I went with the FDE and the new butt stock along with the QD mini rails and rear mount. I can get black moleskin for a few dollars if I decide the cheek piece isn't to my liking.
- Thread starter bh-ltr
- Start date
I went with the FDE and the new butt stock along with the QD mini rails and rear mount. I can get black moleskin for a few dollars if I decide the cheek piece isn't to my liking.
Not sure I'd like that rail on the fore end that far back. I think I'd hit my hand on it more than I'd like. For now the HK hooks work for me and they are pretty dang bullet proof and trust worthy. I've never had a standard swivel break on me but I've never really got a lot of confidence out of them either. I highly doubt I'll ever break an HK hook though. 
I like FDE as well thats my #2 choice but I also very much like having a black gun that isn't a "black gun". I've never been a fan of em.
I like FDE as well thats my #2 choice but I also very much like having a black gun that isn't a "black gun". I've never been a fan of em.
Have you ever used a weapon with HK hooks for any period of time before, as in carried it and used the sling ? I ask because I have as have others I work with and no one likes them. Unless you're shooting your AICS like a AR /carbine I dont see how ones hand would hit it or even be in that vicinity, the balance point is right in front of the magazine so even off hand, your hand shouldnt be near the rails.
here is one reason I am not a fan of the HK hooks. I know they should work better with small eyelets but thet still manage to unclip themselves and or the gates on them stay open. Plus they scratch your gun up and make noise/rattle.
here is one reason I am not a fan of the HK hooks. I know they should work better with small eyelets but thet still manage to unclip themselves and or the gates on them stay open. Plus they scratch your gun up and make noise/rattle.
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I've not used them a lot but I've been humping this rifle around the house quite a bit and I've been getting ready with it quite a few times and I've never run into an issue yet. The only thing that bugs me is that the rail would be there. If there was a better solution to flush cups I'd be game. I'm also not a fan in that that front rail is only screwed into the plastic to the best of my knowledge. If that is true then that would concern me a bit.
Also I've been using a biathlon sling too which involves a lot more flinging around and what not to get in and out of it... So far no big issues. They are some big beefy HK hooks and its kinda hard to get them into the sling connection points. Its even harder to take it off. I can't imagine them coming off accidentally as its kind of a bitch to get them off.
Also I've been using a biathlon sling too which involves a lot more flinging around and what not to get in and out of it... So far no big issues. They are some big beefy HK hooks and its kinda hard to get them into the sling connection points. Its even harder to take it off. I can't imagine them coming off accidentally as its kind of a bitch to get them off.
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OK, horse meet water
. Keep an eye on them as they WILL at some point hose you over if you use them for a period of time. Do some google-fu on the HK hook and you will see what I am telling you is indeed an identified issue. If you're gonna use them I'd recommend you run an elastic keeper over the gates of each hook or wrap some 100mph tape around them, they have a way of coming off when your not holding the weapon and the only way you find out is when you have to pick your gun up out of the dirt, I speak from experience on this one.Well if it turns out to be a problem all I need is to call Victor and order the quick mount flush cup conversion and then get the quick clip conversion for my TAB gear sling. Easy solution only takes a little time and money. I'm hoping I don't have to figure it out but for now its on there and done. Not going to change anything else after I finally get to shoot it tomorrow.
I'm hoping I don't have to figure it out but for now its on there and done. Not going to change anything else after I finally get to shoot it tomorrow.OK, horse meet water
Tell ya what when you get yours all set up let me know what you think of the front mount. Mainly what i wanna know is does your hand hit it in positional shooting? Do you prefer the front cup to be toward the muzzle end of the rail or toward the butt? How confident do you feel about the connection strength to the stock side for the sling? If you're happy with it then perhaps I'll swap out.
~Brett
I'll go out on a limb here as the location looks to be in the same spot as the flush cups location on my KRG chassis, which I have had no issue with.
Did you do any reading up on HK hook issues as I suggested?
