- Thread starter jbell
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CZ 455 DJ Custom build (Shilen Ratchet Selected Match)
Sightron 36X
SK Pistol Match Special
Average 6 consecutive 5 shot groups at 50Y =0.234”
Sightron 36X
SK Pistol Match Special
Average 6 consecutive 5 shot groups at 50Y =0.234”
Kidd Supergrade
Midas Tac 6-24
Center X
Average 6 consecutive 5 shot groups at 50Y =0.3613”
Midas Tac 6-24
Center X
Average 6 consecutive 5 shot groups at 50Y =0.3613”
Had a few brief moments and a light 6 O’clock wind (3:30-7:30 vrb 2-4 mph) , pulled the Vudoo, CZ457 and a 52B Bull barrel out for a 6x5 at 100 yards.
The Vudoo ran a .97” average.
The 52B Bull Barrel shot a 1.02 average.
And the 457 a 1.21 average.
Not a bad showing for a quick range session. I expected the Vudoo and 52 to perform better, but I’ve found that 40 degree Wx it takes more than 2-3 groups for the barrel to warm up. I didn’t take the time to let that happen today. These were shot with a 5 round warm up and then the 6x5. Really plead with the performance of the 457. I shot it using SK long range. Now for the next decent weather day...
The Vudoo ran a .97” average.
The 52B Bull Barrel shot a 1.02 average.
And the 457 a 1.21 average.
Not a bad showing for a quick range session. I expected the Vudoo and 52 to perform better, but I’ve found that 40 degree Wx it takes more than 2-3 groups for the barrel to warm up. I didn’t take the time to let that happen today. These were shot with a 5 round warm up and then the 6x5. Really plead with the performance of the 457. I shot it using SK long range. Now for the next decent weather day...
Simpletoms, welcome to the 6X5. I have all 3 rifles on the results. I would love to see some pictures of the rifles, especially the Winchester!
Thanks for the welcome. Amazingly enough, I’ve been a member since 08, but not a consistent contributor at all. I guess that’s changing for me. With the advent of Rimfire PRS and Long Range 22’s, the Hide is a great place for 22 precision, and I like how y’all have approached the lowly 22.
That being said, I’ve been shooting and collecting 22’s seriously for at least 10 years. I’m gonna work through the herd and post some more 6x5’s. So 6x5’s to come...
Anschutz 1827B and 2013
More 52’s
Sako Quad
and more...
To your question, here’s the 52B
a 200 yard 5 shot group. (No 50 at 200 yet)
A 6x5 with the 52B at 100 with two type of Eley. Trying to wring out a 6x5 that looks like the last two groups. Life goals
and here’s the 457
I was not initially impressed with the CZ as I own a 452, and owned a 455 with a Lilja. So I thought I knew CZ .22’s. This one is changing my mind. It’s a great rifle!
Anyhow, more to follow I’m sure and looking forward to the continued growth of LR .22’s!
Saturday was beautiful, got to spend a couple hours at the range. Chrono’d a couple of Creedmoor loads and put down a few 6x5’s. Two at 50 yards and one attempt at 100. Looking back at the beginning of this thread it’s encouraging to find improved numbers after a couple of years.
Shooting the stock CZ 455 VPT with a now ancient Bushnell Tactical 6-24
RWS Rifle Match
Calm & 62
Measured edge to edge and subtracted a measured bullet hole diameter from the target.
Average 0.5455
Average 0.470
100 yard Averge 1.433
Shooting the stock CZ 455 VPT with a now ancient Bushnell Tactical 6-24
RWS Rifle Match
Calm & 62
Measured edge to edge and subtracted a measured bullet hole diameter from the target.
Average 0.5455
Average 0.470
100 yard Averge 1.433
Attachments
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Middle Man, it is good to see you back here again! I have your 50 yard best group updated and you are now in the 100 yard results.
