• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Sidearms & Scatterguns 40 S&W over 41 Mag for Grizzly Bear Protection?

D

dakor

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 8, 2007
94
0
ND
I am not a handgun expert or shooter by any means I have a couple of them but I am a long gun guy. I have a Ruger red hawk in a 41 mag and it is heavy it weighs 3.5 lbs empty and I am shooting Cast Performance 250gr. WFNGC in it.
I shot an S&W M&P in a 40 S&W with 180 FMJ’s side by side with the 41 mag and I can shoot the 40 faster and a lot more accurate then I can the 41 mag when rushing shots. If I take my time with the 41 they are equal in accuracy but in a bear charge it is not going to be slow it is going to be fast. The 40 weighs 1lb 11 oz empty and does not feel heavy at all on my hip compared to the 41. I am going on a back country Elk hunt in a few weeks and there are grizzly bears there. I had an encounter with a bear a couple of years ago that ended with me just backing up out of the area and everything was fine so you do encounter bears in this area.


Ideally I would much rather have a rifle in my hands any day in a charge than any handgun round but when packing in and camping that is not always an option. I will have bear spray with as an option as well. So am I nuts for thinking about packing the 40 over the 41? My thought is I would rather have something I can hit where I need to quickly and give up some power over having more power and not being as accurate. Your thoughts?
 
I have a Glock 29SF in 10mm. It sounds like that would be your ticket. It's basically a .41 magnum that is lighter and holds 10 rounds.
 
I'd take 41 in a heartbeat over 40, at least assuring chance of better penetration of heavy hide, meat and bone with a 250gr flat point, if you could make the shot. Absence of penetration with a 40 and possibility of a wounded grizzly might leave you with a much elevated risk to your own hide, even if you emptied a mag in it. That said, never hunted grizzly, but the math would seem to favor the 41, or a avoiding a confrontation, if possible. You hunting elk with rifle and why not just work on proficiency with it?
 
The reality is you are only going to have time for one line of defense...if you are lucky. In my opinion you need to either choose bear spray or a handgun...but it is senseless to carry both. I recently returned from a hike in bear country where several of us went. Some of us had guns and the ones that didn't carried spray. Problem is...if a gun is not large enough to put the bear down quickly you will be dead...even if the bear dies later. I carried a S&W airlite 44mag (329pd) and that is the smallest gun I would carry in bear country. I also practiced with the gun for several hundred rounds until I felt proficient with it. It weighed in at just under 2 lbs fully loaded. The other guys carried 38spl and 9mm, but in my opinion those two rounds (as well as a 40s&w) are just a false sense of security. I would take bear spray over a 40.
 
pdogsbeware said:
Bear mace. Much faster than waiting for a bear to bleed out after being shot while it's tearing you up.
Click to expand...

YUP. If you are actualy worried about BEARS, a 12GA autoloader with slugs is what you should be carrying. Most people are lucky to get off one or two shots before the bear is on top of them.

Been there done that with the G29, its impractical. If you have to go semi, get a G20 with hot loads.

.44Mag is probally the lower limited of what is needed for reliable crainial penetration on bears.

Bear spray is also MUCH more effective.
 
Cobracutter said:
YUP. If you are actualy worried about BEARS, a 12GA autoloader with slugs is what you should be carrying. Most people are lucky to get off one or two shots before the bear is on top of them.

Been there done that with the G29, its impractical. If you have to go semi, get a G20 with hot loads.

.44Mag is probally the lower limited of what is needed for reliable crainial penetration on bears.

Bear spray is also MUCH more effective.
Click to expand...

I should add I will have a 375 Ultra Mag with me because I am rifle hunting Elk. The handgun and bear spray are for if I am on a long hike and the 375 is in the pack or I am in camp sleeping or not by my rifle. The first choice is the 375 the other two are if I cannot for some reason get to the first choice.
 
I would see how much penetration you get with the 40's before considering it.
Those are low velocity target loads but the fact they are FMJ might give you more penetration than a JHP.
If it were me I'd want a few well placed deep penetrating rounds over twice as many at a fraction of the depth.
 
