Same here. In fact I'm so pleased I may not return to Varget anytime soon, even if it is available.
- Thread starter Two Shoes
- Start date
Same here. In fact I'm so pleased I may not return to Varget anytime soon, even if it is available.
I thought I was in the same boat until I found the stash of IMR 4320 I had. I did a ladder test at 300yds and shot sub moa with it. I'm in the process of further refining it now. This was shot from a bone stock Rem700 Varmint in .308win. I posted the results in the ballistics and range report forum. As soon as I find that "ultimate load" I'll post here. IMR 4320 is worth a look for the 168gr anyway.
The thing I noticed about IMR 4064 is that it's now available in pretty steady quantities. Must be a factory of North American built versus "down under built".
Never used the 4320 but I'm sure it has it's possibilities. Too many powder types, too little supply of each
The thing I noticed about IMR 4064 is that it's now available in pretty steady quantities. Must be a factory of North American built versus "down under built".
Never used the 4320 but I'm sure it has it's possibilities. Too many powder types, too little supply of each
Haha true. I did a ladder test with the 4064 I had on hand too and it also shot sub MOA but the 4320 shot better to start. I'm still working on refining both of them to find out the clear cut winner so to speak.
For others interested in developing a load with IMR4064, you should look at this thread by Dan Newberry. All about IMR4064 and the load for FGMM, Very, Very Good! Dan developed the OCW Method.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ral-gold-medal-match-load-mk-316-mod-0-a.html
Seekers
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ral-gold-medal-match-load-mk-316-mod-0-a.html
Seekers
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Just shot this at my first 1000 yard match. The load did well (even if I didn't ). If you run the numbers it has some huge drop but the least windage compared to other .308 loads.
Bullet: 210gr Berger VLD Target
Case: Lapua .308 WIN Match
Primer: CCI #200
Powder: IMR 4320
Charge: 40.8gr
COAL: 2.890"
Velocity out of my 24" Savage factory barrel is 2450fps. I don't have my exact ES or SD handy but the ES is under 20fps.
). If you run the numbers it has some huge drop but the least windage compared to other .308 loads.Bullet: 210gr Berger VLD Target
Case: Lapua .308 WIN Match
Primer: CCI #200
Powder: IMR 4320
Charge: 40.8gr
COAL: 2.890"
Velocity out of my 24" Savage factory barrel is 2450fps. I don't have my exact ES or SD handy but the ES is under 20fps.
This is the trade-off when you go to a heavy bullet. They fly slower from a .308 but have more inertia to resist the wind "puffs". This is why some will use 30" barrels in competition. More speed to flatten out the trajectory and also get the benefit of the wind-cutting heavier bullet. If all you have to do is plunk down your rifle, shoot a few rounds ot to 1k, and then put it back in the truck, no big deal with the longer, heavier barrel. Haul one around all day, hunting whatever you "hunt", and longer barrels are no fun.
A couple of more good ones. These are 10 shot groups, shot from a 24" Brux barrel.
168gr Berger Classic Hunter
45.5gr Varget
CCI200
Lapua Brass
Base-to-ogive: 2.105"
Average Velocity: 2779fps
155gr Scenar
46gr TAC
CCI200
Lapua Brass
Base-to-ogive: 2.105"
Average Velocity: 2886fps
John
168gr Berger Classic Hunter
45.5gr Varget
CCI200
Lapua Brass
Base-to-ogive: 2.105"
Average Velocity: 2779fps
155gr Scenar
46gr TAC
CCI200
Lapua Brass
Base-to-ogive: 2.105"
Average Velocity: 2886fps
John
Bartlein # 9 28" with a Stiller Tac 30 in an AICS.
Been playing with it and found a good one. Here's 5 shots at 107 yards. Dot is a 3/4 " sticker that I buy at Walgreens
Been playing with it and found a good one. Here's 5 shots at 107 yards. Dot is a 3/4 " sticker that I buy at Walgreens
Bartlein # 9 28" with a Stiller Tac 30 in an AICS.
Been playing with it and found a good one. Here's 5 shots at 107 yards. Dot is a 3/4 " sticker that I buy at Walgreens
Bergers?
Yeah the Berger 185's
178 AMAX and 178 BTHP with 43.1 grains of Norma 203-B, LC11 brass, CCI 200 primers.
2720 fps.
2720 fps.
Here's one that is working great for me.
42.1 gr Varget
Winchester Brass
Wolf Primer
Nosler 175 Gr Custom Competition
2.825" OAL
10 rounds but in two groups. The top group was aimed at the center of the black center diamond. The next 5 were shot after a scope adjustment and used the top of the "pointer" where it joined the orange circle as an aim point.
