hopefully Sig hurries up and gets those LT uppers out to public sale, my MCXs have never let me down yet, so it'll be nice to have that option
22arc versus 6 arc
- Thread starter BurtG
- Start date
I have not met with Sig but I do know the intent. In general the military feels like they have eked out as much performance from the 5.56 round as they possibly can. Moving to something like 6 ARC improves the small frame gas platform in every way.
18” barrel for a mod 0 build, 6arc or 22arc going to get used to kill coyotes at night on the east coast?
22 since you're shooting moving targets. You want the faster projectiles to get there before they've had a chance to move too much!
6mm ARC for night hunting and east coast, better anchoring and terminal performance for this endeavor.
Look up the video "60 coyotes down, 6mm ARC", where factory 108 gr eldm ammo out to 700 yds, and shows excellent performance on running shots.
I used a 25-06 mostly and a 222 once back in the day for my personal use.
Coyotes have been shot with most any caliber or shotgun readily available.
For trappers a 22 LR or a farmers pitch fork work well.
Here I'd choose the 6mm ARC.
I realize this is an older post yet I looked at this very question of 22 ARC versus 6 ARC
If you look at Hornady‘s newest bullet
ELD-VT
According to the 6 mm or 22 they are almost identical even energy on target are very similar according to their website
This is with FACTORY AMMO… Velocities in the real world hand loads -have not personally loaded this bullet up yet but my rifle will be mainly used for varmints and target and steel. That’s where the ELDEVT seems to fit.
300 yrd energy=. 998 for 6arc. 912 for 22-arc
Energy on target is almost identical with this bullet velocity about 150 to 200 FPS difference
Bullet drop is going to be a little bit more with the 6 mm. Have not looked at the V-max bullets to compare.
Obviously, there’s so many different variables if you roll your own
If you’re looking for just pure drop correction 22 ARC will be your huckleberry..
Pictures below first picture is 6 arc the second pict. 22ARC
The bullets for both the 6 mm and 22 are ELDVT in the pictures below
I have plenty of cases that you don’t have to mess with in the 6 mm ARC….. i’m sure someone will say there’s nothing to it. Just put it through a full length sizer and you turn your 6 mm into a 22 ARC… in my experience it’s never that simple and knocking down a neck can introduce thickness variances and I don’t want to neck turn 1000 cases right now perhaps if I had a $800 neck Turner I would feel different.
The 22ARC Will not be for me, yet it is still a great cartridge
If you look at Hornady‘s newest bullet
ELD-VT
According to the 6 mm or 22 they are almost identical even energy on target are very similar according to their website
This is with FACTORY AMMO… Velocities in the real world hand loads -have not personally loaded this bullet up yet but my rifle will be mainly used for varmints and target and steel. That’s where the ELDEVT seems to fit.
300 yrd energy=. 998 for 6arc. 912 for 22-arc
Energy on target is almost identical with this bullet velocity about 150 to 200 FPS difference
Bullet drop is going to be a little bit more with the 6 mm. Have not looked at the V-max bullets to compare.
Obviously, there’s so many different variables if you roll your own
If you’re looking for just pure drop correction 22 ARC will be your huckleberry..
Pictures below first picture is 6 arc the second pict. 22ARC
The bullets for both the 6 mm and 22 are ELDVT in the pictures below
I have plenty of cases that you don’t have to mess with in the 6 mm ARC….. i’m sure someone will say there’s nothing to it. Just put it through a full length sizer and you turn your 6 mm into a 22 ARC… in my experience it’s never that simple and knocking down a neck can introduce thickness variances and I don’t want to neck turn 1000 cases right now perhaps if I had a $800 neck Turner I would feel different.
The 22ARC Will not be for me, yet it is still a great cartridge
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if most people can’t tell the difference between 200 FPS and 100 FPS on their computer screenwhile playing counterstrike, I doubt you’ll be able to tell the difference between 200 FPS when shooting at a moving target…. that would be something that would have to be thought out mathematically.