Take a buddy and a .25 cal or .380 with you. Make sure it's nice and light and easily accessible. If you run into a bear issue, shoot your buddy in the knee and run like hell.
 
dakor said:
I should add I will have a 375 Ultra Mag with me because I am rifle hunting Elk. The handgun and bear spray are for if I am on a long hike and the 375 is in the pack or I am in camp sleeping or not by my rifle. The first choice is the 375 the other two are if I cannot for some reason get to the first choice.
Click to expand...

I would go with a glock20 then.

You are MUCH more likely to have problems with 2 legged critters than being attacked by a bear. Its a simple risk assesment. 10MM loaded hot will still provide some backup protection from bears, but is much more practical for dealing with people than some 454/.500 hand cannon.
 
I live and hunt in bear country and have had many encounters with Mr. Grizz, I carry a Glock 40cal for bear protection. I've had titanium 44mags and heavy 454's and hated carrying them because of the weight and bulk. I just started carrying my Glock because I carry one for work and train with them monthly, I'm confident that I can place 15 rounds accurately as fast as I can pull the trigger into the head of a bear. There is no way I can place multiple shots accurately with a large framed revolver. A Glock 10mm will be my next purchase but I'm pretty confident carrying the 40. I hunt with the wind in my face and as most know the wind likes to blow in Wyoming, I've sprayed many guys with OC and ended up with it in my face. So I don't have much trust in the fogger that they offer for bear spray.

We just had a fatal bear attack last week in our county, he wasn't carrying spray or a gun! So have something on you and don't hunt alone in bear country.
UPDATE: Bear attack confirmed in death of missing Utah man - County 10
 
RAGING JUDGE M513 REVOLVER .454 CASULL, .45 COLT, .410 GA - 6 SHOTS

That might make an interesting backpacking gun. 454 Casull is pretty nasty and the ability to also shoot 410 and 45colt for smaller game and snakes and what not makes it an interesting combo. Im not a big fan of the Judge overall as I think its a little gimicky, but my buddy that has one really likes his and has had zero problems out of it.
 
40 S&W over 41 Mag for Grizzly Bear Protection?

rjacobs said:
RAGING JUDGE M513 REVOLVER .454 CASULL, .45 COLT, .410 GA - 6 SHOTS

That might make an interesting backpacking gun. 454 Casull is pretty nasty and the ability to also shoot 410 and 45colt for smaller game and snakes and what not makes it an interesting combo. Im not a big fan of the Judge overall as I think its a little gimicky, but my buddy that has one really likes his and has had zero problems out of it.
Click to expand...

The problem with this handgun is that with that short of a barrel you won't get much more energy out of the 454 than you would the 45 colt. Just a lot more recoil and muzzle flash. Same reason I didn't go with a 2" barrel 500 smith. That and weight.
 
dddoo7 said:
The problem with this handgun is that with that short of a barrel you won't get much more energy out of the 454 than you would the 45 colt. Just a lot more recoil and muzzle flash.
Click to expand...

They make one with a longer barrel
RAGING JUDGE M513 REVOLVER .454 CASULL, .45 COLT, .410 GA - 6 SHOTS

But yes I agree. But still probably better terminal ballistics than a 40S&W. And like I said, generally I think these guns are a little gimicky, but they do kind of interest me for a backpacking gun for their versatility.
 
40 to 41 mag pretty big jump. How much is your life worth. I wouldn't let the extra pound or so determine whats best for my safty. A heavy 41 250+ smokes a 40 or a 10mm but if you can't shoot it worth a dang take the biggest cal you can shoot well. Thing is you have to shoot anything to get proficient with it. I personally would leave the 40 at home.
 
Cobracutter said:
Most people would not trust a taurus for a range toy...

As something that might save your life.................yea no
Click to expand...

Ive never owned a Taurus, but my buddy probably has 2500-3000 rounds through his Judge, mostly .410 with a few 45LC, but thats a shit load of rounds through that gun IMO. He hasnt reported any issues with it. He's kind of nutty. He shot a round of trap with it(actually hes probably done that a few times), and didnt do half bad. But 454 Casull is another beast altogether.

I would personally want a S&W 29 44mag of some variety if I was backpacking in dangerous animal territory. I carried a 29 when I was in Alaska last year and we also had a Marlin 45-70 somebody carried as well.
 
