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PRS Talk Advice for New PRS Match Director

sczShooter19

Private
Minuteman
Aug 28, 2020
3
0
Hey guys. So at my range the guy that used to run the PRS Matches is leaving for bootcamp in September and he has appointed me to be the new match director.

I’m new to long range shooting and very new to PRS matches. I helped out yesterday at one PRS match that the range hosted and it got a good understanding of how they are run. The matches we run aren’t super competitive and are pretty low key, but the range is getting bigger and more involved and we are planning some bigger very competitive matches.

I’d just like some advice from y’all that have experience with PRS matches. Like how you set them up, safety concerns, responsibilities of a PRS director. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
Safety, safety and more safety. See Rifles Only rules on safety for a good example.

Match flow. If you can keep your match moving at a good pace. You're already ahead of the curve.

Don't get lazy on stage design. Shooting 3 or 4+ prone/modified prone stages gets boring in a hurry.

Do not cater to the top 10% of your shooters. The bottom 90% are who pays the bills and who will spread the word. If you keep the bottom 90% coming back on regular basis, hardly anyone will notice if some of the top shooters stop coming.

Run a great match and no one will care or even notice if you don't have a prize table. They can cause some drama.
 
Safety, safety and more safety. See Rifles Only rules on safety for a good example.

Match flow. If you can keep your match moving at a good pace. You're already ahead of the curve.

Don't get lazy on stage design. Shooting 3 or 4+ prone/modified prone stages gets boring in a hurry.

Do not cater to the top 10% of your shooters. The bottom 90% are who pays the bills and who will spread the word. If you keep the bottom 90% coming back on regular basis, hardly anyone will notice if some of the top shooters stop coming.

Run a great match and no one will care or even notice if you don't have a prize table. They can cause some drama.
Thanks man. Those are some great tips and things to think about! I’ve kind of been thrown right in, which is fine by me I just want to know what I’m doing. Thanks again!
 
Do not cater to the top 10% of your shooters. The bottom 90% are who pays the bills and who will spread the word. If you keep the bottom 90% coming back on regular basis, hardly anyone will notice if some of the top shooters stop coming.

In my mind, the fact that top shooters want to shoot your match is a positive. Help me understand how the opposite can be true.
 
In my mind, the fact that top shooters want to shoot your match is a positive. Help me understand how the opposite can be true.
[/QUOTE
I think he just means that PRS competitions appeal to a lot of beginner shooters. Yes there are PRS competitions that are very competitive but I think the majority are really a great way to help beginners get into long range precision rifle shooting. So you should have a balance. Maybe some stages are easy, some are hard. So the beginners are having fun but at different t stages the experienced shooters are challenged as well.
 
In my mind, the fact that top shooters want to shoot your match is a positive. Help me understand how the opposite can be true.

I mean the top 10% in general, whether it's just your local guys or a handful of national guys. If they go somewhere else, someone will step in to replace them. We see it year after year in our club. We've seen growth from 40 shooters per match in 2018 to 130 shooters per match with a wait list this year. Our match director makes sure the matches are fun and accessible to the bottom 90% of shooters. That grows the customer base. The new guys bring guests, who then become shooters. In general, by us, the other top shooters don't bring guests because all of our friends are already shooting.

For the record, I'm one of the top 10% in our club series.
 
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Our match director makes sure the matches are fun and accessible to the bottom 90% of shooters.
I get the fun part, which I equate with challenging. Others equate that with easy. Can't please everyone.

Don't understand the accessible part. Does that mean well advertised so people who haven't shot but are interested know where to go?
 
@308pirate Our match director does a good job of mixing things up, both prone and positional. If there's a lot of movement on a stage, the targets are a little bigger. If there isn't a lot of movement, the targets get a little smaller. He does a lot of one big and one small target on stages. Or one of those sets at each distance.

We run all 90s stages. The way our MD runs things, allows the newer guys to get hits while still presenting a challenge for that top 10% to separate themselves. It also allows for a progession from the bottom to the top.

That's the challenge, I feel MDs have, is creating that pipe line to get new shooters in the door and keep them coming back. Theres always going to be a top 10% but if your bottom 90% shrinks you start loosing your shooter base.
 
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Hey guys. So at my range the guy that used to run the PRS Matches is leaving for bootcamp in September and he has appointed me to be the new match director.

