I take it you're not a reloader then? You should start, it's fun. Paranoia, will destroy ya.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/KSKKvnA47aU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Last edited:
- Thread starter BigCheese1
- Start date
I take it you're not a reloader then? You should start, it's fun. Paranoia, will destroy ya.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/KSKKvnA47aU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
308 match ammo is way, way, WAY more "readily available" than 6.5 Creedmoor.
Though availability of Creedmoor factory match ammo is probably runner-up to only 308 and 223 match ammo.
Or maybe you'll get lucky and whatever you build will shoot Core-Lokts well...
Also: there is absolutely nothing "cheating" about the 6.5 Creedmoor (or its cousin 260). They make 308 functionally obsolete and most certainly redundant. Put another way, a guy with a 308 might want a 6.5mm for its superior drop and drift, but almost never will a 6.5mm owner want a 308 for its...um...0.044" larger bullet diameter?
Though availability of Creedmoor factory match ammo is probably runner-up to only 308 and 223 match ammo.
Or maybe you'll get lucky and whatever you build will shoot Core-Lokts well...
Also: there is absolutely nothing "cheating" about the 6.5 Creedmoor (or its cousin 260). They make 308 functionally obsolete and most certainly redundant. Put another way, a guy with a 308 might want a 6.5mm for its superior drop and drift, but almost never will a 6.5mm owner want a 308 for its...um...0.044" larger bullet diameter?
Disagree, while I love my .260, I'd never give up my .308 either. And there are plenty of 6.5 owners that continue to build, buy, and shoot .308's.
I'm honestly not being smart or sarcastic...but if you believe this to be true, you haven't done much shooting...have you? The wind will humble you terribly, superior ballistics or not.
I'm not going to tell you what to pick, but if it were me I would pick the bullet/caliber that would offer me the biggest advantage in wind.I'm honestly not being smart or sarcastic...but if you believe this to be true, you haven't done much shooting...have you? The wind will humble you terribly, superior ballistics or not.
No offense taken haha.. I understand why you say that. I have shot deer in Wyoming, elk in Colorado, and millions of dove, quail, ducks, pheasants, rabbits and squirrels in between. Most of my shooting has been done with shotguns, and I am just now getting a chance to get into this kind of shooting (precision stuff) So I am not necessarily "new" to all this.
I only said that I don't want to cheat myself because I read a post the other day.... where this guy went on and on about how its best to start with a 308 and learn and refine your skills, then go up to a 6.5 or something else.
Its all theoretical until it isn't. You don't know what's coming anymore then the next guy but its damn sure not Mayberry out the window dude. And, I think you forgot Katrina....
Clearly you've never been through a true natural disaster. Katrina saw mass lawlessness, even from the cops who were supposed to be protecting people. Looting was a major problem after Hurricane Andrew in my neighborhood in 1992 where we were without power for over a month, and had no way to reach the outside world for 3 months. We couldn't have called for help if we needed it. Food was a valuable resource that was hard to come by.
Clearly you missed the part where I mentioned natural disasters like HURRICANES as being real-world "SHTF" moments.
Rodney King was the closest I've seen to the archtype SHTF scenario where folks need weapons to defend their property and families on a wide scale.
I'd suggest your situation MUCH more realistic and possible than one where somebody resorts to battlefield ammo pickups...which was my entire point.
I never would have guessed that standard .22 ammo would be in short supply or gone from store shelves, powder and primers in short supply and the cost of everything thru the roof.
That being said it makes one re-think supplying various calibers especially the non-standard or mainstream once.
Its made me re-think a few things and get back into bullet casting to at least be able to produce some ammo. 30 minutes in a parking lot with some pliers and I can make bullets when the store shelves are bare.
There is not one magic caliber to own but the most popular and a few "standard" oddballs are good to have. You cant go golfing with one club and one rifle is limiting as well.
(6.5 no way)
That being said it makes one re-think supplying various calibers especially the non-standard or mainstream once.
Its made me re-think a few things and get back into bullet casting to at least be able to produce some ammo. 30 minutes in a parking lot with some pliers and I can make bullets when the store shelves are bare.