It appears that you are down to only two choices. If the .40 and .41mag. are your only short weapons, I would choose the .41 as long as it was double action. Practice with it on repeat aimed shots. I don't have a lot of faith in .40S&W as far as penetration is concerned. Most backwoods people will say that even a stout .44mag. is not enough in griz country.
 
Sadly it happens every year out there to a couple of people it is a shame for sure I am not going to be too far north of there about 50 miles and that mountain range has a lot of Grizzly's. So I took the 41 out last night and was practicing some quick draw shots at 25 yards and If I cock the hammer while bringing it up in front of me this is about the average at 25 yards and that dot is 2 inch's.

IMG_20140916_195304_726.jpg



If I don't cock the hammer it is about a pie plate at 25 yards with 3 shots same with rapid fire and cocking the hammer. If I just draw and shoot rapid fire without cocking the hammer it gets ugly I would say 6 shots would be a group size of a medium size human torso. That long trigger pull on that revolver is killing me I am used to 1.5 to 2lbs rifle triggers that break clean not a long draw out trigger pull. I wish Glock or S&W would just man up and make a 44 mag in an auto because no one wants to carry a Desert Eagle around. I think I am going to go with the 41 and cock the hammer if I need to shoot one.
 
Last edited:
I live in MT near G Bears. If you are going hunting in the lower 48, count yourself lucky if you see one, they are rare even for those that live in MT, ID, WY etc. They are fantastic creatures. If one charges you, and you don't spot it before it takes off, you probably won't even clear leather.

In most situations, the bear will act somewhere between curious and disinterested, and you will have the pleasure of viewing a grizzly bear.

The most dangerous situation is at night. If a bear comes in your tent, fight for all you are worth. That is a predatory bear. You'll be thankful you have the biggest gun you can. Don't worry about them sneaking up on your tent, bears are not particularly sneaky. They make a lot of noise. They grunt and snort, and are generally tearing shit up like logs (looking for bugs to eat), particularly in the fall.

Keep an eye out when you are gutting your elk. There have been some attacks in that sitch. One famous one where the hunter was wearing a pistol...and never even got it out of the holster.

Enjoy the hunt and don't worry about the bears. Just pay attention, particularly at higher risk times - gutting, dense forest,/bushes, around possible den areas.

They say in Glacier Park, It's more likely that you'll be struck by lightening than attacked by a bear. I think Glacier has the most bears in the lower 48.
 
dakor said:
Sadly it happens every year out there to a couple of people it is a shame for sure I am not going to be too far north of there about 50 miles and that mountain range has a lot of Grizzly's. So I took the 41 out last night and was practicing some quick draw shots at 25 yards and If I cock the hammer while bringing it up in front of me this is about the average at 25 yards and that dot is 2 inch's.

IMG_20140916_195304_726.jpg



If I don't cock the hammer it is about a pie plate at 25 yards with 3 shots same with rapid fire and cocking the hammer. If I just draw and shoot rapid fire without cocking the hammer it gets ugly I would say 6 shots would be a group size of a medium size human torso. That long trigger pull on that revolver is killing me I am used to 1.5 to 2lbs rifle triggers that break clean not a long draw out trigger pull. I wish Glock or S&W would just man up and make a 44 mag in an auto because no one wants to carry a Desert Eagle around. I think I am going to go with the 41 and cock the hammer if I need to shoot one.
Click to expand...

Get a trigger job! You can get an "N" frame revolver down to an 8# DA pull with great reliability on all primers. A smooth 8# DA pull is like butter.
 
Sadly, most shooters do not practice enough on double action mode. True, single action is more finitely accurate, and, with a heavy recoiling handgun it's almost as quick to thumb back the hammer verses double action. I don't know where you are in your level of ability with recoil management, but, practice in the basics of maintaining sight picture while squeezing off the shot. Everybody can not shoot heavy recoiling handguns. It's tuff to overcome the anicipation of the shot, but, if your life may depend on it it's imperitive that you do!! Practice for the perfect shot. It's mind over matter. the recoil is not going to hurt you. Just dismiss it. It sounds as if I'm assuming as to your ability, and I appologize if I am, I'm just commenting based on the target you provided and it appears you may have a problem with recoil.
 