Yea seen a few reports from people and I'll take your word on it if you like it when you have it in hand. My rifle is also already getting scratched up a bit from my practice and getting used to it (but that adds to its character). Drops don't add to character but the dents they create can serve as good reminders. Thankfully all I need to buy is some flush cup swivels and I just slip them onto my sling and I'm done. Nothing is sewn into it. Don't even have to buy a conversion kit like on a lot of the TAB slings.
~Brett
Thankfully all I need to buy is some flush cup swivels and I just slip them onto my sling and I'm done. Nothing is sewn into it. Don't even have to buy a conversion kit like on a lot of the TAB slings.~Brett
Ok ok the QD portion for the stock is ordered and I've sent an email to Rifles only cause they don't have a conversion kit for just the qd attachements on the site.
Got the viperskins installed after a little modification with a file. Going to go back and smooth out the modified area so it looks a tad cleaner. What I noticed that probably keeps the AE skins from being a straight bolt on to the AICS is the thickness of the viperskins compared to the AI skins(at least with my Bighorn action). The AI skins are very thin where as the VS are beefy. I was able to close and fire the weapon before moding the skin but there was a just a tad of travel downward left in the bolt. There is no doubt that it was in battery but it wasn't all the way seated against the chassis. Because the VS are thicker, you have to remove more material below the actual bolt cut out in the chassis. If it was tapered, like the AI skin are in that area, it would probably work no issues. With that said, the modification is not that bad and is easy to do.
So far , I really like the VS for the fit and feel, it is like holding a different gun as the ergonomics of the VS are way more friendly. I added the flushcup rails to both sides and the rear mount along with the version 2 butt piece. I put the TAB sling on and cuffed up and for me it works fine,no issues with where the rails are on the stock. If you like to wrap your hand around the stock, the rails actually give you something to grip. They could be located a bit closer to the muzzle I suppose but given where the balance/CG point on the weapon is, and if you use a bipod on the sling swivel, they feel like they are in an ideal spot to me.
Just want to say that I had a great experience in dealing with Michael from viperskins and I'd recommend the skins to anyone looking to change to somethin more comfortable.
So far , I really like the VS for the fit and feel, it is like holding a different gun as the ergonomics of the VS are way more friendly. I added the flushcup rails to both sides and the rear mount along with the version 2 butt piece. I put the TAB sling on and cuffed up and for me it works fine,no issues with where the rails are on the stock. If you like to wrap your hand around the stock, the rails actually give you something to grip. They could be located a bit closer to the muzzle I suppose but given where the balance/CG point on the weapon is, and if you use a bipod on the sling swivel, they feel like they are in an ideal spot to me.
Just want to say that I had a great experience in dealing with Michael from viperskins and I'd recommend the skins to anyone looking to change to somethin more comfortable.
I got to thinking about what you said about the sling mounting points so for shits and giggles I tried moving the QD rail to the furthest most point on the skins even though there is only one mounting point there. Luckily, the screw hole on the rail is right behind the QD hole so it can be secured and the rail does not move/rotate when loaded. I wouldn't put anything else on the back part of the rail even though it seems solid and ideally, if you have a smaller piece of QD pic rail, I'd go wit that. Or you can cut the pic rail down if you dont like having the extra rail.
I attached the QD sling to the rail and it holds the full weight of the weapon without moving/shifting and it allows you to get your hand to right behind the Harris bipod mount if you like to get your hand that far out. So if you want the QD further out you have options.
I attached the QD sling to the rail and it holds the full weight of the weapon without moving/shifting and it allows you to get your hand to right behind the Harris bipod mount if you like to get your hand that far out. So if you want the QD further out you have options.