I’m new to long range shooting and very new to PRS matches. I helped out yesterday at one PRS match that the range hosted and it got a good understanding of how they are run. The matches we run aren’t super competitive and are pretty low key, but the range is getting bigger and more involved and we are planning some bigger very competitive matches.

I’d just like some advice from y’all that have experience with PRS matches. Like how you set them up, safety concerns, responsibilities of a PRS director. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Safety first and Rotor nailed it:

“ Do not cater to the top 10% of your shooters. The bottom 90% are who pays the bills and who will spread the word. If you keep the bottom 90% coming back on regular basis, hardly anyone will notice if some of the top shooters stop coming.”

Also, spend time recruiting RO’s that understand long range shooting. Let them go to the prize table as well or otherwise recognize them.
 
Stage ideas:

Target sizes:

PRS Rules (see Appendix 2 for Match Director info):
 
Regarding stage design and keeping it accessible to newer shooters while also challenging to top shooters, somewhere I recall a discussion of this on this site, but just didn’t find it this time around.

Bottom line is that the consensus seems to be that a COF should be designed so that top shooters can get 90%+ of the available points if they shoot well. While at the same time, newer shooters should be able to get 40-50% of available points on the average. This is easier said than done, but is part of the fun and challenge of being a MD.
 
@308pirate Our match director does a good job of mixing things up, both prone and positional. If there's a lot of movement on a stage, the targets are a little bigger. If there isn't a lot of movement, the targets get a little smaller. He does a lot of one big and one small target on stages. Or one of those sets at each distance.

We run all 90s stages. The way our MD runs things, allows the newer guys to get hits while still presenting a challenge for that top 10% to separate themselves. It also allows for a progession from the bottom to the top.

That's the challenge, I feel MDs have, is creating that pipe line to get new shooters in the door and keep them coming back. Theres always going to be a top 10% but if your bottom 90% shrinks you start loosing your shooter base.
Gotcha thanks for the explanation. Sounds like you have a good MD. Don't burn him out.
 
People are gonna bitch about something. Don't take it personally
 
People are gonna bitch about something. Don't take it personally
This. This is true.
Many a time after a match, someone will sidle up and tell me they had a good time, but...maybe next time...(insert personal opinion about running a match here). Usually it’s about some stage that they did poorly on and how they would have made it easier for people like themselves, but if you don’t take things personally (and it’s sometimes hard not to) there is sometimes good information that you can use to make your matches better.

My favorite was a stage with shots at 800 yard targets where you could see barbed wire in front of the targets when looking through your scope. The wire was 200 yards in front of the targets. One seasoned shooter complained that he missed three shots because he hit the barbed wire and his 6 Creedmoor was such a flat shooting machine that this was totally possible. He was totally serious. I’ll admit that I laughed in his face at that one.
 
Coming from another discipline, the top shooters are always going to be the top shooters. Making a stage harder for the top shooters exponentially increases the difficulty/time for the mid-pack and below. The balance is making the match difficult enough for the top shooters while allowing the mid-pack shooters an opportunity to at least think they have a chance to compete.
 
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I run a small local match on a square range. There is some good advice above. When we first started, the first couple of matches were certainly learning experiences. The first one was a big turn off to some people IMO because there was way too much waiting, and not near enough shooting.

The second one had a better flow, but marred by targets going down because we threw together some new target hanging methods and didn't test them enough before the match. It's inevitable to have a target or two go down in a match, but every effort should be taken to minimize this. Stopping the match for target repairs really sucks.

Learn how to make a match flow efficiently using the range layout that you have to work with. Max shooting, minimize excessive waiting.

With my range, I am limited to about 5 or 6 stages. I usually do 4 positional, and 1 prone, and sometimes throw in a couple of prone shots in with some of the positional stages.

Make sure and have a solid sore keeping method, even if your match is a low-key type of thing. I have seen some club level matches that require you to keep your own score, and turn them in to the MD after the match. I do not prefer this method, especially if you are charging people money to shoot a competition. Even club level matches are important to a lot of shooters, and they want to feel confidence in the score keeping method and match results.

