I agree with you Bytor.
I am surprised how much this one shook me up.
I am surprised how much this one shook me up.
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- Thread starter BigPineyTradingPost
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Yes, they beat the on-sight people with the fire extinguisher. The other guys were spraying too soon. How he got out I have no idea. Looks like he did a full 360 trying to get out of the cockpit. Well, if there is any doubt of miracles, people should watch that. I didn't think it was going to be that bad, but when they showed the cockpit through the ARMCO I was stunned.
Yes, though, the medical car folks were amazing. True studs.
The level of complete professionalism in F-1 is astounding. Any other motorsports organization would have had a fatality today. Even IMSA/LeMans cars are not built to handle that level of crash. Let alone their organized safety protocols, exit tests, etc, etc.
'I'm OK': Romain Grosjean walks away from huge F1 crash – video
French F1 driver Romain Grosjean escaped from a huge crash after his car was engulfed in a fireball when he climbed from the wreckage
www.theguardian.com Truly a miracle. Lot's of talk about the ARMCO "failing" but had that been a cement wall he'd have died from G-forces.
'I'm OK': Romain Grosjean walks away from huge F1 crash – video
French F1 driver Romain Grosjean escaped from a huge crash after his car was engulfed in a fireball when he climbed from the wreckage
Truly a miracle. Lot's of talk about the ARMCO "failing" but had that been a cement wall he'd have died from G-forces.
I like tire barriers a lot more than ARMCO. First off you have to pay for the replacement of the ARMCO, at least in amateur racing. Tire walls are a lot more forgiving on the car and the driver. Also, fuck fires they suck! I have personally seen a driver trying to get out of his car as it was dragging him back down the front straight at COTA. During yearly car inspections you have to show you can get out of your car in 10 seconds. I can get out of that M'fer in 3. Once again fuck fire!
Yes, I'm actually shocked this didn't have a tire barrier at least in front of a wall or ARMCO - Like in a lot of places at Sebring. However, folks saying it should have been a concrete jersey barrier are nuts. He'd be dead. The fact the ARMCO split and the halo opened it up is what saved him. Energy dissipation. The interesting thing, that tub was 100% intact. You could even see where he'd taken off the neck bracing.
As far as safety...worst track I ever ran on was Moroso (now Palm Beach International). Concrete walls almost like a street course. The chicane they added was a 8" high CURB.... Hit that, and flip. Out and out awful safety. Not even a fun track really, especially after neutering with the chicane.
Several years back the company I work for got certified to build Safer Barrier. It is used at a bunch of the NASCAR tracks.
It is a pretty cool system. Hopefully they will investigate this crash and maybe move to something like Safer Barrier.
One thing is for sure.....had there not been a halo, Grojsean might have lost his head. Eventually even a halo will be defeated.
I have confidence that the FIA will come up with some even better safety measures. F1 has come quite a long way in regards to safety. This crash just proves that there is always room for improvement.
It is a pretty cool system. Hopefully they will investigate this crash and maybe move to something like Safer Barrier.
One thing is for sure.....had there not been a halo, Grojsean might have lost his head. Eventually even a halo will be defeated.
I have confidence that the FIA will come up with some even better safety measures. F1 has come quite a long way in regards to safety. This crash just proves that there is always room for improvement.
I know there are some "Max haters" out here, but this is a great interview:
I like him even more now, and his dad especially, since they mentioned my favorite driver and one of my top 5. And no, it's not lost on my Prost was Lauda's teammate (though he should have beat him in 1984 for WDC had it not been for half points at Monaco). I'm sure Prost learned a lot from Lauda. Lauda was a bad ass for sure.
These two guys are what I'd deem to be "pure racers."
I like him even more now, and his dad especially, since they mentioned my favorite driver and one of my top 5. And no, it's not lost on my Prost was Lauda's teammate (though he should have beat him in 1984 for WDC had it not been for half points at Monaco). I'm sure Prost learned a lot from Lauda. Lauda was a bad ass for sure.
