6.5 Creedmoor

Wormydog1724

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I’ve read through most of the pages here and think I have my answer, but I’d like to ask my question anyways.

I developed a load for my 6.5CM with Hornady 140gr ELDM, 41.9gr H4350 with CCI450, 2.224BTO,going about 2780fps. It always shot lights out.

I couldn’t find anymore of those projectiles in stock so I bought 500 Berger 140gr VLD Target. This morning I did a .2gr ladder from 41.0 to 42.0gr H4350, same seating depth, same primers as before. Every load shot like absolute dog shit. Like 2MOA at 100y. Unacceptable. I rechecked my gun, scope, mounts, and it’s all as before.

From reading some recipes on here it seems like maybe if I push these into the mid-42gr maybe even 43gr range I may have better results with this bullet/powder combo. There wasn’t any pressure signs at 42gr so I know I’m safe going higher, but I was just very surprised my normal load range with a similar bullet was so poor.

My barrel has just over 2,500 rounds through so it’s possible it could be done, but it was still shooting good with the 140gr ELDMs before I ran out.

Any input is appreciated!
 

Fishkat

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I’ve read through most of the pages here and think I have my answer, but I’d like to ask my question anyways.

I developed a load for my 6.5CM with Hornady 140gr ELDM, 41.9gr H4350 with CCI450, 2.224BTO,going about 2780fps. It always shot lights out.

I couldn’t find anymore of those projectiles in stock so I bought 500 Berger 140gr VLD Target. This morning I did a .2gr ladder from 41.0 to 42.0gr H4350, same seating depth, same primers as before. Every load shot like absolute dog shit. Like 2MOA at 100y. Unacceptable. I rechecked my gun, scope, mounts, and it’s all as before.

From reading some recipes on here it seems like maybe if I push these into the mid-42gr maybe even 43gr range I may have better results with this bullet/powder combo. There wasn’t any pressure signs at 42gr so I know I’m safe going higher, but I was just very surprised my normal load range with a similar bullet was so poor.

My barrel has just over 2,500 rounds through so it’s possible it could be done, but it was still shooting good with the 140gr ELDMs before I ran out.

Any input is appreciated!
I shoot two 6.5 Creed’s, one chambered for 130vld’s and the other with a SAMMI chamber i shoot 140 vld’s. Both usually give me groups around 3/8” at 100yds if I’m having a good shooting day.
The 140’s are loaded with 42.8 gr. of H4350 with twenty thousandth jump. I won’t give you the BTO measurement because that varies by up to about 30 thousandth depending on which of the comparators I use but the OAL is 2.872.
i wouldn’t give up on the vld’s but at 2,500 rounds the barrel might be thinking about retirement.
good luck.
 
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Wormydog1724

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I shoot two 6.5 Creed’s, one chambered for 130vld’s and the other with a SAMMI chamber i shoot 140 vld’s. Both usually give me groups around 3/8” at 100yds if I’m having a good shooting day.
The 140’s are loaded with 42.8 gr. of H5350 with twenty thousandth jump. I won’t give you the BTO measurement because that varies by up to about 30 thousandth depending on which of the comparators I use but the OAL is 2.872.
i wouldn’t give up on the vld’s but at 2,500 rounds the barrel might be thinking about retirement.
good luck.
I appreciate the input.

I measured my lands and they’ve eroded .06”!

Also there’s no way for me to get any closer to the lands than .08” because of mag length, yes .08”.

this is a Seekins Havak pro Hp1. Looks like it’s time to start looking for a new barrel instead of chasing this load and wasting time and components.
 

CavReconScout

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Not sure if you have read this article but it has some guidance on VLD seating depth.
 

Wormydog1724

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Borrowed some of my buddy’s 140gr ELDM’s, loaded up my standard load and boom, .8” group. I’ve burned about 80 of these Bergers and feel like I’m chasing a load that isn’t there. Just frustrating. Think I’ll just stick with what works.
 

