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Range Report .260 round and competition.

Re: .260 round and competition.

You know I have to commend eveyone here as this has been one of the most informative and well mannered threads we have had in a while. I too have been bitten by the 260 bug. I have a pss in 308 with too much history to rebarrel and I have a 7mmwsm I was going to turn into a match gun, so unless Remington comes out with a factory 260 it will be a while for me before I get one
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

The 260 is a great long distance round without the recoil. I don't feel I'am giving anything up to the 300WM. I will shoot my 260 all day without a break. How about you shoot your 300WM all day without a break.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Dar,

My 300WM without the brake was not that bad. It was much better with the brake on, of course. The TRG is about 14 lbs, so that helps. You would definitly know you had been shooting that day and be a little sore after 80 or so rounds od 300WM. But the 260 you can shoot all you want, and never even feel like you shot anything. I'll shoot either, but you piss fewer people off next to you with a 260!
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How about you shoot your 300WM all day without a break.</div></div>

I have and shot it in 2 day sniper comps and never had any problems or sore shoulders. If the rifle and shooter are set up right then it isn't that bad. My 300 weighed about 16.5lbs and didn't have a break.

That said out to 1000 on paper and steel the power of the 300WM isn't really needed and the 6.5s do just fine.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

The 300WM is an excellent round. But the 260 is up there with it. Why shoot something that has more recoil and blast. When there is a choice.
I had a 300WM and it shot great. I would not shoot it as much as I do my 260.
Remmington did drop the ball with the 260. Even today they should start making more of these in production and making match ammo. I think the 260 will become more in demand. If this is the case. They need to pick the ball up and run with it. Black Hills is making some ammo. Lets see if Remmington will.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Black Hills was making some with the 139 for GAP but not anymore according to George in a post on here not long ago. That is going to make it tougher for the .260 shooters especially with primers being in such short demand making reloading tougher.

Hornady is doing what Rem didn't do with the .260 with their 6.5 Creedmoor. Offering matchgrade factory ammo.

The .260 is close to the 300WM but if you wanted a short action that is closer with little recoil then the .243 with the 115 DTACs would be it. Mine shot about 24.5 MOA to 1000 and I wasn't even pushing it.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

If you need 260 ammo, I can load whatever bullet you'd like- 142 SMK, 140 A-max, 139 Scenar, 140 VLD.

I will add, that the 300WM has a huge energy advantage. When you hit something with it, you know it. I also hunted/hunt with my TRG, and it will anchor game as far as you can shoot it accuratly.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

I love my .260 out to 1000 and a little beyond, but there is no comparing it to a .300 win with a 210 vld or 208 amax. Even on the worst days you can bang steel at 1300 yds.

A real comparison is the 243, as long as you don't mind the barrel changes.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

The 300WM is an excellent performer. It has been at the top for alot of years. Long range shots with a punch (great gun). My 300 was light and had a heavy recoil. There is slight advantages over the 260 but not by much.
Rob1 you are not probaly your average shooter and most of the people here probaly isn't either. The best gun to buy used is a 300WM. Most people buy one for an elk hunt and shoot it 3 to 10 times and says Damm. A year later you can pick you a nice Rem. for a decent price.
That being said, If they were to buy a 260. They would shoot it 10 times and say Damm I like it.
On a heavier gun you do help with recoil but is a bitch to pack. My 260 wieghs in about 18pds dress. I would not like to pack it all day.
I think If I didn't care about more recoil. I will build a 338 Lapua. Then take all the advantages of the distance it could shoot.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

I'm a firm believer in leaving others to make their own decisions, and supportive of folks who choose to make those choices on an informed basis. I like to think of the .260 as the 'Thinking man's .308 (or even .30-'06)'. Better ballistics from a similar package and cost.

In fact, aside from the energies involved, the .260 and the .30-'06 shoot rather similar in my estimation, and I am a big fan of both chamberings.