These two guys are what I'd deem to be "pure racers."
Lewis Hamilton has COVID 19 and is out this weekend. This is a chance for Max to get past Bottas in the points for 2nd in the driver's championship or a chance for Bottas to prove why he is on Mercedes. Looks like George Russell will be racing in Lewis' spot. I sure hope Bottas steps the fuck up this weekend as his contract is up at the end of 2021 and by coincidence so is George Russells. If he out performs Bottas he might earn a seat at Mercedes in 2022.
Bitter sweet (hoping he makes a full recovery), but hopefully we get to actually see some damn competitive racing out front. I can’t wait. Ricciardo better show up and perform.
As I understand it, Lewis simply tested positive for COVID. I don't believe he has any symptoms. Hopefully he won't develop anything.
I am very interested to see how George does. He will be thrown in at the deep end to a certain extent, but since he is in the "Mercedes development chain" I am not surprised by the choice. I think He'll do pretty well. It will be interesting to see how Bottas does!
As for what happens after Lewis' and George's contracts are up, I think that will depend on what Lewis wants to do. I can't imagine him going anywhere else if he wants to continue driving. But if he chooses to step aside, I think George might be near the top of the list for the seat. We shall see! George was faster than Max in Practice 2! So far, so good!!
George was 0.1## fastest in FP2. I'd say there is a high chance he'll win it. I like George, but I really think if Max had that car, he'd destroy Hamilton, not just beat him. If George is already 0.25 sec faster than Bottas, imagine what he'll be in Quali. Bottas does well in "quali," but I'd like to see George beat him to keep his teammate streak alive. My dream grid....this weekend in order...Max, George, Albon, Norris, Ricciardo, Bottas.
I was most surprised with Bottas. I imagine that there is some serious mental fuckery going on there. He had someone completely unfamiliar with a car run circles around him. I think all of the offs are evidence that he was mentally not there. Qualifying could be interesting. If Bottas drives like he did today, he may be at risk of not getting to Q3.
Did he spin a lot today? Honestly, he would have been smarter IMO to try to go to Racing Point (before Seb got the job) or even better Renault or McClaren (before the old man got there). He'll never be #1 driver at Mercedes even after Hamilton leaves.
Well, we now can see the future of F-1. It's now clear that Hamilton would get his ass smoked by Max. Not to take anything away from George, in fact quite the contrary, but if George can qualify within 0.02 seconds of Bottas that shows just how dominant that car is. It also shows Hamilton isn't leaps and bounds better than anybody else, it's his car is so much better. My opinion only.
I agree. It would also be interesting to see Bottas and Max trade spots. I think Max would dominate Hamilton
George was robbed. Mercedes had to have screwed that tire change on purpose.
Bottas got fucked on that really hard. 6 seconds in the pit to only keep the same tires. SMDH
Agreed, Bottas got BOHICA. I knew they wouldn't let Russell win in Lewis's car, that would prove it was more car than driver.
Absolutely. Everyone knows he dominated today. There is no question he has proven himself.
I think after the botched tire change, that Russell had a chance, although very small, of at least P3. The come back around and then the puncture sealed the deal for Perez.
All in all, that was one of the most exciting races I've seen in F1 in years. F1 should really consider more races run this way (running alternate track configurations).
Max was really robbed in the sense that even had he been 3rd he would have capitalized on that mistake. My observations (not in any order)
1) Russell is the real deal, didn't even fall for Max's intimidation and played as a team to squeeze max off going into turn 1.
2) LeClerc is an ass. He about did that same thing to Seb last race and he did do it in one of previous 3 races IIRC this year.
3) The car, not Hamilton, is the reason he's racked up so many wins. I have no doubt if Max had that car, Hamilton would be almost Oh-Fer and if George were Hamilton's teammate I'd almost say it'd be even (George still has some learning, but is already getting close to peak). Not to take anything away from Russell, but if he pretty much smoked Bottas in race form, having driven the car for ohhhh. 2 days previous tells me the car is phenomenal and it also says Russell is a quick study (again, not trying to take away anything from George).
