reread "good" as constructive. you're not making a point and wasting your time.
- Thread starter Dthomas3523
- Start date
I’m not sure why this thread has to be an echo chamber of only positive views of this unproven new technology. It clearly gives information that wasn’t previously available. The effect of that on the overall process remains to be seen. I’m glad it exists and there are people experimenting with it, but it seems reasonable for people to question its value. There ought to be more questioning of assumptions in the reloading process, not less.
And many won’t share what we have. Because it’s just not worth it.
There’s a ton of data out there on several topics. Some that confirms long held believes and some that totally turns others on it’s head.
And much of it will never see the light of day because the internet roasts you no matter what. Posts like yours ensures many won’t bother helping you with free information.
- Nov 3, 2010
- 8,662
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And that’s a shame indeed. I have been watching this thread to see what kind of info was coming. I don’t see eye to eye with you on all things, but I’m smart enough to know your a respected shooter who might have a tad bit more experience to offer a guy like me should I ever go that route. I say fuck em and feed em fish
Not saying people are not allowed to question it. I’m talking about the people right out the bat that say it’s all BS Or waste of time.
So far the two gentlemen sharing the experience with it have not told people you can not make good ammunition without one or if you do not own one your an idiot.
I am talking about people right out the gate want to tear it apart.
I see it a lot on this board.
All I am saying is have questions do not treat the guys like they are talking down to anyone because they are not.
Comments like ( bullet seating graphs don't do a lot for me.) sorry to just grab this out of the many negative comments made by several people. That comment is not a constructive question.
It is okay to question something or someone. But not once have I seen them say anything negative towards people that don’t own them Or say it’s the only way to do it. I bet both of them might even disagree with each other’s results.
I find the information they have shared so far to be interesting And by being negative ever time they try to post something. Why would you bother sharing anything.
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I think most information that people offer is usually worth it but, it depends on the perspective of the reader. Some focus on cost benefits, some focus on useability while others focus on other particular issues they may have that something may be able to fix or alleviate. A quick read of any of the threads talking about a particular rifle action speaks volumes about personal perspectives but, I find peoples particular perspectives interesting & extremely revealing at times. My perspective is in regards to improvements with accuracy & or reloading technique.
If someone comes to the thread with valid data, I'll be very interested in hearing what they have to say.
Not that I think other perspectives aren't interesting or are of no consequence. I just think most of what has been posted to date is subjective & that's ok. I just haven't seen what I could define as objective reasons as yet.
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and back to why people won't share, because it doesn't hold up to your uninformed intellectual scrutiny and snide remarks about 'valid data'. Thanks for sharing and bashing what people have posted. I for one appreciate what orkan and dthomas have posted both good and bad it's been constructive.
I don't believe I've bashed any comments & I've certainly made no snide remarks, intentional or otherwise.
I made no reference to any other comments. I voiced my own opinion only on subject matter which had not been mentioned previously.
Youre one person in a line of people that started off theorizing that it wouldn't work. This is at least partially to blame for the early adopters not posting results.
To your theory that a few lbs of seating force doesn’t matter. The seating force is a direct representation of neck tension and inside neck/bearing surface friction. We've known for a very long time that it matters. This is why we care for necks the way we do. Traditionally this was done by feel(very coarse), then later by force gauges on arbor presses(coarse), and now its been elevated to a level never seen before(very fine). If you're not going to run out and buy one, great. Until then, kindly stow your skepticism until we can get some data from those that did.
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That's right, "one person in a long line" I'm glad you mentioned that. Couldn't have made my point better.
The only guy on here with a dog in the fight is Orkan. Now he's made plenty of subjective claims but no objective claims that I'm aware of so I've no problem with that.
You're a different can of worms though. What's your motivation?
Why are you taking this so personal? Especially when you've admitted you know two tenths of fuck all about what the press may or may not do.
A friendly word of advice; It'll be a lot easier to make a coherent point when you pull your tongue out Orkans arsehole.