Greg
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

I've only had my 260 for about 5 months. I shot a 243 and 308. I like the 260. It is probaly one of my favorites.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

from what I have read, the biggest difference where the 308 shines is the energy it transfers after 600yds. the 260 is great to punch paper, but if i were shooting game or waging war at 600yds id rather have my 175smk's

dont get me wrong the 260 shoots flat , with little wid drift, but loses energy before the 308 will. compare fpe and you will see
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobb_50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from what I have read, the biggest difference where the 308 shines is the energy it transfers after 600yds. the 260 is great to punch paper, but if i were shooting game or waging war at 600yds id rather have my 175smk's </div></div>

.308 w/175 SMK's @ 2700 fps @ 1k = 692 ft Lbs & 35.25 moa for the trip

.260 w/130 VLD's @ 2925 fps @ 1k = 724 ft Lbs & 25.25 moa for the trip

The .260 will hit harder and fly flatter to 1k, whats not to like. There's better calibers to shoot than the .308 Be it war, comps, paper or steel I'll take my .260
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Guys, I'm kind of disappointed here cause I'm building a 7-08...already have the barrel and everything. There have been a lot of comparisons of the 260 to the 308 but how does a 7-08 size up in the mix with a 260 sized bullet?

...or should I just cancel the project? LOL
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how does a 7-08 size up in the mix with a 260 sized bullet?

...or should I just cancel the project? LOL </div></div>

Loaded with 162/168's, it's a tuff round. At 2,750fps and a 5mph wind it's around 30 moa to 1k and has about 32" of drift, close to my .260 with 130 VLD's at 2,925 fps. Whos building your 7-08?
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Thanks - the 260 looks to be a very efficient round. I went with the 7mm version because I like the caliber.

Haven't chosen a smith yet.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Criver here on the Hide shoots a 7-08 as well. He probably has some good info. I've been looking at building one for myself lately.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Personally, I think you'll do great with the 7-08.

Considering the .308 parent case capacity, I think the .243 comes across a bit too much overbore for best efficiency, and the .308 is about the same thing in the other direction.

I think the .260 and 7-08 probably run about neck and neck in the efficency department, and when I considered the bullet selections (remember this was in 2001-2002) and basic energies involved; I decided the lesser mass of the .260's rounds gave it the edge, recoil-wise.

I consider recoil and terminal energy to simply be different manafestations of the same thing; but driving a given mass with a given energy encased in a higher sectional density gives it a penetration advantage, whether it's penetrating air, venison, glazing, or body armor.

Greg
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

mdesign,
If you have a long action put the barrel on it. Then make a 280 or a straight 284. Both of these are excellent long range rounds and are easy on barrels.

There is a tad more recoil with these but not bad. Would be more like shooting the 308s but with great bullet selection an good barrel life.

Your 7mm-08 is a very nice long range round too. I just don't feel they have the poop to push the heavier bullets to where you get a good advantage of the great BCs of the 7MMs. Thats just "MY" opinion an you know what they say about opinions!!

If your not a reloader I would go with a 6.5 Credmore they are a near ballistic twin to the 260s and Hornady did it right with a better case design an factory loaded match ammo. I like the 30 degree shoulder on the credmore I think it helps with throat errosion over the 243s and 260s but once again thats just my opinion.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I always believed the wind to have the same effect on bullets of the same sectional density. The BC (which is governed by the SD but also by the shape of the bullet) simply allowed the bullet to not lose speed as quickly as a bullet with a lesser BC value. The consequence of this is that a higher BC bullet would retain more of its initial velocity longer and since velocity has a time factor, the faster the bullet goes the less time it is in flight. The less time the bullet spends in the wind, the less the wind can deflect it. So I always thought that it was not so much that a high BC bullet slips through the wind undisturbed, but rather that it's simply not in the wind long enough to be disturbed.</div></div>

To my understanding, and I'm not a ballistician, this is wrong. The amount of wind drift isn't just affected by the time of flight, but also by the BC of the bullet. IIRC, the amount of wind drift is calculated by the difference between flight time in a vacuum and actual flight time- how much the bullet has been slowed down by the air. So, a higher BC bullet can have less wind drift than a lower BC bullet, even if it has a longer flight time.