How much lead hold -on a moving target at 100 yards between 200fps? is the lead the same what does 200 FPS make? Perhaps I’ll make a remote control base that allows target to be attached and see what the hit percentages would be in real life…that be pretty cool.
Even if out of 500 yards the difference will still be 200 FPS with the example I posted..
Mother nature is a real bitch and I don’t like putting an animal through anymore discomfort or hardship than necessary. They’ve got a hard enough life the way it is. God created all animals and I try go respect his creation at all cost.
That 100 & 200fps could make the difference between fragmentation and just penciling through.
at 300 yards. The difference in FPS between 6arc and 22ARC ..= 215ft./s
this is with factory loads. Obviously, when you roll your own, there’s many other factors that could make the the same
2,574fps@300yrds = time to target /bullet fight. = 0.35 sec. With the 22ARC
2,359fps@300yrds = time to target /bullet flight = 0.38 secs. With the 6ARC
Will 0.03 secs cause you to miss a moving target @300yrds?
this using it online calculator app, assuming it is correct
this is with factory loads. Obviously, when you roll your own, there’s many other factors that could make the the same
2,574fps@300yrds = time to target /bullet fight. = 0.35 sec. With the 22ARC
2,359fps@300yrds = time to target /bullet flight = 0.38 secs. With the 6ARC
Will 0.03 secs cause you to miss a moving target @300yrds?
this using it online calculator app, assuming it is correct
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Calculating lead on moving targets - Gun Nuts Media
One of the most challenging stages of the Bianchi Cup for newcomers to the sport is the Mover – I wrote about the Mover extensively last year in my run up to the match. One of the biggest concerns people have about the mover is “how much” is enough lead at what distances. Thankfully, all...
www.gunnuts.net
This is an interesting write up about holding lead time on targets. It is a lot slower moving bullet, I believe in 9 mm.
The issue is to get the 62 ELD VT to shoot with any sort of acceptable accuracy. For me it was a total bust in 22 arc. Also Big Reds load data is true to form, HOT.
I settled on 85.5 hybrids a h4350 fwiw.
personally, if I an that close to the edge , I would not take the shot with any caliber.
Statistics =would not be a self defense situation. I would not be taking a 900yard shot??
I would want more than 200fps between solid bullet and expanding bullet performance in a hunting situation.
Bummer.. I have not had a chance to load any of those up in the six arc and I have not put them in the 22 Creedmoor…
interesting you can use 4350 powder speed
I had not looked powder choices, but makes sense that as it is an overbore caliber.
TMK should be awesome in 22arc. They are the deadliest bullet I’ve used in 223 by a long shot and I’ve shot a few things
I don't understand why Sig hasn't done guns or uppers in Grendel and Arc on the commercial side. Seems like a no brainer. You can find 7.62x39's everywhere on sale but none of the cool kid stuff.
The 7.62x39 was one of the original request from the military. They deploy with them and shoot the same ammo as the locals.
I understand why they were requested I just don't understand why we still see so many commercially and no barrels/kits for Grendel and Arc.
I guess. They basically have everything in house to make an Arc or Grendel barrel.
Been revisiting this as I sit on my 22 arc MOD 0 barrel while my buddy is also doing a mod 0 in 6mm arc. I partially went 22 because i have an existing AEM5. Turns out you can give them a call they make a 6mm AEM5 for order.
Looking at the landscape 6mm arc seems to be really coming around with ammo selection comparatively. AAC is also sure to start production due to the simple fact they're offering rifles in it. So there will be a litany of choices for 6mm arc. 22 arc right now hasn't really seemed to have made any waves. I figured it would really catch on in the predator hunting world because supporting near 22-250 ballistics in a small frame AR is something I've always dreamed of. Obviously a lot of us load but I hate loading for semis. Don't want to chase brass and have no desire to hang a sac off my gun.