4) Albon is gone. Personally, I'd rather the "The Hulk" as Max's teammate because they get along well; but Checo deserves the drive. Proven himself day in and day out with Racing Point. I don't think Seb will do as well as Checo. No way Max will win consistently at RBR without a teammate to A) challenge him, B) support him and play the strategy game. I feel bad for Albon, as he needs to really replace Kyvat. Especially now that Honda has pulled out...what's the point of having a "Honda" kid??
5) Short track produced OUTSTANDING racing. Maybe the short track is best....puts more traffic into play and then designers cannot design a car to just be super bad ass at the front (one condition).
6) Of the new kids on the "mid-field teams) Russell > (LeClerc theoretically not midfield) > Norris > Stroll >= Gasley > Ocon. Never thought I'd rank Stroll above anybody, but his tire management (minus brake lockups) has been quite steller.
All great points. I wonder if the outcome of today's race will shake things up enough for some possible ins for Seb.
Also, I want to see George get the Merc seat next weekend. Its a faster track, and if things go well, he has a good chance of a podium.
Yes, hopefully Hamilton is still out; but I suspect after seeing that performance he wants to get back in so it won't be obvious to the people who didn't even watch the race,that the car is the reason.
"In's" for "Seb?" Or "in's" for Checo? Seb is employed by Aston Martin (Racing Point) next year. Unless I misunderstood your question.....highly possible.
Apologies. I did write Seb, and meant Checo.
Thoughts on Schumacher getting a seat with Haas next year?
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I like it. He’s done s great job in F2. The car will suck for him, but there maybe openings in 2022 depending on his contract.
The more I think about it Bottas got fucked hard by Mercede. Max was only 12 points back in the championship and now he’s only 16 points back. If Bottas has a mechanical next race Max could take 2nd. Mercedes fucked him. After 2021 I don’t see Bottas with Mercedes and it will be Mercedes decision.
I thought Schumacher was confirmed at Haas. I see Nick at Haas for 2 years, and then Ferrari will swoop in and likely replace the winner of LeClerc/Sainz battles. Marketing COUP despite the fact Michael was last competitive almost 20 years ago.
Flashback here:
Senna would be given about a 2 race ban and multiple points on his license with that stuff today. The Senna/Prost years (or roughly 82-93) were probably THE best in Formula 1. Nobody wants to say that, but I will. Prost, Senna, Mansell, Piquet, Lauda, Patrese and a host of other strong, but 2nd tier drivers.
Senna would be given about a 2 race ban and multiple points on his license with that stuff today. The Senna/Prost years (or roughly 82-93) were probably THE best in Formula 1. Nobody wants to say that, but I will. Prost, Senna, Mansell, Piquet, Lauda, Patrese and a host of other strong, but 2nd tier drivers.
Agreed! Those were some awesome years of racing in F1. All those guys were amazing to watch. It ain't really been the same since.
They need to change the car design on the newer cars. Reason for this is they are too wide. By being too wide they create too much turbulence in the air making it impossible to pass with out DRS. Also, really limits the tracks where they can race. For more reliability they need to get rid of the current power plants and go back to the V10s. JMO
Would love a normally aspirated "race" again...open it up to V-8,10,12. Hell, I even saw a special on the Porsche 919 program where Porsche, being on the committee for engines before the new rules were laid out which kept all that complicated shit, had designed a V-6 version of the V-4. Lot' s of hybrid stuff, but apparently a shit-ton less complicated and much cheaper. Sadly I never saw the 919 race
. As dominant as any 917/956/962. How much wider are the cars than say in the 80's? Those were pretty wide as well.
Best I can tell the new cars are THREE feet longer than in the 80's and about equal overall in width:
McLaren MP4/2 - Barnard’s Masterpiece Driven by Two Legends | SnapLap
The McLaren MP4/2 was a car which was a dominant force in the 1984 Formula 1 World Championship and ended the season by winning both trophies.
www.snaplap.net 
Mercedes W10 Technical Details
With a little over four weeks to go until the start of the 2019 FIA Formula One season, Mercedes-AMG Petronas Motorsport today completed the first laps with
www.f1-fansite.com I think the length is what dirties the air the most.
