It seems to me that the Articles of Confederation was superior to the Constitution in most every way and many of the early men of the time thought so as well. I’m still learning but it seems to me that the Constitution was a big mistake and where the problems faced today originate from. It made way for the behemoth, corrupt, and criminal federal gov’t that bears down today. In my opinion the anti-federalists were absolutely right and the constitution is anything but the greatest American document and this country is becoming more and more fucked because of it.
- Thread starter wade2big
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Do a bit of reading on what the anti-federalists knew would happen with the adoption of the constitution that basically centralized power and gave it to the fed. They were right. The constitution wasn’t loved and cherished at the time at all. It’s story has been romanticized and propagandized into the fairy tale we are taught today.
All I'm going to say is, articles of confederation, constitution whatever, America was not a nice place to live for anyone but the rich and powerful until a bit after the Shay's rebellion made high and mighty George Washington who only cared about his legacy, get off his ass and help get the bill of rights passed.
Then life in America became a lot better for the average folk.
Then life in America became a lot better for the average folk.
Right off the bat the federal gov’t started taxing the fuck out of people and flexing it’s power. Tyrants gonna tyrant. Those that want to rule over others don’t deserve the job. The American story isn’t much different.
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Those that supported the constitution were the wealthy men of the time who wanted the gov’t to have more control over the people. The anti-federalists were obviously the opposite who wanted to maintain personal sovereignty by having a small limited gov’t. They wanted local gov’t to retain the power.
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Here is a link to the Anti-Federalist Papers. These men called it right. Their fears became reality. Click on a few and read through the. If you have some time.
thefederalistpapers.org
ANTI-FEDERALIST PAPERS
The Anti-Federalist Papers During the period from the drafting and proposal of the federal Constitution in September, 1787, to its ratification in 1789 there was an intense debate on ratification. […]
thefederalistpapers.org If you know the current government is broken, why would you return to the one before that was determined to be broken (by the same people who instituted it) less than 10 years after it originated.
Our current government needs to be fixed. But any fix should probably be closer to what we currently have than what we previously had. Reason: We have prospered for 200 years under it: This system of govt has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system yet invented.
Even the anti-federalists admitted the Articles of Confederation had failed.
Its a scale:
AOC (too little power--nothing gets done) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Constitution (too much power)
So whether you reform or re-write, the AOC are not something to idolize. As usual wade brings his own person bias of "wealthy just want to fuck everyone, everyone is evil" People recognized the original US government wasn't working. Yes, there was fierce debate over the current constitution. Try to get people to agree on anything. There is going to be debate. There has to be some government (calling it here "FUCKING STATIST") but of course too much power brings us to our current misery.
Our current government needs to be fixed. But any fix should probably be closer to what we currently have than what we previously had. Reason: We have prospered for 200 years under it: This system of govt has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system yet invented.
Even the anti-federalists admitted the Articles of Confederation had failed.
Its a scale:
AOC (too little power--nothing gets done) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Constitution (too much power)
So whether you reform or re-write, the AOC are not something to idolize. As usual wade brings his own person bias of "wealthy just want to fuck everyone, everyone is evil" People recognized the original US government wasn't working. Yes, there was fierce debate over the current constitution. Try to get people to agree on anything. There is going to be debate. There has to be some government (calling it here "FUCKING STATIST") but of course too much power brings us to our current misery.
Wade brings good points to the table here.
This is why the feds are, and have been, erasing our history with the removal of Confederate monuments.
This is why, in indoctrination public schools, there is no teachings of state's rights as the cause of the civil war. Instead it's painted as slavery and racism.
This is why, the reconstruction act of 1871 created a corporate constitution. Originally supposed to be contained to the 10sq miles of the District of Criminals.
I could go on......
So, how do we "fix" this? Discussing it will lead to the feds "knocking" on your door.
All in all, this has been decades, and decades, in the making.
This is why the feds are, and have been, erasing our history with the removal of Confederate monuments.
