I'm looking into doing a Recce style rifle. Or even a Mini Recce upper for my sbr. Thoughts and insight ..much greatly appreciated
- Thread starter Raffica762
- Start date
UPDATE: 06JUN19
Here is an update on my recce rifle I got the Vortex PST Gen 2 3-15x44 FFP in today. it's a little longer and a little bit heavier than I would have liked but it's actually a very nice piece of glass I was pleasantly surprised for the price range. my neighbors fence is exactly 109 yards away and I can see the nails in his fence clearly at that distance at 15X, so it'll be more than adequate for shooting groups and taking it out to extended ranges. I'm going to have to send the vortex precision mount back, it's just too far extended to run my 45° BUIS, and make up for my 14.5" length of pull. My Luth MBA-3 stock will be in tomorrow.
The cell phone pics don't do it any justice it looks like it's has bad CA but it doesn't.
The extended cantilever mount has a good 3" extension which is a bit too much. Even with the scope set all the way back in the rings I'm still rubbernecking it to get proper eye relief, on top of that it makes reading my parallax adjustments impossible.
But I can't say enough about how pleased I am with the clarity and the quality of the Gen 2 PS2 3-15x44.
Thank you Vortex, Thank you for supporting your First responders, Active Duty Military and Veterans.
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I really like my spec Recce rifle. If you get the Lilja SEAL Recce barrel you will need an adjustable gas block. They are overgassed to shit. 
Thank you...please keep the information coming
What are your expectations for the rifle? How far are you looking to shoot with this thing? You want this to be some type of clone? Unless it is going to be used within 300-400y, I would avoid a mini-RECCE. I just don't see the practicality in the short, scoped rifles.
I typically just use a good "mil spec" type barrel for standard RECCE builds (specifically the 16" Colt SOCOM they used to make) since I almost exclusively shoot surplus ammo through them. These barrels typically give me around 1.5moa with one of the brands of surplus I have laying around and can do better with better ammo. That being said my RECCE builds usually have 1-4,6,or 8x scopes and I consider them to be maxed out around 6-700y. If it were more of a purpose built precision gun, Shilen or Kreiger would be on my short list for barrels. I'm sure Lilja does a good job as well. But 16" barrel, 1-6or8x scope, quality FF rail, light, whatever accessories you like and you basically have your RECCE.
I built one off a 14.5" MRP that was a brick but a pretty good performer.
Probably would consider this one a RECCE too... a lot lighter and easier to handle than the MRP. Its basically a Colt EPR that I pieced together with that 16" SOCOM barrel and a 1-4x trijicon. Nothing that really broke the bank but still is a good shooter.
I typically just use a good "mil spec" type barrel for standard RECCE builds (specifically the 16" Colt SOCOM they used to make) since I almost exclusively shoot surplus ammo through them. These barrels typically give me around 1.5moa with one of the brands of surplus I have laying around and can do better with better ammo. That being said my RECCE builds usually have 1-4,6,or 8x scopes and I consider them to be maxed out around 6-700y. If it were more of a purpose built precision gun, Shilen or Kreiger would be on my short list for barrels. I'm sure Lilja does a good job as well. But 16" barrel, 1-6or8x scope, quality FF rail, light, whatever accessories you like and you basically have your RECCE.
I built one off a 14.5" MRP that was a brick but a pretty good performer.
Probably would consider this one a RECCE too... a lot lighter and easier to handle than the MRP. Its basically a Colt EPR that I pieced together with that 16" SOCOM barrel and a 1-4x trijicon. Nothing that really broke the bank but still is a good shooter.
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That's a pretty reasonable setup. I was talking more about your standard tube style LPVO. I've tried it and found it a bit unwieldy. Things might have been better with something a little lighter than the Triji 1-8x.
I put a rifle together for a friend with a LaRue steath 16" barrel that shot so good, I built another upper with the same set up.
I was reading about a guy with a 10.5" setup hitting out to 700 yards..light handy bad ass
Same. I run a Spectre 1,4x on my 10.5 Noveske. IMO, and as a general rule, running a true LPVO on anything less than 14.5 inches is a bit of a waste. Can you hit targets at 500m+ with a short barrled AR? Sure can if you are good enough. Is it the right tool for that job? Nope.
