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Hunting & Fishing Average hunter skills

Re: Average hunter skills

Yeah and there will be a lot more wounded critters out there thanks to these misguided folks(BOTW). They can shoot, if you believe what you see on the program, but haven't explained how they adjust for location/conditions on any parts of their show I have seen. Wind and other variables make 900 yards on game unethical for me. YMMV, but after 600yds it gets too iffy under most conditions.
Furthermore, please don't call that hunting. I call it culling or killing for the meat(I hope not the trophy). I am not looking down on it, and will defend the right to do it, (have doe kills out to 500 myself)but there is little skill or knowledge of your quarry involved in taking an animal at these distances if you know how to shoot. Know your true limits, you need to live with yourself at the end of the day. If you can't do it consistantly in practice don't just throw a round downrange at at a living creature. Have more respect for nature.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Have a friend that I'll refer to as 'Sarge' that I have seen on several occasions, shoot a 1.5" and less, 3 shot group at 500 yds, from the kneeling position. He is a shooter but an even better hunter. And no, I cannot come close to his results in real field shooting.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Harvey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have a friend that I'll refer to as 'Sarge' that I have seen on several occasions, shoot a 1.5" and less, 3 shot group at 500 yds, from the kneeling position. He is a shooter but an even better hunter. And no, I cannot come close to his results in real field shooting. </div></div>

You have to be joking, you have a friend, that from a field position will out shoot some of the worlds best BR and target shooters.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek060.html that is the current WR in light varmint BR.

The current WR for 300 international rifle comp is 1782/1800 that is 180 shots @ 300 meters, 60 prone, 60 kneeling, 60 standing, the 10 ring is 8 cm or 3,25 inches.

You have ha friend that could beat them all, I am in total awe.

Take care out there, best regards Chris
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swedish guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Harvey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have a friend that I'll refer to as 'Sarge' that I have seen on several occasions, shoot a 1.5" and less, 3 shot group at 500 yds, from the kneeling position. He is a shooter but an even better hunter. And no, I cannot come close to his results in real field shooting. </div></div>

You have to be joking, you have a friend, that from a field position will out shoot some of the worlds best BR and target shooters.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek060.html that is the current WR in light varmint BR.

The current WR for 300 international rifle comp is 1782/1800 that is 180 shots @ 300 meters, 60 prone, 60 kneeling, 60 standing, the 10 ring is 8 cm or 3,25 inches.

You have ha friend that could beat them all, I am in total awe.

Take care out there, best regards Chris </div></div>

If you learned basic reading and comprehension, you would then understand what I said in my post.

If I had not seen Jered Joplin do this on several, yes SEVERAL, not ALL occasions, I would not have believed it myself. But, David, Phil and myself have witnessed this several times. So, just because you can't or should I say won't EVER accomplish this feat, don't be frightened by the guys who can. Just acknowledge the fact, like I did in my original post, that all men are NOT equal.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Those fellers shoot and I ain't there equal but that is the shit when you can pull it off. I can't carry all that equipment with a climber on my back so I am tuned to 500 but looking for inside 50. Thats what seperates the hunter in me from the shooter. I honestly get the most fired up with bow kills. To each and every hunter their own..We need em all.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Harvey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swedish guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Harvey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have a friend that I'll refer to as 'Sarge' that I have seen on several occasions, shoot a 1.5" and less, 3 shot group at 500 yds, from the kneeling position. He is a shooter but an even better hunter. And no, I cannot come close to his results in real field shooting. </div></div>

You have to be joking, you have a friend, that from a field position will out shoot some of the worlds best BR and target shooters.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek060.html that is the current WR in light varmint BR.

The current WR for 300 international rifle comp is 1782/1800 that is 180 shots @ 300 meters, 60 prone, 60 kneeling, 60 standing, the 10 ring is 8 cm or 3,25 inches.

You have ha friend that could beat them all, I am in total awe.

Take care out there, best regards Chris </div></div>

If you learned basic reading and comprehension, you would then understand what I said in my post.

If I had not seen Jered Joplin do this on several, yes SEVERAL, not ALL occasions, I would not have believed it myself. But, David, Phil and myself have witnessed this several times. So, just because you can't or should I say won't EVER accomplish this feat, don't be frightened by the guys who can. Just acknowledge the fact, like I did in my original post, that all men are NOT equal. </div></div>

Really,

ok so your previously not named person/friend is J Joplin now, well yes he is recognised shot, I still have to see this being done, as seeing is beliving,

pics will do.