This is why, in indoctrination public schools, there is no teachings of state's rights as the cause of the civil war. Instead it's painted as slavery and racism.
This is why, the reconstruction act of 1871 created a corporate constitution. Originally supposed to be contained to the 10sq miles of the District of Criminals.
I could go on......
So, how do we "fix" this? Discussing it will lead to the feds "knocking" on your door.
All in all, this has been decades, and decades, in the making.
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Whenever anyone ever brings up the "Articles of Confederation", it always reminds me of this gem
We would have better luck fixing Social Security than reforming the government as a whole. But no one has the stones to remedy the enormous social spending the government does.
This in itself was a concern brought up in the anti-federalist papers I linked pertaining to article 1 section 8 of the constitution. The concern was the states would be beholden to the federal gov’t for revenue which obviously nulls the states power to a large degree.
JMTCW... the Constitution was (in it's originally interpreted form) was a pretty good deal. What has happened since, (starting in the early 1900's and accelerated in the 1960's) is what has allowed the rot to creep into the government. Social policies are tearing down the original construct, meaning and interpretation of the COTUS (though Congressional progressiveness, and judicial activism).
Thomas Sowell (I personally think) has it right, in how it all happened. A pretty good read.
Thomas Sowell (I personally think) has it right, in how it all happened. A pretty good read.
I may pick that book up and give it a read. This is an interesting subject to me.
"Give me control of a nations currency and I care not who makes the laws"
Here has been my experience with wealthy people. They buy stuff and hire services. I work in a niche part of construction where the customers tend to have "disposable income." Which means I get a paycheck.
So, bring on more wealthy people buying more things.
This isn’t an accurate characterization at all nor relevant but you’re a dishonest and inconsistent man so it matters little to you.
There's the intellect we've come to know and enjoy. Just a bunch of name calling with the intellectual heft of a Boy Band music fan.
Here's a thought experiment:
Would you mock the following person?
"Guys my current load is running hot and starting to blow primers, I'm gonna go back to the load that blew up my rifle during load development"
Because that's what you wrote.
I've been 100% consistent and honest in dealing with you: You have no clue and no brain.
I forget the exact quote or who said it bit one of our founders stated the constitution is wholly inadequate for all but a moral and religious people. It was written in good faith in hope that we'd do right but knowing the ability of power to corrupt. I believe its the best government document ever written(besides the declaration) and has given the world a taste of freedom. Unfortunately we are in a time were evil rules the day and the indifference of good men is quickly sealing our fate. Ill have to look into the aoc, i dont know anything about it
I did a report on The Articles of Confederation in elementary school.
And that's as much as I remember about it.
And that's as much as I remember about it.
Biggest problem with the Constitution currently is that it's being ignored. Mr Potatohead pushes things he knows violate the Constitution (student loan forgiveness for example), knowing that whoever calls BS will be the villain or that the Feds will get what they want done by the time it makes it to the Supreme Court (covid and Russian collusion censorship). Strict adherence to the 10th Amendment would fix 80 percent of the problem. Abolish the Department of Education for a good start.
the sowell book above is a must read. if you don't care to read all of his books,and i have,this one lays out the central core of his thinking. the point wade makes is a valid one. the constitution was written by a certain class of men. they were trying to do a good job but did seek to lean things their own way. they did that. this post gives some insight into why i have always wondered about the building up of the federalist papers and ignoring the anti federalist's work. perhaps pro big government leaning going way back? the central bank idea started out in the 1790s in it's 1st form. that a clue? yes,shays rebellion was the first example i know about of central gov armed coercion and abuse of power.
the idea that the current disaster is a logical progression from the past is a hard one to argue against.
the idea that the current disaster is a logical progression from the past is a hard one to argue against.
100% correct.
of course we need strong central gov and weak states. how else to fund wars of empire and keep the (2) MICs funded?
The precursor of the Federal Reserve went to pres. Lincoln and wanted to strike the deal to print US currency that they would control and sell to the US. Lincoln said no, we should have US dollar bills. He was shot in the head, in public, next to his wife.
