Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

[fargo007]

I swim the CSS (Combat Side Stroke) on the clock for fitness and wondering if there's anyone else here doing so. Turning a 500 in 10:03 with open turns, but of course I'd like to get faster.

I am also taking a TI (Total Immersion) workshop this weekend to get my freestyle faster and more efficient. Wondering if anyone has experience with them.

--Fargo007

 

[JRose]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

I have a TI dvd, but have only watched a little bit of it. I can't tell you about CSS because all I do is freestyle, but it did have some good info in the DVD. I need to finish watching the rest of it....

 

[fargo007]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

I started looking around for what was the top physical fitness standard that incorporated strength, endurance and also had emphasis on swimming in there. I wanted something where the score of each event reduces numerically so I could track progress. The seals PST is the only one that fit the bill. So I basically learned the CSS just for that. It's been a lot of fun swimming it. I'm surprised how fast and efficient it is.

I am actually faster with CSS than freestyle now, which is why I'm trying TI out.

I do have a DVD on CSS with drills and such on it. If you want to trade the TI disc for a while in exchange for the CSS one let me know.

--Fargo007

 

[300WSM]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

check out faster fast series by championship sports. Might as well learn free from the best

Total i whatever it is doesn't hold a candle light to it. I promise

 

[jimbowe]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

I'm guessing the point of the CSS is to accommodate surface swimming with fins? Maybe it creates less of a splash and noise. I'm sure it's not more efficient that freestyle (well, "crawl stroke") without fins.

 

[Mike]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

CSS is made for the most distance with the least energy. It was created to be used with fins.

It is, by far, the most efficient stroke when used with fins.

 

[fargo007]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

CSS works both with, and without fins. It is taught in several .mil schools but I think the Navy pioneered it. I only swim without fins at this point. I have no open water to train in.

300wsm, thanks for the pointer on that. I will check it out. I don't swim sprint. Mostly long distance, 500, 550, 1/2 to over 1 mile.

I have a hard time self-repairing with freestyle errors. I know what I'm doing wrong because I video it. Even seeing it, without a coach I still go back to bad habits. Wide arm recovery, lazy catch, poor rotation. As far as FS, I need a coach and a regular ass-whuppin. I can ace all the drills individually.

Between the two, I have found CSS a LOT easier to become competitive with. I mean by FAR. I'm going to hit the 9:xx's in a 500, and very soon.

--Fargo007

 

[jheat308]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

CSS is the way. Many helpful vids on youtube of it

 

[perkantino]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

CSS for stealth, not efficiency.

 

[JRose]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

I don't see how CSS can possibly be fast or efficient for distance swimming. I'd be willing to try it though.

 

[JRose]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

OK, I swam 2400 yards today freestyle and attempted the CSS a little. I can do it, but it just seems awkward. I'll try it some more later.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

I don't know what all the fancy terms are but I swam freestyle competition in the military - and when I do swim laps - strictly underwater. Builds the lung power.

 

[Mustafa]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

I really like TI. Just based off watching the videos, I managed to go from half drowning trying to swim a 50 yard swim to being able to handle a 500 yard swim and probably more!

 

[fargo007]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see how CSS can possibly be fast or efficient for distance swimming. I'd be willing to try it though. </div></div>

I'm sorry I didn't see responses here for a while.

It's not as fast as freestyle, assuming the swimmer is equally skilled in both.

But it is very efficient in terms of how much glide you get per stroke. More than freestyle in my opinion. At least more than mine. My TI seminar is this weekend. Hopefully I can improve the freestyle. Right now I'm under 10:00 for the seal 500y pst CSS swim, and I have a hard time matching that with freestyle. I can gut it out, but the rest of the PST is very hard on upper body strength and legs, and the first pushup commences after only 10min rest following the swim. I do not have the same amount of gas left in the tank if I do the 500Y freestyle (which isn't allowed anyway).