Would love a normally aspirated "race" again...open it up to V-8,10,12. Hell, I even saw a special on the Porsche 919 program where Porsche, being on the committee for engines before the new rules were laid out which kept all that complicated shit, had designed a V-6 version of the V-4. Lot' s of hybrid stuff, but apparently a shit-ton less complicated and much cheaper. Sadly I never saw the 919 race
How much wider are the cars than say in the 80's? Those were pretty wide as well.
Best I can tell the new cars are THREE feet longer than in the 80's and about equal overall in width:
McLaren MP4/2 - Barnard’s Masterpiece Driven by Two Legends | SnapLap
The McLaren MP4/2 was a car which was a dominant force in the 1984 Formula 1 World Championship and ended the season by winning both trophies.Mercedes W10 Technical Details
With a little over four weeks to go until the start of the 2019 FIA Formula One season, Mercedes-AMG Petronas Motorsport today completed the first laps with
I think the length is what dirties the air the most.
The current cars are 70.866 inches wide.
what's that in millimeters...ROFL.
How wide were the 80's early 90s cars? Those sheets seem to imply roughly same width but like I said, 3 feet more in length now. They're huge.
So Albon out. No shocker there as his performance was always way behind Max. Granted, Max is probably the best driver out there. We saw how "easy" it was for Russell to hop in a car he'd never driven an miss pole by 0.026 seconds which says that Mercedes is perfectly dialed in. No offense to George. I still say Max would destroy Hamilton in Hamilton's car.
Regardless, Perez will give Max some competition, and some support as well to go up against Mercedes and I expect a very good Aston Martin & McClaren Team with Renault likely becoming a factor with Alonso driving (though we'll see early on if he's still got mojo).
Regardless, Perez will give Max some competition, and some support as well to go up against Mercedes and I expect a very good Aston Martin & McClaren Team with Renault likely becoming a factor with Alonso driving (though we'll see early on if he's still got mojo).
I don't know if "destroy" would be the right word, but I'm sure he'd make Hamilton work very hard and be very frustrated! I would LOVE to see that!!
Yes, it will be interesting to see how Alonzo comes back online. I hope he's competetive, as is his team. It would be VERY refreshing to actually have three or four teams in with a legitimate shot at winning races. I'm pretty tired of the Mercedes domination. Let's get some different colors on the top step of the podium!!
Anybody getting excited for the new season yet? I've been seeing some of the new car intros and a few videos of some of the testing, and It's getting my blood pumping. Hopefully (I say this every year) we will have a more competitive season this year, and not another Mercedes run-away. One can only hope!
I'm excited for a new season, even as a Mercedes fan I'm tired of Lewis and Bottas winning almost every race with no real threat. Max has disappointed me a little, but I have some hopes for Vettel in the Aston Martin to put some pressure on Mercedes or at least RedBull.
I'm always excited for the new season. Like everyone else parroting what has been said for the last few years, "I am hoping it will be a competitive season" and that multiple drivers are standing on the podium. I am definitely looking forward to watching Norris and LeClerc continue to develop and am hoping Sainz can do good things at Ferrari.
Actually I’m not excited at all.
We all know MB is going to wrap it up by race 12.
with the way the rules are now, you don’t even need the season. Watch winter testing in Spain and that’s the winner.
I understand the cost saving idea but what made formula 1 special was the “idea” of maximum across the board.
now it’s open wheel nascar. At least irl/Indy has circuits and ovals to switch it up a little, and shuffle the order.
I wouldn’t mind if the actual lap times dropped with smaller engines etc. but let the engineers get some RPM back and make the cars a little stressful on the edge. they are so stable now because of the limiting rules taking a corner flat out like spa is attainable to even the new guy with the worst car Where before you needed courage.
and bring back refueling already...dying for it. Let there be a different race strategy because of fuel loads again.