There is not one magic caliber to own but the most popular and a few "standard" oddballs are good to have. You cant go golfing with one club and one rifle is limiting as well.
(6.5 no way)
All that and a little more...
I don't always get post-envy, but when I do, it's over awesome posts like this.
6.5cm 7mm-08 and other 270 were all that was on our shelves during the shortage
So true its not even funny.. If shit hits the mother fucking fan, you will have what you have and hope you have lots of it.
That being said, it is relatively easy to form .260 Rem brass from .308 brass, you might need to neck turn, but thats really no big deal.
My vote would be either .260 or 6.5 CM. Realistically, either one I would trust out to and past 1200 yards.
Yeah, lots of .270 on the shelves over here too.
My 0.02... Based on my experience... the vermin (brigands, Rambo types, guys at the range with well accessorized ARs who talk about this kind of shit until my ears bleed, whatever... I hate them with a passion) often do cause mayhem, and usually die off very quickly. However, mass lawlessness is usually contained. All of the news surrounding the madness after Katrina was focused on an area around downtown New Orleans that you could have circled with a bike after 45 minutes of pedaling. The remaining 98% of the area destroyed, and I mean absolutely leveled, by Katrina (St Bernard Parish, from the Orleans Parish border east to somewhere past Biloxi) had very little looting, and virtually zero violence. And, of course, got almost no press and was the last to get assistance. Whoever posted that the body count was much higher than officially reported, this is certainly true. But to get away from all the killing all one had to do was start walking and get away from from it. I have as intimate a knowledge of this as can be had as I was there, as was a lot of my family. Potable water far eclipsed concerns about ammo and people banded together quite well, unless you were in the heart of New Orleans. If you need supplies at this point you better be prepared to work hard for them. So part of the answer here is choose where you live wisely, not just for resources but for who your neighbor is. I would rather be isolated with a geeky accountant who was prepared to survive and think things through than some he-man yahoo who was simply prepared to kill. And plan to be able to get to where you need to go in the event you are travelling when the SHTF.
After a SHTF event it is rare for the feces to keep flying for very long, especially for western countries. History indicates that official bodies, particularly at the federal level, are impotent with respect to LE during such events. Restoring services is more important to re-gaining order than LE anyway. Without utilities people have little faith in government and they will voice this loudly, at first, and at some point they will act. That is as obvious in Iraq and Ethiopia as it was after both Katrina and Sandy. And we don't need a natural disaster to to end services. We can look at the rolling brownouts related to Enron to see how pissed people can get and how quickly they are calmed down with attention to utilities. Just imagine a month without power and water over a large area, it would suck bad enough to cause some notable, and likely violent, civil unrest. However, I don't think I am naive in saying that most of America has a low tolerance for stupidity and it won't take long for good people to organize and bring order. Unless you happen to live somewhere with a profile similar to New Orleans, which requires an outside influence to stabilize. And this is assuming that outside help is even available. If not, those people are fucked.
Back to the ammo question... you better have what you need. As for battlefield pick ups, I'd rather not be in a battle to begin with. And I'm not sure I want to hang around post fire fight for any reason at all. I was once told that no matter where I go in the world I would be able to source 7.62 if the need arose. I thought this was pretty smart until I realized how unpleasant "sourcing" ammo actually is. Trust that you do not want to be in this position. I think 30-06 is America's most popular caliber over the last 100 years so there is certainly gobs of it out there. I am not going to stake my life on that fact.
After a SHTF event it is rare for the feces to keep flying for very long, especially for western countries. History indicates that official bodies, particularly at the federal level, are impotent with respect to LE during such events. Restoring services is more important to re-gaining order than LE anyway. Without utilities people have little faith in government and they will voice this loudly, at first, and at some point they will act. That is as obvious in Iraq and Ethiopia as it was after both Katrina and Sandy. And we don't need a natural disaster to to end services. We can look at the rolling brownouts related to Enron to see how pissed people can get and how quickly they are calmed down with attention to utilities. Just imagine a month without power and water over a large area, it would suck bad enough to cause some notable, and likely violent, civil unrest. However, I don't think I am naive in saying that most of America has a low tolerance for stupidity and it won't take long for good people to organize and bring order. Unless you happen to live somewhere with a profile similar to New Orleans, which requires an outside influence to stabilize. And this is assuming that outside help is even available. If not, those people are fucked.
