested the 75gr TMJ bullets shoot better out of chamber with the long out of spec freebore. Those barrels do not shoot the 80s, 88s, 90s or 95s very well.
The barrels that have the SAAMI spec chamber and freebore shoot the long bullets better but do not shoot the 75TMJs very well.
The barrels that have the SAAMI spec chamber and freebore shoot the long bullets better but do not shoot the 75TMJs very well.
Thanks. Interestingly and in parallel, I built a 6.5 Grendel using a Palmetto State Armory "bargain" barrel upper, and the damn thing is a tack-driver ... shot sub-MOA from the first magazine onward. Expected that from my .224 project, but as is sometimes the case ... life didn't meet my expectations.
It is all about the reamer/barrel combo.
I originally built a gun using a Ballistic Advantage barrel and no matter what I tried I could not get it below right around 1 MOA. For many that would have been fine, but I wanted more. I ordered a Craddock Rock Creek 1:6.7t and started to see groups consistantly around .8MOA but still wanted more.
I then had a "well I am a real dumb bastard" moment, I forgot that the modified case I was using to measure jump with the Hornady tool was a once fired case from the Ballistic Advantage barrel. I built a new modified case using a resized case and discovered that I was probably jamming bullets in the lands the whole time. Using my most accurate load from before (24.4 grs. H4895 with 80 gr. ELD-M) but now actually jumping .040" I shoot .5MOA with the gun and recently took first in the gas-gun division at a local PRS match with it.
I plan to build a Valkyrie bolt gun this year as well, love the cartridge for sub-1000 yd work and it is a laser under 600.
I originally built a gun using a Ballistic Advantage barrel and no matter what I tried I could not get it below right around 1 MOA. For many that would have been fine, but I wanted more. I ordered a Craddock Rock Creek 1:6.7t and started to see groups consistantly around .8MOA but still wanted more.
I then had a "well I am a real dumb bastard" moment, I forgot that the modified case I was using to measure jump with the Hornady tool was a once fired case from the Ballistic Advantage barrel. I built a new modified case using a resized case and discovered that I was probably jamming bullets in the lands the whole time. Using my most accurate load from before (24.4 grs. H4895 with 80 gr. ELD-M) but now actually jumping .040" I shoot .5MOA with the gun and recently took first in the gas-gun division at a local PRS match with it.
I plan to build a Valkyrie bolt gun this year as well, love the cartridge for sub-1000 yd work and it is a laser under 600.
Mine is also a rock creek 6.7 twist from Craddock.
Anyone running the Faxon barrel? I'm fairly happy with my PSA barrel/combos. However, the grass is always greener 
.
.Same bolt with both barrels? Wonder if a different bolt might lock up better on the extension lugs and provide better accuracy. Or I could be all wrong and you've tried diff bolts, or I'm just plain wrong. Just thinking out loud here
Anyone running the Faxon barrel? I'm fairly happy with my PSA barrel/combos. However, the grass is always greener
I just finished a 20" fluted match Faxon 1-6.5 build and hope it's on the right track. My 20" PSA 1-6.5 is back in their possession trying to figure out why it's a shotgun rather than a rifle!
Did an abbreviated break-in using AE 75gr and was seeing sub 1 moa. got a little copper during and after ( a little more) but I really need to shoot it some more before I can give a recommendation. Easy enough to hit steel at 400. Also fired a few 88 ELD's with about the same results. Workmanship and overall quality is quite nice on the Faxon. I'll report back when I have more solid info.
I've had two 224-V experiments. One with a Ballistic Advantage barrel, and one with a White Oak Armament barrel. I got lousy results with the BA barrel irrespective of ammo weight. The WOA barrel shoots "lights-out" (sub-MOA) with Hornady 60gr Varmint ammo ... and gets progressively less accurate the heavier the bullet. Although the Berger 80.5 Federal Premium was really pretty good too. Hornady 75 and 88, and Federal 90 all shot like crap. I've concluded that everything about 224-V's are just "picky" around ammo. I'm done trying to cajole this caliber into shooting well. I have several other rifles that shoot sub-MOA 100% of the time and with multiple ammo types.
