.308 Winchester

ColinW

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Those of you shooting Berger 200.2x's:

What powder and charges have you been using? None of the reloading books I have, have any reloading data for this bullet(or any bullet of 200gr in .308 win) Including the Berger reloading book :rolleyes:

How have the results been?

I've got plenty of IMR-4895, BLC2, Varget, Win. 760.

Thanks!
 

thestoicmarcusaurelius

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  • Jun 15, 2020
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    Got 8 pounds of the new Reloader 15.5 in to try out with 185 Juggernauts and 155 TMK's.

    Also have a good number of 175 SMK's, RDF's and Match Burner's but not as interested in those as the above two.

    Will report back hopefully this weekend to see how it does compared to Varget, IMR 4895, IMR 4166, and 4064.
     
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    otnot

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    Well it finally got above 0 up here and I was able to get out and do a seating depth test of the SMK 169. I started .015 out of jam and in .005 increments went out to .085 out of jam. I shot 3 shot groups at 300 yards. For my gun this bullet likes to jump .080 and .055 and I have to re-shoot the .070 as I pulled one shot. This was shot with 43.7 g. IMR 4895. Next I'll do a 600 yard ladder test of these three seating depths.
     

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    ghostrider_OneOne

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    Sep 20, 2021
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    Stock Savage model 10 fcp 20" barrel.
    4895 43.2
    LC brass
    Russian primer
    2.248 OG
    169 SMK
    2610 fps
    ES 17
    SD 8 (10 shot string)

    Consistent 1/4" groups at 100
    Group in picture at 200 y
     

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    ghostrider_OneOne

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    Well it finally got above 0 up here and I was able to get out and do a seating depth test of the SMK 169. I started .015 out of jam and in .005 increments went out to .085 out of jam. I shot 3 shot groups at 300 yards. For my gun this bullet likes to jump .080 and .055 and I have to re-shoot the .070 as I pulled one shot. This was shot with 43.7 g. IMR 4895. Next I'll do a 600 yard ladder test of these three seating depths.
    I've worked up a very similar load for my rifle.
    4895 43.2
    I started my seating depth .020 off and went at .003 increments to .060 off
    I had great results at
    026 off and .032 off
    Using a comparator at Ogive 2.248 oal hammered, consistent quarter inch groups
    I posted a picture in my post a couple down from this post
    I'm loving the new 169smk. My range has targets to 950y.
    With load listed above hit 7 of 10 in final string
     
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    otnot

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    43.7 I 4895, any pressure signs specially with the .055 and shorter jumps ? Any special chambering ; ie; Palma, M 118,FR-R ?

    Thank you
    No pressure signs and it’s just a Savage chamber that I throated .030 extra. Today I did a ladder test and the last load was 44.4 and the primer was pretty flat but no hard bolt lift. Keep in mind I’m shooting in cold weather here in Alaska. Those groups were shot at 19 degrees.
     

    otnot

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    Here’s my ladder test at 600 yards.
    IMR 4895 42.2-44.4 in 3/10 gr. Increments
    Ogive 2.155
    Moa adjustment from 100 yd. zero +13.75
    Temperature 18 f
    I’m open to suggestions on this one. LOL
     

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    otnot

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    Stock Savage model 10 fcp 20" barrel.
    4895 43.2
    LC brass
    Russian primer
    2.248 OG
    169 SMK
    2610 fps
    ES 17
    SD 8 (10 shot string)

    Consistent 1/4" groups at 100
    Group in picture at 200 y
    Nice group. What comparator are you using? Mine is stuck jammed at 2.210 and I throated mine .030. The ogive of 2.155 gives me a coal of 2.888.
     

    straightshooter1

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    Nice group. What comparator are you using? Mine is stuck jammed at 2.210 and I throated mine .030. The ogive of 2.155 gives me a coal of 2.888.
    Glad you stated your COAL. :)

    What comparator insert are you using? I ask because I'm just a little curious as to why yours is so different from my comparator inserts.