Back to the ammo question... you better have what you need. As for battlefield pick ups, I'd rather not be in a battle to begin with. And I'm not sure I want to hang around post fire fight for any reason at all. I was once told that no matter where I go in the world I would be able to source 7.62 if the need arose. I thought this was pretty smart until I realized how unpleasant "sourcing" ammo actually is. Trust that you do not want to be in this position. I think 30-06 is America's most popular caliber over the last 100 years so there is certainly gobs of it out there. I am not going to stake my life on that fact.
I would like to agree with you regarding most of America having a low tolerance, however all you hear these days is to be tolerant. Once a situation (Heaven Forbid) occurs of a large scale nature again,the average American will be and sadly is clueless. I say this because for what ever reason the average American likes to do the ostrich effect. If it's not effecting me ok no big deal. Then when it happens everyone is to blame but the individual.
Gone will be the initial concept of debate as the victim will be dealt with rapidly and violently, and those who looked up to the man they deemed sensible and a leader will in turn be to stunned to respond accordingly and will in turn become victims themselves. Look at what took place in LA during the Rodney King riots, or Florida after the Hurricane hit, and recently New Orleans. When everyone ran to the gun stores like what happened in LA, they panic because they had to wait days because that was the law. The Korean vendors, took to the roofs and held down the fort, as many were veterans of the ROK Army, or Marines. They were able to hold out quite some time, and many columns still exist on the net .
Bottom line, if your running to the store to stock up and wait it out your already doing it wrong. Be it ammo, food, water. No I'm not a prepper, but I do have an obligation to provide and protect.
Food, and water will be the prime commodity, and people who once acted civilized will revert to the primal instincts to survive. You can bet your bottom dollar the gangs in the city will be a main force of extortion and hoarding should they get control of a food distribution point.
Once the shooting stops, you will have people coming to pick the bodies. Some will be armed others will have edged weapons, a few will be empty and look to pick up a rifle, handgun, shotgun, food, water, clothes, etc. I've witnessed it for two years, and if you think it won't happen during a dog eat dog situation your kidding yourself.
And like the previous post said. I'm in total agreement, you better have what you need it because when it's going down you won't be able to get it. If you want a better example picture yourself on a long trip taking the back roads to avoid traffic and you run out of gas because you didn't fill the tank. You have no homes, or stores in the area for a good 20 miles and you haven't seen a car pass you since you started your back road trip. You have no gas can, and it's starting to rain. To late to say I should have have or could have. Just my thoughts.
Just get the damn 6.5 and go shooting
These SHTF scenarios are always the same, someone thinks either (a) they will be home and ready for this big event when it does happen or (b) they will stand as an unstoppable force and kill anyone within a 1000 yards of their fictitious compound no matter what the opposition may be. Coming from my experiences, even an untrained teenager can kill the very best military trained individual. It's not so much oh how good you are but how fortunate you are for not getting hit. My SHTF issue will most likely be a major earthquake that shuts down local services for several weeks or months depending on severity. I can have all the damn loading supplies and powder in the state but if a house in the neighborhood catches fire during an earthquake, the whole damn neighborhood could burn down as the FD won't be able to move around anyway. Now you are down to what you can carry. If you think you are going to load up with 3000 rounds of .308 and other firearms stuff you are wrong. Food, water, and shelter becomes the priority and now your arsenal is nothing more than a pistol with 100 rounds or so.