I’m 2 for 2 with the Rainier Ultramatch barrels with 80 eld’s and h4895. Both are 24” +2’s. Both barrels have been sub moa with handloads, but the first barrel showed that the 1:7.5 twist wouldn’t properly stabilize the FGMM 90’s. I don’t recall shooting the AE75’s in them, but I’ll try and do that on future range trip.
I also have a 1:6.5t 22” WOA and just picked up a 24” +2 WOA, also a 1:6.5t. The 22” has been sub moa with FGMM 90’s and shot the 75tmj factory load very well. I’d say the 75tmj is closer to moa, but it has shot several groups that were sub half moa, and closer to 1/4moa. I need to find tune a load with it for the 80 eld’s, but I built it to run factory ammo without having to reload.
I have some FGMM 80.5’s on there way. I hope my luck with these barrels continues.
I also have a 1:6.5t 22” WOA and just picked up a 24” +2 WOA, also a 1:6.5t. The 22” has been sub moa with FGMM 90’s and shot the 75tmj factory load very well. I’d say the 75tmj is closer to moa, but it has shot several groups that were sub half moa, and closer to 1/4moa. I need to find tune a load with it for the 80 eld’s, but I built it to run factory ammo without having to reload.
I have some FGMM 80.5’s on there way. I hope my luck with these barrels continues.
Last edited:
I was told the lower twist rate helped stabilize the heavier bullets, so I got the WOA with a 6.5 twist. Reality was exactly the opposite, where the lower twist shot the lower weight (60gr) beautifully, and the higher weights were a bust. I just don't have this .224-V "thing" figured out yet. Everything else I own shoots sub-MOA all day long (6.5-Grendel, 6.5-Creedmoor, 300-WM, even my .223 and 300-BLK). I gave my Ballistic Advantage .224 to my son. I'll probably sell my White Oak Armament .224 ... I just don't have the time or patience for misbehaving calibers when I've got multiple straight-shooting alternatives.
Were the FGMM 90’s the new production, gold/black box, or the first lots produced? The WOA has done well out to 850yds for me with the new lots of FGMM 90’s.
it's the barrels and Chambers you are using not the twist rate,
the issues are not twist rate related, the sooner you realize this the better life will treat you.
Twist rates don't work for someone and not for others, the reason a lighter weight bullet works and the heavy doesn't is the chamber. It's cut wrong for the caliber. I bet both have the same incorrect reamer.
How does the Craddock barrels succeed with the same twists and the others fail, ask that question.
the issues are not twist rate related, the sooner you realize this the better life will treat you.
Twist rates don't work for someone and not for others, the reason a lighter weight bullet works and the heavy doesn't is the chamber. It's cut wrong for the caliber. I bet both have the same incorrect reamer.
How does the Craddock barrels succeed with the same twists and the others fail, ask that question.
Frank, I think the exception to that would be ppl trying to run the FGMM 90’s in an 18-20” 1:7t at low elevation, or in my case, the 90’s in a 1:7.5 (Rainier Ultramatch). The 1:7.5t resulted in oblong holes in the target. A 1:7 will work, but per Sierra, you need to be above 2650fps to properly stabilize the 90’s. I’m betting the 18” barrels are pushing 25xxfps. In Colorado you may could get away with it, but likely not in FL.
But I agree, the issue is more than likely the chamber/freebore, especially if you’re getting the proper velocity.
But I agree, the issue is more than likely the chamber/freebore, especially if you’re getting the proper velocity.
As far as PSAs, I had one, bad freebore, and shot like crap.
I parked it and had DTech build me one, it's shoots great.
I bought a bore scope, and ran it down the PSA barrel, after I quit shooting it. It had alot of chatter, and looked like the rifling tool was stopped and started several times.