Now that be bad ass ..hmm
Um, I guess I accidentally kind of made one of my AR's into a "lightweight" "Recce" even before I ever heard of a "Recce" rifle.
Aero Precision M4E1 Upper/Lower, Geissele MK4 13" MLOK handguard, Faxon 16" 1:8 5.56Nato pencil profile barrel, Surefire brake, Velocity 3# match trigger. Leupold Mark AR Mod 1 1.5-4x with SPR FireDot reticle.
Don't mind the stupid grip fin thing. Here in California, that makes the rifle not scary anymore. I'm a lefty anyway, so it doesn't effect my handling of the rifle anyway.
Aero Precision M4E1 Upper/Lower, Geissele MK4 13" MLOK handguard, Faxon 16" 1:8 5.56Nato pencil profile barrel, Surefire brake, Velocity 3# match trigger. Leupold Mark AR Mod 1 1.5-4x with SPR FireDot reticle.
Don't mind the stupid grip fin thing. Here in California, that makes the rifle not scary anymore. I'm a lefty anyway, so it doesn't effect my handling of the rifle anyway.
I’ve ran through my fair share of ARs the past 9-10 years 18” all the way down to 10.5”. I always come back to the RECCE/SPR guns. I’m at a point in my life with kids and what not that I only have the ability to own so many guns and to be able to have other cool shit I only have an 11” colt/bcm SBR with a 1-6 razor for a gas gun. I’m seriously thinking of selling that and going to a 16”-18” and possibly even trading/selling the 1-6 and going the 2-10ish route too.
The LPVO helps to confirm the target, and PID. Some have great illumination (Vortex Razor 1-6 comes to mind), and still remain pretty forgiving at 1x.
I am mid-process of switching everything to have optics, with the possibility of offset red-dots on the 3-18x 14.5” rifle (eventually putting a 4-16 ATACR instead of the Vortex). Granted, I am a precision lover at heart, so big optics are fun to me.
I am mid-process of switching everything to have optics, with the possibility of offset red-dots on the 3-18x 14.5” rifle (eventually putting a 4-16 ATACR instead of the Vortex). Granted, I am a precision lover at heart, so big optics are fun to me.
I had to Google what a “Recce rifle” was. I’ve heard it referenced before but never took the time to look it up. I recently got something together that kinda fits the bill. I went 16.2” with a rifle length gas system & receiver extension. The barrel is a Bartlein 5R Heavy Service Rifle contour that we chambered in .223 Wylde.
Nice setup, who did the barrel?
Thank you guys for all the kick ass information
This is my 16" Recce. It was my attempt at a precision AR because I think every American should own one even if I don't personally like the CQ red dot ninja stuff. I have done drills at 2.5x anyways because always be prepared... I really need a sling and then I plan on switching the Timney trigger to a Geissele unit if I ever have spending cash again. It really needs a diet overall.
The Rainer Ultramatch barrel is unfluted and honestly too heavy. Very consistent, but I could of went lighter knowing what I know now. Weighs in at 10.2 lbs with 20 rounds loaded. It will take any flicker tail (way smaller than a prairie dog) with in 200 yards easily. I have run it out to 400 yards on a 6" target with some consistency.
The Rainer Ultramatch barrel is unfluted and honestly too heavy. Very consistent, but I could of went lighter knowing what I know now. Weighs in at 10.2 lbs with 20 rounds loaded. It will take any flicker tail (way smaller than a prairie dog) with in 200 yards easily. I have run it out to 400 yards on a 6" target with some consistency.
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i know traditional recce guns have match grade stainless barrels but my knights armament barrel shoots 1" groups, sometimes sub 1" groups using handloads. 2" groups or less using factory 77gr stuff.
atlas bipod not pictured, was doing some night shooting and took it off because it kept getting caught on one of my ripped gloves.
atlas bipod not pictured, was doing some night shooting and took it off because it kept getting caught on one of my ripped gloves.