These SHTF scenarios are always the same, someone thinks either (a) they will be home and ready for this big event when it does happen or (b) they will stand as an unstoppable force and kill anyone within a 1000 yards of their fictitious compound no matter what the opposition may be. Coming from my experiences, even an untrained teenager can kill the very best military trained individual. It's not so much oh how good you are but how fortunate you are for not getting hit. My SHTF issue will most likely be a major earthquake that shuts down local services for several weeks or months depending on severity. I can have all the damn loading supplies and powder in the state but if a house in the neighborhood catches fire during an earthquake, the whole damn neighborhood could burn down as the FD won't be able to move around anyway. Now you are down to what you can carry. If you think you are going to load up with 3000 rounds of .308 and other firearms stuff you are wrong. Food, water, and shelter becomes the priority and now your arsenal is nothing more than a pistol with 100 rounds or so.
Last edited:
One gun only? .22lr
The one lesson I learn after the last ammo frenzy after Sandy Hook was, common calibers are the first to go. .223/5.56 and .308 were cleaned out. That now has me questioning the conventional wisdom of sticking to common calibers. I saw a lot of 7.62x54 and 30.06. So my next rifle will be a cheap mosin with a few hundred rounds stored in a box.
I agree 100%. During the recent happenings many of the gun stores in my area were completly cleaned out of ammo. And trust me in SHTF it's going to be MUCH, MUCH worse. If you have a cartridge that you really like such as 7mm Dakota, 7.21 Firebird or 338 Edge or something common such as .223, .308 or 30-06, STOCK UP NOW on brass, bullets powder and primers so no matter what happens you have what you need. Also IMHO the best way to store reloading componants is as loaded ammo. I have ammo that I loaded over 30 years ago and it still shoots as well as it did the day I loaded it. I don't think this would have happened with 30 year old individual componants.
Agreed
Well being I've been retired and don't travel to the store much. I'm quite right to think I'll be home.
Nope, I sit on my own little spot in the woods and have no envision-ment of grandeur. But I do know who lives out in these parts, not worried about anyone coming up this way. Probably hard for you city folks to understand country living, but yup be like walking into the middle of deliverance minus the squeal like a pig.
I will agree to a very minimum there as seen it a times, heard the stories a few times during investigations. I never meant to shoot him, I only wanted to scare them. Happens in Law Enforcement a few times a year by all account.
You forgot to add how crappy the other guys shoots, and being able to control your fear.
Yup I would agree with you there, thats why a good hand pump is worth its weight in gold on a well. Last part I could see how some folks would have a problem, but like I said earlier if you wait till the situation is going on your in a bad way. Just depends on how long it will take you to realize that.
Oh by the way Squidly, ops I mean Sailor
Happy Veterans day to ya.Don't forget that when shtf you can use your 6.5 to source a 308/30-06/270/etc and ammo. Until then, youll have a badass 6.5 to pass the time.
Red Rider and throwing stars, lol….
Corpsman!!! Great Googly Moogly, your aces in my book fella. Good to meet ya.
Yes these threads are dumb, but the thing about internet forums is that not everything you read is exact science or even useful info. However you can glean a bit of useful info by skimming. I will say this, i have been looking around at ammo and components and have noticed a lot of times the lesser popular calibers are available while the more popular are sold out. So it is probably wise to have a broad variety of ammo at your disposal so you can still go shooting during times of shortage.
I went to the sporting goods store to kill time during peak panic buying earlier in the year. They were limiting .22, 9, 40, 45, 223, and 308 to 2 boxes per customer. The funny part was they had a whole bunch of fgmm 7.62x51 which you could buy as much as you wanted for $19.99 per 20.
As to the op i went to the local sorting goods store yesterday and the most plentiful supply of components were 6.5 cm brass and 140 gr vlds.
Entertaining and enlightening!! Relatives were the last shop owners left In their area during Rodney King riots. They had listened to their distant cousin about being armed, but did not heed my opinions on a proper ammo stash. They were able to protect their jewelry store and a shoe store until their ammo was depleted In a few days. Then their businesses were looted and burnt to the ground. They believed a dozen boxes for a handgun was good enough. Maybe it would have been if they had thr skill and fortitude to make esch round count.
I think in order to survive these kind of scenarios people to need to prepare. But, what isn't often said, is that the prepared need to band together and protect one another. Then your preparations can truly be effective.