Looking at the landscape 6mm arc seems to be really coming around with ammo selection comparatively. AAC is also sure to start production due to the simple fact they're offering rifles in it. So there will be a litany of choices for 6mm arc. 22 arc right now hasn't really seemed to have made any waves. I figured it would really catch on in the predator hunting world because supporting near 22-250 ballistics in a small frame AR is something I've always dreamed of. Obviously a lot of us load but I hate loading for semis. Don't want to chase brass and have no desire to hang a sac off my gun.
yes predator hunting at night even during the day if your rapid follow up shots even with the bolt action, you might lose your cases doesn’t take much grass to cover things up quickly.
$.60 a case. (Have/ take a few cents) whether it’s a 6.5 cm, 6mm cm or 22 Creedmoor that you’ve sized down, Or a 6ARC they’re all about between 0.60$ and $.65 apiece for a case.
Comparatively if you bought a 556 which is around $.22 per case
(these are Starline brass prices though, not a high-end from Alpha or Peterson or any of the other ones)
If I was going after some predators than I probably wouldn’t worry too much about losing a few cases, I wouldn’t take that many shots but if you went after wild hogs, that would be a totally different situation.
Especially if you’re in a vehicle, helicopter, ect..high volume, that would be more of a what’s the cheapest ammo I could find.
I don’t think I would take 1000 rounds of starline brass in 6 ARC, and just unload and have the cases flying out the window or the side or wherever else… I would have a little bit of an issue with that personally I wouldn’t be able to afford it.
$.60 a case. (Have/ take a few cents) whether it’s a 6.5 cm, 6mm cm or 22 Creedmoor that you’ve sized down, Or a 6ARC they’re all about between 0.60$ and $.65 apiece for a case.
Comparatively if you bought a 556 which is around $.22 per case
(these are Starline brass prices though, not a high-end from Alpha or Peterson or any of the other ones)
If I was going after some predators than I probably wouldn’t worry too much about losing a few cases, I wouldn’t take that many shots but if you went after wild hogs, that would be a totally different situation.
Especially if you’re in a vehicle, helicopter, ect..high volume, that would be more of a what’s the cheapest ammo I could find.
I don’t think I would take 1000 rounds of starline brass in 6 ARC, and just unload and have the cases flying out the window or the side or wherever else… I would have a little bit of an issue with that personally I wouldn’t be able to afford it.
I have quite a few of the 6 mm 87 grn Vmax pills… quite frankly none of the issues I’ve had. I think we’re not bullet related. They were related to the barrel…have to see what happens.
The Craddock barrel I have was sent back due to excess headspace.. it is now fixed, but the brass obviously grew more than they should’ve. I was able to aneal them and set the shoulder back , I then produced a false shoulder (this prevents the ejector from shoving the case, too far forward and expanding in the wrong place when setting the shoulder back to zero/factory shoulder)
It was only about 150 cases so not the end of the world if they’re destroyed, we’ll see if it shoots any better this time and then I’ll shoot some new cases and see if this barrel can actually shoot. It has not done as well so far.
The other issues with the six arc and the 22 arc is to get the magazines to feed reliably. I had really good luck by taking out coils in a metal double stack magazine so that it didn’t push up so hard and was more like a bolt action magazine. The only downside was the spring doesn’t push the follow up hard enough to keep the last round bolt hold up feature.
Not the end of the world is it’s just like shooting a MP five and the other ones that don’t have this feature… this is not a combat gun anyway so who gives a shit..
I am just happy to be able to go out and walk around and get out in the fresh air and hunt and have the freedom to do so..all other “I got the fastest FPS” and “The” perfect round and “perfect” barrel in the “perfect”gun and all that shit doesn’t REALLY matter…
I’m told that flying brass in a chartered pig hunting helo is a safety hazard and a no go. Everyone hunts with a brass catcher.
But, given the hourly rate for a helicopter hog hunt, lost brass I pennies in the grand scheme of things.