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I saw my first true Recce rifle at Mid-South Shooting in 1998 with the ST6 "Red Team" snipers, where I was occasionally employed as a "target painter". The version in use at that time used 16" Krieger 1x7.7 twist SS barrels turned out by Compass Lake Engineering. The rails were KAC Long FF RAS in that odd length KAC used to make, shorter than 12". This forend worked perfectly with the screw-on Ops-Inc 3rd Model reflex-type suppressors. Phil Seeberger of Ops-Inc, when told of this application, said he had wondered what they were doing with those cans. The optic was the Leupold LR M3 in KAC scope rings, with the scope pushed as far forward as possible. They said they could get MOA groups at 600 yards with them.
The concept was so radical at that time.
My own current 16" Recce:
San Tan Tactical STT-15L matched billet receiver set; 16" Proof Research carbon fiber wrapped barrel with SLR adjustable gas system; Fortis Switch rail; LaRue MBT trigger; MSTN Ionbond DLC coated BCG with fitted bolt; Vltor A5 recoil system; Nightforce 2.5-10x42 in Spuhr SP-3026 mount; note the Trijicon RMR mounted at the right 3 o'clock position; V Seven, always, for titanium small parts; SPR grip; Magpul CTR; and, as the crowning touch, the new Thermal Defense Solutions Bantam II suppressor (8.4 ounce).
The concept was so radical at that time.
My own current 16" Recce:
San Tan Tactical STT-15L matched billet receiver set; 16" Proof Research carbon fiber wrapped barrel with SLR adjustable gas system; Fortis Switch rail; LaRue MBT trigger; MSTN Ionbond DLC coated BCG with fitted bolt; Vltor A5 recoil system; Nightforce 2.5-10x42 in Spuhr SP-3026 mount; note the Trijicon RMR mounted at the right 3 o'clock position; V Seven, always, for titanium small parts; SPR grip; Magpul CTR; and, as the crowning touch, the new Thermal Defense Solutions Bantam II suppressor (8.4 ounce).
I've put together a half dozen AR's, all in 16" fashion. But each built to a specific purpose that is better in one area than the other but can do all things if pressed. Like my wife's is lightweight with Aimpoint. Closer ranger, simple and light. Another is a Palmetto armory special pieced together with an EoTech that is strictly a range/practice rifle.
Another that's a little of a beast is a Gen 3 Noveske with F1 barrel that is the long-er distance tack driver. Then a BCM that has a 2-10 scope, a really good rifle. Then the one that started it all, a gen 1 Noveske Reece.
Another that's a little of a beast is a Gen 3 Noveske with F1 barrel that is the long-er distance tack driver. Then a BCM that has a 2-10 scope, a really good rifle. Then the one that started it all, a gen 1 Noveske Reece.
My idea of a "Mini-Recce": Bartlein 12.5" 1x7 with mid-length gas by Craddock Precision; SLR adjustable gas block; San Tan STT-15 billet receiver set; Hodge 11" rail; MSTN NM Ionbond DLC coated BCG; PRI Gas Buster; lots of V Seven titanium parts; Geissele SD3G trigger; Vltor A5 recoil system; Magpul CTR; SPR grip; Nightforce NX8 in LaRue SPR mount; and the new Thermal Defense Solutions Badger II suppressor (12 ounces).
Do you ever shoot these things for groups? I don't think I've ever seen you post a 6x5. I'd like to see how those PR carbon fiber barrels perform
Yes, I shoot for groups. I don't shoot six five shot groups when I do. I don't believe I have the attention span to be an effective bench rest shooter.
Once sighted in at 100, with sufficient chronograph data, I move to steel at distance, more entertaining for me. Or the next project in line.
The Proof barrels are among the most accurate I've ever owned, right up there with Craddock's Bartlein barrels.
Once sighted in at 100, with sufficient chronograph data, I move to steel at distance, more entertaining for me. Or the next project in line.
The Proof barrels are among the most accurate I've ever owned, right up there with Craddock's Bartlein barrels.
I'm in the process of finishing up another one just like this... But in 6.5 Grendel with the 20" Proof Research SS.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/precision-recce-rifle.6942881/
Dennis and some of the other guys at Proof are even looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
I’d be thrilled to have a 20” 6.5 G with a Proof barrel. Maybe the best cartridge yet for the old AR’.
Great chassis choice you made. The LaRue Stealth 2.0 is among the very best ways I’ve found to maximize the accuracy produced by a given barrel. It’s nearly impossible to find that product on the LaRue website, too.