I got out to run a few rounds through the Vudoo and a few other rifles. It was a good day to shoot despite the cold. The sun was shining on the snow which made for a good mirage. I was able to see the wind at 100 yards like on a hot day. The winds were light from 2-3 mph on average but they were switching fast, in less than a second it would go from a full value L-R wind to a full value R-L wind. But I was able to stay on top of it for the most part at 100 yards (except where noted). Less than 10 of the 30 rounds fired today at 100 were with me holding center, the majority of the time I was either holding right edge or left edge of the target. In most groups I had to change my hold at least 2 times due to the switching winds.
I could not see the wind at 50 yards (the target was in the shade) so I just held on and hoped for the best.
Even with getting caught by the wind a few times I am happy with how today went, given the temperature and that I was shooting in new insulated leather gloves (Can’t wait to get them broken in!).
It is too early in the year for this shit! Check out the density altitude, these little 22’s really get pushed around in these conditions.
This is how you prep to go to the range when the temps are in the 20’s or below. To hell with loading magazines in these temps!
I could not see the wind at 50 yards (the target was in the shade) so I just held on and hoped for the best.
Even with getting caught by the wind a few times I am happy with how today went, given the temperature and that I was shooting in new insulated leather gloves (Can’t wait to get them broken in!).
It is too early in the year for this shit! Check out the density altitude, these little 22’s really get pushed around in these conditions.
This is how you prep to go to the range when the temps are in the 20’s or below. To hell with loading magazines in these temps!
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I’ve been shooting 6x5’s with several different rilfles (irregularly) for three plus years now. Even shot one with the Cmore red dot 10/22 I built for the kids ?. Had one .290ish group with the CZ 455 at 50 yards a while back. However, yesterday’s targets were the best averages I’ve shot to date.
I have your best average at 50 yards at 0.451” and today’s best I thought was 0.470”. Am I correct? I just want to make sure that Im not missing something
Looking back, I don’t believe I ever posted the target with that group...saw it in the filing cabinet this afternoon.
Yeah, I’m a dork... @jbell Pulled the sheet...from back in 2017...it wasn’t a 6x5 target, just three groups from a couple of rifles when I initially tested out Eley Edge...just had a box or two. I ended up purchasing a couple of bricks, but never really saw anything as good, group-wise as this first trial.
Interesting to note how different bullets cut holes...or perhaps it’s the paper. This paper was heavy bond resume grade stuff from the 1990’s, more defined holes, not a lot of grease ring.
Interesting to note how different bullets cut holes...or perhaps it’s the paper. This paper was heavy bond resume grade stuff from the 1990’s, more defined holes, not a lot of grease ring.
Yeah the kind of paperboy use for a Target makes a difference in how large of a hole the bullet makes. I used to only shoot heavy stock targets but I’m too cheap for that now. Ha
20 years working for the same company, I don't believe I'll be requiring any fine resume paper any time soon. Had a couple really calm wind days this weekend. Couple that with the fact I just picked up an H&R Model 12, Mark Penrod custom and it was time to shoot. The Model 12 shot really well. Ran a few 6x5's and all were sub moa at 100, but today's was a real winner. Averaged a .61" at 100 yards, ran it out to 200 yards and 10 shots prone yielded a 2.3" group. I'll take it.
Simpletoms, I am not sure how I overlooked this but I have you on the results now! That is excellent shooting and a super cool rifle! Mark is truly one of the best out there. What barrel is on your H&R?
Just a heads up to everyone:
I think I am going to start a new 6X5 thread for 2020, this one is just getting hard to manage with so many entries. I will bring over the past 3 iterations results like I have before to keep that data. But it takes a while to look through all the entries and update it, so I figured a new one on Jan 1 would be good.
I appreciate all the participation thus far and look forward to seeing everyone in the new thread.
I think I am going to start a new 6X5 thread for 2020, this one is just getting hard to manage with so many entries. I will bring over the past 3 iterations results like I have before to keep that data. But it takes a while to look through all the entries and update it, so I figured a new one on Jan 1 would be good.
I appreciate all the participation thus far and look forward to seeing everyone in the new thread.
Jbell, It's a Benchmark barrel. I've only started with this rifle. Picked it up last Saturday and have been blessed with good weather and time off since. I'll be shooting it again today. Might try some Eley Biathlon Match. There are only two things about the rifle that couple be better, the trigger and it's a single shot. That being said, the trigger is really good for an H&R model 12. Breaks clean at less than 1.5 pounds. My problem is I've been spoiled by Anschutz triggers. They are amazing. The single shot, once you've shot a Vudoo, it's hard to go back to single shot, but for this rifle I'm ok with it!