40xs said:
Sadly, most shooters do not practice enough on double action mode. True, single action is more finitely accurate, and, with a heavy recoiling handgun it's almost as quick to thumb back the hammer verses double action. I don't know where you are in your level of ability with recoil management, but, practice in the basics of maintaining sight picture while squeezing off the shot. Everybody can not shoot heavy recoiling handguns. It's tuff to overcome the anicipation of the shot, but, if your life may depend on it it's imperitive that you do!! Practice for the perfect shot. It's mind over matter. the recoil is not going to hurt you. Just dismiss it. It sounds as if I'm assuming as to your ability, and I appologize if I am, I'm just commenting based on the target you provided and it appears you may have a problem with recoil.
Click to expand...


No apology needed I freely admit I am not a good pistol shot I do not shoot them enough I am starting to shoot them more. I would take a long gun over a pistol any day even on close up shots I know I am more accurate with one of those. The recoil does not bother me on the 41 the trigger pull seems to be the issue if I shoot it single action and take my time I am fairly accurate but when rushing rapid fire in double action it gets ugly compared to an auto of some sort. I am looking at sending the pistol off to fix the trigger part but there is no time for this trip. The odds are pretty good I will not need to use it which is fine with me but there are a lot of bears in the area where I am going and enough of them to keep most locals out because they don't want to deal with the bears so there is always a chance of running into one so it is best to be prepared for it.
 
Last edited:
It's good that you are practicing shooting. now try and shoot some groups while shitting your pants as that will be your most practical situation.
 
Me and having been charged and bluffed by ole booboo, heavy revolver Red Hawk in 44mag or 454 with hard cast. Of course many will have opinions and most of them will be regurgitated from the interweb or magazine stories and this is mine with a little bit of actual experience.

99% of all bear encounters are just that, encounters where ole booboo bluffs, he maybe 10 feet away but he is still bluffing. You back away non aggressive. No need to draw a weapon and fire but many people spook and draw and fire. Spray is 100% preferred for beat encounters Vs short guns to annoy the bear as you back away slowly. A true hell bent charge to stop the threat to ole booboo is very quick and silent, you scare or threaten the bear cubs are cache and unleash a fury like you cannot comprehend. Many times there is no time to draw and fire any weapon. In mine, booboo came from 4 oclock, head high grass quicker than a heart beat; I heard a noise, turned and bam, that quick. I was lucky that he knocking me stupid, jumped up on a rock about 10=15 yards away and sniffed and popped. If I would have had a 30mm bushmaster, 458, bear spray or my 44 nothing could have been drawn and fired in the lapse of time. Talking to a few around the area who got mauled, to the person said, just a blur and bear was on top them, no time to think even if it was a bear attack let alone defend against it, they happen that quick.

We had ole booboo circle our camp at night wanting a free easy meal. Twigs crack, popping, some water splash on in the Kenai during a canoe trip. My stupid partner got spooked and fired a couple rounds towards the sound, just think if he wounded it. Any way, did not sleep well and pushed this friend bye bye as he was not strong willed enough to handle the pressure of a bear encounter. Must control the mind at all cost.

Semi auto during a bear mauling cannot be pushed up into the hide of a the bear as ole booboo stands on top of you and go bang. Yes it has, does and will happened again, this is what happens in a mauling. Too many things can happen in a bear encounter to carry a semi but its your reasoning.

Shorter barrel is much easier to handle with ole booboo on top of you slapping you around.

Revolver in a chest holster so you can draw with either hand, understand your strong side hand maybe in ole booboos jaws so that cool thigh holster is useless. Rolled up in a ball protecting your core, you can still draw and get a possible shot into booboo hide with a chest holster.

Light weight frame 44 with hot load core cast can jump timing, seen it happen quite a few times as can the bullet come unseated and jam on the forcing cone, seen it happen. This is an actual warning in the owners manual. Me, Ruger Alaskan Red Hawk. Heavy yes but its the only revolver I trust.

There is an actual job of a bear guard in Alaska were hired to protect scientist, fish counters, etc in bear country all use 12ga slugs with revolver back up. Good money! To get certified a target of a bear size head low to the ground is pulled on a system of pulleys in an arc of 360 towards you. The target moves and someone yells bear, you have to locate it and fire and hit. Its not very easy but is good training. A old tire rolled down a hill will substitute, a tired is just about the width of a bears skull but please do not do it from the front as bears can come from any direction. 25 yards is the starting point all the way down to 10 yards.