This load holds sub 1/4 MOA out to 300 yards (max range I had to test). One note, I get solid accuracy like this as long as I use at least .003" of neck tension. I just use a Forster Benchrest Full Length Sizing die now and don't bother with any bushings or neck sizing only. If I want to use the internal magazine on my rifle, 2.825" is max and that leaves me with a jump around .020". A Benchrest "Guru" I shoot with suggests that the extra neck tension replaces the "resistance" when fired as they get when the bullet is jammed in the lands. He always increases neck tension when "jumping". I might also add that he also wins a lot.
42.1 gr Varget
Winchester Brass
Wolf Primer
Nosler 175 Gr Custom Competition
2.825" OAL
10 rounds but in two groups. The top group was aimed at the center of the black center diamond. The next 5 were shot after a scope adjustment and used the top of the "pointer" where it joined the orange circle as an aim point.
This load holds sub 1/4 MOA out to 300 yards (max range I had to test). One note, I get solid accuracy like this as long as I use at least .003" of neck tension. I just use a Forster Benchrest Full Length Sizing die now and don't bother with any bushings or neck sizing only. If I want to use the internal magazine on my rifle, 2.825" is max and that leaves me with a jump around .020". A Benchrest "Guru" I shoot with suggests that the extra neck tension replaces the "resistance" when fired as they get when the bullet is jammed in the lands. He always increases neck tension when "jumping". I might also add that he also wins a lot
. Deadshot2
TARGET SAYS 44.1 GRNS VARGET
So which is it?
TARGET SAYS 44.1 GRNS VARGET
So which is it?
Here's one that is working great for me.
42.1 gr Varget
Winchester Brass
Wolf Primer
Nosler 175 Gr Custom Competition
2.825" OAL
10 rounds but in two groups. The top group was aimed at the center of the black center diamond. The next 5 were shot after a scope adjustment and used the top of the "pointer" where it joined the orange circle as an aim point.
This load holds sub 1/4 MOA out to 300 yards (max range I had to test). One note, I get solid accuracy like this as long as I use at least .003" of neck tension. I just use a Forster Benchrest Full Length Sizing die now and don't bother with any bushings or neck sizing only. If I want to use the internal magazine on my rifle, 2.825" is max and that leaves me with a jump around .020". A Benchrest "Guru" I shoot with suggests that the extra neck tension replaces the "resistance" when fired as they get when the bullet is jammed in the lands. He always increases neck tension when "jumping". I might also add that he also wins a lot
VERY nice!
Deadshot2
TARGET SAYS 44.1 GRNS VARGET
So which is it?
Good question!
Both 5 shots at 100yds.
45gr on the left, 45.5gr on the right. Note 45.5gr is 5/10ths above max and was hot.
Varget
Hornady 178gr BTHP
Nosler Brass
Fed 210m
COL 2.865
3 of 45gr shots 500yds. They're turning out well
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Deadshot2
TARGET SAYS 44.1 GRNS VARGET
So which is it?
Sorry, the target is right. I use a 42.1-42.2 load when I use IMR-4064. This was done with Varget.
44.2 Varget, 175 SMK M118LR brass trimmed to 2.05 BR2 primers load shot the same POI as my 44.6 gr Varget load in Winchester brass, everything else is the same. Both loads will shoot 3/8 moa @ 100 when the idiot behind the gun does his job.
45.2gr Varget
168gr VLD
CCI 200
'82 LCNM Brass
2.105" Base to ogive
2780 fps from 24" barrel.
10 shots @100m. .652 MOA
168gr VLD
CCI 200
'82 LCNM Brass
2.105" Base to ogive
2780 fps from 24" barrel.
10 shots @100m. .652 MOA
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Berger VLD Target Hybrid 200gr:
Just started loading up a few tester rounds and I'm looking for a little more information about this particular bullet. Berger replied to my email for specs becasue this bullet isn't in the manual yet. They said the max powder amount for Varget is 39.6 gr and I was wanting to hear from the Hide what powder amounts you guys are loading up.
The ones I've loaded up so far are:
Lapua brass (new)
CCI 200 primers
Varget 39.6gr
Berger VLD hybrid 200gr
Ogive 2.222
My stick is a Sako TRG-22 26" barrel.
Thanks guys, Happy Shooting
Just started loading up a few tester rounds and I'm looking for a little more information about this particular bullet. Berger replied to my email for specs becasue this bullet isn't in the manual yet. They said the max powder amount for Varget is 39.6 gr and I was wanting to hear from the Hide what powder amounts you guys are loading up.