Merry Christmas and God bless you Mr J!
Cool. I keep shooting and shooting, but can't quite beat my older scores.
This will give me another chance. Thanks for doing this. Merry Christmas.
and i was just about to post the first 6x5 of the year ;-)
Happy New Year everyone !
@jbell I'll post it here and you can move it ? if not just let me know and i can repost it to the new thread when it is up
Sauer 200 STR (now with a GRS stock)
Eley Match.
50m
0-4.5 mph winds, mainly from my right
Nothing great but at least i havent forgotten everything after 6 weeks travelling.. !
this is what she looks like now.
Happy New Year everyone !
@jbell I'll post it here and you can move it ? if not just let me know and i can repost it to the new thread when it is up
Sauer 200 STR (now with a GRS stock)
Eley Match.
50m
0-4.5 mph winds, mainly from my right
Nothing great but at least i havent forgotten everything after 6 weeks travelling.. !
this is what she looks like now.
Good shooting and beautiful rifle.and i was just about to post the first 6x5 of the year ;-)
Happy New Year everyone !
@jbell I'll post it here and you can move it ? if not just let me know and i can repost it to the new thread when it is up
Sauer 200 STR (now with a GRS stock)
Eley Match.
50m
0-4.5 mph winds, mainly from my right
Nothing great but at least i havent forgotten everything after 6 weeks travelling.. !
View attachment 7213969
this is what she looks like now.
View attachment 7213970
good shooting, especially in 4.5 wind! and beautiful rifle.and i was just about to post the first 6x5 of the year ;-)
Happy New Year everyone !
@jbell I'll post it here and you can move it ? if not just let me know and i can repost it to the new thread when it is up
Sauer 200 STR (now with a GRS stock)
Eley Match.
50m
0-4.5 mph winds, mainly from my right
Nothing great but at least i havent forgotten everything after 6 weeks travelling.. !
View attachment 7213969
this is what she looks like now.
View attachment 7213970
If like to agree with you but then we would both be wrong(pardon the attempt at humor) considering wind, you won our first match!@Cuzz thanks !
The range is across a narrow valley in the mountains so the winds are always a challenge.
Nice guys, y’all are the first on the V4.0
Here is to a great new year to all!
Here is to a great new year to all!
Thanks J, I hope this is your best ever and thanks for all you do!
seconded !
Happy New year! Still at the range so I can update the averages when I get home.
Tikka T1X.
103.5 yards
Breeze from right to left.
Center-X
*EDIT*
Average Group Size - 0.68", 0.63 MOA
Best Group Size - .26", 0.24 MOA
Tikka T1X.
103.5 yards
Breeze from right to left.
Center-X
*EDIT*
Average Group Size - 0.68", 0.63 MOA
Best Group Size - .26", 0.24 MOA
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Press the yellow-orange post in the left side of window in Range Buddy and it will calculate average and adds details to the image.
Good to know that, thanks!
After this, I put up a new target at 50 yards, and I had abyssmal shooting. Wind was picking up and being erratic, and ended up shooting .35-.6" groups ugh. .9 MOA average, not even worth saving for now...
Great shooting littlepod! That 0.260” is going to be on top for quite a while I bet.
I was honestly surprised. I'm not good at reading such light wind, and no wind flags... so I just followed fundamentals and aimed at the exact same spot and woohoo. As you saw the other groups, a lot of rounds got carried by the wind.
Question for people, do you guys notice any sort of cold bore or weird shot irregularities on the first shot or two? Example... I shoot for a few hours, don't clean the rifle, pack up, stick it in my safe. Come back and shoot a few days later, out of the warm safe, back into the cold. First shot will be high, 2nd shot will be low, and then shots X to whatever will be on target. I'm not sure what exactly causes this... Lube/Dirt in the chamber that dries up when it's being stored?
I left my rifle sitting in the cold at the range on the table for 30minutes, came back and started shooting groups again, no weird high/low flyers.