Great chassis choice you made. The LaRue Stealth 2.0 is among the very best ways I’ve found to maximize the accuracy produced by a given barrel. It’s nearly impossible to find that product on the LaRue website, too.
Here are a couple of mine. Bottom one in the first pic is my 16" "recce" in 223 Wylde. Top one is pretty much the same thing but in 308; don't know if I'd call it a "recce" but it's real similar.
I suppose this one would fit the bill of a "mini-recce" although I hadn't thought of it that way before. 12.5" 6.5 Grendel, it's actually easier to hit with at distance than the 16" 223 above, but much handier inside a room or in thick woods.
I suppose this one would fit the bill of a "mini-recce" although I hadn't thought of it that way before. 12.5" 6.5 Grendel, it's actually easier to hit with at distance than the 16" 223 above, but much handier inside a room or in thick woods.
@Yondering
Hi, how are you liking the Leupold 3-9 optics? Would you trade them for a good 1-6 LPVO?
Kinda thinking about going with a medium magnification scope over my current 1-6x and I also have a 12.5” barrel.
Know its a necro thread post but its relevant.
Hi, how are you liking the Leupold 3-9 optics? Would you trade them for a good 1-6 LPVO?
Kinda thinking about going with a medium magnification scope over my current 1-6x and I also have a 12.5” barrel.
Know its a necro thread post but its relevant.
for me the point of a short barrel is to own close spaces
3-9 mag range owns the 50-600 range.
3-9 mag range owns the 50-600 range.
not a fan of that configuration but if ur keen to try it, see how it works for you
what 1-6 are you currently running?
what 1-6 are you currently running?
SWFA 1-6. Having to send it back due to a frozen magnification ring though. Seemingly happened overnight without any reason. Stuck between 1.1-1.4x. Either I'll get another one, store credit, or a refund. It is currently the best optic on the market for my needs and wants currently under 1k, just sucks that the ring is now impossible to turn.
Meanwhile, I'm taking this time to see if I'm better off getting a lighter weight 2-10/3-9ish optic with an offset MRDS instead.
If Nightforce would make a NXS 2.5-10x32mm in FFP with a Mil-R reticle, <20oz, <12", (illumination doesn't matter and I'd rather have parallax adjustment) I'd buy it as soon as it came out.
Meanwhile, I'm taking this time to see if I'm better off getting a lighter weight 2-10/3-9ish optic with an offset MRDS instead.
If Nightforce would make a NXS 2.5-10x32mm in FFP with a Mil-R reticle, <20oz, <12", (illumination doesn't matter and I'd rather have parallax adjustment) I'd buy it as soon as it came out.
I have a leupold 3-9 tactical (older mark 4 type). It's a great scope for an AR15. Unfortunately they haven't been made for quite awhile and the current ones like the 3hd are mediocre. Not terrible but not worth the 600-700$ retail they charge imho.
Good question, and good excuse for me to drop back in and look around since I haven’t been in here in a while.
I was just out this afternoon actually, shooting my 12.5” 243 LBC out here in the high desert of eastern Oregon. A lot of people think a setup like this is for close range, but we went out to 750 yards successfully, using 105gr Match Burners at 2450 fps.
This was with one of the discontinued 3-9x Mark AR mod 1 scopes. Obviously those are not normally considered a long range optic but for a light weight package (this is in a 17 Designs folding lower and I carry it in a backpack for traveling) it fits my uses just fine and actually seems to dial as it should.
To answer your question though; personally no, I definitely would not go back to a 1-6 or 1-8 optic field this. I like the light weight and long eye relief in this 3-9x, and don’t feel that it limits me at any useful range of this rifle. Someone above said a 3-9x is for 50-600 yards, and maybe that’s true for gun games, but out in the woods I have no problem at 10 yards, in out to well over 1K. YMMV of course as everyone’s eyes and comfort level is different, but that 1x-3x range is something I just don’t miss.
I’ll also point out that I’ve used a fixed 6x SWFA on this rifle, which was OK from 50 yd in out IF I had time to fiddle with the parallax adjustment, but I felt that it was too limiting at closer ranges for active use (I.e. not at a static shooting range bench). It was also too big and bulky for this small rifle IMO.