To illustrate, I just ran two bullets through through JBM software and played with the velocities until they had identical flight times. In .308, a 168 SMK at 2711 fps and a 190 SMK at 2500 fps both had a flight time of 1.768 seconds at 1000 yards with the default environmental conditions. The 168 SMK had 11.2 MOA of wind drift, the 190 had 9.6. Same flight time and caliber, but different wind drift.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

The 308 is an excellent round but the 260 will have more punch when it comes to long range.

308 175SMKs at 2700 1k 1287fps energy 643 34.8 MOA

260 139 lapuas at 2800 1k 1572fps energy 762 28 MOA


300 190SMKs at 3050 1k 1579fps energy 1052 25 MOA

I like the 260 because of the less recoil, brass cheaper, every cartridge has its place. The 260 fits my needs.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

im down with 260 , but the chart i read said otherwise.

conclusion is you really cant trust everything you read on the internet.

maybe I misunderstood the chart, someone double check me.

here is the link 260 chart
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

What is with everyone comparing .260 Lapua, Berger, Senars against .308 168 Sierra's, what about 155's+2680 at least or Berger VS Berger
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobb_50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im down with 260 , but the chart i read said otherwise.

conclusion is you really cant trust everything you read on the internet.

maybe I misunderstood the chart, someone double check me.

here is the link 260 chart </div></div>

That chart is way off. Extremely slow on every bullet.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<span style="font-style: italic">VERY</span> slow on all the bullets.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....That chart is way off. Extremely slow on every bullet.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red_SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">VERY</span> slow on all the bullets. </div></div>
Yup. They look like starting loads.

I'm using H4350 and get 2,850 with 139 Scenars, and 2,950 with 130 Normas from a 26" Broughton.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobb_50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the fastest you can push one accurately? </div></div>
Push what, the .260? I've seen several people report accurate results from 139s and 142 SMKs to 2,900, but my rifle would never tolerate this.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

I'm pushing 142SMK's at 2850, not quite at max, and I've read more than once on this forum where folks are competing with loads that drive them to 2900. My barrel's 28" 1:8", and I'm hopefully loading it conservatively enough to conserve throat life.

For my first 1000yd comp, my load used 139 Scenars in a 24" barrel and made 2900fps, but also blew a lot of primers when the heat went into the 90's.

Others (Team Ghost Dancer members) with identical barrels used the same load without primer failure. We used a gerneric handload that was developed in another (nominally identical) rifle by a teammate. My own testing determined there was a pressure problem, I reduced my load by a full grain, and the resulting load still blew those primers in comp. This should serve as a clear lesson that loads that perform 'safely' in one rifle are not necessarily safe in another. The rifles in question were factory stock barreled actions with consecutive serial numbers.

Greg
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

In the 260 you should range around 2800 to 2900 with a 139 to 142 bullet. The twist rate and length of barrel will have some to do with these factors. One 260 shooting 24" barrel 1/8 twist safe load for that shoot 2797avg. The other 26" barrel 1/8.5 twist safe load for that is 2848. I can bump up the speed of the bullet but pressure and accuracy was my main goal.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

I am shooting the 123 Lapuas at 2975+ out of my Kreiger 23" barrel with my 260 and it takes 26 to 27 MOA to be on at 1000yds. The data for this load an the old data for my 6.5x284 shooting 140AMAXs is really close.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Chad,
What barrel an twist do you have?? What is your load with the 130s?? I just had a 1-8.5 Bartlein put on an having a hard time trying to find something it likes. Thanks!!
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: raptor99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad,
What barrel an twist do you have?? What is your load with the 130s?? I just had a 1-8.5 Bartlein put on an having a hard time trying to find something it likes. Thanks!! </div></div>