Like others said above, you will never please everyone. I try to cater my match to the mid-section of shooters that I usually see come to my matches. I like to see the top local shooters shoot somewhere around 70-80% of max points. That way if a super badass pro shooter comes, it might still be a decent challenge to him, without being too difficult for the newer shooters. Good luck, and don't burn yourself out running and setting up matches.
 
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im just going to throw things out in any order that we try to do/have learned and im sure ill forget some...

we shoot for an 80-85% winning % of hits...some do 90-95%...just have to find what you prefer

loose hang every target so they move...in club matches, there might be some less experienced shooters spotting if doing self RO'd squads...we use the D-M steel key locks pretty much 100% besides some specialty stuff like KYL racks...if the match location is dirt, the t post hangers have been great, we may lose a post in a match, but we usually leave them high enough it only takes a couple minutes to drive down and put the target hanger back on the part left in the ground...no messing around with bent bolts, washers, and wrenches...since going to the t post hangers our target failures have gone down dramatically vs rubber strap/firehose + bolts...the straps and bolts just didnt survive long inside 500 yds unless the target had a stem to get the bolts away from the strike face

if using any kind of bolts, it helps for the target to have a stem w/ bolt holes, to get the bolt/strap area away from the strike face...plates with the bolt holes cut right in the strike plate never survived long, especially inside 500 yds...the smaller/lighter the target, the harder it will be on the hanger/bolt system

targets inside 500 yds, we do 1/2"...we have 2 field/ranch ranges we use and the majority of the stages are 300-600 yds, we started with 3/8" and thru the year we had some cracks and breaks....havent lost a 1/2" yet

targets outside 800 are all 1/4"...they ring better and move easier...with the 3200 fps and under 30cal mags limit, they have all been solid for 3 yrs now...they even move well when hit with a 223 slinging 77-90s

we used to buy various targets like coyotes, bobcats, etc....they are quite a bit more expensive to replace...if you have one break and go down, and you dont have the same target to put up, it can change the difficulty of the stage quite a bit for the remaining shooters...this year we started doing basically 4, 6, 8, 10" circles/squares and then 12" circles and 66% ipsc's for 800 to 1100...we can keep a few extras of each size/shape for the cost of one animal shaped spare

we try to run every squad with 6-8 shooters...less than 6 and there is hardly ever a break between spotting/scoring/moving, more than 8 and it can really start to drag if every squad isnt on the ball

we run every stage the same time, or very close to the same...we try to fit the stage to that time, not set the stage, then figure a time...some of our locations do 120s and others do 100s...but in the past, we've been to places with a 30 or 60 sec stages followed by a 2minute stage, and everything backs up on the 2min

randomized/alternate scoring stages, for example, stages where a random miss cost you a 0 or 1 lucky hit gains you 5x a normal point...people generally dont prefer these, especially the more consistent top half shooters...we've all been to matches that have them and theres always some grumblings about them, no matter how well the shooter does on them. some MDs like them to randomize and spice things up, thats their call. In the clubs we set up we rarely (maybe never?) have done a true KYL where a miss gets you 0, it doesnt encourage newer shooters to try for the smaller targets when a miss wipes out the points they just got, ive seen the paper kyl sheets to back it...newer shooters will shoot 1-2 of the dots and take their points or worse, they miss shot 1 and their whole stage is done...we have done miss = loss of points and restart, with a round cap, or you have to hit a target to bank points, etc...we typically use our 10, 8, 6, 4, 2" KYL rack around 400-450 yds as a hit to move or a 2 shots per positional stage which works as a pretty good separator for the top shooters and allows the mid/lower tier shooters to get points on the bigger plates

we try to set every stage as 2-3 shots max per target or per movement...so a stage with only 1 target would have 3-5 movements, and a stage with 1 position may have 3-5 targets...and combinations similar

squad leaders when self RO'ing...a solid group of experienced core shooters helps a bunch with flow...with a newer club there may be some growing pains. i typically give new shooters 2-3 stages to get a feel for it, then they can rotate into the scoring/timing roles. i generally wont have them spotting on a longer range stage or something harder to call, but regular stages they will be spotting also...making sure shooters know there is an order or someone needs to be always ready is key...nothing sucks time like a shooter finishing and everyone else is standing around with nothing in hand and unprepped for the stage...have fun, goof off, be safe...but be efficient