You do acctually realise that you are the one out on limb here, it would have been sufficient even with my limited abilities to read and write to understand had you been clear and given names.

I still have serious doubts to the idea of JJ shooting that good consistently from a kneeling posistion.

Like you said I am reading impaired and still I know that you claim that your friend outshoots the elite of the world in those two ewents that have similar standards, BR and international fieldtarget.

I have always lowed the I have a friend references, they are always so safe and easy to defend when called on.

Best regards Chris

 
Re: Average hunter skills

What fucking part of 'on several occasions', do you not understand?

You say you still have doubts about Jered 'consistently' shooting these groups for field positions. Where the fuck did I say consistently?

Go home troll!
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Ok lets cut the crap. Since it's me we are talking about I'm going to chime in here.

I'll say this. Have I shot the groups that BHarvey is referring to?
Yes I have. He worked for me for almost 3 years. It would be fair to say that he has seen me shoot on more occasions than just about anybody since we've spent hundreds of hours on the range together at work. When I shot the groups (on occasion as referred) I wasn't attempting to shoot a 1.5" group. I was simply hitting the target. If they happen to hit the same spot even better. I certainly couldn't call that shot to save my life nor repeat it on command but it has most certainly happened. I shoot on average 20,000 rounds or so down range annually. For me things become somewhat mundane. For this reason we started trying to make it a little more interesting.
You probably wouldn't believe that I tagged the 2.5" center dot shooting in a sitting position at a 1000 the other day or the fact that we shoot 400 yards with standard simi auto pistols just for grins either. I certainly wouldn't call a head shot at that distance but if I took that shot and the person standing there was missed they would know damn good and well that it was intended for them. My point is we do what we do for fun and training. The Law of Probabilities state that these instances can easily occur. Not on demand or at will but it can and will happen with enough rounds down range. If I could do it consistently I would be plastered in every magazine add from here to Sweden. But to sit there and act as if it's not possible is a naive thought process.
I never got into this business to be a "world class shooter". I got in this business because I have a passion for shooting and hunting. I train more than anything to become a better shooter so when the hunt calls for a special shot I know whether or not I can make that shot. If you don't push the envelope you will never fully understand your ability and certainly not be able to judge a field situation accurately as far taking or not taking a shot. In my defense that's why I do it and yes it does happen. Please understand that it's nothing more and nothing less than the truth.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Harvey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, I'm the pathetic one.

</div></div>

Now that that's been settled...
wink.gif
You coming back to the big game or staying with the small stuff?
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Who me, I still think B. Harwey has a ass backward attitude,

the fact that I made his friend and formed Co worker J Joplin get in on the train to set things straigth just shows how he has things sort of tangled up in there.

I have no issues hearing things from the source, if Mr Joplin says he shoots this well, then that is how things are, if some ones friend "aka" "Sarge" is claimed to shoot this and that well then I am an forever sceptic.

How easy would it not have been to be straightforward about this, B Harwey try this, "I have witnessed J. Joplin shoot like this and that on a few occassions when we were out shooting."

Was I wrong on this occassion, yes obwiously, would I say I am sorry to B. Harwey, no, his way of presenting himself and his experiences hinder such a thing.

To Mr J Joplin, I am sorry, for both pushing you to add to this thread and that I doubted you and your skills.

/Best regards Chris
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Swedish Guy, What is your deal? You've had your panties in a bunch from the beginning of this thread. Why so confrontational? Know one is attacking your skills. There's more than a few posts on here to back up the OP's question.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

It's not a problem with me for sure.

I wish I could do it consistently. It's really just a numbers game. If you sit down on a bench (with a capable gun and you are a capable shooter) to shoot 1000 yards and fire 100 rounds per day 3 days out of the week how many groups do you think you'll get that are truly amazing. The answer is a lot more than one would think. I've shot countless groups under 2 inches at 1000 but doing it at will and on command is a physical impossibility for me unfortunately.

So lets get on with the hunting show................