The ones I've loaded up so far are:
Lapua brass (new)
CCI 200 primers
Varget 39.6gr
Berger VLD hybrid 200gr
Ogive 2.222
My stick is a Sako TRG-22 26" barrel.
Thanks guys, Happy Shooting
MR-2000 50.0gr
SBS brass
Wolf LRP
Nosler 155gr
Brux 1/11 twist, 30"
There was an OCW node at 48.5gr that run 2970fps. I haven't had a chance to chrono the new load at 50.0 gr. Per Dan's guestimate, the next node was very close to 3%. 600 yds, 4 into 3.5", fith shot opened it to 4.5" laterally. Held 2.5" vertical.
SBS brass
Wolf LRP
Nosler 155gr
Brux 1/11 twist, 30"
There was an OCW node at 48.5gr that run 2970fps. I haven't had a chance to chrono the new load at 50.0 gr. Per Dan's guestimate, the next node was very close to 3%. 600 yds, 4 into 3.5", fith shot opened it to 4.5" laterally. Held 2.5" vertical.
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(6) (5) round groups shot prone with bipod and rear bag 100yrds (I think the very bottom was 6 shots or more though).
175 SMK
Varget 44.8gr
3rd shot Lapua Brass FL sized trimmed to 2.007"
FGMM #210 primer
OAL 2.82"
Velocity approx. 2716 from 10 shots measured with Magnetospeed chrono
*If someone wants the O-Give just let me know (need to find my book as I misplaced it)
shot with a 24" Accuracy International MKIII
Group sizes farthest edge to edge = .848 .930 .944 1.189 .928 .71 Avg = .924"
Group sizes when you subtract .308 = .54 .622 .636 .881 .620 .402 Avg = .616"
175 SMK
Varget 44.8gr
3rd shot Lapua Brass FL sized trimmed to 2.007"
FGMM #210 primer
OAL 2.82"
Velocity approx. 2716 from 10 shots measured with Magnetospeed chrono
*If someone wants the O-Give just let me know (need to find my book as I misplaced it)
shot with a 24" Accuracy International MKIII
Group sizes farthest edge to edge = .848 .930 .944 1.189 .928 .71 Avg = .924"
Group sizes when you subtract .308 = .54 .622 .636 .881 .620 .402 Avg = .616"
Dooh! Never mind.
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all of those factors/ componets have been well documented as a safe and accurate load........ I'd ditch the 168 and get the 175smk but that's me. additionally I increase the charge wt to 44.5 and cut an inch off that barrel.... oh wait that's my load for my gun...
AW 19" barrel 44.5 gr Varget 175smk getting 2600fps
Berger match vld hunting
168 grn
Lapua case
Win primer
39.5 grn IMR 4064
Coal 2.918
Aprox: 2283 fps IIRC
From a stock rem 700 sps tac. 20" brl
Front bipod rear bag prone.
Although this was very accurate at 100 I going to move further up to gain some much needed velocity...lol
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168 grn
Lapua case
Win primer
39.5 grn IMR 4064
Coal 2.918
Aprox: 2283 fps IIRC
From a stock rem 700 sps tac. 20" brl
Front bipod rear bag prone.
Although this was very accurate at 100 I going to move further up to gain some much needed velocity...lol
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20" remington 700 SPS tactical (stock everything) with a leupold mk4 3.5-10x40. Stock trigger too at 4 lbs.
65deg. Fahrenheit
175gr SMK
FGMM 7.62x51 brass
Winchester large rifle primers
42.0gr H4895
Avg. 2580fps
Cases trimmed to 2.010
Bullet seated to 2.815
This is my new accuracy load.
Was using 41.6gr of h4895, and the groups (5rnd groups) were around 1moa to 1.5moa average.
The new load, at 42.0gr of h4895, I have fired only 10 rounds of. 5 rounds were chronoed (2580fps) and the next 5 I shot a group of 0.6 MOA at 100 yards.
Have yet to try varget, but have some under the bench. Don't worry about lot differences in hodgdon. The lot difference between varget powder is only +\- 8fps. So I'd say it's very consistent
65deg. Fahrenheit
175gr SMK
FGMM 7.62x51 brass
Winchester large rifle primers
42.0gr H4895
Avg. 2580fps
Cases trimmed to 2.010
Bullet seated to 2.815
This is my new accuracy load.
Was using 41.6gr of h4895, and the groups (5rnd groups) were around 1moa to 1.5moa average.
The new load, at 42.0gr of h4895, I have fired only 10 rounds of. 5 rounds were chronoed (2580fps) and the next 5 I shot a group of 0.6 MOA at 100 yards.