Like someone said, its doubtful a bear will be encountered as they wind you and slither off watching you as you go by not even realizing a bear is close. Camp raiders, smell, head grass, berry season, fish runs, are a few indicators to put your guard up.

Hand guns have no more stopping power than a 30.30 win.

good luck
 
The only time a .40 S&W is ever going to be comparable to a .41 mag when dealing with a grizzly bear attack is if you plan on taking your pistol out and shooting yourself in the head. Even with the added "capability" of firing off more rounds with the .40, you are expecting a chance to have enough time to get those shots off.
 
Cobracutter said:
YUP. If you are actualy worried about BEARS, a 12GA autoloader with slugs is what you should be carrying. Most people are lucky to get off one or two shots before the bear is on top of them.

Been there done that with the G29, its impractical. If you have to go semi, get a G20 with hot loads.

.44Mag is probally the lower limited of what is needed for reliable crainial penetration on bears.

Bear spray is also MUCH more effective.
Click to expand...

Curious about the impracticality of the G29. I have the Gen4 SF and I like it. Small enough to carry concealed and I don't really have a complaint, other than the slide not locking back when empty (i think it's due to my palm putting pressure on the mag with the short grip). Not to derail the thread, just hoping I'm not in for a surprise down the road. Seems like a nice weapon.
 
We just had another bear mauling this weekend, guy was charged and mauled by a sow with two cubs. The man’s brother sprayed the bear with bear spray, causing it to stop its attack and retreat. I've been bluff charged in the same area and have seen up to 6 Grizzlies in the same drainage feeding on moths while sheep hunting. Alot of guys have stopped hunting elk out here because of bear encounters, we have a bear problem and that's a fact.
Never hunt alone in bear country.

Second bear attack this month reported north of Dubois yesterday - County 10
 
I spend much of my year wandering around areas of Alaska where both coastal brown bear and black bear populations are high. I am also a bear researcher/biologist (and hunter). I have long been a revolver fan and own several 41 and 44 magnums, single section Rugers as well as double action S&Ws and Rugers. You cannot make a 40 S&W a 41 Magnum. With that said, my preferred carry gun choice has evolved to where now I carry a Glock 20 10mm with Buffalo Bore or Underwood 220 grain hard cast bullets. I have also hunted black bears with this gun and load combo. The truth is there is not a handgun round out there which can be reliably counted on to stop an angry bear on muzzle energy alone. The key is penetration. A heavy hard cast bullet at a modest velocity can be counted on to to do just this. You are not hunting for bears. If I'm going after a brown bear or grizzly I will rely on a much heavier gun. For self defense, I believe a heavy, solid 40 from Buffalo Bore or DoubleTap will work just fine. Being able to shoot more accurately and get more rounds in target is best. I see more and more guides carrying the 10mm. Many go about their way with 45s, 40s, and 357s and don't think twice. Not even the Wildlife Troopers carry magnums. They carry 40's. Alaska State Park Rangers, who often have to deal with problem bears, are armed with 40's loaded with hard cast rounds, because they work. Take your 40. Load it properly, practice with it, feel confident with. Then don't worry about it as the probability of you getting attacked by a bear is about the same as getting struck by lightening.

With that said, bear spray is still your best option. I carry both. If a bear is getting to close to me I first go to my spray. Having a lethal back-up option is comforting though.
 