we try to never make spotters "guess" about calls...for example, if we know targets are a further or on a brush line with no dirt splash around, we make sure they move very easy...or we move the target so the bullets will impact dirt and give a splash to show a miss...shooters have mentioned they dont like iffy scoring stages where hits dont show much on target and misses with no real call, can just as easily be counted as "hits", because no splash around the target...for us, the target either needs to move almost without a doubt, or have a splash area around it...relying on sound feedback doesnt always work depending on how close stages and targets are in relation to each other

targets set to show no misses, like on a brush line or in tall grass.......this is a tough one and the MDs call...being able to spot trace or make a calculated guess correction is a skill IMO...but no shooter likes to send 10 rounds at 700 yds and not see a thing, what did they actually learn or gain? if we set something like this up, it may only be a few shots on a stage or a closer range target where wind is less of a factor and its more focused on the shooter being able to hold that plate vs nailing a wind call...fairly difficult stages w/ no splash feedback generally hammer newer shooters from what ive seen

if an MD does a specific skill testing stage, make sure the stage setup actually forces the skill to be used...a holdover stage for example...make sure the targets are small enough to actually test the hold over skill...ive been to a match where the targets were so big/tall, you could use the first target correction and hold it at top edge of all the rest and never miss one...kinda pointless lol

im out of suggestions off the top of my head that havent already been mentioned in other posts lol
 
im just going to throw things out in any order that we try to do/have learned and im sure ill forget some...

we shoot for an 80-85% winning % of hits...some do 90-95%...just have to find what you prefer

loose hang every target so they move...in club matches, there might be some less experienced shooters spotting if doing self RO'd squads...we use the D-M steel key locks pretty much 100% besides some specialty stuff like KYL racks...if the match location is dirt, the t post hangers have been great, we may lose a post in a match, but we usually leave them high enough it only takes a couple minutes to drive down and put the target hanger back on the part left in the ground...no messing around with bent bolts, washers, and wrenches...since going to the t post hangers our target failures have gone down dramatically vs rubber strap/firehose + bolts...the straps and bolts just didnt survive long inside 500 yds unless the target had a stem to get the bolts away from the strike face

if using any kind of bolts, it helps for the target to have a stem w/ bolt holes, to get the bolt/strap area away from the strike face...plates with the bolt holes cut right in the strike plate never survived long, especially inside 500 yds...the smaller/lighter the target, the harder it will be on the hanger/bolt system

targets inside 500 yds, we do 1/2"...we have 2 field/ranch ranges we use and the majority of the stages are 300-600 yds, we started with 3/8" and thru the year we had some cracks and breaks....havent lost a 1/2" yet

targets outside 800 are all 1/4"...they ring better and move easier...with the 3200 fps and under 30cal mags limit, they have all been solid for 3 yrs now...they even move well when hit with a 223 slinging 77-90s

we used to buy various targets like coyotes, bobcats, etc....they are quite a bit more expensive to replace...if you have one break and go down, and you dont have the same target to put up, it can change the difficulty of the stage quite a bit for the remaining shooters...this year we started doing basically 4, 6, 8, 10" circles/squares and then 12" circles and 66% ipsc's for 800 to 1100...we can keep a few extras of each size/shape for the cost of one animal shaped spare

we try to run every squad with 6-8 shooters...less than 6 and there is hardly ever a break between spotting/scoring/moving, more than 8 and it can really start to drag if every squad isnt on the ball

we run every stage the same time, or very close to the same...we try to fit the stage to that time, not set the stage, then figure a time...some of our locations do 120s and others do 100s...but in the past, we've been to places with a 30 or 60 sec stages followed by a 2minute stage, and everything backs up on the 2min

randomized/alternate scoring stages, for example, stages where a random miss cost you a 0 or 1 lucky hit gains you 5x a normal point...people generally dont prefer these, especially the more consistent top half shooters...we've all been to matches that have them and theres always some grumblings about them, no matter how well the shooter does on them. some MDs like them to randomize and spice things up, thats their call. In the clubs we set up we rarely (maybe never?) have done a true KYL where a miss gets you 0, it doesnt encourage newer shooters to try for the smaller targets when a miss wipes out the points they just got, ive seen the paper kyl sheets to back it...newer shooters will shoot 1-2 of the dots and take their points or worse, they miss shot 1 and their whole stage is done...we have done miss = loss of points and restart, with a round cap, or you have to hit a target to bank points, etc...we typically use our 10, 8, 6, 4, 2" KYL rack around 400-450 yds as a hit to move or a 2 shots per positional stage which works as a pretty good separator for the top shooters and allows the mid/lower tier shooters to get points on the bigger plates

