Mine arrived 5 days before a move. I have no idea when I will be caught up enough to start back reloading.
- Thread starter adamjmac
- Start date
I think you've made your opinion amply clear in this thread. I suggest you move on, and refrain from posting anymore in this thread. This is your last warning.
All, if you want to get a tip for your V4 it needs to be ordered within the next week. I am currently in a prep course for Air Force Weapons School putting in 18 hour days. This is the last chance for the next 6 months to get some as I will be unable to do so while I am in Weapons School.
PM sent.
All, so that folks can get these tips while I’m gone I have decided to send some to @Drhorsepower on here. It was never about the money with these tips. Just to help improve the experience with the AT V4. Please give him a week or so to get the tips in. He already sells parts for the V4 so it was a no brainer when he asked.
Interesting . . . I've had mine for almost a year now (Feb 18, 2022 was when I got my shipping notice), but probably haven't used it quite as frequently, so we probably have about the same amount of time with it. I've used mine for H4350, N570 and IMR4064. My most recent loading sessions (from just this week) have been with H4350 and are fresher in my mind, so I'll report my experience with that powder:
When I loaded the first 70 rounds for load development, I had 1 round tip over the +.02-.02 error boundary (.03-.04 being the approximate weight of one kernel of H4350). Following that initial 70 rounds, on a different day (and having cycled power of the Unit and recalibrated, etc), I loaded an additional 50 rounds and I had three instances of busting the threshold. In all cases the error was the quantity of one kernel, so I just removed one with my finger, double checked the weight and it was spot on.
I consider that an extremely positive result given that the V4 is on the same bench surface on which I am performing my bullet seating while I'm waiting on the V4 to drop the next charge which may actually be causing the rare errors that do occur.
I didn't even realize people were having issues, but got a notification that someone had tagged this thread so I opened it up to see what was new. And believe me, I'm familiar with reloading equipment sucking (i.e. the trash heap that is the Mark 7 Apex 10 - an absolute piece of garbage and waste of $3K (or 5K if you start talking about all of the extra stuff I bought for it).
I'll pay close attention to see if I get any increased errors (and maybe whether my unit is tilted slightly forward or back?) and report back if I notice anything.
FWIW, I haven't done any "mods" to my unit and have only added the cover plate from "Obsessed's" kit (I didn't bother with his side walls since the cover plate did all that I needed).
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I've been working on sorting out a guide on how to tune the v4. Like, it looks like it's using the calibration weights to run the tubes to get to an approximate weight without even reading the scale output, and then only paying attention to the scale at the very end with the slow small tube.
So, to me, you need to watch where and how you're getting overthrows to see what you need to tune. If you're getting big overthrows, that means your big tube is running too long. Increase the large tube target weight or transition weight. Or maybe lower the large tube minimum speed. You need to switch to the small tube sooner in that scenario.
If your overthrows are coming at the end during the trickle, then you need to increase the low speed time on the small tube. You actually might be able to speed up the large tube in this scenario, as it's not the source of the overthrows. Speeding up the large tube and slowing down the small tube might gain you both speed and accuracy.
In theory, you want to use the large tube as much as you can without getting too many overthrows. Then spend as little time on the small tube as possible, as it should just finish things up, without it over trickling.
Also, depending on how you view things, you might increase your tolerance for overthrows to gain speed. If you can get 30% faster drop time, but have to redo 10% of the throws because you occasionally go over, that's maybe a good tradeoff overall.
I'm still working out the kinks, but my current settings have my average drop time down to around 10 seconds for 41.5gr of H4350. I'm still running high error rates, and I'm still tweaking. Once I settle in on some methods I'll work up a video on how to get everything fine tuned.
So, to me, you need to watch where and how you're getting overthrows to see what you need to tune. If you're getting big overthrows, that means your big tube is running too long. Increase the large tube target weight or transition weight. Or maybe lower the large tube minimum speed. You need to switch to the small tube sooner in that scenario.
If your overthrows are coming at the end during the trickle, then you need to increase the low speed time on the small tube. You actually might be able to speed up the large tube in this scenario, as it's not the source of the overthrows. Speeding up the large tube and slowing down the small tube might gain you both speed and accuracy.
In theory, you want to use the large tube as much as you can without getting too many overthrows. Then spend as little time on the small tube as possible, as it should just finish things up, without it over trickling.
