Are the FN SPR enthusiasts extinct?
- Thread starter mahiman
- Start date
Most likely the fact that the m24 had a 20+year head start on it and the M40 a 30+ year record. Combine that with the fact that the military already had trained staff on working on the remington 700 platform dating back to Vietnam and FN was a foreign company....
When they decided to update the m40 the SPR offered no measurable improvement in what the military is looking for. Still a 5 round 7.62 and it's not like the Marines sweats the fact m40 barrels need changing every 10000 rounds. They have full time staff(2112) to do just that as rifles rotate in.
Now, if the question was why didn't the US Gov adopt M70s instead of Rem 700s its probably because the CRF action went extinct in 1964 and the general opinion of most shooters about the push feed M70 was it wasn't as good as the pre 64.
When they decided to update the m40 the SPR offered no measurable improvement in what the military is looking for. Still a 5 round 7.62 and it's not like the Marines sweats the fact m40 barrels need changing every 10000 rounds. They have full time staff(2112) to do just that as rifles rotate in.
Now, if the question was why didn't the US Gov adopt M70s instead of Rem 700s its probably because the CRF action went extinct in 1964 and the general opinion of most shooters about the push feed M70 was it wasn't as good as the pre 64.
Its a shame that the FN didn't take more of a foothold. Its a very nice rifle and accurate to boot. Having the love of CRF engrained in me I just can't let go of the love for Win 70s. The aftermarket support for Rem 700 and clones has all but destroyed any support for Model 70s. As a custom rifle build they have no equal IMO.
Agree. I own 2 times as many M70s as 700 pattern rifles.
The 700 was cheap to produce and easy to work on. The flat bottomed m70 was neither cheap or(comparatively) easy to work on. I wonder if winchester hadn't went push feed in 64 if the m40 would have been built on the m70 as Carlos wanted. Would it have been a markedly improved rifle? I doubt it, but I would have liked it more.
The 700 was cheap to produce and easy to work on. The flat bottomed m70 was neither cheap or(comparatively) easy to work on. I wonder if winchester hadn't went push feed in 64 if the m40 would have been built on the m70 as Carlos wanted. Would it have been a markedly improved rifle? I doubt it, but I would have liked it more.
FN was always behind the ball and probably still is. I think they prioritize their other markets over civilian which I understand. They've always struggled with certain lines and the SPR was definitely one of them. Everyone knew they were quality but countless people asked them for updated features and calibers to no avail. All manufacturers do it but FN could have locked up a pretty solid chunk of market.
FN makes (obviously) almost all of the machine guns for the US military... I'm guessing from a business standpoint, they're not too worried about a few thousand bolt action rifles.
For what it's worth, I own [and love] an SPR.
For what it's worth, I own [and love] an SPR.
FN SPR’s were also pretty pricey for their time compared to a Remington SPS.
I mean, they came with a very high quality stock and were accurate out of the box. At the time you could buy a Remington action used for $275, Krieger for $300, McMillan stock for $450 and get a gun built for the cost of a SPR. An AI was only another $1000 more than an SPR A5M.
I mean, they came with a very high quality stock and were accurate out of the box. At the time you could buy a Remington action used for $275, Krieger for $300, McMillan stock for $450 and get a gun built for the cost of a SPR. An AI was only another $1000 more than an SPR A5M.
FN owns Winchester, they could have just let them release it and helped keep Winchester relevant in the market. I mean hell even Browning has started making tactical target rifles but Winchester, who already had the basis of the SPR, still hasn’t over a decade later.
I love my Model 70’s but their reluctance to release an upgraded target model is the reason I moved on from them and into the custom market.
I get this, there's a lot of innovative stuff FN or winchester could have done.
However, people still be buying regular ass model 700s, like their most basic and cheap ones, only to upgrade them make them better.
I'd take an m70 over a 700 all day everyday. You're already starting with a much superior action soooo...
I guess what I'm saying is, the fact that they didn't innovate much shouldn't be a deterring factor.
I agree 100% and FN/Winchester/Browning is gonna do what they feel makes them money at the end of the day. But how the HELL does the leading lever action gunmaker release a new straight walled cartridge (350 Legend) and only chamber it for bolt action and semi auto rifles? Whomever is leading their innovation department needs to be fired.