Victor Company has a replacement piece that goes into the exact same location as the HK hook thing that came with the rifle. Check out this link:
Victor Company USA
~Brett
There is an attachment point on each side of the buttstock(see pictures above)
So I've got the QD change out stuff ordered on Friday night. Victor Company shipped the stuff on Saturday and it looks like it should be delivered tomorrow. Then I ordered the flush cups from TAB gear to slip onto my sling. Then poof I'll be all converted over.
~Brett
~Brett
Quite interesting yet still kinda scary. After removing the HK hooks to try and remove any possibility of droppage I think I'll probably go with the two points of contact and extra strength. I'm still a bit surprised that no one has ever put the flush cup toward the other end. So on the two screw location but with the cup toward the butt of the rifle.
~Brett
I think that if you did that you would find it hard to use the sling for shooting stability, it would effectively be for carrying/securing the weapon to you. Give both orientations a try and see what works for you.
Well once all has arrived I'll have a biathlon and a rapid adjust sling that I can switch between quickly. I really like the idea of using the sling around your body and putting your off elbow into it while shooting from a barricade. if I didn't have a couple screws in that rail that would be an issue I'd bet.
Is it just me or does this platform seem to get lighter and lighter the more you fling it around? I'm not sure if I'm just getting minutely stronger or if its just that I'm getting used to the center of gravity points and the platform is just becoming less awkward to me.
~Brett
Is it just me or does this platform seem to get lighter and lighter the more you fling it around? I'm not sure if I'm just getting minutely stronger or if its just that I'm getting used to the center of gravity points and the platform is just becoming less awkward to me.
~Brett
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What sling are you using (hopefully something from TAB) and do you find that the non rotation features work properly with it?
I'm using the TAB RAS sling. The non rotation cups,IMO, are great for the front of any system that uses QDs as it keeps your sling from getting all twisted up. For slinging up it ensures you're not getting any unneccessary/wanted rotation or twists. It does require you to insert the QD in the cup so it only moves in the range you want it to though. I like it when the front QD is used on the right side of the weapon and the rear QD on the left side butt stock as it has a limited range of rotation and the induced twist stays there even after you you unsling.
Huh so you have the sling attached on opposite sides of the rifle or you're talking about opposite sides of the QD cup? I'm glad to hear that the anti rotation works properly with the TAB stuff. I was worried that the QD insert would have to be a special one with matching anti rotation features in it. I've never had anything with QD cups on it before. However my QD conversion from Victor Company arrived in the mail today. I've got a Biathlon now and some QD swivels and a RA sling on the way. They are supposed to arrive on Friday. Here's hoping they arrive in time. I've also ordered an Atlas bipod cause I may as well change ALL of the dynamics of how the system shoots before this class!
~Brett
~Brett
This video shows what I am talking about. The only difference is he uses a flush cup on the bottom of the rifle instead of the right side as I described but the concept is the same.
Well shit. Tried to remove the screw that I locktited into the hole to plug us (under Victor Company's recommendation) and when I tried to remove the screw the metal insert broke loose and now I can't mount it to the left side of the stock where I'd like it to be. Perhaps I'll put it on the right but that wouldn't work as good for the biathlon.
Superglue/epoxy the metal insert back into the skin
PS: I'd send michael a email while your at it.
PS: I'd send michael a email while your at it.
Already sent him an email and he's ALL over it. First attempt was to try a bit of heat first might try a dab of glue next but will need to be really careful with that!
~Brett
Victor company is replacing the stock sides of the pieces that the inserts slipped in. I'm going to install a flush cup rail on either side and I'll see what I think. I like flexibility and if I'm going to have something on there that can cut up my hand under recoil I may as well have symmetrical cuts! I don't want any lopsided cuts on my hand that just wouldn't look "tacticool" enough. Mainly I just want to work on other positions and get every advantage I can with the sling as I've found that it makes a big improvement in my shooting when off hand. After watching TAB gear's RAS video I think that it would be really nice to use when shooting off a barricade! Being that I'm kind of a math geek I'll probably shoot a few groups with the sling mount on either side and then do some statistics based process control and see if there is a statistical difference between the sides.