Also, depending on how you view things, you might increase your tolerance for overthrows to gain speed. If you can get 30% faster drop time, but have to redo 10% of the throws because you occasionally go over, that's maybe a good tradeoff overall.
I'm still working out the kinks, but my current settings have my average drop time down to around 10 seconds for 41.5gr of H4350. I'm still running high error rates, and I'm still tweaking. Once I settle in on some methods I'll work up a video on how to get everything fine tuned.
I have had good luck with v4. I have been running mostly h4350 and n560, both of which are tough ones.
The setting posted previously got me pretty close and I just fine tuned one thing wt a time.
I did go ahead and order and IP trickler to try with the v4, because I can… and I think the mechanics of the IP is really interesting.
The setting posted previously got me pretty close and I just fine tuned one thing wt a time.
I did go ahead and order and IP trickler to try with the v4, because I can… and I think the mechanics of the IP is really interesting.
I see a business opportunity here. Selling premeasured bags of 4150 at 41.5gr.
I've had very good results with the V4. I seat a bullet after every throw, so I don't need as much speed a some folks. I load mostly powders like H4350, RE15.5, Varget and H1000 with throws that average around 12 seconds and get occasional overthrows - perhaps 1 in 20 at the most once I get everything tweaked right. I seem to learn a little more each session and the overthrows are getting fewer and fewer. I've also had a couple of e-mail conversations with Adam that have helped a lot. He's very responsive. I do not use a "the tip" on my small tube.
I've found that large tube advanced settings don't make a great deal of difference and generally leave it set on 5 with no advanced settings. Higher speeds gain very little time and increase the odds of a overthrow. However, it is important that the transition leaves about 1.5-2 grains for the small tube.
The crux of the matter is the small tube. I've found that the bunching of kernels at the end of the small tube as it slows down is the main cause of my overthrows. I've been able to minimize this problem with tube angle and advanced settings. I use my own shims in .005" and .010" increments to get the flow right and then reduce the high and low speed times down to where the small tube doesn't get a chance to run slow for very long. The combination of the right angle and time doesn't allow kernels to bunch up at the end of the tube.
For repeatable results with the tube angle, I am careful to precisely level my scale for every session. I also have a log that I track my settings and results with which really helps me keep track of what works and what doesn't with each powder.
Recent Example:
Reloader 15.5
Shims .015 @ back of unit
Flow rates 20.1 large tube and .024 small tube
Large tube speed 6 (no advanced settings)
Transition weight 2.00
Small tube high speed time 1.90, low speed time 1.90
Target weight .02 grains
I've found that large tube advanced settings don't make a great deal of difference and generally leave it set on 5 with no advanced settings. Higher speeds gain very little time and increase the odds of a overthrow. However, it is important that the transition leaves about 1.5-2 grains for the small tube.
The crux of the matter is the small tube. I've found that the bunching of kernels at the end of the small tube as it slows down is the main cause of my overthrows. I've been able to minimize this problem with tube angle and advanced settings. I use my own shims in .005" and .010" increments to get the flow right and then reduce the high and low speed times down to where the small tube doesn't get a chance to run slow for very long. The combination of the right angle and time doesn't allow kernels to bunch up at the end of the tube.
For repeatable results with the tube angle, I am careful to precisely level my scale for every session. I also have a log that I track my settings and results with which really helps me keep track of what works and what doesn't with each powder.
Recent Example:
Reloader 15.5
Shims .015 @ back of unit
Flow rates 20.1 large tube and .024 small tube
Large tube speed 6 (no advanced settings)
Transition weight 2.00
Small tube high speed time 1.90, low speed time 1.90
Target weight .02 grains
Does anyone know if there was a design change on the V4, specifically to the bottom of the aluminum housing directly below the hopper? I noticed a video of the unit Fclass John had in his video looked to have a divot where the rear rubber bumper interfaced. Looking at my unit it does not appear mine has the same divot. Curious because I am using a shim kit and it made my trickler perform worse than without them so I am wonder if the people using the shim kit have an earlier model or I just dont have them set correctly.
The threaded portion was part of the beta/earlier units that allowed the unit to adjust tilt. None of the current ones have it. Hence the reason for shims.
Oh ok, I was curious with the success people were seeing with the shims that their unit may of had this divot in it. I tried the shims and it made my flow rate too high even with the shortest one, seems my unit worked best with the factory configuration. Goof flow rates on the tubes and quick throws in the 10-12 second range. Maybe im doing something wrong, havent messed with any advanced settings either.