we try to set every stage as 2-3 shots max per target or per movement...so a stage with only 1 target would have 3-5 movements, and a stage with 1 position may have 3-5 targets...and combinations similar

squad leaders when self RO'ing...a solid group of experienced core shooters helps a bunch with flow...with a newer club there may be some growing pains. i typically give new shooters 2-3 stages to get a feel for it, then they can rotate into the scoring/timing roles. i generally wont have them spotting on a longer range stage or something harder to call, but regular stages they will be spotting also...making sure shooters know there is an order or someone needs to be always ready is key...nothing sucks time like a shooter finishing and everyone else is standing around with nothing in hand and unprepped for the stage...have fun, goof off, be safe...but be efficient

we try to never make spotters "guess" about calls...for example, if we know targets are a further or on a brush line with no dirt splash around, we make sure they move very easy...or we move the target so the bullets will impact dirt and give a splash to show a miss...shooters have mentioned they dont like iffy scoring stages where hits dont show much on target and misses with no real call, can just as easily be counted as "hits", because no splash around the target...for us, the target either needs to move almost without a doubt, or have a splash area around it...relying on sound feedback doesnt always work depending on how close stages and targets are in relation to each other

targets set to show no misses, like on a brush line or in tall grass.......this is a tough one and the MDs call...being able to spot trace or make a calculated guess correction is a skill IMO...but no shooter likes to send 10 rounds at 700 yds and not see a thing, what did they actually learn or gain? if we set something like this up, it may only be a few shots on a stage or a closer range target where wind is less of a factor and its more focused on the shooter being able to hold that plate vs nailing a wind call...fairly difficult stages w/ no splash feedback generally hammer newer shooters from what ive seen

if an MD does a specific skill testing stage, make sure the stage setup actually forces the skill to be used...a holdover stage for example...make sure the targets are small enough to actually test the hold over skill...ive been to a match where the targets were so big/tall, you could use the first target correction and hold it at top edge of all the rest and never miss one...kinda pointless lol

im out of suggestions off the top of my head that havent already been mentioned in other posts lol
Some really good finer points made here. I agree.
 
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last Club match i shot (not one I had a hand in setting up) with an actual KYL...1”, 3/4”, 1/2”, and 1/4” @ 100 yds

I shot it backwards from small to big lol

If the kyl’s go sub moa, there’s likely only the top 5% of the shooters who have any business shooting at them if the shooters actually “know their limits” and that’s if it’s a prone stage...if it goes anything positional, it’s way less than that....years of matches to Support that with evidence


3B5F74DA-0A6A-4A61-B312-18E2031D1D17.jpeg
 
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Another thing I forgot is we never paint targets fresh...it can give an advantage to a squad based on the type of stage or difficulty depending on where they start...something with progressively smaller targets it’s a huge advantage to see your fresh splashes if you’re one of the first shooters or a long stage with variable winds, makes it easier to locate your impact and correct to center for more room for error...if another squad happens to start on a stage with relatively easy wind calls or larger targets where being centered up isn’t a big deal, they gain nothing, then get nice and shot Up targets with less feedback for the more precise stage later on
 
