Advice on Predator gun..

[RanchhandTCR]

Hey guys, If I can get some advice on a new predator gun Id appreciate it.

Im on a budget for another preadator gun since I turned my R700 Varmint in 22-250 into a 260 for precision shooting, now I need to replace it with another gun a prefferably lighter since hiking all over the desert from stand to stand with a 14lb gun not all that fun. My local gun store/feed store has a Savage in 243 win its the 11FXP Hunter with a Nikon 3-9X40. Do you guys think I can get over the ugliness of a savage? I liked to trigger and that it has a Detachable magazine, decent bolt, and a ok stock, but Im plan on using it for my coyote gun, and p dogs. Ive had remington and still love them put Id like to try something else, im not one to have the same of number of guns with the same action? ive done alot of research on the 243 and some say its only a 1000 round barrel, I find that hard to believe. But I will be reloading for this rifle. Any input, or suggestions greatly appreciated. I dont plan on keeping the 3-9 for long but I will use it for a while just to try it out.

 

[shooter.dm]

I thank its around 1500 rounds. For predators I like the .204 ruger iv taken foxs at 500 and 600 yards with one

 

[xdeano]

A 204 is a great fox gun. Id say pick up another 22-250, you know they work on coyotes. Either that or the 243.
Xdeano

 

[RanchhandTCR]

The .204 is proably a gun I will never own, just dont like them. I like the 22-250 but it affected by the wind easily but thanks for the responses.

 

[Sniper260]

22-250 is my go to for predators. My team all shoots 22-250 for our competitions. Personally I dont own or ever will own a savage. Nothing wrong with a 243 either... less barrel life... when it comes down to it my opinion is think about how far you will be shooting predators.... if your really not going out further than 400 yards I think 22-250 is the best medicine...

 

[predatornut]

My experience with the 243 is it is harder on fur than the 22 flavors if it matters to you. Bullet selection can help, but I still pick my 22-250 when fur is prime. For a budget choice don't overlook the Howa 1500/Weatherby Vanguard. It's a good solid rifle that is as accurate as any factory rifle I've shot. Not as many aftermarket accessories as the Savage, but you can find what you need if you look.

 

[RTH1800]

I agree that I will not own a Savage. I cannot imagine not liking a .204 or 20 TAC, if you have hunted with one. They are sure killers to very long range with any good or even fair hit, little noise, no recoil and flat outshoot a 22-250 for trajectory and wind drift. Have you tried one?

 

[steve123]

I agree that I will not own a Savage. I cannot imagine not liking a .204 or 20 TAC, if you have hunted with one. They are sure killers to very long range with any good or even fair hit, little noise, no recoil and flat outshoot a 22-250 for trajectory and wind drift. Have you tried one?

For me it's 204 over 22-250. 204 = Less recoil, less noise, less in reloading components, less drop, less wind drift. Alright and less energy, but c'mon how many of us take 400Y shots on yotes???

20-250...now your talking!

 

[tomcat mv]

Don't overlook the good old 25-06.

 

[RTH1800]

Steve, I agree with all you say about the .204's and am building a 20-250 on a Surgeon action as soon as the barrels arrive. I have had great luck with the 204 to 600. Instant killer.

 

[RTH1800]

tomcat,
The big .25's are sure killers but blast keeps many from doing precision work when shooting coyotes day to day. Hard on fur... might be a better wolf CTG??
I shot the big rifles, (.25-06, 270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag.) on coyotes for years from the mid 60's to about 2000 or so. Now, I use the 20 and .22 cals and do better shooting than ever.

 

[Cascade_Sherpa]

Are you stuck on a bolt gun or would you consider an AR? For varmint and prairie dog shooting its really nice to have that quick follow up shot(s) when you need them. And not that the calibers you are considering have very much recoil, but a lot of the recoil inertia is taken up by the bolt cycling in an AR style rifle, allowing you to keep the sight picture when shooting. A fast twist barrel in .223 could have you shooting the 75 grain Amax or 80 grain bergers.

In my opinion you could never go wrong with a .243 or its AI variant. I've always had a soft spot for that caliber.

John

 

[TRAAV]

I think it would be hard to run a 75 or 80 Amax out of a AR15 due to length of the bullet and mag length

 

[Creature]

My main coyote rifle as a thinner contour barrel and is super light. The rifle I use for p-dogs has a heavier barrel to handle quicker rates of fire. I wouldn't turn down a Savage if you could get a smokin deal. Otherwise I'd probably look for something else. I use a slow twist CZ 527 in .223 and shoot coyotes with 40gr Vmax's, works great and is a dream to carry/shoot off hand. I also have a FNH PBR in .308 I shoot them with 110gr Vmax at 3200.