Lunchbox27

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Borrowed some of my buddy’s 140gr ELDM’s, loaded up my standard load and boom, .8” group. I’ve burned about 80 of these Bergers and feel like I’m chasing a load that isn’t there. Just frustrating. Think I’ll just stick with what works.
I was gonna ask (how many rounds through the barrel), but seems like you already found a solution.

If you are really wanting to run Bergers, I would try going up while watching for pressure, or go down ( 40.5 range )
 

NamibHunter

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Borrowed some of my buddy’s 140gr ELDM’s, loaded up my standard load and boom, .8” group. I’ve burned about 80 of these Bergers and feel like I’m chasing a load that isn’t there. Just frustrating. Think I’ll just stick with what works.
Maybe i just got lucky, but I got good results with both bullets. Managed to get 0.5” five shot groups with the 140 Berger Hybrids with a very long jump, around 0.120”. Groups were only slightly better at a jump of 0.015”, perhaps 0.4”, but those rounds had to be single feed. [Needed more powder to stay at the same node with the bullet seated that long.]

I have three rifles that shoot well with bullets loaded to a very long jump, eye popping numbers. I also have one rifle that will not shoot anything well that is loaded into the lands. My impression is that the way the lands erode is not always perfectly symmetrical, and loading to a jam in such a situation can push the bullet skew.

But there is a second problem too: I don’t use high neck tension and i have seen that with ammo loaded to a jam, if you close the bolt and then eject the unfired round, and measure COAL or base to ogive, that you get different numbers. Scratch marks on only one side of the bullet. The camming power of the bolt is quite high, and will almost certainly reseat the bullet deeper, unless neck tension is intentionally very high. Soft seating sounds like a good idea, but it is not always the case. My experience is that the amount of “soft seating” varies in a worn barrel, and is not necessary consistent.

Shoots what works. No point in wasting barrel life! Training time is more valuable than load development time. And barrels are consumables.
 
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NamibHunter

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Just another comment about higher nodes producing different (and sometimes far better) results:

“If you are really wanting to run Bergers, I would try going up while watching for pressure...”

Yesterday i tried a different load in my MPA 6.5 BA, looking for a higher node. The chamber is throated for the 140 ELD-M bullet, and the user manual advised against using longer heavier bullets in this chamber, so decided to follow Masterpiece Arms’ bullet recommendation. [And they are cheap, compared to Berger and Hornady Atip, which is appreciated.]

Will refrain from publishing the load as the chamber appears to be min spec and freebore is short. I also picked a temperature sensitive powder, simply because i have it on hand. Not a powder i would recommend for any locality with large temperature changes between winter and summer. [I will have to vary powder charge as the Texas temps go up from 60 in early spring to 105 in late summer, and i realize this is not practical for most folks.]

Did a pressure test at 61 degrees F with one of the progressive powders in the Reloder product line which is known for delivering high speed, and eventually found pressure signs about 150 fps higher than what H4350 will deliver in this rifle.

Repeated the load 0.3 grains below max, and shot it yesterday at 400 yards at steel targets. Best 5 shot group was eyeballed at about 2”, typical result was 2.5” to 3” groups in a 13-15 mph wind. Could hit the little 3” plate every time, and had great fun! Very happy with that result (given my limited wind reading abilities) for a load that has not seen any detailed load development (looking for flat spots in the speed graph), or any attempt at positive compensation (PC) where barrel whip is exploited to look for a speed/powder region faster shots hit slightly lower on target.

ES was 22 and SD was around 6 fps, which for me is a much better than average result. Maybe i just got lucky, but the point i am trying to make is that sometimes there is a node higher (or lower) in the speed range that will work better, producing smaller groups. It is not guaranteed that a better ES will be observed, but if you get both useful PC and low enough ES to show up at a different node, you are in business. [I also know this high speed node and the unfriendly double base powder is going to reduce my barrel life. Might offset the money saved from using cheaper bullets, oh well! As always pros and cons.]