I don't like the plastic shims. They are a PITA to install and they are not very accurate. I use bent pieces of shim stock. They are easy to insert/remove, can be stacked to create different heights and I get very repeatable results when I set up for a loading session as long as I level the scale fairly precisely.
Attachments
Does anyone have pics of the shims they are providing now?
My son makes a set of spacers for it-
www.snipershide.com
My son makes a set of spacers for it-
Reloading Equipment - Autotrickler v4 spacer mod
Hi everyone, my 10 year old son got a 3d printer recently and we have been busy learning how to make cool stuff. He has an entrepreneurial spirit and wants to offer up some of the designs we came up with. My son is printing, and shipping. All of the money goes to him, I am simply the middle man...
www.snipershide.com The picture is from the back.
Oh my bad , quick glance I thought it was the front
I bought your spacer kit but I started having over throws and the flow rate was really high but I didn’t play with it very much so I’m sure with a few adjustments and speed settings I could get it rightDoes anyone have pics of the shims they are providing now?
My son makes a set of spacers for it-
Reloading Equipment - Autotrickler v4 spacer mod
Hi everyone, my 10 year old son got a 3d printer recently and we have been busy learning how to make cool stuff. He has an entrepreneurial spirit and wants to offer up some of the designs we came up with. My son is printing, and shipping. All of the money goes to him, I am simply the middle man...
Would you have any interest in doing a video on your install and settings on how you got your throws down to 6 seconds? Or a write up on itDoes anyone have pics of the shims they are providing now?
My son makes a set of spacers for it-
Reloading Equipment - Autotrickler v4 spacer mod
Hi everyone, my 10 year old son got a 3d printer recently and we have been busy learning how to make cool stuff. He has an entrepreneurial spirit and wants to offer up some of the designs we came up with. My son is printing, and shipping. All of the money goes to him, I am simply the middle man...
Yea for sure. I’m actually getting ready to load 500 rounds for a match coming up so I’ll do a video then!
Me too! Lol.
Excellent, thanks!
As I mentioned above, I made a video about tuning the ATv4.
TL;DW: Do your calibration for the powder you're using. And then make all your setting adjustments while testing drops on your minimum powder charge. You can essentially min (1.5s) the Large Tube High/Low Speed Time settings. They will rarely be a factor unless you're doing ultramagnum drops over 70 grains. You can probably also set Minimum Speed to 1.5GN/s. That will keep the large tube going full blast more or less until it transitions to the small tube. Use the Transition Weight and Target Weight settings to make sure you don't get any overthrows from the large tube. Higher values will be slower and safer. Lower values will be faster but more likely to overthrow. In the video, I go over how I came up with my starting point guess for Target Weight and Transition Weight.
Once you have the large tube going as fast as possible without overthrows, work on the small tube. Again, High Speed Time won't matter much, so just min it to 1.5. The Low Speed Time will need to be increased above the minimum if you're just running past your target weight with the small tube. The Target Weight will adjust the point at which it starts doing the iterative (slow) trickle at the end. You really want that set as low as you can without getting overthrows.
Once you have those roughly set up, you'll just need to tweak as you use the machine. Over time, when you get overthrows, look at what cause it. If it was the Large Tube, adjust the Transition Weight or Target Weight settings on the Large Tube. If the overthrow came at the end from the Small Tube, adjust the Low Speed time or make the Target Weight higher. Over time, you'll end up going about as fast as you can with a number of overthrows that you're comfortable with.
With stick powders, it's almost impossible to get to zero, because there's always gonna be a chance that a few sticks dump at once during trickling, putting you over.
My drops are routinely 10s or less now, but I still need to tweak some more. Further, shimming may help, as compared to the recommended range, my powder is dropping a little fast (~23gr/s).
TL;DW: Do your calibration for the powder you're using. And then make all your setting adjustments while testing drops on your minimum powder charge. You can essentially min (1.5s) the Large Tube High/Low Speed Time settings. They will rarely be a factor unless you're doing ultramagnum drops over 70 grains. You can probably also set Minimum Speed to 1.5GN/s. That will keep the large tube going full blast more or less until it transitions to the small tube. Use the Transition Weight and Target Weight settings to make sure you don't get any overthrows from the large tube. Higher values will be slower and safer. Lower values will be faster but more likely to overthrow. In the video, I go over how I came up with my starting point guess for Target Weight and Transition Weight.