Don't overlook .308, the 110gr Vmax is wicked on coyotes. I gut shot the one below and when I walked up on him he had pulled his own guts out and had them in his mouth.

 

[xdeano]

You guys have to look at bullet construction a little bit too. The 204 bullet construction is made for a prairie dog, low penetration and highly explosive. The only way i'd go with a 204 is if i could run the 50-55grn bergers. Then you're just could just as well go with a 22-250 because you'll be shooting about the same velocities. I also wouldn't weed out the 223, but the 22-250 is just a hair better. You can get by with the 75grn hornady otm's in an ar, it takes up a lot of case. The amax on the other hand is a bit to much for the AR mags. If you want to single feel it'll work. I can tell you that the 223 with a 75g will put a coyote down pretty quick.

xdeano

 

[Cascade_Sherpa]

I've often thought that a 22-250 with a custom 26" fast twist barrel (something that would stabilize an 80 gr bullet) would be the ultimate predator gun; I'm not sure why the factory 22-250 barrel twists have always been to stabilize a 55 grain bullet or less. Its almost a shame to waste all that horsepower to get a 35 or 40 grain bullet to 4000 feet per second.

 

[RTH1800]

A 14 twist 22-250 will really shoot well up to 60-62 grains, depending on BC. The heavies are great for long range, but for 0-400, which takes in 99%+ of most of my and others coyote killing, the 55's are faster, flatter and kill quicker.
The 32 grain has not failed me in the 204 or 20 Tac to 500 and beyond, ever. Every solid hit has been an instant, in the tracks kill. But only on just about 75 coyotes. Just have not seen it fail.

 

[xdeano]

it will... i like them dead when i pull the trigger, so i can start working on the second or third coyote. i dont want to have to watch the first one to make sure he dosnt get up, or waste another bullet and time on him. i want to be moving on to the next one.

xdeano

 

[RTH1800]

Dead, in the tracks kills are where the varmint bullets shine. I get runners as the norm with the 77 smk in a 223. I still shoot it in my AR and just move on to the next one. Great for LR, just not instant kills like the 32 grain 20 cal.

 

[shooter.dm]

Also the .204 has a barrel life longer than the 22 250. The 22 250 has no advantage shooting the same weight bullets

 

[Rade1MOA]

remington 700 varmint, had the barrel cut from 26 to 22 inches....58gr v max is hell on coyotes

 

[EasternNChunter]

I had a Savage 22-250 that literally shot one hole groups. I put the NIKON Predator scope on it and loved the combo. Turns out predator hunter is MUCH more difficult than I had originally thought. Hunted for months and all I called in was a fox. I had the wireless electronic calls, shakey rabbit decoy and wore all my turkey camo head to toe. Anyway, the rifle was sweet!

 

[cypriss32]

Im doing a 223AI shooting 55-75gr bullets.

 

[xdeano]

I wouldn't mind doing a 223AI with an 8 twist pushing 75grn amax at around 3K. Or a 22-250 with the 75's.

xdeano

 

[Sniper260]

My sako 22-250 shoots 52 grain berger FB varmint bullets with reloader 15 like a champ. Every yote ive shot has dropped dead.

 

[RTH1800]

When loaded to similar pressures I am not at all sure barrel life is better on my 204 than 22-250. Mine shows considerable erosion at 1200 rds, on a bolt gun.

 

[Wyfox]

If you reload and save fur my vote is the 204 with 40gr Bergers, I've killed hundreds of fox and coyotes with mine. If you just want to kill Yotes and don't save fur the 22-250 or 243 is the choice to go with. Take a look at the Howa rifles or the Weatherby Vanguards, great bang for the buck.

 

[korykhunter]

I have a 17rem, 19 Calhoon, 223 Rem, 22-6mm Imp and 243 for my varmint collection. IMO the 17 and the 19 are a little small for the yotes but the critters will know the difference between the other three. I've also owned the 22-250 and seen many 220swifts in action lots of respect for the accuracy of the 22-250 but my favorite is still the 223. Not sure if your trying to save pelts but the secret seems to be keeping your speed down under 3400 fps or using small frangible bullets. I love the 40gr VMAX in my 223, a little N120 really gets them movin.

 

[my human host]

When loaded to similar pressures I am not at all sure barrel life is better on my 204 than 22-250. Mine shows considerable erosion at 1200 rds, on a bolt gun.

The 204 barrels I've seen go bad (2) did so somewhere between 2500 and 3000 rnds. Some guys claim significantly higher round counts and I can't prove otherwise.