Last edited:
BigHawken54 said:
I spend much of my year wandering around areas of Alaska where both coastal brown bear and black bear populations are high. I am also a bear researcher/biologist (and hunter). I have long been a revolver fan and own several 41 and 44 magnums, single section Rugers as well as double action S&Ws and Rugers. You cannot make a 40 S&W a 41 Magnum. With that said, my preferred carry gun choice has evolved to where now I carry a Glock 20 10mm with Buffalo Bore or Underwood 220 grain hard cast bullets. I have also hunted black bears with this gun and load combo. The truth is there is not a handgun round out there which can be reliably counted on to stop an angry bear on muzzle energy alone. The key is penetration. A heavy hard cast bullet at a modest velocity can be counted on to to do just this. You are not hunting for bears. If I'm going after a brown bear or grizzly I will rely on a much heavier gun. For self defense, I believe a heavy, solid 40 from Buffalo Bore or DoubleTap will work just fine. Being able to shoot more accurately and get more rounds in target is best. I see more and more guides carrying the 10mm. Many go about their way with 45s, 40s, and 357s and don't think twice. Not even the Wildlife Troopers carry magnums. They carry 40's. Alaska State Park Rangers, who often have to deal with problem bears, are armed with 40's loaded with hard cast rounds, because they work. Take your 40. Load it properly, practice with it, feel confident with. Then don't worry about it as the probability of you getting attacked by a bear is about the same as getting struck by lightening.

With that said, bear spray is still your best option. I carry both. If a bear is getting to close to me I first go to my spray. Having a lethal back-up option is comforting though.
Click to expand...

Umm we don't have Alaska State Park rangers. We have Fish and Wildlife Troopers (a division inside of the Alaska State Troopers) and no they do not carry hard cast bullets. They carry 180 grain JHP's depending on who wins the bid on that bid cycle. Usually Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot or Remington Golden Sabers. Pistols are not used for dispatching bears except in an emergency. What is used is 870 shotguns with Breneke slugs or 45 70 Marlin Lever Actions or other authorized personal rifles. What is very popular up here is the 10mm when loaded with heavy bullets. I personally have sold my big bore 5 and 6 guns and started carrying a Glock 20 when I go out into the woods. My reasons are 1. It shoots the same as my Glock 17 and 19 I use for work and off duty. Same manual of arms means less can go wrong in a dangerous situation. 2. The 10mm has enough penetration to do the job and I can fire it a lot faster with accuracy than I could my revolvers. 3. Its lighter and easier to carry and holds a lot more ammo.

I have had to shoot a charging bear to defend myself. Fortunately it was with my Vang comped 870. I emptied 5 slugs into it in the span of about 20 feet and less than a couple of seconds. You would be surprised on how fast those animals can move. I have shot 5 bears in total in my life. One thing I do know is where you hit them makes a lot more difference than what you hit them with. I killed a bear with a 5.56 75 grain tap round once. Shot placement is what matters.

As for cranial penetration you don't need a 44 mag. A friend of mine who is now retired shot several grizzly skulls with a variety of handgun rounds to see what would penetrate. He found that a 180 grain 40sw FMJ would penetrate while a 180 grain JHP would not. He ended up with a .357 sig as his favorite pick after those tests. Even with the JHP's he tested like the 125 grain Gold Dot they penetrated the bear skulls. I personally would like a little more gun but he dealt with big bears far more than me and that was the choice he made.
pat
 
Last edited:
355 Sigfan, good advice. Some of my buddies around here have started carrying Glock 10mm for the same reasons. I've considered it too, as I put about 3k-4k rounds a year, through a G34. For various reasons some of them are now selling them.

Totally agree that shot placement is key, I've heard of bears being killed with 9mms and shrugging off much larger guns. Placement and bullet design probably being big factors.

FN in MT , was that photo taken here in MT? If so where and how much do you think he weighed?

I helped a buddy haul a 5x5 elk out of bear country yesterday. I carried my .44 and left my G35 at home...but have considered getting a G20. In addition to to the rounds I've shot through my G34, I've put about 8k rounds through a G21 and feel like I would be much better with the Glocks in a bad situation, but it's hard to leave the .44 at home.

There really is no easy answer in the great bear pistol debate.
 
Last edited:
Pics of the bear taken in self defense last weekend in Wyoming, shot with a 2" 44mag

998850_869498526395017_6490147378824354209_n.jpg

10653452_869498539728349_1065573672867515484_n.jpg
 
Thank you gentleman for the posts so far. Wyfox yes there is a bear problem out there and Mike Eastman said it best in a hunting video of his a few years back they were hunting in Alaska by boat and came across a Grizzly on shore. Mike looked at the guide and said you know the difference between an Alaskan Grizzly and a Wyoming one? He said if that was a Wyoming Grizzly he would trying to get in the boat with us right now. A 2 inch 44 mag really is not a 44 mag now is it according to this chart I found it has less muzzle energy than a 4 inch barrel 40 S&W or 45 ACP. BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .44 Mag Results Not that it is going to happen this year but I am looking at buying a new handgun and I am debating between a 10mm and a 45 ACP. What do you guys think of a 45 ACP with Hardcast +P ammo over a 10mm with Hardcast ammo?
 
