Any Advise on Lee Enfield Rifles?

[Son of Dorn]

Yeah, I know. Great Egret actually.
Old timers just called them pond gannets....

That's one I never heard before. Then again, not many ponds right around here. Mostly marsh.

Hmm. I have a few ideas about this rifle, @Secret SQL .

1. Barrel doodad's affecting the way the barrel acts after the rifle's fired.

2. The stock's not properly set up for the barrel or it's misaligned with the action. Maybe warped or otherwise out of shape.

3. The height of the scope's just not comfortable and you're feeling an impulse that wouldn't be felt if it was lower and you had a better cheek weld.

4. The bag/cheekrest isn't secure enough on the stock and it slips when the rifle's fired.

Without all the wood and the extra metal from the barrel bands and foresight, it's probably somewhat lighter. Bit of extra kick combined with any of those factors might give you a problem. I'm also wondering if the barrel's the original one or not. For some reason it seems a little too long to me, but it might just be my imagination.

 

[Lange Carabine]

I'm also wondering if the barrel's the original one or not. For some reason it seems a little too long to me, but it might just be my imagination.

Appears to be the original barrel, if you zoom in you can see the bayonet lugs just in front of the tuner thingamajig....

Oh, BTW...

 

[6.5SH]

Think he's just having a tough time getting a good position on it combined with muscling the gun to line things up.

OP, check out some of the videos here on how to get straight behind the gun.

EDIT:
Lot of really good discussion and videos in this thread that may help you out.

What's wrong with my recoil management/shooting position?

After watch quite a few videos about recoil management, griping, shooting position and practice hundreds rounds in the range, I still found shooting a 308win without muzzle brake, the point of aim after the shoot would be 8-10mils left compare to where I aim before. If lucky maybe 6-8mils, I...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Son of Dorn]

Appears to be the original barrel, if you zoom in you can see the bayonet lugs just in front of the tuner thingamajig....

Oh, BTW...View attachment 7623570

Aye, we got lots of them birds here. I meant I'd never heard 'em called "pond gannets". Few months ago I got within eight feet of a spectacular Great Blue Heron while walking before it winged to the other side of the road. You don't realize just how "great" those birds are 'til you see one up-close like that.

Yes, I thought I saw the lugs but it was a bit fuzzy on my screen so I wasn't quite sure. OG barrels are pretty long on the No. 4, and kinda skinny if mine are any example. A weight or tuner on it and not enough support from the stock could sure mess with you, I reckon.

 

[Lange Carabine]

I got ya. Just call it regional terminology.
I've actually had my hands on a Great Blue once, idiot buddy managed to get one tangled up in a cast net while we was shrimping one night....
You're right, they are really "great" up close....and those beaks are quite sharp and pointy too.

 

[Secret SQL]

E

It is a barrel tuner I believe.

EDIT:

Sharpshooter X-Ring Barrel Deresonator

A unique barrel deresonator, the LimbSaver Sharpshooter X-Ring helps to improve your accuracy while also dampening barrel whip. It's available in two options -- one for standard barrels and one for bull barrels. The Sharpshooter X-Ring Barrel Deresonator improves accuracy while also dampening...

limbsaver.com

Exactly correct. Although, I haven't got it tuned yet. It's a new addition. Trying to get the barrel whip under control.

 

[Secret SQL]

“I don’t like gannets. They wet their nests.”



Sirhr

Love Monty Python.

"Dosen't matter where he grips it. It's a simple matter of weight ratios. A 2 oz. bird can't carry a 6 lb. coconut."

 

[Secret SQL]

You have a No.4 Mk.1 made by ROF(F), ( Royal Ordnance Factory- Fazakerly) in July 1943 that was FTR'd, ( Factory Through Repair= means it was completely rebuilt at the factory) in 1947 by Fazakerly.
Reckon you got that scope high enough? Geez you must have a neck like a pond gannet.....
I'm surprised you had enough elevation adjustment to zero it inside 300 yards.
That just might explain the weird recoil impulse you inquired about too.View attachment 7623531
^pond gannet^

OK. I see it now. Not the MKII, but a MK1/F. Eyes ain't what they use to be, hence the gigantic frigging scope.