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You backhandedly stated there was no valid data in this thread and derided the posts that have come before. One post saved me a lot of money from buying a Henderson trimmer. But it didn't tickle your IBs so it's not valid to you. Many of us are looking at buying this and can't right now since it's not in stock and want to keep hearing positive OR negative thoughts and observations. You're the kid who shows up and pees in the pool and says he didn't. Kindly go stroke your own barrel.
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If you really can’t handle reading anything that doesn’t support your biases, which would be sad, you can put the guy on ignore.
Sure could (and now have), but we still get the below outcome. I'm done.
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If you want it, by all means, you buy it & with my blessing. You don't need to justify your decision in exactly the same way I don't have to justify my opinions.
You'd love that, wouldn't you?
Just shut up already dude. If you don’t like the product then get out of the product thread, no one wants to read your bitching.
Definition of TEDIUM
the quality or state of being tedious : tediousness; also : boredom; a tedious period of time… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com Nobody is saying that. If someone who has one came on here and talked about the negatives it would be good. It's the folks who don't have one that start saying negative stuff with zero experience with the press that's pissing people off. Talk about experience with the press not whether you think it'll be good or bad.
Personal experience isn’t the only useful thing someone can bring to a discussion. A post above linked to actual ballistic research showing that the primer charge alone unseats the bullet. That expanded my knowledge, despite not being a personal anecdote from an AMP press owner.
What has been posted so far from folks WITH direct experience hasn't been very useful either. If a few doubters is enough to curb the conversation then this is either their first day on the internet or they were looking for an excuse all along. I've seen the sizzle, now I'm ready for the steak. That shouldn't be construed as doubt but agnostic skepticism. Feel free to post data...or don't. Just don't get offended when half the information isn't take as the whole picture.
Agree to disagree.
Feel free but page four of this thread contradicts most of the press proponents information. Good reloading practices are already known and much of the minutia this press' software measures is statistically immeasurable on target. I haven't seen any data output thus far for target correlation that demonstrates the benefit of reducing seating weight beyond a certain point. What has been said so far has been known for years. Lots of sizzle though.
I can see a difference in work on the graph, and shoot the difference.
A neck that gets hit with a chamfer tool. A neck that gets hit with scotchbrite. A neck that sees a mandrel vs one that doesn't. They all shoot differently and they all plot different traces on the graph.
I have found a rogue piece of brass that clearly was picked up off the floor next to the machine and thrown in with the batch. One piece that produced a markedly different trace than the rest of the lot number. Completely different piece of brass, despite coming from the same box as the rest.
The benefits of this press are self evident to anyone capable of critical thinking.
A neck that gets hit with a chamfer tool. A neck that gets hit with scotchbrite. A neck that sees a mandrel vs one that doesn't. They all shoot differently and they all plot different traces on the graph.
I have found a rogue piece of brass that clearly was picked up off the floor next to the machine and thrown in with the batch. One piece that produced a markedly different trace than the rest of the lot number. Completely different piece of brass, despite coming from the same box as the rest.
The benefits of this press are self evident to anyone capable of critical thinking.
Of course, no argument. But you knew that before you had the press and were already controlling those variables. The difference is you now have a graf. The press seems like a good diagnostic tool but it is only going to tell you what has been commonly known for years. What I was asking for is the results on paper for the statistical noise or diminishing sub SD's. The only discussion I've seen is for is justification of existing process control.
Previously you said the AMP press was too slow for your volume. Have you modified your process to intergrade the AMP press or are you running two different processes in parallel? If you integrated the AMP press, how have you changed your process to make the AMP press work for your volume?
I think you better re-read what I said. You’re not even talking about the same piece of equipment or the same op as when I talked about volume.
The AMP press is ready and waiting for each charge as fast as they come out of my Prometheus.
The AMP press is ready and waiting for each charge as fast as they come out of my Prometheus.
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Well that would be a very real reason to own the press.