If you are thinking about. 45 get a 460 Roland or a new 45 super co version instead. Not quite enough penetration wit standard or +p level 45 cap loads


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
dakor said:
Thank you gentleman for the posts so far. Wyfox yes there is a bear problem out there and Mike Eastman said it best in a hunting video of his a few years back they were hunting in Alaska by boat and came across a Grizzly on shore. Mike looked at the guide and said you know the difference between an Alaskan Grizzly and a Wyoming one? He said if that was a Wyoming Grizzly he would trying to get in the boat with us right now. A 2 inch 44 mag really is not a 44 mag now is it according to this chart I found it has less muzzle energy than a 4 inch barrel 40 S&W or 45 ACP. BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .44 Mag Results Not that it is going to happen this year but I am looking at buying a new handgun and I am debating between a 10mm and a 45 ACP. What do you guys think of a 45 ACP with Hardcast +P ammo over a 10mm with Hardcast ammo?
Click to expand...

10mm Auto 200 Grain Total Metal Jacket Box of 50
 
I've found the 45 to have inadequate penetration on deer.
I'd never think to use it on a bear except as a last resort.
 
Go 10mm all the way because penetration is king, most of the guys I hunt with or hang around carry a 10mm for bears. I have one friend that took a bear in self defense a couple years ago and he used a 41mag and that bear was stopped on the spot at just a few yards away. Compare the ballistics of the 10mm and 41mag they are very close to each other.
 
I was just in Alaska and we did a lot of hiking. I carried an older smith 44 and a glock 40. Hard cast Barnes bullets were my choice. I told my 14 year old son that if anything happened and I had time I would give him the glock. He is a good shot and has spent a lot of time training with me and his younger brother and sister.

With the choices you have I would go with the 41 with some Barnes hard cast bullets.
 
pdogsbeware said:
Bear mace. Much faster than waiting for a bear to bleed out after being shot while it's tearing you up.
Click to expand...

Well said. Having been stationed in Alaska and spent time up there, almost every bear attack I read about was a suprise. No time to get to a pistol if it's not already in hand.
Then you have to get a brain shot.

Or use Bear Spray, statistics say that only ONE person was ever injured but it was MILD after using the spray, vs how many guys were mauled while shooting a bear.
It's not about the coolest gun ,it's about saving your ass. Your mind is the best weapon so let your mind be flexible enough to carry non let hal means if they are more advantageous.

Withi a gun you have a 50% or greater (I read 37% as of 2010) chance of getting attacked while shooting.
With Bear Spray, 99% chance - one guy got scratched and had to get stitches but both parties still lived.

Besides, unless you are hunting a bear, they have their place in the order of things, why kill it when spray is more effective?

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf

Don't even get me started w hy I think the 40 cal is worthless, on a bear LOL, that's suicidal. Google the FBI investigation into that if you care, different debate.
IF you have to carry a gun and don't want to carry a 12 guage, carry the 41 mag, best all around penetrating other than a 10mm (Love 10mm!).

One of the bear attacks that happened on Kodiak was a guy carrying a revolver, a shotgun, and his rifle.
The bear was hiding and was on him before he could level his rifle, he tried to get pistol out, bear swiped it away and nearly severed his arm.
At that point his Inuit hunting guide put a 5.56 round in teh bear and stopped it dead. Unfortunate for the mauling victim, he had 1800lbs of bear on him and that caused almost as much damage as the actual mauling.
That happened in the 1990's.

In addition to Bear Spray, carry a noise maker. Unless it's an outcast griz (Old) or a mom with cub s, if they hear you coming MOST times they will avoid you.
Sneak up on one and you take your own chances.
Statistic: Most bear attacks are from black bears, I'll find the source if you need it.
 