    If I were to load my cartridges with the 169 SMK's to a COAL of 2.888", my CBTO measures 2.223" using my Sinclair comparator insert, which I typically use, and 2.899" using my Hornady comparator insert (noting that bullet length can be just a little different and effect in COAL). I'm only bringing this up for the general readers here as to why stating a CBTO measurement has no real meaning, except how it relates to that one specific tool in the same way that stating a jump has no meaning due to variation in freebores. When a COAL is stated, then we can have a better idea as to the seating depth and how it might fit into our own chambers according to our measurement with our tools.
     

    otnot

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    Glad you stated your COAL. :)

    What comparator insert are you using? I ask because I'm just a little curious as to why yours is so different from my comparator inserts.

    If I were to load my cartridges with the 169 SMK's to a COAL of 2.888", my CBTO measures 2.223" using my Sinclair comparator insert, which I typically use, and 2.899" using my Hornady comparator insert (noting that bullet length can be just a little different and effect in COAL). I'm only bringing this up for the general readers here as to why stating a CBTO measurement has no real meaning, except how it relates to that one specific tool in the same way that stating a jump has no meaning due to variation in freebores. When a COAL is stated, then we can have a better idea as to the seating depth and how it might fit into our own chambers according to our measurement with our tools.
    That's a good point because mine is a Sinclair as well and it is quite a bit different than my Hornaday
     

    ghostrider_OneOne

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    Here’s my ladder test at 600 yards.
    IMR 4895 42.2-44.4 in 3/10 gr. Increments
    Ogive 2.155
    Moa adjustment from 100 yd. zero +13.75
    Temperature 18 f
    I’m open to suggestions on this one. LOL
    I would recommend using a chronograph and watching SD rather than groups, once you have a load with low ED then move to on to tuning the OAL
     

    ghostrider_OneOne

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    Glad you stated your COAL. :)

    What comparator insert are you using? I ask because I'm just a little curious as to why yours is so different from my comparator inserts.

    If I were to load my cartridges with the 169 SMK's to a COAL of 2.888", my CBTO measures 2.223" using my Sinclair comparator insert, which I typically use, and 2.899" using my Hornady comparator insert (noting that bullet length can be just a little different and effect in COAL). I'm only bringing this up for the general readers here as to why stating a CBTO measurement has no real meaning, except how it relates to that one specific tool in the same way that stating a jump has no meaning due to variation in freebores. When a COAL is stated, then we can have a better idea as to the seating depth and how it might fit into our own chambers according to our measurement with our tools.
    I'm using the Hornady
     

    straightshooter1

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    That's a good point because mine is a Sinclair as well and it is quite a bit different than my Hornaday
    Yeah, and you can see what the difference is like between the two inserts of mine. Also, we can see that even though you and I are using the same brand of comparator insert (the Sinclair), there's still a significant difference of .068" between our two . . . even if one accounts for some difference between our lots of 169 SMK's BTO's.

    BTW: I've found a good accuracy node for my 26" Krieger barrel using 41.1 grs AR-Comp to push my 169 SMK's to around 2,725 fps, with groups less than .3". These cartridges are loaded with a COAL of 2.917 that put me ~.017 off my lands. With my previous Krieger 26" barrel using 45.0 grs of H-4895 (a pretty hot load) I got similar groups for my 169 SMK's with an MV at 2,849 fps when loaded to a COAL of 2.860" and .050" of my lands. Temperatures these were fired in were just under 70°F. But for the H-4895 I found an accuracy node I preferred to use at 43.9 grs of H-4895 with a COAL of 2.929" and giving me an MV around 2,792 fps (giving one of my best ever 5 shot groups at .017").
     
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    otnot

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    I think this bullet has a lot of potential, but I don't have enough different powders available to me up here in Alaska to test it like I would like to. The difference between the 175 smk and the 169 at a 1,000 yards is 78 inches. So it's a much flatter shooting bullet. I guess I'm going to have to dip into my final stash of Varget and see how it does. Have you ever tried CFE223 because I have quite a bit of it. Well it's 10 am and almost light enough to go shoot. Have a good day.
     

    Snuby642

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  • Feb 11, 2017
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    FWIW I beat cfe223 to death with 168 smk and 175's as well.
    No group with the 175's and barely cracked 1 moa with the 168.

    As soon as I got varget under them and the 165 sgk I was hitting 0.6 moa and on down to a 0.3 group on some. (Actually had a cherry 0.21)

    You can get to 1 moa with the cfe223 but past that I wasted a lot of bullets and powder better suited for other things.