I'm with Xdeano all the way. Nothing against the 204, I just prefer a little more thump.

 

[RanchhandTCR]

I had a 22-250 before it was a remmy 700 varmint, and shot nice but I got tired carrying a 12 pound rifle around, and I had difficulty reaching coyote past 450 yards with it in the wind. Ive blasted coyotes with my 40 S&W and my 30-06 but I fiqured the 243 would have a lil more reach by mid winter we have shot all the dumb coyotes and have to deal with the ones 600-700 yards out siting on top of the snow watching my every move.. But I appreciate all the responces guys! Id love to have a Howa and put their mag system on.

For the .204 Guys, Ive shot my friends .204, Im not saying its a capable cartridge but when you deal with the amount of wind we deal with and the distances we try to shoot the .204 is just not my cup of tea. Id like to get an AR one day but Its not on the budget right now.

Id do reload I used 50g Vmaxs and benchamrk, and it never made it thru the coyote, and I used speer that I founds and they just disenigrated.

 

[xdeano]

RanchHand,

I know exactly what you're talking about by mid winter, it's the same up here and you have to go bigger to retain enough energy to do a good job at a distance. I've had really good luck with hornady 87g match and sierra 85grn game kings spitzers and 85grn sierra HPBT, on fur if that's what you're after and they should be stable with just about any factory tube.

KoryKHunter,
I think you're right, if you keep your velocities down to that 3400fps range you'll yield much better results on fur. That's what I was running my 50grn noslers in my 22-250 and people thought i was missing something on the velocity.

my human host,
Those 80's really opened my eyes on 22 cal.

xdeano

 

[RanchhandTCR]

Its a hard choice because I know what the 22-250 can do and has done for me and thats excatly why im in a dilima because I know after 500 yards Im stretching the 50 grain bullets, and I dont feel like having to carry my 260 with me for the farther shots. I dont really hunt for fur, I hunt more to keep my livestock alive plus I enjoy the challenge. I shot some real nice coyote last december during a coyote calling competition, and did not get home in time to skin them that night and was going to skin them the next morning. Well mother nature had other plan it snowed so heavy and was too cold to skin them(can only do it outside) Id left them and they were stuck in the bed of my truck untill I broke the axe out by january.. The 243 winchester sounded like a good round that would not be to harsh on the pelts but able to reach out and touch them when they make faces at me thinking they are far enough...

 

[steve123]

Steve, I agree with all you say about the .204's and am building a 20-250 on a Surgeon action as soon as the barrels arrive. I have had great luck with the 204 to 600. Instant killer.

A few months ago I put a 20x47L barrel on my tactical rifle. 3830 fps with the Berger 55's was the load I settled on with a quick workup, I stopped workup because our spring had been ridiculously windy and I got busy with other projects. It turns out I have to slow the load down because I got a few mid air blow ups last time out. I'll tell you this though, a .38 BC bullet at 3830 fps is awesome in many ways! One of which was a Rockchuck I shot in Wyoming recently, went Helicoptering off a rock at 427Y, .

A nice guy at another forum sent me some Blackhole polymer tipped 55's to try out, BC probably in the .43 range if I were to guess. They have a thicker jacket and might be perfect for yotes. He wrote a post about them in his 20-250 over at Saubier.

 

[xdeano]

This would be the only way i would use a 20 cal on coyotes. 50-55grn bullets. Ive heard a lot of good things about the heavy 20s. But itll come at a price. Barrel life will be chopped down with it being so overbore.

Xdeano

A few months ago I put a 20x47L barrel on my tactical rifle. 3830 fps with the Berger 55's was the load I settled on with a quick workup, I stopped workup because our spring had been ridiculously windy and I got busy with other projects. It turns out I have to slow the load down because I got a few mid air blow ups last time out. I'll tell you this though, a .38 BC bullet at 3830 fps is awesome in many ways! One of which was a Rockchuck I shot in Wyoming recently, went Helicoptering off a rock at 427Y, .

A nice guy at another forum sent me some Blackhole polymer tipped 55's to try out, BC probably in the .43 range if I were to guess. They have a thicker jacket and might be perfect for yotes. He wrote a post about them in his 20-250 over at Saubier.

 

[RanchhandTCR]

Well guys thanks for all the advice and responces, but I walked into the gun shop today and lord behold sat a DPMS flat top for 800 bucks.. I thought about it for a good couple of minutes then when another guy wanted to look at it, I said Ill take it.... I have now officially bought my first semi auto rifle... now I got to decide on a good optic...