This is my 6th time I've done cold bore, or first shot of the day bore measurements now. The first 5 times, 1st shot was 1.1" high at 100 yards, then shots 2-X were right on target. Today, first shot was high 1.1" and left .8", second shot was low 1.1" and left .8", then shots 3-100 were on target.
Some matches I do, there's no sighters / zero-check, so it's very first shot of the day is the first shot of the match. Would love to figure out the science on this so I can prepare my first shot on target.
Question for people, do you guys notice any sort of cold bore or weird shot irregularities on the first shot or two? Example... I shoot for a few hours, don't clean the rifle, pack up, stick it in my safe. Come back and shoot a few days later, out of the warm safe, back into the cold. First shot will be high, 2nd shot will be low, and then shots X to whatever will be on target. I'm not sure what exactly causes this... Lube/Dirt in the chamber that dries up when it's being stored?
I left my rifle sitting in the cold at the range on the table for 30minutes, came back and started shooting groups again, no weird high/low flyers.
This is my 6th time I've done cold bore, or first shot of the day bore measurements now. The first 5 times, 1st shot was 1.1" high at 100 yards, then shots 2-X were right on target. Today, first shot was high 1.1" and left .8", second shot was low 1.1" and left .8", then shots 3-100 were on target.
Some matches I do, there's no sighters / zero-check, so it's very first shot of the day is the first shot of the match. Would love to figure out the science on this so I can prepare my first shot on target.
@littlepod definitely see the same sort of coldbore issues. First shot is always 'hot' up to 100fs faster than normal.
My safe is a fairly stable 16 C and the air temp is usually lower (or much lower). Ive tried keeping ammo warm/cooling it overnight to ambient/letting the gun cool/cleaning/not cleaning/blowing fresh air through the barrel/etc.
working hypothesis is that the chamber and barrel dimensions change(expand) when heated by the first shots so that subsequent shots are slower. I think it will take much longer than half an hour for the gun to cool to ambient and the metal to contract again.
someone suggested that it may be due to small amounts of condensation in the barrel that are burnt off by the first shots - i haven't come up with a way to test this.. hummm i suppose i could try a cleaning run with a chemical dehumidifier ....
My safe is a fairly stable 16 C and the air temp is usually lower (or much lower). Ive tried keeping ammo warm/cooling it overnight to ambient/letting the gun cool/cleaning/not cleaning/blowing fresh air through the barrel/etc.
working hypothesis is that the chamber and barrel dimensions change(expand) when heated by the first shots so that subsequent shots are slower. I think it will take much longer than half an hour for the gun to cool to ambient and the metal to contract again.
someone suggested that it may be due to small amounts of condensation in the barrel that are burnt off by the first shots - i haven't come up with a way to test this.. hummm i suppose i could try a cleaning run with a chemical dehumidifier ....
I have had some barrels that show a large CB POI shift and then settle within a shot or two. I have owned one or two that show very little cold bore shift. Basically every barrel and ammo combo is different (as you are probably expecting to hear), but generally rimfire cold bore is high so what you are seeing is “normal”.
Just start tracking it by keeping every cold bore group you shoot, note on the target the conditions in which it was shot & the approximate round count since the last cleaning. After several range sessions you will see the pattern then you can start compensating for it and note the amount your holding off and the results. Basically your just accumulating your DOPE for your rifle, this is what being a good shooter is all about.
Just start tracking it by keeping every cold bore group you shoot, note on the target the conditions in which it was shot & the approximate round count since the last cleaning. After several range sessions you will see the pattern then you can start compensating for it and note the amount your holding off and the results. Basically your just accumulating your DOPE for your rifle, this is what being a good shooter is all about.
Hey JBell, do you use an app for measuring targets? i have been useing digital calipers and eyeballing center of bullet hole.
Cuzz:
I use OnTarget TDS. Inexpensive. Other software may be better. My question is how accurately you can measure with software? I doubt to 1 mil but probably more accurately than with calipers for which I, as stated previously, seriously doubt you can measure to better to 5 to 10 mils. Then to convert to MOA you have to measure distance to 1 part in a 1000, which for 50 yd = 1800" that is 1.8". All in all for my money any accuracy stated to better than 1 part in a 100 is to be regarded as ........