We all know MB is going to wrap it up by race 12.
with the way the rules are now, you don’t even need the season. Watch winter testing in Spain and that’s the winner.
I understand the cost saving idea but what made formula 1 special was the “idea” of maximum across the board.
now it’s open wheel nascar. At least irl/Indy has circuits and ovals to switch it up a little, and shuffle the order.
I wouldn’t mind if the actual lap times dropped with smaller engines etc. but let the engineers get some RPM back and make the cars a little stressful on the edge. they are so stable now because of the limiting rules taking a corner flat out like spa is attainable to even the new guy with the worst car Where before you needed courage.
and bring back refueling already...dying for it. Let there be a different race strategy because of fuel loads again.
I have just gotten to where I expect MB and LH to win and pay them no attentions and watch the rest of the field lol I looking to see if McLaren and Aston Martin can be regular podium contenders.. The mid field is actually pretty good to pay attention to.
Even the official F1 coverage ignores the MB cars when they run off over the horizon. Once you get over "who's gonna win the race???" and look at all the racing going on in the midfield there is a lot to see and enjoy.
That said look at Italy where Gasly won, or Sakhir with Perez's last to first run. Great races.
It will be interesting to see if McLaren switching to Merc power will be a step forward for them.
Aston should be strong, but was dumping Perez for Seb the right move? At least the cars aren't pink any more.
Also, will the new2022 spec Honda power be a move up for Red Bull/Toro Ros.....err Alpha Tauri?
Will Ferrari show up and play???
That said look at Italy where Gasly won, or Sakhir with Perez's last to first run. Great races.
It will be interesting to see if McLaren switching to Merc power will be a step forward for them.
Aston should be strong, but was dumping Perez for Seb the right move? At least the cars aren't pink any more.
Also, will the new2022 spec Honda power be a move up for Red Bull/Toro Ros.....err Alpha Tauri?
Will Ferrari show up and play???
Not sure how anybody could be disappointed with Max last year. He had a few DNF's due to his car; not him. He had ZERO help from his teammate - I mean zero. Could never get a strategy together because Albon just couldn't bring the goods. I think having Perez will change this equation multiple ways: 1) new insight into getting handling better (Max can drive anything as we know, but how much is that hurting development??) 2) Perez WILL figure into qualifying mix for sure and push Max (double plus...push Max, get another car on same row or maybe 1 position behind
Vettel is NOT going to all of a sudden make Racing Point (err, Aston Martin) a winner. HE is FINISHED as an F-1 racer, yes, he can still drive, but he's just not got the goods anymore. If LeClerc can come in and kick his ass the very first year, that's not the car, that's the driver. Then seeing how Sainz drove in his Ferrari debut...tells me Sainz may put a hurting on LeClerc (I hope so, I cannot stand LeClerc).
That said, they need to make the engines rev higher, more mechanical failure needed. Cost window...screw that...they used to spend >250 MILLION dollars per team back in the day (IIRC). All this cost shit is due to the fact they're trying to be all green with the energy recovery systems. They should have gone with the Porsche recommendation like their 919 hybrid if they wanted low cost hybrids that would also open the door for different engine manufacturers. The engine issue is THE single biggest issue other than the aero-trickery. The engine issue keeps manufacturers out of the equation. Would Toyota come back in, GM, Ford, Hyundai, Tata, VAG (VW-Audi-Porsche-Lamborghini) if the engines were not so exotic with the recovery systems (who knows...they damn sure won't touch it now).
And yes, one should have balls the size of Jupiter to do Eau Rouge and Raidillon flat out (or impossible to do flat out). Ok, if they have to take part of the hill out and make it "safer" then do so, but those turns are IMNSHO the absolute best in all of motorsport and certainly they've been tried to be copied at plenty of tracks (Turkey). Much like The Corkscrew, it's a legend.