Last edited:
355sigfan said:
Umm we don't have Alaska State Park rangers. We have Fish and Wildlife Troopers (a division inside of the Alaska State Troopers) and no they do not carry hard cast bullets. They carry 180 grain JHP's depending on who wins the bid on that bid cycle. Usually Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot or Remington Golden Sabers. Pistols are not used for dispatching bears except in an emergency. What is used is 870 shotguns with Breneke slugs or 45 70 Marlin Lever Actions or other authorized personal rifles. What is very popular up here is the 10mm when loaded with heavy bullets. I personally have sold my big bore 5 and 6 guns and started carrying a Glock 20 when I go out into the woods. My reasons are 1. It shoots the same as my Glock 17 and 19 I use for work and off duty. Same manual of arms means less can go wrong in a dangerous situation. 2. The 10mm has enough penetration to do the job and I can fire it a lot faster with accuracy than I could my revolvers. 3. Its lighter and easier to carry and holds a lot more ammo.

I have had to shoot a charging bear to defend myself. Fortunately it was with my Vang comped 870. I emptied 5 slugs into it in the span of about 20 feet and less than a couple of seconds. You would be surprised on how fast those animals can move. I have shot 5 bears in total in my life. One thing I do know is where you hit them makes a lot more difference than what you hit them with. I killed a bear with a 5.56 75 grain tap round once. Shot placement is what matters.

As for cranial penetration you don't need a 44 mag. A friend of mine who is now retired shot several grizzly skulls with a variety of handgun rounds to see what would penetrate. He found that a 180 grain 40sw FMJ would penetrate while a 180 grain JHP would not. He ended up with a .357 sig as his favorite pick after those tests. Even with the JHP's he tested like the 125 grain Gold Dot they penetrated the bear skulls. I personally would like a little more gun but he dealt with big bears far more than me and that was the choice he made.
pat
Click to expand...

I like the "Authorized personal weapons" part, in F airbanks they actually had quite a bit of freedom for that. Most guys had the 870 or a Mossberg.
After reading the s tats on shooting vs bear spray though, I'd carry a 10mm but would prefer to use the bear spray first.

The first time out I had a .444 marlin pistol when I was moose hunting. I had no idea how inadequate that was but it was better than nothing.
I bought a mossberg 500 at the Px the following weekend.
 
EAA makes a polymer CZ75 style clone in 10mm.
I would much rather have the .41, but the 10mm is a decent second choice.
 
montana3gunner said:
355 Sigfan, good advice. Some of my buddies around here have started carrying Glock 10mm for the same reasons. I've considered it too, as I put about 3k-4k rounds a year, through a G34. For various reasons some of them are now selling them.

Totally agree that shot placement is key, I've heard of bears being killed with 9mms and shrugging off much larger guns. Placement and bullet design probably being big factors.

FN in MT , was that photo taken here in MT? If so where and how much do you think he weighed?

I helped a buddy haul a 5x5 elk out of bear country yesterday. I carried my .44 and left my G35 at home...but have considered getting a G20. In addition to to the rounds I've shot through my G34, I've put about 8k rounds through a G21 and feel like I would be much better with the Glocks in a bad situation, but it's hard to leave the .44 at home.

There really is no easy answer in the great bear pistol debate.
Click to expand...

IIRC that picture was taken out by Troy. No idea on weight.

Few years back my neighbors son in Law killed a bear with a .40 S&W and 180 gr HP/FMJ mix. Two rds to the skull killed it. He was someplace in Western MT bowhunting when he was charged. I know very little about the incident, Size, Range, etc. Need to get that info. But he is NO pistol shot and somehow DID manage to kill a grizzly with a forty.

FN in MT
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BravoSector1
SOLD LNIB Glock 22 .40 S&W - $400 shipped
Replies
0
Views
63
BravoSector1
BravoSector1
JDR
Firearms Atlas Gunworks Nemesis V2 .40 S&W
Replies
2
Views
409
JDR
JDR
Old Man with Gun
Big Magnum Revolver, what is just right?
Replies
66
Views
1K
stefan73
stefan73
JR1200W3
Sidearms & Scatterguns Coating options on custom 1911
Replies
58
Views
2K
JR1200W3
JR1200W3
T
SOLD SPF - NIB 40 S&W Staccato XL - $2800
Replies
0
Views
178
TacosGigante
T
Top Bottom
Back