Once you have the large tube going as fast as possible without overthrows, work on the small tube. Again, High Speed Time won't matter much, so just min it to 1.5. The Low Speed Time will need to be increased above the minimum if you're just running past your target weight with the small tube. The Target Weight will adjust the point at which it starts doing the iterative (slow) trickle at the end. You really want that set as low as you can without getting overthrows.
Once you have those roughly set up, you'll just need to tweak as you use the machine. Over time, when you get overthrows, look at what cause it. If it was the Large Tube, adjust the Transition Weight or Target Weight settings on the Large Tube. If the overthrow came at the end from the Small Tube, adjust the Low Speed time or make the Target Weight higher. Over time, you'll end up going about as fast as you can with a number of overthrows that you're comfortable with.
With stick powders, it's almost impossible to get to zero, because there's always gonna be a chance that a few sticks dump at once during trickling, putting you over.
My drops are routinely 10s or less now, but I still need to tweak some more. Further, shimming may help, as compared to the recommended range, my powder is dropping a little fast (~23gr/s).
Try the Jthor tip. It really helps the small tube to meter one kernel drops. Your video was extremely informative on how each setting works. Thanks.
He should have called it JtheTip, LOL!
Haha. While he is out for the next 6 months. My son is selling his “j the tip”.
I just added the IP to my v4. I have to say, my favorite combo to date. It might be 1-2 seconds slower than the v3 when setup correctly, but the ability to easily run ladder tests is worth that.
Do you have a video/picture of your setup? I haven’t seen it before.
Just curious... what version is your AutoTrickler app? Mine shows v4.1.1 dated October 2021, and I can't find anything newer... maybe I was just fat-fingering things, but I couldn't seem to get the 'Advanced' settings option to open up despite poking/pressing/holding that button in the display...
Mine says v1.1.0 updated Oct 10, 2021.Just curious... what version is your AutoTrickler app? Mine shows v4.1.1 dated October 2021, and I can't find anything newer... maybe I was just fat-fingering things, but I couldn't seem to get the 'Advanced' settings option to open up despite poking/pressing/holding that button in the display...
Yeah, mine does as well. Misread it in haste
Finally got to the 'advanced' setting page too
Yes, the one that dttheliman posted is exactly the same.
I have only seen the ST run in videos. Any that were new use were not impressive. The highly tuned machines look awesome.
I do have to say that I firmly believe Paul’s design with the IP is surely the way of the future for fine finish trickling.
The setup on the v4 was stupid easy and it took almost no adjustment in settings to work faster and more precise than the OEM small tube.
Biggest problem I've had with my v4 is forgetting to re-calibrate between different powders...
So I think I have something to add to this discussion. I had a v3, I have a v4 and super trickler now. I will say they both have advantages and disadvantages.
The biggest disadvantage for the super trickler are the position of the Straw. I've probably bumped the straw no less than 10% of the time. Even being careful you have to slide the pan vs picking it up. Very very annoying and I'm betting many are doing without realizing after their charge is finished. That tiny little weigh platform makes this problem much much worse than it needs to be. If he had to cut out to accept 419 plate or something like it it would help. But the fact that it's so close is challenging. You don't even have to hit the tube. You can bump the cup into the back of the housing and it'll spill powder.
The other problem I'm running into that a lot of people probably won't, is how easy it is to spill powder due to vibration. I normally use a progressive and powder funnel die and when the Press cycles, it's dropping powder either in the cup or on the plate. During my routine, this happens just as I set the cup back down, as the press cycles up, after finished sizing. Spilling powder just as the Auto trickler re-zeros the cup. You can tell because when you set the cut back down, it weighs a good -.15-.3. Maybe a reducer would help in the tip of the Straw. Idk.
Mine showed up with a broken top and ST creator said he'd fix. So no issues there. He did just upgrade to version 2, that I'll have to send in to get upgraded. Other than that. Ladder mode is cool. Charges are very fast. But for me personally, I'm not trying to set up another bench right next to my existing, so I'm going to have to find a different solution. It is also a little more difficult to weigh other items. Such as cases when doing H2O measurements or ammo. With the straw where it is, there's very little room.
I ended up going back to Auto trickler v4 for now. Probably the only reason why is because I found a guy that makes a acrylic case for it that allows 419 plate and cup. He called it a riser and made a FS threat a few months ago. It has an adjustment screw in the back so I can dial adjustments pretty well. And frankly I just don't have a need for lightning fast charges. I only trickle for load development and I'm already running Progressive. I've had no issues with spilling powder due to vibration yet. And if I'm being honest I just like the feel on the 419 accessories and the scale interface over ST which feels like a weird old smartphone screen. Menus aren't hard to learn but they also aren't super intuitive and I find myself searching for certain functions more then loading.