    Yesterday I managed to get 3lbs of varget ordered from Hodgdon and my son got one lb ordered.

    It took me about 5 tries to get it and that's all it would let me get. My son took 30 minutes and got only one?

    By the time I took 30 seconds to call him and hang up it was allready showing empty so I didn't bother posting.

    Six months worth of checking every time I opened my browser sometimes till 2 AM.

    So now I get to play with the 169 smk's. Ye Ha

    I think cfe223 is too fast for heavy bullets in twist rates of 1/10 with a "full" case.
     
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    straightshooter1

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    I think this bullet has a lot of potential, but I don't have enough different powders available to me up here in Alaska to test it like I would like to. The difference between the 175 smk and the 169 at a 1,000 yards is 78 inches. So it's a much flatter shooting bullet. I guess I'm going to have to dip into my final stash of Varget and see how it does. Have you ever tried CFE223 because I have quite a bit of it. Well it's 10 am and almost light enough to go shoot. Have a good day.
    Yes, I've tried CFE223 in my .308, but it's been about 5 years since. At the time, I didn't get the results I wanted even though my reloading process wasn't as refined as it is now. The best result I got was with 45.3 grs of it pushing 175 SMK's at 90°F giving me ~.7 MOA results. Because it's too temperature sensitive for my use here in Arizona and I didn't care that the case wasn't as full as I like to have, I decided not to ever use it for this caliber since there are many other powders I found that work much better for me.
     
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    otnot

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    Well I guess I'm going to have to sacrifice my last Varget to get any further with this 169 project. It really sucks they won't ship powder and primers to Alaska, as there's a whole bunch of frustrated shooters up here.
     

    otnot

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    FWIW I beat cfe223 to death with 168 smk and 175's as well.
    No group with the 175's and barely cracked 1 moa with the 168.

    As soon as I got varget under them and the 165 sgk I was hitting 0.6 moa and on down to a 0.3 group on some. (Actually had a cherry 0.21)

    You can get to 1 moa with the cfe223 but past that I wasted a lot of bullets and powder better suited for other things.

    Yesterday I managed to get 3lbs of varget ordered from Hodgdon and my son got one lb ordered.

    It took me about 5 tries to get it and that's all it would let me get. My son took 30 minutes and got only one?

    By the time I took 30 seconds to call him and hang up it was allready showing empty so I didn't bother posting.

    Six months worth of checking every time I opened my browser sometimes till 2 AM.

    So now I get to play with the 169 smk's. Ye Ha

    I think cfe223 is too fast for heavy bullets in twist rates of 1/10 with a "full" case.
    Keep us posted on your adventure with the 169 gr. I'm officially done with the IMR 4895 after today. I can get MOA out to 600 and that's it. I've tried different charges and bullet seating from .015 off to .080 off. So off I go down another rabbit hole. LOL
     

    BuLLet

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    How do you actually get it then? Road trip? Boat trip?

    Well I guess I'm going to have to sacrifice my last Varget to get any further with this 169 project. It really sucks they won't ship powder and primers to Alaska, as there's a whole bunch of frustrated shooters up here.
     

    Snuby642

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    Well these days you get what you can. We were out of varget for over a year.

    Cfe223 (which I love) didn't work well in our barrel / twist rate.

    Does not imply it will not work in yours. My sons 308 likes the taste of varget and not much else.

    I tried hard to change it's diet.
     

    Snuby642

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    Well I guess that's no longer ups ground. Lol

    Sorry for your troubles on that.
    It's bad enough in the lower 48.
     

    otnot

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    I don’t think Canada would let us land to refuel or I’d ask my buddy with a turbo otter to take a trip south. I was thinking more of a 40ft shipping container of primers and powder. Even Anchorage doesn’t have powder or primers.
     