As for the scope, with the picatinni mount and the scope mount, it's as low as I could go at the time. At some point you have to make a decision and live with the consequences. Currently zero'd at 100 yards. But everything is open for change.

You think the barrel whip issue could be related to the scope mount? Please explain.

 

[Secret SQL]

Think he's just having a tough time getting a good position on it combined with muscling the gun to line things up.

OP, check out some of the videos here on how to get straight behind the gun.

EDIT:
Lot of really good discussion and videos in this thread that may help you out.

What's wrong with my recoil management/shooting position?

After watch quite a few videos about recoil management, griping, shooting position and practice hundreds rounds in the range, I still found shooting a 308win without muzzle brake, the point of aim after the shoot would be 8-10mils left compare to where I aim before. If lucky maybe 6-8mils, I...

www.snipershide.com

Thanks. I will investigate.

 

[Lange Carabine]

Pics...

View attachment 7623498View attachment 7623499View attachment 7623500

SQL, I'm gonna be brutally honest here...
Your rifle looks like a mall ninja fantasy piece with all that extra crap hanging to it. Get rid of it and start over.

E

Exactly correct. Although, I haven't got it tuned yet. It's a new addition. Trying to get the barrel whip under control.

That silly tuner ain't gonna do nothing but make the problem worse.
A LE No.4 forend when properly fitted to MoD spec makes light contact on the bottom of the Knox form to keep the barrels weight from stressing the action body and puts light up pressure on the barrel about 4 inches from the muzzle to keep barrel vibrations consistent.
Until you put your rifle back to the way it is supposed to be it will never shoot to it's TRUE potential.
All sorts of mods were tried by MoD REME's over the years to improve the accuracy of the No.4 but nothing was ever found to be as good as the original forend bedding method.
The No.4T sniper variant stayed in frontline service until the late 70's and there was never a relaxation in standards in the way they were set up.

 

[Secret SQL]

Appears to be the original barrel, if you zoom in you can see the bayonet lugs just in front of the tuner thingamajig....

Oh, BTW...View attachment 7623570

Is the original barrel, just had the front iron sight removed. It's only pinned in place.

Although my neck isin't competing with an egrets, it does have metal plates and is not so bendable (lucky freak'in bird) anymore.

 

[Lange Carabine]

By push, I mean the during the recoil phase. The rifle does not push straight backwards. Always has a recoil push to the right. I'm on target and it seems to be an accurate machine, but pushes the barrel to the right.

This is what I was referring to that may be partly or wholly caused be the scope being mounted so high.

 

[Secret SQL]

SQL, I'm gonna be brutally honest here...
Your rifle looks like a mall ninja fantasy piece with all that extra crap hanging to it. Get rid of it and start over.

That silly tuner ain't gonna do nothing but make the problem worse.
A LE No.4 forend when properly fitted to MoD spec makes light contact on the bottom of the Knox form to keep the barrels weight from stressing the action body and puts light up pressure on the barrel about 4 inches from the muzzle to keep barrel vibrations consistent.
Until you put your rifle back to the way it is supposed to be it will never shoot to it's TRUE potential.
All sorts of mods were tried by MoD REME's over the years to improve the accuracy of the No.4 but nothing was ever found to be as good as the original forend bedding method.
The No.4T sniper variant stayed in frontline service until the late 70's and there was never a relaxation in standards in the way they were set up.

Mall Ninja Fantasy? Never heard that one before.

I'm not happy with the aftermarket stock I have on it. I thought the original wooden stock with the up pressure would be better and agree with you there. The original/factory stock is too far gone and not salvageable, but I have not been able to locate a source for a relpacement. Anyone have a suggestion?