Have yet to try varget, but have some under the bench. Don't worry about lot differences in hodgdon. The lot difference between varget powder is only +\- 8fps. So I'd say it's very consistent
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168 smk 42 grains of almost any popular 308 powder!!! It's always seemed that 42 is a magic number
Tikka T3 loads
VV140 - 43.0
SMK168
lapua brass
COL-2.815
cci primer
2560 ft\sec
VV540 - 46.0
Berger 175BTLR
lapua brass
COL - 2.931
cci primer
2725 ft\sec
VV140 - 43.0
SMK168
lapua brass
COL-2.815
cci primer
2560 ft\sec
VV540 - 46.0
Berger 175BTLR
lapua brass
COL - 2.931
cci primer
2725 ft\sec
Ok so I am new to long range shooting. I bought an entry remington 700 sps-v with 1-12 twist barrel. Plan on doing some work to it as a project to shoot 600 yards accurately. Stock, trigger, and quality optics are a must. I was wondering if the 168 Amax is going to be too light for 600? Should I jump to 178 or is my 1-12 trust too high? Going to use hornady brass, varget, and fed210. Thanks for replys.
Very nice group, Fuerte!
Jkling, I have the same rifle and have only shot factory ammo to this point. My 700 loves FGMM (168gr) very well. Sub MOA right out of the box with the factory stock. I have been following the FGMM thread in this section closely. If you can score some IMR4064 you may want to explore that option. I am getting setup to do some testing with my 700 with a hand - loaded FGMM copy to start some accuracy testing. I'll be using the load suggested and then varying a couple of grains high and low to shoot for groups.
From what I've read the 1:12 should shoot the 170+ range grainers should be just fine and out to 600 they will remain supersonic with a standard load. Getting out past 1000 is where the heavier bullet it's needed. All of this information is coming from reading threads on here so I think ultimately testing will need to be done to see how your rifle reacts.
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Jkling, I have the same rifle and have only shot factory ammo to this point. My 700 loves FGMM (168gr) very well. Sub MOA right out of the box with the factory stock. I have been following the FGMM thread in this section closely. If you can score some IMR4064 you may want to explore that option. I am getting setup to do some testing with my 700 with a hand - loaded FGMM copy to start some accuracy testing. I'll be using the load suggested and then varying a couple of grains high and low to shoot for groups.
From what I've read the 1:12 should shoot the 170+ range grainers should be just fine and out to 600 they will remain supersonic with a standard load. Getting out past 1000 is where the heavier bullet it's needed. All of this information is coming from reading threads on here so I think ultimately testing will need to be done to see how your rifle reacts.
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thanks for the reply. I plan on picking up a lot of different bullets to test but just interested in what you guys think I should start with. Thanks again
You don't need to waste money trying lots of bullets, 175 Sierra Match King or 178 AMAX will be fine for a long ways out. After you get more proficient you might want to change down the line but most are happy with one of these and they won't break the bank.
I still shoot the 175 SMK's after many years.
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I agree those are awesome bullets and I don't "need" to get others but I like trying different bullets especially for hunting. The Amax is alright but I don't want to use match bullets for hunting. I love the Barnes ttsx for anything deer size and up.
Then state all your needs to get an accurate answer, long range accurate shooting to 600 yards is not usually associated with hunting.
good luck on your new endeavor,
Seekers
New load discovered yesterday.
Winchester Case
Nosler 175 gr Custom Competition
Fed GMM 210M Primer
47.3 gr CFE223 (.2gr less than max)
2.810" OAL
Rifle, 24" 5-C Benchmark Barrel on Rem 700 SS
B&C Medalist Varmint/Tactical Stock
Sinclair Tactical Bipod
Timney Trigger
NF 12-42X56 NXS
Group size .33 MOA @200 yards. .2 gr less or .2 gr more started the "scatter group" so the 47.3 gr charge weight is dead on for my rifle.
Nice to have a powder that I can use in both my .223's and .308's. Also helps that I have two jugs of the stuff
Winchester Case
Nosler 175 gr Custom Competition
Fed GMM 210M Primer
47.3 gr CFE223 (.2gr less than max)
2.810" OAL
Rifle, 24" 5-C Benchmark Barrel on Rem 700 SS
B&C Medalist Varmint/Tactical Stock
Sinclair Tactical Bipod
Timney Trigger
NF 12-42X56 NXS
Group size .33 MOA @200 yards. .2 gr less or .2 gr more started the "scatter group" so the 47.3 gr charge weight is dead on for my rifle.