I disagree because the more relevant and popular the guns are the more the aftermarket will support them. In reality it was a bunch of different things but if FN had put more effort into them they could have taken more of the market which would eventually lead to more aftermarket.
I'm not arguing which is more relevant or has more aftermarket support. The r700 is probably higher in those regards. I still think the m70 is a better rifle so I personally would prefer to build on it.
Regardless, there is more than enough support for m70 rifles.
Anything you could need, they make for it.
How 'bout readily available detachable box magazine bottom metals? Haha
You clearly haven't looked. I can buy one that takes AI mags right now if I wanted.
Sorry, I meant you can buy ONE, and only ONE... Like there's only one option... Well two, if you're feeling generous.
Much as I like my SPR, I haven’t found a 2-stage that’s field-worthy and doesn’t cost a fortune…
Oh I gotcha. Yeah, like I said earlier, it doesn't rank as high in aftermarket support like 700s but you can still find stuff...
I've been really happy with single stage triggers that I actually haven't looked for 2 stage. So yeah, I'll admit that you may not be able to find 2 stage triggers.
I guess everyone can have their own opinion, not blaming anyone because yeah, m70s have less options. Somehow though, I find it to be superior to the 700 and would take a 70 any day.
That chassis is no longer offered for a M70. Only PT&G makes a DMB kit, and it requires modified magazines, almost Noone makes a trigger, manners doesn't even list them for a inlet, so yeah, pretty much "good enough"...
I absolutely love the m70/spr rifles. But FN gave about 0.2% of a shit about civilian markets and the platform did not live as long as it could have with a little development from either FN or winchester.
Looking at winchesters current line up and availability it appears they are barely hanging on.
Basically, I wish someone would remake the CDI DBM. If I could just have that.....
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Tell me more about the modified magazines for the PTG bottom metal?
You do know MDT window mags were made slightly narrower in order to work with m70 rifles?
Or knowing that, you still have to modify mags/open up the action magwell in order to get mags to work?
I get it though. Manners not listing stocks for them doesn't mean they can't make one. Have you tried calling?
I know there aren't many aftermarket triggers out there. I acknowledged this previously when basher made a comment on it. The factory trigger is so good with the McCarbo trigger spring that I haven't felt a need to replace my 3 m70 triggers.
So yeah, you can still build a "custom precision" rifle with whatever little options you have to upgrade or replace factory parts. You won't be able to be very picky with what you want to buy for it but what's out there does work. That was mostly my main point. And with those limited options, I'd still take the m70 over a 700.
But yes, I absolutely get it, not everyone will agree that the m70 is a better action simply because there is very very little aftermarket support.
I believe that the front of mags has to be machined down for the PTG bottom metal because the front of the mag hits the bottom of the action.
I know manners WILL make a stock, and see no reason to ditch the McMillian.
My trigger is acceptable. It is not even close to the timney in my 700. It has been adjusted and I may try the spring.
Hell it's even hard to find a Pic rail that's not custom order or the Badger that's on it. I like the badger but options are nice.
This is my main rifle. I trust it. I shoot it well. Honestly I just want a DBM that accepts AICS mags and am willing to have the bottom machined to do it. I think it someone duplicated the CDI cut on a m70/spr the PTG kit would work fine. I may have to try it, but right now I am saving to rebarrel this damned thing. I'm 6000ish rounds in and the groups, while not horrible, are getting bad. I NEED .5 moa accuracy for F T/R and my scores are dropping.
I know manners WILL make a stock, and see no reason to ditch the McMillian.
My trigger is acceptable. It is not even close to the timney in my 700. It has been adjusted and I may try the spring.
Hell it's even hard to find a Pic rail that's not custom order or the Badger that's on it. I like the badger but options are nice.
This is my main rifle. I trust it. I shoot it well. Honestly I just want a DBM that accepts AICS mags and am willing to have the bottom machined to do it. I think it someone duplicated the CDI cut on a m70/spr the PTG kit would work fine. I may have to try it, but right now I am saving to rebarrel this damned thing. I'm 6000ish rounds in and the groups, while not horrible, are getting bad. I NEED .5 moa accuracy for F T/R and my scores are dropping.