~Brett
Mainly I just want to work on other positions and get every advantage I can with the sling as I've found that it makes a big improvement in my shooting when off hand. After watching TAB gear's RAS video I think that it would be really nice to use when shooting off a barricade! Being that I'm kind of a math geek I'll probably shoot a few groups with the sling mount on either side and then do some statistics based process control and see if there is a statistical difference between the sides. ~Brett
Ok so I'm a moron. After taking my loctite and putting a drop on some paper and letting it run its GREEN loctite. I'd used this for years on scope bases and what not and things always came off fine with a bit of heating. I'd done the same when trying to get the screws out of the sides of my stock sides. Applied some heating to the center screw by heating the allen wrench with a soldering iron to release things. However the green loctite is WAY too much to be used in this location. Michael Victor said that he ran some other tests on his latest production over night with BLUE locktite and everything works as it should. He also states that just leaving the screws in there loose doesn't usually run into any issues. I just didn't like how loosely they went in and that they didn't have anything to tighten onto. However even though I'm a douche Michael Victor is taking care of the situation and making me whole on a short time schedule. I can't say enough good about the way he does business and their communications!
~Brett
~Brett
Michael has really been a stand up guy in my limited experiences with him and the product. It's great to get the level of product support that he provides.
Yes Green or Red loctite will have this effect. Blue loctite only... if you need it at all.
Thanks Papa. I try to do everything I can to help our customers and friends have a positive experience. I'm thankful I can add something to our sport.
Looks like the other rail piece is supposed to get here Friday. Hopefully USPS doesn't dick things up and not make it on their scheduled day like they have been lately... Seems like as of late they arrive a day after they estimate it will arrive. Oh well though if it doesn't make it I can get the current skins back on and go there with the HK hooks for now.... The Atlas bipod showed up today and its all on and ready to go. Should be a fun weekend coming up!
~Brett
~Brett
Well holy crap color me HAPPY! I wasn't sure what I was going to think of the Atlas Bipod. I've been pretty happy with my Harris bipods and I thought that the slow deployment on the legs compared to Harris was going to kill it for me. I found that the slower leg deployment was aided by the fact that the length setting was more precise and a bit easier to carry out to the exact height that you want. I also felt that the lower center of gravity of the spigot mount and/or combined with the Atlas has given me a more stable platform from which to shoot.
I also bought the 3" leg extensions as i much prefer the 9"-13" Harris model when not shooting from the bench (I only use the 6" to 9" when bench shooting). Considering that the Atlas heights are 4.75"-9" I felt like I was going to really prefer having the setup be at 7.75"-12" as it more closely resembled the 9"-13" I preferred. I was wrong. Turned out to get to the closest target toward the bottom of the hill I had to tilt the legs forward 45 degrees to get low enough and then didn't ever use the full extension to get to the target at the top of the hill at 780 yards. After taking the extensions off I was able to get onto all of the targets with the legs at 90 degrees.
The B&T mono-pod for the AICS platform is also much improved over that of the swivel mount version. The push button to lock it into the stowed and use positions was very welcomed! I also found that clicking the monopod into its free swiveling position and using it as a hand hold in intermediate positions allowed me very fast acquisition on targets at varying distances on the timed events.
I spent about 11 hours today with this platform with a little time taken out to clean the rifle and to eat lunch. Not a whole lot of time was spent standing up away from the rifle. I was so comfortable with the platform I never really felt the want or need to get up and take a break. Bout the only time I got up was when we were in timed sequences and had to start back from the rifles and race to the firing line and load before shooting.
In the timed portions the AICS platform worked very well for me! I found that when we were supposed to just run to the firing position and be the first one to put a bullet on a single target that single loading was the way to go. However once we had to engage multiple targets the magazine was the way to go because it made for much faster follow up shots. I believe with a bit more practice and more muscle memory on where the magazine slot is that this difference could be diminished.