Nice to have a powder that I can use in both my .223's and .308's. Also helps that I have two jugs of the stuff
175gr SMK at 2580 FPS will be 1175 fps at 1000 yards at sea level, around 70 degrees. Subsonic is around 1150 fps, so don't worry about that.
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175g Berger hpbt target
44.5g Varget
Hornady .308 match brass
Winchester LR primer
COL 2.800
Out of a Savage 10fcp-k gave me < 1/2" groups @ 100yd
44.5g Varget
Hornady .308 match brass
Winchester LR primer
COL 2.800
Out of a Savage 10fcp-k gave me < 1/2" groups @ 100yd
45gr R15 behind 155gr Bullets seems to be a good accuracy node in my rifle. Two different bullets, two different cases, two different primers but the same powder charge produce great accuracy for me. These are 10 shot groups.
John
The 155gr VLDs averaged 2860fps.
The 155gr Scenars averaged 2870fps.
John
The 155gr VLDs averaged 2860fps.
The 155gr Scenars averaged 2870fps.
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<1/3 MOA
178 AMAX
42.8gr 8208 XBR
Lapua Brass
CCI Primer
2.925 COAL
2580 FPS out of 20" Remington 700 5R
30 Extreme Spread
178 AMAX
42.8gr 8208 XBR
Lapua Brass
CCI Primer
2.925 COAL
2580 FPS out of 20" Remington 700 5R
30 Extreme Spread
Here is the load Ive have best results with in my 700 SPS.
Sierra 175gr SMKs
Federal 210 primer
Federal GMM twice fired brass trimmed back to 2.005
IMR4064 at 42gr
OAL 2.800
I was able to achieve a .58 group at 100 yards. This was my first time trying this load and also this was the first time shooting this rifle. I have more to work with on it but Im happy with the load so far.
I fired a total of 6 shots. The lower one to measure the round size and then the 5 shot group in the center.
Sierra 175gr SMKs
Federal 210 primer
Federal GMM twice fired brass trimmed back to 2.005
IMR4064 at 42gr
OAL 2.800
I was able to achieve a .58 group at 100 yards. This was my first time trying this load and also this was the first time shooting this rifle. I have more to work with on it but Im happy with the load so far.
I fired a total of 6 shots. The lower one to measure the round size and then the 5 shot group in the center.
Here is the load Ive have best results with in my 700 SPS.
Sierra 175gr SMKs
Federal 210 primer
Federal GMM twice fired brass trimmed back to 2.005
IMR4064 at 42gr
OAL 2.800
I was able to achieve a .58 group at 100 yards. This was my first time trying this load and also this was the first time shooting this rifle. I have more to work with on it but Im happy with the load so far.
I fired a total of 6 shots. The lower one to measure the round size and then the 5 shot group in the center.
What velocities where you seeing with this load?
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I wasnt able to bring my chrono this time but will be out working with this same load this weekend and will have it then.
42 grains of 4064 is about 2620 feet per second in a 26 inch Remington 700
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Anybody interested in this combination should see the link below, where Dan Newberry duplicates the FGMM 175 round using these components. Very good read as he adjusts for variance in weight between manufacturers brass. The above load is almost right on.
Seekers
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ral-gold-medal-match-load-mk-316-mod-0-a.html
I have a stock 700 SPS TAC, 20" BBL, no mods, with Nightforce NXS 3.5-15X56mm
My favorite:
Lapua Brass-FLRS-first, neck size after.
CCI200 (I haven't tried others)
44.4 grns W 748
Avg. 2630 fps
168 SMK
2.88 OAL
<0.5 MOA @ 100, 0.8 MOA @ 200
New favorite:
All the above same, replace SMK with 168 grn A-MAX. Haven't chronod yet, but obviously better BC and less drop. 6" less drop at 600 yds.
Sub MOA at 100 yds. Shoots steel plate at 1,000 yds, approx. 10 degrees uphill.
similar 100 and 200 yard accuracy with
44.5 grns Varget
42 grns IMR 4064
43 grns XBR 8028.
My favorite:
Lapua Brass-FLRS-first, neck size after.
CCI200 (I haven't tried others)
44.4 grns W 748
Avg. 2630 fps
168 SMK
2.88 OAL
<0.5 MOA @ 100, 0.8 MOA @ 200
New favorite:
All the above same, replace SMK with 168 grn A-MAX. Haven't chronod yet, but obviously better BC and less drop. 6" less drop at 600 yds.
Sub MOA at 100 yds. Shoots steel plate at 1,000 yds, approx. 10 degrees uphill.
similar 100 and 200 yard accuracy with
44.5 grns Varget
42 grns IMR 4064
43 grns XBR 8028.