My advise is shoot the crap out of the PSA, and never clean it. Maybe the copper can even out the barrel.
I parked it and had DTech build me one, it's shoots great.
I bought a bore scope, and ran it down the PSA barrel, after I quit shooting it. It had alot of chatter, and looked like the rifling tool was stopped and started several times.
My advise is shoot the crap out of the PSA, and never clean it. Maybe the copper can even out the barrel.
i don’t see why the 90s would be an issue, granted if they can’t push them fast enough you can run into an issue. But lets be real here if you are under 2650 why are you wasting time with 90s.
the heaviest bullet is not always the right answer. When the word was out originally the 90gr bullet was off I avoided them and shot the 88s. I shot them at the Guardian Comp the week they came out and didn’t even a fire 2 boxes before going to the match. I came in 12th.
I know Sierra redid them, both Frank Green discuss this on the podcast. That said I was given a case of the bad Federal 90s and in my GT barrel they work just as good as the 88s.
but my JP has not been picky at all. It stacks them with a 22” 1-7 , shot it again at the CD match and I missed 6 targets out of 60 and some were do to time, not accuracy.
I just don’t get the drama, well, I do, as it’s more about subpar barrels than caliber. When you get AR guys trying to push accuracy with subpar components, you will a big swing in results. The difference I see is the precision rifle guys focus on accuracy and that tends to show. A Craddock works, a WOA does not well in my opinion, that problem is with the choice. Number one is the barrel, start with a higher quality you get higher results.
ladtly I will say, is seeing what people do going from a 223 to a 308 variant in an AR platform is not as easy as it sounds. I think the 224 might be in the middle there so a shooters flaws will show, just like with a 308.
the heaviest bullet is not always the right answer. When the word was out originally the 90gr bullet was off I avoided them and shot the 88s. I shot them at the Guardian Comp the week they came out and didn’t even a fire 2 boxes before going to the match. I came in 12th.
I know Sierra redid them, both Frank Green discuss this on the podcast. That said I was given a case of the bad Federal 90s and in my GT barrel they work just as good as the 88s.
but my JP has not been picky at all. It stacks them with a 22” 1-7 , shot it again at the CD match and I missed 6 targets out of 60 and some were do to time, not accuracy.
I just don’t get the drama, well, I do, as it’s more about subpar barrels than caliber. When you get AR guys trying to push accuracy with subpar components, you will a big swing in results. The difference I see is the precision rifle guys focus on accuracy and that tends to show. A Craddock works, a WOA does not well in my opinion, that problem is with the choice. Number one is the barrel, start with a higher quality you get higher results.
ladtly I will say, is seeing what people do going from a 223 to a 308 variant in an AR platform is not as easy as it sounds. I think the 224 might be in the middle there so a shooters flaws will show, just like with a 308.
I get that ... sort of. But it doesn't explain why the same shooter, that hits sub-MOA at 100 yards with multiple bullet weights from a 6.5-Grendel and 6.5-Creedmoor ... shoots badly at 100 yards with a .224-Valkyrie using two different barrel uppers (BA-7.5 and WOA-6.5), and multiple bullet weights, shooting MOA-ish "only" with 60-gr bullets and 3-MOA with 75's, 80's, 88's, and 90's.
I built the rifles to shoot targets and fun competitions out to 1,000 yards. The light bullets are great at 100-yards, and out to 500 ... but not great out beyond that. I've been unsuccessful getting the accuracy I need at longer distances out of the heavier bullets in .224-Valkyrie.
I have PSA 6.5-Grendel build that was cheap, and shoots lights-out to 800+ yards. I have 6.5-Creedmoor's from LWRCI (MKII REPR), Tikka (T3X), and Barrett (MRAD) that are awesome well past that.
I hesitate to invest any more time or money into solving this problem ... as I'm probably $2,000+ into it at this point (rifles, barrels, ammo). I could get a more expensive barrel/upper and try again. I could keep trying different ammo brands and weights.