The AICS platform while very good as is it was made great by the Victor Company products. The grippy cheek rest was WAY cooler than it had any right to be. I honestly didn't expect a whole lot of difference from it. I'm not too sure that it made a ton of difference in the accuracy of my shots but it did mean that my face was still welded to the rifle and I KNOW that it saved me time on follow up shots. Even if it hadn't saved me time the additional comfort that it provides is way more than you'd think. The soft palm swell and soft cheek rest make the Viper Skinned AICS feel like returning to your home bed after a long trip away. I also highly recommend the accustack spacers. Not so much for the reason that Victor Company sells them. I wasn't having issues with the cheek rest falling upon recoil... However being able to quickly and easily snap that cheek rest to exactly where it was before after cleaning was very handy! I watched quite a few guys fiddle with their setups as they worked to readjust their comb height again after cleaning the rifle.
The additional grip provided by the rubber palm swell gives me the same grip that I get when wearing leather shooting gloves without the missing tactile feedback from them covering your fingertips. I've since cut the finger tips off but hey... you get the picture. I also felt that the pistol grip FORCED me to get a perfect straight back pull on the trigger. The size of the standard palm swell was just right for me out of the box and my finger falls on the trigger with a nice 90 degree bend at the knuckle and it just makes you shoot with proper fundamentals because that is what feels right.
I didn't get my QD sling conversion in time for this class but I'm sure that I'll be happy with the peace of mind knowing that I have a solid sling connection. It will raise my barrel up a bit more but with my 20" tube I think it will still fall below head level which is my main goal at the moment. I pretty much want the rifle to fall within my body so that if I walk through some brush or a door way I know that the rifle is going to clear.
The TAB gear Biathlon sling was great for schlepping my 17 pound gun up and down the steep incline to the shooting line. I didn't get much chance to use the shooters sling portion of it but I have tried it out at my range. While I believe I'll much prefer the Rapid Adjust Sling that I've also bought for positional shooting I'm a huge fan of the Biathlon for making a heavier rifle feel very comfortable when packed for a distance especially on steeper terrain. Made it much more bearable for this fat guy (5'11" 205lbs and in terrible shape).
This setup has felt very comfortable to me during the first day of class! I owe that to the fantastic products as well as the time spent dry firing and getting used to them. That time is where I really fell in love with the Viper Skins! I thought that I'd go back and forth and hem and haw about which one I liked better. I kinda assumed that it would be a toss up in my mind and that I'd like elements of each and that it would be hard to make a decision. I honestly felt that I was going to end up selling the Viper Skins because I've very much been a fan of thumb hole stocks in the past. However once the Viper Skins went onto my rifle there was no question this was what I wanted my rifle to feel like. I was quickly ready to break out the dremel and make these babies permanently mine! Now if you want to take them from me you're going to have to be ducking lead as you try!
Well if you've made it this far reading my words I thank you for spending the time to hear my thoughts and only hope that they were informative and/or help you with a decision that you're trying to make.
Good shooting!
~Brett
I also bought the 3" leg extensions as i much prefer the 9"-13" Harris model when not shooting from the bench (I only use the 6" to 9" when bench shooting). Considering that the Atlas heights are 4.75"-9" I felt like I was going to really prefer having the setup be at 7.75"-12" as it more closely resembled the 9"-13" I preferred. I was wrong. Turned out to get to the closest target toward the bottom of the hill I had to tilt the legs forward 45 degrees to get low enough and then didn't ever use the full extension to get to the target at the top of the hill at 780 yards. After taking the extensions off I was able to get onto all of the targets with the legs at 90 degrees.
The B&T mono-pod for the AICS platform is also much improved over that of the swivel mount version. The push button to lock it into the stowed and use positions was very welcomed! I also found that clicking the monopod into its free swiveling position and using it as a hand hold in intermediate positions allowed me very fast acquisition on targets at varying distances on the timed events.