I am going to have a new barrel made on Monday and am fumbling between a 308 and a 260 .I run a 28" tube shooting 260AI currently and will do so in the summer still for F class but also want a barrel between 18-22 inches with a AUJet can to sit permanently on the end for a bit of fun shooting steel targets around the farm where I shoot. I do shoot to 1k and would still like to reach out with this barrel also . I am a little barrel wear conscious but is a hot 308 load any better than a less hot 260 load for barrel wear. My barrel maker wants to do a 1-8.5 twist for me for a 260 --I was intending to use 139g scenars for 260 or 155g scenars for 308 .good twist or not ? barrel wear 6 of 1 half dozen of other ?
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Right now, if barrel wear is your grail, I really don't see a lot of difference, as getting good LR performance out of the .308 will probably require more aggressive loading than with the .260. I see the .308 as nearing marginall at 1Kyd, and can reach the same place with a lot less strenuous load in the .260, especially with barrel lengths in excess of 28". The reasoning behind longer barrels (for me, anyway) is not to achieve stellar performance, but rather, to achieve respectable performance without going all out and warming up the fuses in the process. IMHO, Blowing the primers is analogous to blowing the fuses.

In this environment, the availability of components and loaded ammo takes some precendence. Contrasting .260 with .308, at least it's less likely that heavy Military and LE demands will affect .260 in the same way as they might affect the .308. Maybe that's a significant and worthy difference.

Greg
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Good thread guys,

I dont have any 6.5 bores.....but you got me thinking!
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

I can feel another 260 joining the family.Of barrel twist 8 or 8.5 for 139g scenar, is this just a matter of some barrles work good some dont with either twist or is the science more precise
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Has anyone tried sizing up .243 Lapua brass or down Lapua .308 brass to .260 rem....worth the effort or not?
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: raptor99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am shooting the 123 Lapuas at 2975+ out of my Kreiger 23" barrel with my 260 and it takes 26 to 27 MOA to be on at 1000yds. The data for this load an the old data for my 6.5x284 shooting 140AMAXs is really close.</div></div>

I tried some .260 Corbon 123 out of my DPMS and it was in the 2900's also, and a gas gun to boot.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone tried sizing up .243 Lapua brass or down Lapua .308 brass to .260 rem....worth the effort or not? </div></div>

Not worth it...RP shoots just fine.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Whislt the Remmy brass shoots ok if you give it any extra pressure its bowels open up and start dumping some of the primers in the ammo box or mag after 4-5 shots-- my experience right now .Lapua is worth resizing for longevity and strength of case
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

The issue with Rem brass and primer pockets is pretty similar to what happens with Federal brass. It's caused by stouter loads.

This is yet another reason why I favor a longer barrel. It permits comparable velocities using lighter loads. Easier on the brass, easier on the throat.

I would use Rem brass (or Lapua), but Winchester is the brand that's in stock at my local supplier. Win .243 (or 7-08) works great when resized.

Greg
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Straight .260 when not shooting .308Win.

I traded the Ackley speed back for a 100% smooth running standard .260 Rem. The Ackley trades everything having to do with smooth feeding and extraction for a small velocity gain. The standard .260 will give me a smooth running rifle even when the temp, dirt, bugs and grass are out of control.

If I was hunting, varminting or F-Classing, I might still use the Ackley.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Rem Brass will shoot just fine. I'am on my 11th reload on that brass. My son just took 1st in the F-Class at 600 with 785 26X at 600yds. On the 2nd string shot a 199 15X. The brass will shoot and is cheaper.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Straight .260 when not shooting .308Win.

I traded the Ackley speed back for a 100% smooth running standard .260 Rem. The Ackley trades everything having to do with smooth feeding and extraction for a small velocity gain. The standard .260 will give me a smooth running rifle even when the temp, dirt, bugs and grass are out of control.

If I was hunting, varminting or F-Classing, I might still use the Ackley. </div></div>

Good stuff. I'm lookin into a .260 for my next build. Or one of you Sentinel's in .260.
grin.gif
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Okay, I would like to add this to the discussion, I don't believe it will be hijacking.

How will a gas gun affect the .260's performance compared to a boltgun. I am stuck between .260 and .308 for my new build. I like the .260 in my bolt action, I'm just concerned I can't get the velocity I'll need to make the .260 achieve it's potential with a 22-24 in. barrel, with a preference to the 22 inch in either caliber.

Ideally I would build two uppers but that will be a while down the road.
 
Re: .260 round and competition.

Remington brass, sized, VLD chamfered, loaded with 4 test loads 1/2 grain apart:

IMG00040sc.jpg


Brass is not an issue.