    TommyD11730

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    Hey guys hope everyone is enjoying their day today.
    So I just stumbled on some "old" SMK 155 (2155c) bullets. Has anyone had any suscess with them?
    I normally shoot 175 SMKS with 4064 mag length through my 700P. Only looking to shoot 1-200 yards.
    So any education on these bullets would be helpful.
    Thanks!
     

    straightshooter1

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    I've played around with some Sierra 155 Palma's, which is a longer bullet than the SMK's and 45.0 grs of IMR-4064 did alright when seated to a COAL of 2.842 in my gun. At 1-200 yds. the 155 SMK's should do great . . . and loading them long, they can still fit in the mag. ;)
     
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    diggler1833

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    Hey guys hope everyone is enjoying their day today.
    So I just stumbled on some "old" SMK 155 (2155c) bullets. Has anyone had any suscess with them?
    I normally shoot 175 SMKS with 4064 mag length through my 700P. Only looking to shoot 1-200 yards.
    So any education on these bullets would be helpful.
    Thanks!

    My old 700 SS 5R shot those better than anything else. Reloader 15 gave me the smallest groups, but I had good luck with IMR-4064 too. I don't have the data on my phone, but I remember choosing a nominal COL of 2.820 and it just worked. I was using CCI BR2s too.
     
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    rdsii64

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    155 grain Nosler CC
    Arsenal brass
    Wolf L/R primer
    Power Pro Varmint
    43.7
    43.9
    44.1
    44.3
    These are all sub .750 in my rifle, but 43.9 and 44.1 shoots in the .5's.
    I haven't chrono'd this so I have no confirmed mv's.
    The speer manual lists a minimum charge of 42.3@2738
    and a max charge of 47.1@2959 from a 24" barrel.
     

    otnot

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    I don't know it this will help anyone, but I shot for dope the other day out to 800 yards but I had to stop there due to visibility. Snow! I switched over to Varget from IMR4895. It's still to cold to set up the chronograph so I don't have any velocities for you. The load was 44.3 gr. of Varget pushing a 169 gr. SMK in a Winchester case with CCI primer with an ogive of 2.155 and a coal of 2.888. Here's the dope in MOA and yards with a 100 yard zero at 20 F.

    3.5-300
    6.5-400
    9.5-500
    13.5-600
    17-700
    20.5-800
     
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    Tempest 455

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    Those of you shooting Berger 200.2x's:

    What powder and charges have you been using? None of the reloading books I have, have any reloading data for this bullet(or any bullet of 200gr in .308 win) Including the Berger reloading book :rolleyes:

    How have the results been?

    I've got plenty of IMR-4895, BLC2, Varget, Win. 760.

    Thanks!
    Two different loads.

    43.3 Varget, Lapua Palma Brass, BR4.

    44.3 N150, Lapua brass, BR4.

    Both from 32" barrel.

    Varget load shot best so far in FTR 600 yards. N150 so far best at 1000 yards.
     

    ColinW

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    Two different loads.

    43.3 Varget, Lapua Palma Brass, BR4.

    44.3 N150, Lapua brass, BR4.

    Both from 32" barrel.

    Varget load shot best so far in FTR 600 yards. N150 so far best at 1000 yards.

    Many thanks! I’ve got plenty of Varget to use. No N150. Don’t have Lapua brass for .308, only LC. But, I’ll start around 40 or 41 and see how it shoots 😁👍🏻🇺🇸
     

    straightshooter1

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    Yes start lower with LC or Peterson. When I use Peterson I'm exactly 1.0g lower than Lapua Palma brass.
    For the .308 brass that I've have, case volume for Peterson is .4 gr H2O less than my Lapua Palma brass and LC is 1.1 grs H2O less than my Lapua brass. So, yeah . . . it's a good idea to start lower with those two from where one might be with their Lapua brass.
     
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    jab00

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    Anyone have a good starting point for using RL17 with 178 BTHPs and Norma brass? I’ve seen a few older posts with some numbers but was wondering if anyone has anything more recent. My range maxes out at 300 yards so I’m not looking for a ton of speed. I was thinking about starting at 44 gr and going to 45.1 gr in .3 increments (this would keep me in the middle of Hornady’s published range). This will be for an AI AT with a 24” barrel.
     

    Ldecker81

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    I’ve got a factory 20in, 1-10 .308 that loves Sig marksman elite 168grn. Im about a month into reloading for this rifle and having success with SMK and ELD-M with varget and x-terminator. Im curious what powder Sig uses in their elite marksman rounds, anyone know? I need to get another box and pull a couple, but figured I’d ask you guys to.