I honestly think the window mags from MDT may just work without modifying them. They are made slimmer up front specifically for win70 actions. Although I haven't tried that combo so take that as you may.
I've tried other AI mags in my SPR and they all hit, except for these that I mention.
It may be worth a shot!
If not, then yeah, the bottom of the action where the magwell is will have to be opened up but most smiths can do that. I may have the PDF file somewhere that shows a drawing/blueprint of dimensions to machine the action.
I mean… my FN SPR with CDI bottom metal is always available for an absurdly high price!
If you have the PDF send it to me. I will open mine up and order the PTG kit.
I will also order some of the MDT mags when I order the kit.
I'm gonna look for it and see if I can find it.
Do you have an email you want to PM me?
I run standard AICS mags with my PTG DBM metal.
And it runs like an open sore.
In 25 years it has never had a feed issue.
Please keep in mind 2 qualifiers:
1) my action bottom has been milled
2) my action is a WIN M70sa
@Action Guy is an incredible source of knowledge and wisdom in regards to both the Winchester M70 and the FN
And it runs like an open sore.
In 25 years it has never had a feed issue.
Please keep in mind 2 qualifiers:
1) my action bottom has been milled
2) my action is a WIN M70sa
@Action Guy is an incredible source of knowledge and wisdom in regards to both the Winchester M70 and the FN
I believe there are 2 types of PTG bottom metals for m70 rifles. Do you have the wide mouth?
MDT still offers the ESS chassis for Win 70 short action and the FN actions. It feeds well from their metal magazines.
I'm sure you could order that way. If you search for an hour you can find it eventually. You can't find it directly from the front page of the website nor directly from the ESS chassis page, you have to go to model specific accessories and order the base there. Here is the link where it shows available in the drop down.
ESS Chassis Base
mdttac.com
I believe you are correct.
But I will have to verify, it has been so long ago I am not 100% sure.
It works as it should I just despise the business operation and customer service.
Jeff @ CDI was such a pleasure.
Good. I plan to order 1 and give it a try. My SPR is my go to rifle. I wish it took AICS mags and I am hoping to try the trigger spring kit. That's about it.
Man I feel real lucky I bought a cdi bottom metal when I did.
I don't even know what bottom metal I had installed, but it takes AICS mags and I love that 100%. Its messed up that bottom metal has become an issue for these great weapons.
PB
PB
The original factory bottom metal and 4 shot magazine were problematic (e.g. crap). Jeff from CDI come up with a wonderfully solution. Unfortunately his early demise reopened that problem.
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I didn't realize the factory setup was problematic it never gave me issues but I didn't shoot it much before sending it to CDI. The whole reason I did it was I wanted 10rd mags.
And finding mags is next to impossible. My 4 rounder has been 100%, but I would rather have 10 round AICS mags that will be in production for the foreseeable future.
I still can’t believe another company hasn’t bought out his design, patents if he had them, etc to keep bottom metal going. And not just for FN/Winchesters. He made bottom metal for a lot of bolt action rifles.
His stuff was good no doubt and he made bottom metal for some oddball configurations but my opinion is that he was successful because he had customer service second to none and did installs for cheap/free. He just made it easy. I'm one of those guys that shouldn't mess around with tools too much when it comes to stuff like inletting that requires a certain touch.
Jeff was such a good dude. I lived in Tampa for a bit and actually drove down with rifle in hand and multiple occasions. Go in have a chat go get lunch come back and it was perfect. Customer service was top notch. I thought for a long time that it was surprising no one carried that on and bought his stuff from his wife, oh well. Sad loss for sure. I was actually waiting on a phone call from him and his wife returned his voicemails and told me of the news. He did quite a bit for the shooting community around there.
I think a couple if people have tried to get rights and have been told no.
I think the PTG is ugly but I'm going to call and see if they are ACTUALLY in stock before I order. If it run I will use it happily.
I think the PTG is ugly but I'm going to call and see if they are ACTUALLY in stock before I order. If it run I will use it happily.
Seeing all the recent activity on this thread made me decide to get some range time in with my SPR. I forgot how much I like this gun.
Mine went deer hunting last weekend for antlerless season. Took a nice doe at 160 yards. Put it right where I wanted.