 

[Lange Carabine]

Mall Ninja Fantasy? Never heard that one before.

I'm not happy with the aftermarket stock I have on it. I thought the original wooden stock with the up pressure would be better and agree with you there. The original/factory stock is too far gone and not salvageable, but I have not been able to locate a source for a relpacement. Anyone have a suggestion?

Theres also steam punk fantasy pieces too.
One other question regarding your rifle before you go any further. Is the charger bridge still intact and unmodified? If it's been removed you can forget trying to restore it. In addition to assisting in the loading of the rifle the CB also keeps the action body from spreading during the firing cycle and putting uneven pressure on the bolt locking lugs.
Havent looked in a while but Liberty Tree Collectors did have new No.4 forends. A word of warning here, restoring that rifle to full military trim is not going to be done on the cheap , but hopefully you saved all the bands and screws, ect when you removed the original forend which will save a lot of headaches and $$.
Enfield forends are NOT a drop in fit, and fitting one to the proper MoD spec isnt a job for the beginner.
When you find one, my advice to you is to strip your rifle down to a barreled action and send it and the forend/ other parts to Brian Dick at BDL LTD in Edgefield S.C. and let him properly fit/bed the forend.
My 2nd bit of advice, if the CB is present and hasn't been modified, is to let Brian source you a Fultons clamp on scope base and a decent set of rings while he has your rifle and do away with the flimsey set up you have now.
When you get it back form Brian it should consisteny shoot 1.5- 2.0 MOA at 100 yds with most factory/surplus ammo and closer to 1.0 with good handloads.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Mall Ninja Fantasy? Never heard that one before.

I'm not happy with the aftermarket stock I have on it. I thought the original wooden stock with the up pressure would be better and agree with you there. The original/factory stock is too far gone and not salvageable, but I have not been able to locate a source for a relpacement. Anyone have a suggestion?

Lange Carabine mentioned these folks. I would've if he hadn't. They've got used stocks/forends and a NOS set as well:

Enfield No4 Series - Liberty Tree Collectors

 

[Secret SQL]

Theres also steam punk fantasy pieces too.
One other question regarding your rifle before you go any further. Is the charger bridge still intact and unmodified? If it's been removed you can forget trying to restore it. In addition to assisting in the loading of the rifle the CB also keeps the action body from spreading during the firing cycle and putting uneven pressure on the bolt locking lugs.
Havent looked in a while but Liberty Tree Collectors did have new No.4 forends. A word of warning here, restoring that rifle to full military trim is not going to be done on the cheap , but hopefully you saved all the bands and screws, ect when you removed the original forend which will save a lot of headaches and $$.
Enfield forends are NOT a drop in fit, and fitting one to the proper MoD spec isnt a job for the beginner.
When you find one, my advice to you is to strip your rifle down to a barreled action and send it and the forend/ other parts to Brian Dick at BDL LTD in Edgefield S.C. and let him properly fit/bed the forend.
My 2nd bit of advice, if the CB is present and hasn't been modified, is to let Brian source you a Fultons clamp on scope base and a decent set of rings while he has your rifle and do away with the flimsey set up you have now.
When you get it back form Brian it should consisteny shoot 1.5- 2.0 MOA at 100 yds with most factory/surplus ammo and closer to 1.0 with good handloads.

I kept everything, including the original stock. I ain't as smart as some folks, but I know enough to not throw out original equipment on an almost 80 y.o. rifle.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I kept everything, including the original stock. I ain't as smart as some folks, but I know enough to not throw out original equipment on an almost 80 y.o. rifle.

Putting them back on would be a good start.

That setup is going to be a s*1+ magnet, though I applaud the effort.

I have a bunch of Enfields. Including a couple of custom hunting rifles. They are great actions. But they don't translate well into modern tactical rifles. Sort of like trying to make a Nagant all snipery. So Lange is not really out of line in his thinking.