I shot a total of 25 rounds yesterday, barrel was cleaned, so cold bore shot was slow and it was deleted, leaving a total of 24. No other shots were deleted. I usually get SD numbers between 8-11 fps (sort of OK, but not great), and ES between 28 and 35 fps (too high for comp work) at the lower node.

Who knows if the change in powder was the main reason for the improvement, or the change to a higher node, but some experimentation (without burning out your barrel!) can be beneficial. Go look for those “other” nodes and see what they are willing to do for you...


072BC031-5FFD-4F3A-BA10-A0B93312DA26.jpeg
 
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woogie_man

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Anyone have any data for a 17" barreled creed? Not looking for blistering speed just accuracy and consistency. Finally able to start shooting again and need to get out and get started.

Planning on using h4350 for power and starline SRP brass
 

260284

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Anyone have any data for a 17" barreled creed? Not looking for blistering speed just accuracy and consistency. Finally able to start shooting again and need to get out and get started.

Planning on using h4350 for power and starline SRP brass
I am getting 2705 with RL16, Peterson SRP brass, CCI450, and the 143 ELDX out of an 18" Bartlein suppressed. Got 2733 with the 140 Accubond and the same charge of RL16. You should be able to get close with H4350.
 

260284

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The Starline brass has more capacity than the Peterson that I use. You should be ok starting at 41. I ended up at 40.9 gr in my 28" Bartlein with the 140 ELDM. I am running 2830 fps with that load.
 
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woogie_man

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Just grabbed a chargemaster lite, so hoping to speed things up over the single trickle unit.

Finally nice enough to get out and shoot again.

What weight of projectile are you guys seeing to work better in a shorter barrel
 

flyright

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120's, you'd think, but my friend is shooting 143ELDX's at around 2650fps from an 18" Bartlein. Groups are about .6 to 600 yds with many better than that and with a minimal load work up. He's strictly set it up for shorter range (300 yds or less) hunting so no more load development for his purposes. Got me really thinking about a SB 6.5.
 

woogie_man

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I loaded up some 143 hornady eldx and some 130 hornady eldm rounds. Charges were 41.0, 41.5, 42.0, 42.5 . Will see what happens.

Have to say that using a chargemaster lite makes loading rounds so much quicker and easier!


Now to wait for a decent day to go shoot. Sitting today at a lovely 65° but over 20 mph winds with gusts of over 35.
 

Fishkat

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I loaded up some 143 hornady eldx and some 130 hornady eldm rounds. Charges were 41.0, 41.5, 42.0, 42.5 . Will see what happens.

Have to say that using a chargemaster lite makes loading rounds so much quicker and easier!


Now to wait for a decent day to go shoot. Sitting today at a lovely 65° but over 20 mph winds with gusts of over 35.
Every day is a decent day, IMO to go shoot. I always realize my limitations when the wind is howling. One of these days my skills will improve, I’ll just keep trying.
 

toxic

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I shot some of my 47.8gr rl26 with the hornady 147 ELDm yesterday. This is all show from a PVA built ARC nucleus with a 26" barrel, with a griffin paladin 30 cal can. Average over 25 shots was 2985 with an ES of 22 and an SD of 7.6. Would obviously like to get those lower but it shoots as good or better than I'm capable of. .5" all day long at 100yds. I have yet to go to distance with it, but that velocity seems ridiculous, measured with a LabRadar so should be accurate.
 

NamibHunter

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I shot some of my 47.8gr rl26 with the hornady 147 ELDm yesterday. This is all show from a PVA built ARC nucleus with a 26" barrel, with a griffin paladin 30 cal can. Average over 25 shots was 2985 with an ES of 22 and an SD of 7.6. Would obviously like to get those lower but it shoots as good or better than I'm capable of. .5" all day long at 100yds. I have yet to go to distance with it, but that velocity seems ridiculous, measured with a LabRadar so should be accurate.
Just to confirm: What caliber/chambering, and how long is the barrel?