Pres. Kennedy said he wanted to get rid of the Fed and start printing US dollar bills. He was shot in the head, next to his wife, in public.
Man, what a coincidence. At least it makes for good reading.
I think Reagan toyed with the idea of abolishing the Fed. But he changed his mind after the actions of John Hinkley Hr. Also, I think the presidential detail of the SS was divided on the issue. So, they accidentally did their job. Read any book published on the secret service and then tell me that John Hinkley just snuck in there.
And Reagan signed that friggin gun bill.
What went/is wrong with our system of .gov is...The Fed. Gov. was intended to be an "Overseer" of the states.
Well...that sure as F didn't work out. The States were supposed to handle their business. WE THE PEOPLE, allowed it to run roughshod over the States, and hence, the situation WE are in now. Fed. Gov. has gotten fat off the backs of honest, hard working, people. It's been going on for decades and the fat cats have gotten so use to squandering all of the tax $$ from the (mentioned above^^^) people, they just can't stop.
They are aware that people are starting to wise up to this scheme of theirs, hence, the reason our borders are being overrun with illegals/terrorist which will vote to keep the shit-bags in office with the promise of free shit.
They've been exposed, and people are starting to smell the shit for what it is...shit.
One day the gig will be up. What happens after that...who F'n knows. Mac
Well...that sure as F didn't work out. The States were supposed to handle their business. WE THE PEOPLE, allowed it to run roughshod over the States, and hence, the situation WE are in now. Fed. Gov. has gotten fat off the backs of honest, hard working, people. It's been going on for decades and the fat cats have gotten so use to squandering all of the tax $$ from the (mentioned above^^^) people, they just can't stop.
They are aware that people are starting to wise up to this scheme of theirs, hence, the reason our borders are being overrun with illegals/terrorist which will vote to keep the shit-bags in office with the promise of free shit.
They've been exposed, and people are starting to smell the shit for what it is...shit.
One day the gig will be up. What happens after that...who F'n knows. Mac
additionally,the jack ruby story has never been straight.
criminals or not if the people keep reelecting the crooks over and over again things are only going to get worse reguardless how they try to change there spots they will right back doing what they did to make people mad .
he was very wrong. pure democracy always turns into some form of fascism. also,the 51% always figure it out or their elite "leaders" talk them into it. we had it for a brief time-a constitutional republic-didn't last long. french revolution a good example of democracy going bad fast.
in fact,a monarchy would be fine IF you got the right king. never has happened for more than 2 gens. then things go in the shiter fast. most societies have been too big and complex for that to work.
i think any large society is ultimately doomed. no way for the average/normal/decent individual to have or keep any control over their life. power seems to have historically been grabbed by people and forces that have no interest in anything but control.
in fact,a monarchy would be fine IF you got the right king. never has happened for more than 2 gens. then things go in the shiter fast. most societies have been too big and complex for that to work.
i think any large society is ultimately doomed. no way for the average/normal/decent individual to have or keep any control over their life. power seems to have historically been grabbed by people and forces that have no interest in anything but control.
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Which is exactly the case. That's how they are implementing this green agenda load of crap. They say they will withhold fed funds if states don't comply. Of course here, we passed legislation that made it illegal for a township or county to enforce some of it "latent features act" , so it can be done, but it would take a ton of stuff to piecemeal a real legislation end run around all of it.
The real solution is either "A convention of the states", OR, the states just stop sending the money to the feds to begin with. None of its easy, but a convention of the states is very much within reach given the number of state legislatures conservatives already hold.
"If my sons didn't want any wars, there would be no wars"
Exactly that. We need to follow what was laid out, because they certainly are not and have not, erosion bit by bit since at least 1860.
yea at least 1860 but really before that even. country was so big and wide open that gov interference with peoples lives was not really easy like now with internet,interstates and total control of schools.
1794 the creation of the uni-party.
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