Have also tried the fixed 10x and 3-9x SWFA, with similar complaints about size and weight although the 3-9x SS was pretty good other than being functionally a 4-9x.
I've tried just about every type of LPVO and I keep coming back to the 3-15 range optic because all my shooting is precision oriented, the Vortex I had was very clear but just too long so I went with the MK5 3-18 and couldn't be happier, although as far as LPVO's go the Nightforce 1-8's and the new Vortex GEN3 1-10 are pretty nice and if I was just banging steel that's the route I would take.
@Yondering I appreciate the response. I was actually considering the SWFA 3-9 because it is currently the only FFP optic that is sub 20oz. Still a tad long though for a short gun. If still had my 16" barrel it'd probably fit better.
@bigjake83 I like the NF 1-8 offerings, but that is simply not a realistic budget for me. I actually didn't care for the Vortex when I played with one. Sure it was great to look through, but I am not a HUGE fan of holding over and would rather use actual turrets seen on the NF ones and the SWFA 1-6. The Vortex would be ideal though if you are fine with using the reticle to hold over.
As far as longer ranges (>500 yards), I have a WOA 20" rifle for that with a Vortex PST g2 3-15. I see the Recce rifle (14.5-16" barrel) as a sub 500y rifle and mini-recce rifles (<14.5" barrel) as sub 300 yards for reliable effect on soft tissue.
@bigjake83 I like the NF 1-8 offerings, but that is simply not a realistic budget for me. I actually didn't care for the Vortex when I played with one. Sure it was great to look through, but I am not a HUGE fan of holding over and would rather use actual turrets seen on the NF ones and the SWFA 1-6. The Vortex would be ideal though if you are fine with using the reticle to hold over.
As far as longer ranges (>500 yards), I have a WOA 20" rifle for that with a Vortex PST g2 3-15. I see the Recce rifle (14.5-16" barrel) as a sub 500y rifle and mini-recce rifles (<14.5" barrel) as sub 300 yards for reliable effect on soft tissue.
An old 14.5” noveske Afghan barrel
Ops inc 16th model Suppresor
Mega receiver set
Timney custome elite
NF 1-8.
Ill try to shoot a fresh group tomorrow to post
But it’s a great rifle and it’s very capable
The only thing I plan on changing is the rail, I’ll putt an SLar on it soon
Looks great
This is a very nice rig. I'm hoping to put something similar together when I get back from the sandbox in October.
Have the following:
-Colt lower and assorted lower doo-dad parts, SOPMOD stock or Bravo whatever things
-Bravo Co. Thermo-fit upper
-Colt heavy SOCOM profile barrel 14.5 (found 2 brand new recently
thanks SharkArms )-Geissele Mk14 13" handguard
-KAC BUIS
Surefire and Ops Inc #12 muzzle devices for either my RC2 or AEM5 can.
Debating LVPO vs dot. I can zero the dot at 33m/36y and be poa/poi out to 350-ish with center mass/chest hold. Which, for me, is plenty good. I have zero desire to be like the "muh 5-5-6 can ring muh steel plate at 727.3 yards after 20 attempts" crowd.
We shall see.
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I built this one about five years ago based on an 18" Faxon Gunner barrel. It shoots really well with 77 Noslers. The target is at 400 yards if I remember correctly.
The goal was to get it to fit in a smaller soft case so I could take it on business trips when I could drive, and not get the evil eye when I go into a hotel.
The goal was to get it to fit in a smaller soft case so I could take it on business trips when I could drive, and not get the evil eye when I go into a hotel.
Seems like that still screams “gun case” to anyone who cares to notice. I have a short grey case just like it but never felt like an 18” or 16” carbine like that was small enough to fool anybody.
That’s why I have a few different 9”-12” setups with folding stocks to carry in a backpack though.
Get a larger rolling suitcase, take the upper off, and stow it in this concept to save space.
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A 16", if I did it again I'd do the 14.5" pin and weld with a shorter handguard. I don't need 15" worth of keymod holes. The green mountain stainless barrel shoots surprisingly well too.
Tried out the SAI 1-6x on my 10.3”. This gun shoots great. Reached out to 425yds.
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