Loading as much as you do, I can see a very real benefit. As long as you kept all the seated cartridges in order, you could seat the lot without having to concentrate on the process & simply check the graphs at the end. A definite benefit for those loading high volumes.
Anyhow, since I didn't come onto this thread to disparage the press, I fully intend to keep an open mind. It's very new onto the scene & there'll be much to discover in the future.
I've mentioned it before, but I apologize if I wasn't clear enough. The ability to not rely on all of my senses to determine if a bullet is seating uniformly is amazing. It's impossible to overstate just how calming the seating op is with this press. It allows such high confidence, with so minimal effort. That's the thing that makes it a no-brainer for me.
...now if I could just find someone qualified to produce custom inline dies for my wildcats.
I still soo want one of these!
ultimatereloader.com
How Does Brass Prep Affect Bullet Seating? (AMP Press Tests) – Ultimate Reloader
ultimatereloader.com back in stock
shop.ampannealing.com
AMP Press
FREE Shipping anywhere in the US via FedExIncludes: AMP PressSimulation DieUSB CableUser ManualTwo adjustable ramsUSB Drive with Software, license key and instructional video *Does not include Seating die or computerNOTE: The software has changed since the initial version and this is bei...
shop.ampannealing.com I know this is kind of an old post now but man I have tried alot of shit to see how to solve it and worked with Todd to figure it out as well. But man I still have trouble with it galling the inside of the case necks. It's like if you try to sand the pilot down you will go to far and have chatter, I've also tried adjusting the cutter head blades.. its annoying to say the least and it absolutely affects seating depth. Anyone have any ideas how to fix the problem?
He said he switched back to the Giraud trimmer a few posts down from there.
The entire premise of the Giraud was to get away from pilots. This was all settled 20 years ago. Instead of moving away from the Giraud, I just made it's use better by adding a vacuum attachment and some case holders to a handheld electric screwdriver. It's the fastest method that still allows me to maintain the integrity of my necks.
Can you provide more detail on the screwdriver setup? I mean I could experiment, but it looks like you have already done the hard work...The entire premise of the Giraud was to get away from pilots. This was all settled 20 years ago. Instead of moving away from the Giraud, I just made it's use better by adding a vacuum attachment and some case holders to a handheld electric screwdriver. It's the fastest method that still allows me to maintain the integrity of my necks.
Sure, there are a number of electric screw drivers out there. Then there are a number of "hex" interface case holders. I made a collar to "clamp" them onto the electric screwdriver. Will probably have them up on the site eventually, but for now if someone wants them they need to call. Not sure if there's demand enough to produce them in steel/aluminum yet.
O I must've missed that post.. I'm sure there has to be a few other people that have ran into this issue with the henderson
Those "Hex" interface case holders are sure not Lee brand, Who makes those?Sure, there are a number of electric screw drivers out there. Then there are a number of "hex" interface case holders. I made a collar to "clamp" them onto the electric screwdriver. Will probably have them up on the site eventually, but for now if someone wants them they need to call. Not sure if there's demand enough to produce them in steel/aluminum yet.
Nice design on the clamp/collar.
Just found that K&M looks to make one. I'm waiting for them to tell me whether my Sinclair shell holders are compatible. The Lee flat shell holders are but I'm not a fan of them (tolerances are a bit sloppy).
Link to K&M https://kmshooting.com/product/power-adapter-without-shell-holder/
I don't recall where I got those. Everybody makes something similar. It just grabs the case rim and is hex, for compatibility with drill/screwdriver.
Amazon.com : Lee 3-Jaw Chuck Case Trimmer Kit : Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : Lee 3-Jaw Chuck Case Trimmer Kit : Sports & Outdoors
amzn.to
There ya go. Lots of companies make various versions. Can't say one is any better than the next.
I made some delrin pilots that helped but the best solution was trimming before sizing.
Ya but isn't trimming before sizing going to give you some length inconsistency?