Rick
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Thanks Rick, I’ll look into on target
I just read about it on the high road, too complicated for me.
I am testing this CBS also, I hate it.
I think it might be related to barrel's inner surface
When I clean my silencer, I always think that the same gook remains in the barrel also, in thin layer. The stuff really is like cement, it dries into tough stuff.
I have now recorded the CBS few times and starting to investigate how to lessen it.
In my tests at 55yds the round does not always go up. Sometimes its pretty much center and sometimes to the left. I test the changes by recording MV, which has so far always been above average. The second shot below.
I am going to try snaking the barrell the next time and see if it works.
I also want to test what happens if I blow into the barrel, inducing muuch condensation into there.
Here is a table I just made, for fun I calculated average difference between the first and second shot velocity, 56fps. Quite alot.
As you see the cold lot showed even more difference but test results are slim so far on it and the lot has ran out.
I think it might be related to barrel's inner surface
When I clean my silencer, I always think that the same gook remains in the barrel also, in thin layer. The stuff really is like cement, it dries into tough stuff.
I have now recorded the CBS few times and starting to investigate how to lessen it.
In my tests at 55yds the round does not always go up. Sometimes its pretty much center and sometimes to the left. I test the changes by recording MV, which has so far always been above average. The second shot below.
I am going to try snaking the barrell the next time and see if it works.
I also want to test what happens if I blow into the barrel, inducing muuch condensation into there.
Here is a table I just made, for fun I calculated average difference between the first and second shot velocity, 56fps. Quite alot.
As you see the cold lot showed even more difference but test results are slim so far on it and the lot has ran out.
It was a bit gusty this morning.
Wind swirling from around the beginning of the left side berm
made it necessary to weigh down the chronograph. Range box and cordage
added enough ballast to prevent toppling the setup during the heavier swirls.
Browning 25 grain 17wsm rated 2600 fps
Savage Barrel Block Bmag and Sinclair bipod
Sent 5 to adjust the scope to the conditions, then 5 at a time at individual aimpoints.
Group sizes, measured center to center at widest point, in order as shot were:
2.4"
3.0"
3.2"
2.1"
1.8"
2.1"
1.4"
3.1"
2.7"
2.0"
at 200 yards, 1.4" best group, 2.4" 10 group average
Total vertical spread was 5", horizontal was 4 inches.
Turbulence from the wind over the berm didn't help.
Pretty decent results .
Wouldn't want to be a rodent on the the receiving end with this ammo.
Wind swirling from around the beginning of the left side berm
made it necessary to weigh down the chronograph. Range box and cordage
added enough ballast to prevent toppling the setup during the heavier swirls.
Browning 25 grain 17wsm rated 2600 fps
Savage Barrel Block Bmag and Sinclair bipod
Sent 5 to adjust the scope to the conditions, then 5 at a time at individual aimpoints.
Group sizes, measured center to center at widest point, in order as shot were:
2.4"
3.0"
3.2"
2.1"
1.8"
2.1"
1.4"
3.1"
2.7"
2.0"
at 200 yards, 1.4" best group, 2.4" 10 group average
Total vertical spread was 5", horizontal was 4 inches.
Turbulence from the wind over the berm didn't help.
Pretty decent results .
Wouldn't want to be a rodent on the the receiving end with this ammo.
Justin,
I have you on the 2020 results.
Cuzz,
I don’t use any software to measure targets, the versions I have tried are too inconsistent. I use dial calipers and measure outside to outside and subtract 0.222” for a CTC measurement. I have a lot of practice using precision measuring tools during my day job and am very comfortable with it.
I have you on the 2020 results.
Cuzz,
I don’t use any software to measure targets, the versions I have tried are too inconsistent. I use dial calipers and measure outside to outside and subtract 0.222” for a CTC measurement. I have a lot of practice using precision measuring tools during my day job and am very comfortable with it.
Thanks J, i dont like the having to use their targets and typical app problems, Ive used calipers for years, mostly reloading.
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