Okay, my advice comes from a competitors standpoint so if there is something I am way off base with then please forgive my ignorance, lol. First of all, I've only read one piece of advice so far that I disagree with, so you've got a great starting point here. The part I disagree with is the painting of targets as an advantage. I believe there is a point, based on the number of shooters that match, where painting the targets prior to the match is the only way to make sure the target is still visible by the end of the day. We had a back to back weekend with a border wars match on Saturday and a club match on Sunday where we used some of the same targets. There were at least 3 targets on Sunday that had zero paint and took me twice as long to engage due to not being able to make out a defined edge. Just food for thought from a competitor.
As others have said, mix your stages up as much as you can based on what you have available to you, for example: positional or prone, vary your time limit, size of targets, vary your prop, # and size of targets, and even get wild (safely) on some stages where you have to draw cards for your target or place your ammo in a different location than your shooting. That variety keeps people excited about what you'll do next, even if it's just that one special stage.
As others have said, do your best to keep a good flow. This means keeping the squad sizes similar instead of having 3 squads filled and a 4th with the leftover 4 shooters, this will create a log jam. Also, try and keep a gap of some type between the stages/target arrays so you don't have squad A waiting on squad B to finish shooting at targets in the same area as you.
Listen to your shooters and have a thick skin, some will bitch for the sake of it, but plenty will have insightful information on what is a hit and what just isn't working. Your gonna have some stages that rock and you can use again and you'll have some stages that suck and you want to forget about. Learn from these experiences and you'll be in good shape. Our local MD, Shawn, does an incredible job of managing by wondering around. He drives around from stage to stage and squad to squad and engages with the shooters and spectators about their day, thoughts, trials & tribulations, and general thoughts on the COF. There is nothing that will keep people coming back more than that level individual attention. It also helps him have the information he needs to make the next COF that much better. North Texas is as fortunate as it comes to have someone like that running matches for us. I hope this info helps you out some on deciding where to concentrate your efforts as a ne MD. Just the fact you made this post and are humbly getting this advice shows a lot about your character and your desire to get it right. Thank you.
 
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Read your course of fire/stage brief to yourself after you’ve typed it out. Then read it again. Then print it and have another person read it. Make sure you’ve described the targets correctly and you’ve typed the correct par time. That’s so in case you wrote red circles are the targets and not the red squares you’re actually supposed to engage. Or you wrote the or time as 115 instead of 1:15. Every shooter on one stage getting 115 seconds instead of 75 seconds like you meant will totally bog a match down.

Proof the stages. That’s where you will find how things fall apart. Get your ROs and shooting buddies to hear the stage brief and shoot the stage as they take it. Make notes on what you need to clarify and define.

Sturdy targets have already been talked about. If multiple stages share an impact zone, or you can’t go downrange without going cold on multiple stages, then a target going down will really slow things down. Shooters understand an occasional target falling. It happens. But if it’s repeatedly happening then that target hanging method has to be changed.

Match flow is a big deal. Shooters understand there will be some waiting. But too much waiting or down time will turn people off. 6-8 shooters per squad like was posted above is about perfect.

There will be a learning curve. Explain that to the shooters at the shooters meeting/safety brief. Be willing to accept criticism but know what is constructive and what is just bitching. I know some guys I like to shoot with but hate ROing when they’re shooting. They just like to bitch to bitch. Ask for them to message you their thoughts after the match.
 
Another thing: If you’re planning to start shooting at 0800, go to the range the few mornings prior to match day and see if you can see targets at 0800. Some ranges are completely fogged in at that time and you won’t be able to start until later. If that’s the case, don’t get shooters there at 0700 then have them stuck waiting. So know your range.

Also in knowing your range, think about where the sun will be. As squads move through the stages will half of the squads be shooting into the sun the whole day, while the other squads have the sun behind them? Finding and shooting backlit targets is tough, while the other squads have the sun making the targets almost glow. One match we walked up a road shooting stages then came back down the road. Sun was in our eyes almost the whole day. As we sat there talking about how poorly we were doing we noticed a stage our whole squad struggled on earlier was now having hit after hit called by the RO. We looked out and noticed the sun had the difficult to find targets just glowing. Everyone will have a tough stage while someone else gets it a little easier. Make sure the whole match doesn’t turn that way.

As far as painting targets, you may find that it’s easier to paint something that’s not getting shot. Painted plywood or plastic strips affixed to the T-posts will last longer than a painted target. An orange cone to the left of the target and a blue barrel to the right of a target can also easily define which target is for which stage. Those are examples but you get the idea.

If you’re using multiple colors of paint, make them really different. Red paint and fluorescent pink can look very similar, especially in shade.
 
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Speaking of those top 10% shooters or even the expericed mid pack guys. Don't be afraid to drop the hammer on them if they start taking liberties with the cof or trying to manipulate things to their advantage. Nobody likes to shoot a 6 off a barricade, only to find out after the match that others got a 10 by shooting off a bipod through or beside it. Just make sure it's a level playing field for everybody.