Vettel is NOT going to all of a sudden make Racing Point (err, Aston Martin) a winner. HE is FINISHED as an F-1 racer, yes, he can still drive, but he's just not got the goods anymore. If LeClerc can come in and kick his ass the very first year, that's not the car, that's the driver. Then seeing how Sainz drove in his Ferrari debut...tells me Sainz may put a hurting on LeClerc (I hope so, I cannot stand LeClerc).
That said, they need to make the engines rev higher, more mechanical failure needed. Cost window...screw that...they used to spend >250 MILLION dollars per team back in the day (IIRC). All this cost shit is due to the fact they're trying to be all green with the energy recovery systems. They should have gone with the Porsche recommendation like their 919 hybrid if they wanted low cost hybrids that would also open the door for different engine manufacturers. The engine issue is THE single biggest issue other than the aero-trickery. The engine issue keeps manufacturers out of the equation. Would Toyota come back in, GM, Ford, Hyundai, Tata, VAG (VW-Audi-Porsche-Lamborghini) if the engines were not so exotic with the recovery systems (who knows...they damn sure won't touch it now).
And yes, one should have balls the size of Jupiter to do Eau Rouge and Raidillon flat out (or impossible to do flat out). Ok, if they have to take part of the hill out and make it "safer" then do so, but those turns are IMNSHO the absolute best in all of motorsport and certainly they've been tried to be copied at plenty of tracks (Turkey). Much like The Corkscrew, it's a legend.
Not really into the racing myself but I found the Driver61 YouTube channel and he explains a lot of the cool tech behind f1 and some other racing disciplines.
Here is a good playlist to start on.
Also a good recent video he did.
Here is a good playlist to start on.
Also a good recent video he did.
I’m not sure seb is done I just don’t think he knows how to improve a car.
He was dominant when newey was running the show.
i do t think the drivers had much to do evolution wise, because he was a genius.
now seb goes to Ferrari that had the same problem since Schumacher left (he was known as a excellent communicator with engineering (just like Hamilton).
he a driver not a team leader, in my opinion.
He was dominant when newey was running the show.
i do t think the drivers had much to do evolution wise, because he was a genius.
now seb goes to Ferrari that had the same problem since Schumacher left (he was known as a excellent communicator with engineering (just like Hamilton).
he a driver not a team leader, in my opinion.
Fare assessment there. But to be a champion, one has to have the complete package. He was lucky with Newey as you said. He won't have a genius like Newey at Aston Martin (I don't think, unless Merc is going to help them a lot). I think Perez arriving at Red Bull may tell us how well Max communicates with engineering too. My guess is he's quite good as he's a fan of older cars with more diabolical handling traits that set apart men from boys (hence that's probably why he can drive the Red Bull). If you watch that video of him I posted with his father, he really expresses that desire.
I also would LOVE to see N/A vs Turbo motors again. But as Max and Jos said..bring back the V-10!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Speaking of development - WTF has Haas done??? Sorry, I've never been a Schumacher fan anyway, but just because he is the son, doesn't mean he's going to be able to develop that car which is what they need DESPARATELY. K-mag and Grosjean are just drivers (much like Seb), they needed somebody like young Schumacher teamed with The Hulk or somebody with a lot of experience(Hulk really impressed me in his substitute role and I'm really shocked Alpine has stuck with Ocon). Granted, the huge amount of experience Kimi is bringing doesn't seem to help Alfa.
Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Vettel, but it's plainly obvious he has zero clue on how to set-up a car. One wonders how much of his teammates settings he used at Red Bull. Fantastic driving capability once set up....but he just doesn't have that anymore (if ever).
The real fun will be watching Red Bull vs McLaren. I think Danny R may be quite inspired to compete with Max and push him and I also think Lando may give Ricciardo a run for his money. I don't see Alpine just becoming good overnight - even with F. Alonso who likely will be a few paces behind his peak. McLaren was smart and went after Porsche's race genius, and its showed almost instantly.
I can see the order as: MB, RB, McLaren, Ferrari, Aston, Alpine, Alpha Tauri, Alfa, Williams, Haas. Italics = a real battle.
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