But I don't really have a good answer to the question "Why?". Building a .224 was an experiment for me. Some experiments just don't work. I'm kind of at that point now. I'm glad others have had better luck with their .224-Valkyrie experiments.
BTW ... my bullet velocities are:
- Hornady Varmint 60gr ... 3,268 (most accurate)
- Federal Berger 80.5gr ... 2,888 (pretty accurate)
- Hornady Black 75gr ... 2,912 (not bad - not great)
- Hornady ELDM 88gr ... 2.413 (least accurate)
- Federal SMK 90gr ... 2,817 (just so-so)
It is interesting that accuracy in the Valkyrie goes from top notch to bottom of the barrel. Federal admitted they had a problem with the original 90gr so that should throw it out the window as far as accuracy benchmarking with the older ammo. As far a I know it is a very well known problem in the world of ARs that when you buy components and compile them yourself you are practically buying a lottery ticket. Unless you are somebody who is very knowledgeable and with lots of experience the intricacies can eat you alive. Not to mention shooting the AR platform is known to behave differently and requires more and different technique than bolt guns.
Knowing all the factors affecting accuracy, how can you complain that your $300 upper doesn't shoot like a $3k+ custom AR? There are reputable builders out there that will guarantee what you are looking for. None of them for cheap.
Knowing all the factors affecting accuracy, how can you complain that your $300 upper doesn't shoot like a $3k+ custom AR? There are reputable builders out there that will guarantee what you are looking for. None of them for cheap.
Mixing parts with the large frames is more challenging, but the AR-15 isn’t nearly that difficult.
Cobbled together AR, second range trip trying out some 80 eld’s and Berger 85.5’s w/ H4895.
The 4 groups of 80’s were with FC 1x brass for 3 groups, and the upper left group was virgin starline. All groups had the same BTO measurement but different charges.
Berger 85.5’s, same charge weight, but varying seating depth. POI shift of the main group was due to zeroing for the 80’s between strings.
The 4 groups of 80’s were with FC 1x brass for 3 groups, and the upper left group was virgin starline. All groups had the same BTO measurement but different charges.
Berger 85.5’s, same charge weight, but varying seating depth. POI shift of the main group was due to zeroing for the 80’s between strings.
Spent another day at the range comparing different ammunition through my White Oak Armament 24" 6.5-twist .224-V barrel. Results were the same as last time:
My quest for .224 truth marches onward.
Buying the lower-twist barrel to stabilize the heavier bullets ... appears to be the opposite of what I was expecting ... at least "for me" and on "this gun". I know - I know ... the usual suspects will say "... spend more money - buy a better barrel ..." but I feel like $800 "should" be enough to get a quality upper in .224. But that's just me.
- Hornady Varmint 60gr ... super accurate - consistent sub-MOA - 5 shot groups almost in the same hole
- Federal Berger 80.5gr ... not bad - 1.5 MOA-ish
- Hornady Black 75gr ... just OK - 2+ MOA-ish
- Hornady ELDM 88gr ... awful - 3 MOA with a flyer in every group
- Federal SMK 90gr ... same - just lousy - best group was 3+ MOA
My quest for .224 truth marches onward.
Buying the lower-twist barrel to stabilize the heavier bullets ... appears to be the opposite of what I was expecting ... at least "for me" and on "this gun". I know - I know ... the usual suspects will say "... spend more money - buy a better barrel ..." but I feel like $800 "should" be enough to get a quality upper in .224. But that's just me.
I think I'd call WOA and see what they say about your results. It might not make any sense in paying for another barrel but getting this one replaced might make you happier.
Yeah ... been pondering that. Heading to the range Friday for a long distance (1,000 yard) test with the 60gr ammo. If it does well, then I'll declare victory and simply standardize on that ammo. If it doesn't, I'll call and whine a bit, and see what they say.
I have that same barrel, but haven’t built it yet but my 22” WOA is easily sub moa with the new FGMM 90’s.
Do you have pictures of your groups?
Similar threads