--Fargo007

 

[maddesign]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

been training for a triathlons this past year and tried TI, took some good points from it, but what really helped me with my form for speed and efficiency is swimsmooth.com

 

[Mike]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fargo007</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see how CSS can possibly be fast or efficient for distance swimming. I'd be willing to try it though. </div></div>

I'm sorry I didn't see responses here for a while.

It's not as fast as freestyle, assuming the swimmer is equally skilled in both.

But it is very efficient in terms of how much glide you get per stroke. More than freestyle in my opinion. At least more than mine. My TI seminar is this weekend. Hopefully I can improve the freestyle. Right now I'm under 10:00 for the seal 500y pst CSS swim, and I have a hard time matching that with freestyle. I can gut it out, but the rest of the PST is very hard on upper body strength and legs, and the first pushup commences after only 10min rest following the swim. I do not have the same amount of gas left in the tank if I do the 500Y freestyle (which isn't allowed anyway).

--Fargo007
</div></div>

Fargo, Do I understand you correctly? You are saying you swim faster CSS than you do freestyle? Second, what do you mean (which isn't allowed anyway). What isn't allowed, where?

 

[fargo007]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

At this point my CSS is faster than freestyle in a 500 or 550. This is about to change though. See below.

I meant that the freestyle stroke isn't allowed for the Navy seal PST test. It must be done CSS or breast stroke with open turns.

I'm headed off to the second day of my TI seminar this morning.
I cannot believe the difference this has made in one day. I got across the pool in eight easy strokes yesterday.

--Fargo007

 

[Mike]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fargo007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I meant that the freestyle stroke isn't allowed for the Navy seal PST test. It must be done CSS or breast stroke with open turns.
</div></div>

When did this change?

 

[fargo007]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

It has always been that way. CSS or breast stroke only. You cannot swim freestyle on the PST.

--Fargo007

 

[fargo007]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

I did the two day Total Immersion workshop this weekend.

Wow.

It was highly technical with a stroke study done on every one of the participants. The coach was an experienced triathlete, and had a crazy-good understanding of body mechanics. There are a number of difficult drills you do, and subtle corrections are made until you have got each one right. We did before and after videotaping and seeing the transformation of yourself was really exciting. He also checked out my CSS and spotted my scissor kick setup going too wide. My legs are grinding me to a halt when I am setting the scissor kick up. I'm in the 9's even with that stop-start so once I fix that I expect to improve it a lot.

I just had to quantify the difference, so I went to the pool today. The last time I swam a 10 lap, 25y pool 500Y FS, I was 10:36 - atrocious.

Today I swam a comfortable, relaxed FS and only worked hard on the last lap. Open turns..... I honestly wasn't trying to kill it at all, and it's the first time using the techniques so I don't have them all down perfect yet.

I videotaped it (that's how I time myself) 9:22. I had to watch it three times to make sure I didn't miss a lap.

I am overjoyed at the difference in my performance. I strongly recommend the TI program if you want to improve your freestyle stroke.

--Fargo007

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fargo007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I meant that the freestyle stroke isn't allowed for the Navy seal PST test. It must be done CSS or breast stroke with open turns.
</div></div>

When did this change? </div></div>

Since at least '93 when I went in. Breast was strongly discurraged as you would be CSS while at school (at least Dive/EOD donno about BUD/s) so it was prefered you knew it before hand. SAR could freestyle for the in test not sure if that still the case or not...been out of that side of things for a long time (blown disks) and not current on Blue/Gold stuff anymore.

 

[Mr Silverman]

Re: Anyone here swimming CSS or FS total immersion?

TI is great for learning to do freestyle. I cannot comment on the CSS and its applications for it.

I competed in triathlons in College (1h57m Olympic/Intl) and our coach promoted the TI swimming method. My assessment of it is that it is great for making new / less experienced swimmers more comfortable with freestyle and making it easier by improving your form which allowed them to swim longer and make cardio / mental gains.

As a competitor though I felt that aspects of it were good, (long stroke, aerodynamic (hydrodynamics?), but disagreed that it was ideal for overall faster swimming. I will caveat all of that though by saying the swim was my worst part of the race.

TLR - TI is a great way to learn to swim and make quick gains in Freestyle.