BTW: I maxed out on the 153 Atip at about 2700 fps in a Savage 6.5 Creedmoor. Heavy bolt lift and flat primers at 2730 fps, at 88 degF. Lapua bras, CCI 450 primers. Used RL-17, because i have a lot of it sitting around. It usually gives me 150 fps more than H4350, but VERY temp sensitive, so a winter and summer load has to be developed, which wastes time components and barrel life. [Not recommending RL-17 as there are better options, like RL26.]

Plan to try RL26 soon.
 

toxic

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Just to confirm: What caliber/chambering, and how long is the barrel?

BTW: I maxed out on the 153 Atip at about 2700 fps in a Savage 6.5 Creedmoor. Heavy bolt lift and flat primers at 2730 fps, at 88 degF. Lapua bras, CCI 450 primers. Used RL-17, because i have a lot of it sitting around. It usually gives me 150 fps more than H4350, but VERY temp sensitive, so a winter and summer load has to be developed, which wastes time components and barrel life. [Not recommending RL-17 as there are better options, like RL26.]

Plan to try RL26 soon.
6.5 Creemoor
26" barrel
Lapua brass
CCI #450
47.8gr RL26
147gr ELDm at 2.860"

This is thrown on Chargemaster 1500. The brass is hand annealed every other firing.
 
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NamibHunter

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6.5 Creemoor
26" barrel
Lapua brass
CCI #450
47.8gr RL26
147gr ELDm at 2.860"

This is thrown on Chargemaster 1500. The brass is hand annealed every other firing.
Thanks for the details sir. Had to double check. That is one impressive speed number.

I will try RL-26 soon. Looking forward to it!
 

BoulderE89

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Got my factory barreled action bergara hmr pro dialed in today!
6.5 CM
Hornady LP brass
Federal 210M primer
43.3 R16
Hornady 140g ELD
.04 off the lands, these bullets like to jump

30 shots
Ave 2830
SD 8
ES 26
6 groups of 5 shots had an ave of .57 moa
 

6MT

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Here is my 6.5CM load for a factory Sako Roughtech Range...

Brass: Lapua (SRP)
Bullet: Lapua 136gr Scenar-L
Primer: CCI BR4
Powder: Varget 37.2gr
Seating: .010" jump (ogive oal measurement: 2.281")
Barrel: 25" Factory Sako 1:8"
Velocity: 2723fps 10 shot Ave ES=9 SD=3.0
Environmentals: temp=+21c, R.H.=42% ASL=683m wind=n/a

This is a mild load showing only moderate velocity. I've stepped it out to 1100m, but unfortunately the limited scope spec's make it a difficult go beyond that. But I'm pleased because this is only a varmint rifle for me. But fun, none the less to experiment.


 
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FrozenMinnesotan

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I'm about to have my 24" 6.5x47 barrel reamed into a 6.5cm. I was getting 2776 with 36.8gr varget and 144gr berger. What should I expect going to cm? Using 140gr bergers
 

Toddlouis27

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670F3C52-680E-4E29-B136-EA27BD1A36D1.jpeg7BC331C6-DBF8-4F9E-9B01-D696153B6BAA.jpeg
6.5 creedmoor
Savage 12FV
135 grain a-tip
42.7 grains of reloader 17
COAL- 2.875
average velocity of 5 shots - 2933.
lapua small rifle primer and CCI 400 primers.
didn’t get any pressure marks at all, going to see if I can get close to 3000 FPS.
shot at 200 yards.
 

Lompoc

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I grew up there is why I ask.

There was a whole running thread on 6.5 staball. I'll have to look but I'm pretty sure thats what I used for testing.
Ya I searched it found one on here I loaded some starting at 42.5 thru thru 44.4 haven't been able to get out to dang.hot ty