Saving the original hardware is smart! Because SMLE's are really more fun when they are SMLE's! And .303's kick no matter what.

Thanks, those above, for the reference on SMLE forends. I need two of them for my DeLisle conversions. I'd rather not buy repros, but the market for originals is insanely... non-existent. But I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet and buy a couple of reproductions.

Barrel tuner... don't waste your time. Things made of "Navibendium" or whatever they called it? For $20 on eBay? Not going to help.

Put the SMLE back in SMLE order and you will have an amazing rifle that shoots "Minute of Kraut" (Sorry Lange) a day long. And you will LOVE owning it. The current configuration is not worthy of you or a neat rifle.

But anyway, putting it back and getting the details right for an issue SMLE will make for some fun shooting. And then put together a modern tactical rifle that shoots holes in holes. Both are welcome here!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Son of Dorn]

Putting them back on would be a good start.

That setup is going to be a s*1+ magnet, though I applaud the effort.

I have a bunch of Enfields. Including a couple of custom hunting rifles. They are great actions. But they don't translate well into modern tactical rifles. Sort of like trying to make a Nagant all snipery. So Lange is not really out of line in his thinking.

Saving the original hardware is smart! Because SMLE's are really more fun when they are SMLE's! And .303's kick no matter what.

Thanks, those above, for the reference on SMLE forends. I need two of them for my DeLisle conversions. I'd rather not buy repros, but the market for originals is insanely... non-existent. But I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet and buy a couple of reproductions.

Barrel tuner... don't waste your time. Things made of "Navibendium" or whatever they called it? For $20 on eBay? Not going to help.

Put the SMLE back in SMLE order and you will have an amazing rifle that shoots "Minute of Kraut" (Sorry Lange) a day long. And you will LOVE owning it. The current configuration is not worthy of you or a neat rifle.

But anyway, putting it back and getting the details right for an issue SMLE will make for some fun shooting. And then put together a modern tactical rifle that shoots holes in holes. Both are welcome here!

Cheers,

Sirhr

My M91/30s' plenty snipery. S'got a PU scope and a turned-down bolt handle!

Do you know of anyone who could do a .303-to-.308 conversion? If OP wants to have an unusual snipery SMLE-type, an L42A1 could be a fun project for him. I've wanted to do one myself but the calibre-conversion or even a new bolt is an issue.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

My M91/30s' plenty snipery. S'got a PU scope and a turned-down bolt handle!

Do you know of anyone who could do a .303-to-.308 conversion? If OP wants to have an unusual snipery SMLE-type, an L42A1 could be a fun project for him. I've wanted to do one myself but the calibre-conversion or even a new bolt is an issue.

The actions are amazing... I have a custom .45-70 rifle on a SMLE. And both the DeLisles I am building are on very, very modified SMLE actions. So they are worthy. It's just what you do with them...

As for 91-30's being snipery... according to Lyudmila and Vasyli, they were snipery out of the box. Choate stocks and Cheaper Than Dirt scopes do not make them more so. .303 SMLE's were snipery out of the box. Ask the men who knew:

Most of these guys cut swaths through the German lines without scopes or composite stocks. Snipery is not the rifle. It is the man.



Sirhr

 

[USABAKER]

The stock was split and worn (rifle manufactured in 1947 I think) and I had to replace it.

You should give me a shot at restoring the original stock for you. I would not change you, I could use the experience. PM me if interested.

 

[Rich4]

The original for-ends, if not warped are pretty resilient to rebuilding, while they never found a superior bedding system while in military service doesn’t mean other setups don’t work as well or better with handloads, as mkv11 ball is pretty hard to find, hand loading changes the harmonics to suit the setup, allowing for a good barrel of course

 

[OldBrit]

We seem to have gone around the world with this one, as I understand it the original question was about barrel "whip" in a Lee Enfield No4 after a stock change First of all let me say I'm not an expert but do know a little about No 4's, that rifle barrel would have been bedded on wooden pads in it's original stock, the pads should have applied 6lbs of upward pressure to the barrel. From what I've been told it should be possible to move the barrel upwards and side to side if you applied sufficient pressure, but not downwards and it should always return to a central position when the pressure is released.