I realize this sounds a little fanboyish . But I honestly didn't love the v4. I do remember loving the v3 when it came out but v4 that $100 riser was mandatory for me. If not I'd probably go back to v3.
The biggest disadvantage for the super trickler are the position of the Straw. I've probably bumped the straw no less than 10% of the time. Even being careful you have to slide the pan vs picking it up. Very very annoying and I'm betting many are doing without realizing after their charge is finished. That tiny little weigh platform makes this problem much much worse than it needs to be. If he had to cut out to accept 419 plate or something like it it would help. But the fact that it's so close is challenging. You don't even have to hit the tube. You can bump the cup into the back of the housing and it'll spill powder.
The other problem I'm running into that a lot of people probably won't, is how easy it is to spill powder due to vibration. I normally use a progressive and powder funnel die and when the Press cycles, it's dropping powder either in the cup or on the plate. During my routine, this happens just as I set the cup back down, as the press cycles up, after finished sizing. Spilling powder just as the Auto trickler re-zeros the cup. You can tell because when you set the cut back down, it weighs a good -.15-.3. Maybe a reducer would help in the tip of the Straw. Idk.
Mine showed up with a broken top and ST creator said he'd fix. So no issues there. He did just upgrade to version 2, that I'll have to send in to get upgraded. Other than that. Ladder mode is cool. Charges are very fast. But for me personally, I'm not trying to set up another bench right next to my existing, so I'm going to have to find a different solution. It is also a little more difficult to weigh other items. Such as cases when doing H2O measurements or ammo. With the straw where it is, there's very little room.
I ended up going back to Auto trickler v4 for now. Probably the only reason why is because I found a guy that makes a acrylic case for it that allows 419 plate and cup. He called it a riser and made a FS threat a few months ago. It has an adjustment screw in the back so I can dial adjustments pretty well. And frankly I just don't have a need for lightning fast charges. I only trickle for load development and I'm already running Progressive. I've had no issues with spilling powder due to vibration yet. And if I'm being honest I just like the feel on the 419 accessories and the scale interface over ST which feels like a weird old smartphone screen. Menus aren't hard to learn but they also aren't super intuitive and I find myself searching for certain functions more then loading.
I realize this sounds a little fanboyish . But I honestly didn't love the v4. I do remember loving the v3 when it came out but v4 that $100 riser was mandatory for me. If not I'd probably go back to v3.
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I load on a Dillon 550 with a very stout bench, but there is no way my V4 can be on the same bench. Same is true with my Chargemaster. I isolate my powder dispensers with a separate steel table (a Rockler tool stand actually) that sits on the concrete floor to my right.
I have my v2 on my coffee table and that sits on carpet and it works perfectly fine.
Dont jostle the table like a mad man while its final trickling and youre golden.
Regardless of what table its on, hitting the cup on the trickler, where ever that is, will dribble kernels out.
Dont jostle the table like a mad man while its final trickling and youre golden.
Regardless of what table its on, hitting the cup on the trickler, where ever that is, will dribble kernels out.
I don't know if I've ever seen a more overkill accessory than that A419 plate. LOL.
I don’t have any problem inserting the cup onto the little pan. Almost never ever ever bump one of the tubes. That may be because I do it seated so that I am at eye level with the tubes which is I think is an optimal way to use this particular device. I know they did this with the small pan base on purpose to minimize the chances of drafts influencing the scale and powder, bouncing out and landing beside the cup on the base. I also recognize that we’re all different and some machines just mesh with some people better than others. As we all keep saying, it’s good to have as many options as possible.
Unlike my Chargemaster, the V4 isn't as sensitive to me pulling the lever on my Forester loading bullets while dropping powder charges. Although I'm pretty careful do not bump the stops when seating. Obviously they are on the same bench.
I also got the tip and mainly run H4350 and can easily drop a charge in under 10 sec with maybe 2 slight overs or maybe one big per 100 cases. I like to run my scale and V4 level and have very good luck that way. I talked to Adam, several times for a couple weeks and he explained all the settings and how he sets the v4 up without the tip and it worked great but I just felt, level with the tip was more consistent for me with my powder.
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