Is it wrong for me to want this to happen?
Buy a 6.5 and enjoy it. Or better yet buy a switch barrel rifle system if you pocket book allows. Use can you 6.5 caliber for most of your shooting and have your .308 barrel/conversion for SHTF/End of Days Scenario when your 6.5 ammo is gone.
Since buying my .260 DTA SRS, I have rarely shoot my Tikka .308 rifle (and the Tikka is a great shooting rifle). The 6.5 calibers are just much funner to shoot for me.
Since buying my .260 DTA SRS, I have rarely shoot my Tikka .308 rifle (and the Tikka is a great shooting rifle). The 6.5 calibers are just much funner to shoot for me.
After blizzard Hannah, we name our blizzards up here, we were without power for 8 days. That was in '97, never even thought about breaking out the gear. Different story now, with the oil boom on, we are seeing license plates from all over the country. Our crime rate is catching up to the rest of you.
In a WROL scenario choose a caliber that is super popular. This means most likely a service cartridge.
This also might be a cartridge used by rebels or an opposing force. Don't discard a military coup and/or government going rogue on the people and see what ammunition they would
most likely be using.
Military cartridges have a smoother taper to feed reliably from machine guns and wet, dry, sand, rain, snow, mud, etc...
For the same reason weapons systems follow a loose fit directive (reliability under any conditions) and a tad more roomie chambers are used.
Stock plenty of it in different locations well packaged, water tight and concealed.
And don't forget the most powerful weapon is the human brain.
This also might be a cartridge used by rebels or an opposing force. Don't discard a military coup and/or government going rogue on the people and see what ammunition they would
most likely be using.
Military cartridges have a smoother taper to feed reliably from machine guns and wet, dry, sand, rain, snow, mud, etc...
For the same reason weapons systems follow a loose fit directive (reliability under any conditions) and a tad more roomie chambers are used.
Stock plenty of it in different locations well packaged, water tight and concealed.
And don't forget the most powerful weapon is the human brain.
Last edited:
I have a 6.5 Creedmoor and love it!!! I keep enough supplies around to load a 1000 rounds typically so not to worried about having to find ammo. With that being said in a real SHTF everything will be gone assuming you could even make it to a place to buy it.
With the current ammo shortage we went through earlier this year I found a couple of things interesting. I travel 40 plus weeks a year and visit gun stores and Cabelas stores all over the country. The most common rounds like 308, 223/556, 22LR where all sold out. However some of the odd ball rounds could be found, yes 6.5 creedmoor was around but in very limited and spotty, typically only in the lighter bullet versions. I did however notice two calibers that I could buy at anytime...30-06 and 270 where always available in every store I recall going into. Not necessarily match ammo but major brands and loadings.
It made me think a bit about things. When you have a newer or more rare cartridge you are pretty limited on sources however when you have an overly popular cartridge that everyone is looking for you have the same effect. I have actually thought about buying a 270 to have laying around. Very good round and super easy to find ammo for.
With the current ammo shortage we went through earlier this year I found a couple of things interesting. I travel 40 plus weeks a year and visit gun stores and Cabelas stores all over the country. The most common rounds like 308, 223/556, 22LR where all sold out. However some of the odd ball rounds could be found, yes 6.5 creedmoor was around but in very limited and spotty, typically only in the lighter bullet versions. I did however notice two calibers that I could buy at anytime...30-06 and 270 where always available in every store I recall going into. Not necessarily match ammo but major brands and loadings.
It made me think a bit about things. When you have a newer or more rare cartridge you are pretty limited on sources however when you have an overly popular cartridge that everyone is looking for you have the same effect. I have actually thought about buying a 270 to have laying around. Very good round and super easy to find ammo for.
I completely agree. 22, 308 and 223 is impossible to find. Everyone and their mother and all the mall ninjas stock up on it in a hurry. My 17 hmr was always to be found and same with 270 and '06. I think its crucial to have an oddball or two in the safe.
I just got done watching The Walking Dead when I posted this.... you can't blame me
Similar threads