 

[BruceInOz]

I have a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk II that I inherited. The stock was split and worn (rifle manufactured in 1947 I think) and I had to replace it. I chose to use a modern glass poly stock (I know, purists please forgive me) which works well enough, but I am getting a lot of sideways push (to the right). Is there a correlation with the full length wooden stock and barrel whip?

Best I can tell this rifle was built in England In 1947 and was a sniper version, although it did not have the original mount or scope. The left hand side of the action/breach is tapped with 3 holes and the serial seems to support the original sniper diagnosis. I'm making this rifle into a antiques/modern sporter and would appreciate your comments and insights. If you're going to tell me what a fool I am for modifying/modernizing this rifle, you can keep those vomments to yourself.

Pics to follow soon.

To fit a "Mil-Spec" fore-end, first go here:

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16948

and read carefully before reaching for the tools.

If you are going to hack the fore-end back to "sporter" profile, all bedding bets are off. The "original" bedding regime was developed to work with ONE (Two if you note the rear differences between the Mk 1 and Mk2 fittings) fore-end style. ALL of theme were tuned to ONE ammunition type; (.303 Mk 7 ball (FMJ) fueled by Cordite. However, it is a good place to start.

My "go-to" hunting rifle is a "resurrected" No.4 "sporter" with after-market synthetic furniture with judicious Devcon pads. No bench-rest queen, but "minute of game" accurate and reliable.to boot. On these parts, the ten-round mag and slick action is handy for sustained fire on feral pigs.

Building a companion piece in .308Win on a Mk2 action for my son. Previously a proofed fullbore range rifle in 7.62 NATO, it will end up as a light-ish sporter with ex Indian 2A1 mag. L-42A1 extractor and Ceracote "can't see me" finish. So far, so good.

 

[BruceInOz]

Putting them back on would be a good start.

That setup is going to be a s*1+ magnet, though I applaud the effort.

I have a bunch of Enfields. Including a couple of custom hunting rifles. They are great actions. But they don't translate well into modern tactical rifles. Sort of like trying to make a Nagant all snipery. So Lange is not really out of line in his thinking.

Saving the original hardware is smart! Because SMLE's are really more fun when they are SMLE's! And .303's kick no matter what.

Thanks, those above, for the reference on SMLE forends. I need two of them for my DeLisle conversions. I'd rather not buy repros, but the market for originals is insanely... non-existent. But I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet and buy a couple of reproductions.

Barrel tuner... don't waste your time. Things made of "Navibendium" or whatever they called it? For $20 on eBay? Not going to help.

Put the SMLE back in SMLE order and you will have an amazing rifle that shoots "Minute of Kraut" (Sorry Lange) a day long. And you will LOVE owning it. The current configuration is not worthy of you or a neat rifle.

But anyway, putting it back and getting the details right for an issue SMLE will make for some fun shooting. And then put together a modern tactical rifle that shoots holes in holes. Both are welcome here!

Cheers,

Sirhr

A Mosin Nagant gone "snipery" the proper way:

Finnish TKIV-85, 7.62KIV85, TAK 85 Sniper has begun. pics

I am working on a new project and need data, specifically barrel dimensions, on the Finnish TKIV-85, 7.62KIV85, or TAK 85 Sniper. This is what one looks like: There are two versions of the TAK-85. A heavy barreled purely sniper rifle that has no iron sights and a hybrid, lighter barrelled...

www.snipershide.com

Enjoy!

 

[Davo308]

Now I want an smle.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Now I want an smle.

Meh, just get a Bren!



Sirhr

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

I remember the para smock with wool cuffs.
Brilliant piece of kit..... except the wool cuffs
They stayed wet forever.