I spent about 11 hours today with this platform with a little time taken out to clean the rifle and to eat lunch. Not a whole lot of time was spent standing up away from the rifle. I was so comfortable with the platform I never really felt the want or need to get up and take a break. Bout the only time I got up was when we were in timed sequences and had to start back from the rifles and race to the firing line and load before shooting.
In the timed portions the AICS platform worked very well for me! I found that when we were supposed to just run to the firing position and be the first one to put a bullet on a single target that single loading was the way to go. However once we had to engage multiple targets the magazine was the way to go because it made for much faster follow up shots. I believe with a bit more practice and more muscle memory on where the magazine slot is that this difference could be diminished.
The AICS platform while very good as is it was made great by the Victor Company products. The grippy cheek rest was WAY cooler than it had any right to be. I honestly didn't expect a whole lot of difference from it. I'm not too sure that it made a ton of difference in the accuracy of my shots but it did mean that my face was still welded to the rifle and I KNOW that it saved me time on follow up shots. Even if it hadn't saved me time the additional comfort that it provides is way more than you'd think. The soft palm swell and soft cheek rest make the Viper Skinned AICS feel like returning to your home bed after a long trip away. I also highly recommend the accustack spacers. Not so much for the reason that Victor Company sells them. I wasn't having issues with the cheek rest falling upon recoil... However being able to quickly and easily snap that cheek rest to exactly where it was before after cleaning was very handy! I watched quite a few guys fiddle with their setups as they worked to readjust their comb height again after cleaning the rifle.
The additional grip provided by the rubber palm swell gives me the same grip that I get when wearing leather shooting gloves without the missing tactile feedback from them covering your fingertips. I've since cut the finger tips off but hey... you get the picture. I also felt that the pistol grip FORCED me to get a perfect straight back pull on the trigger. The size of the standard palm swell was just right for me out of the box and my finger falls on the trigger with a nice 90 degree bend at the knuckle and it just makes you shoot with proper fundamentals because that is what feels right.
I didn't get my QD sling conversion in time for this class but I'm sure that I'll be happy with the peace of mind knowing that I have a solid sling connection. It will raise my barrel up a bit more but with my 20" tube I think it will still fall below head level which is my main goal at the moment. I pretty much want the rifle to fall within my body so that if I walk through some brush or a door way I know that the rifle is going to clear.
The TAB gear Biathlon sling was great for schlepping my 17 pound gun up and down the steep incline to the shooting line. I didn't get much chance to use the shooters sling portion of it but I have tried it out at my range. While I believe I'll much prefer the Rapid Adjust Sling that I've also bought for positional shooting I'm a huge fan of the Biathlon for making a heavier rifle feel very comfortable when packed for a distance especially on steeper terrain. Made it much more bearable for this fat guy (5'11" 205lbs and in terrible shape).
This setup has felt very comfortable to me during the first day of class! I owe that to the fantastic products as well as the time spent dry firing and getting used to them. That time is where I really fell in love with the Viper Skins! I thought that I'd go back and forth and hem and haw about which one I liked better. I kinda assumed that it would be a toss up in my mind and that I'd like elements of each and that it would be hard to make a decision. I honestly felt that I was going to end up selling the Viper Skins because I've very much been a fan of thumb hole stocks in the past. However once the Viper Skins went onto my rifle there was no question this was what I wanted my rifle to feel like. I was quickly ready to break out the dremel and make these babies permanently mine! Now if you want to take them from me you're going to have to be ducking lead as you try!
Well if you've made it this far reading my words I thank you for spending the time to hear my thoughts and only hope that they were informative and/or help you with a decision that you're trying to make.
Good shooting!
~Brett
On the firing line:
This is exactly how I waited for my turn at the cleaning bench:
Love this gun and had an absolute blast with this setup!
This is exactly how I waited for my turn at the cleaning bench:
Love this gun and had an absolute blast with this setup!
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