In my opinion shooting skills are VERY important for hunting.
As a responsible hunter you owe it to yourself and the animal to be the best you can be. Even if the hunt doesn't require a high level of marksmanship. Do you know how many people I hear say that they missed a deer during hunting season locally? A lot! Why? Mainly because they are to lazy to put the time in to be a good hunter and marksman. The other answer is that they simply don't know how to be better. It's hard to judge "Joe lunch pale" that doesn't know any better because no one ever told him how to be better. My dad fits into category #2. He was raised a certain way on the farm. We hunt to eat type of attitude. If he can kill his deer inside of 150 yards he is ok with that and sees no need in being any better. Until one day when big boy is hang'n out at the edge of the pasture behind the house and he decides to stalk it because it's "too far for that 30-06". I told him he needs to learn his rifle.
For that once in a life time shot don't be caught with your pants down and make a bad shot because you didn't train hard enough. Shooting skills are just as important as basic hunting skills.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Wfldg-

Good question, there are somethings that are sort of touchy and not referred to, and the whole concept of shooting well or not is one in Sweden and as it seems in most other countries, that combined with ideas of what is good hunting ethics and not might have made me a bit edgy.

I would not say that I have my pants in a bunch but yes I might be feeling a bit too strong and conflicting about this to be really clear and level headed.

I find that some of the ideas and ethics of hunting expressed by others here are just plain wrong and that sets me off, rightfully or wrongfully, that is how I feel.

As for going after B. Harvey, should he have adressed himself honestly and clearly I would not have called BS on him, as things stood I felt that the claims he made were just that.

Being called a troll did not make me feel and think any more of him either, it just doesn´t sit well with me.

I am just an average guy from Sweden with 27 years experience of hunting, as for shooting well, no I would not call my self a great shot.
I try to get out and hunt at least 50 days a year and most years I get about 65 days in the field hunting and managing game.

Perhaps I should feel bad about talking back to B. Harvey and second guessing what he said and yes I could have done it in a better way, a bit to late now to regret that.

Could I go back and do it again, I would have gone about it differently, I might be slightly jaded by another thread on a separate forum about longrange shooting/hunting and the amount of BS being thrown around there but that is not an excuse just a clarification.

I hope that in part at least should answer your question Wfldg,

best regards Chris


 
Re: Average hunter skills

My experience with hunters involves sitting in on quite a few hunter safety classes, and being on the range to help run hunter sight-in sessions the w/e before opening day. IMHO, most hunters, myself included, do not spend enough time practicing the shots they will need to execute in order to humanely and effectively harvest their game.

KD bench shooting predominates, hasty UKD positional shooting is practically nonexistent.

It reflects on their (our?) performance in the field. Gutshot deer that cross several property boundaries before slowly withering away are common to our area, and probably most other areas, as well, are not uncommon. We don't do such a great job, as a group, and I thinks we need to do better. The animals are entitled to be harvested with a minimum of needless maiming and pursuit. Better marksmanship performance would make the hunters' overall task easier as well.

I can understand how some hunters might criticise those who regularly make the long shots. But I think those same hunters fail to recognize that some hunting environments are not well suited to other techniques. Most of us, like myself here in the hilly, wooded Northeast, fail to consider that other hunters are tasked to deal with vast ranges of flat, bare plains. Stalking into a short range shot is a simply ludicrous demand. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say those hunters do well to do a lot of bench and prone practice, it suits their needs very well. Us other folks need to be prepared for a very brief opportunity to shoot at a fast moving quarry at short distance which zigs and disappears into the thicket almost instantly.

Both types of of hunting are challenging, but the 'average hunter skills' are probably not even comparable.

Greg
 
Re: Average hunter skills

I thought this thread was about a lack of dedication to marksmanship skills among American hunters?
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wlfdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought this thread was about a lack of dedication to marksmanship skills among American hunters? </div></div>

It is but <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get out of the truck and off the ATV, it's not hard to get close </div></div> he has a point

..............

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my opinion shooting skills are VERY important for hunting. </div></div>

50/50
smile.gif

 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CD0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wlfdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought this thread was about a lack of dedication to marksmanship skills among American hunters? </div></div>

It is but <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get out of the truck and off the ATV, it's not hard to get close </div></div> he has a point

..............

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my opinion shooting skills are VERY important for hunting. </div></div>

50/50
smile.gif

</div></div>
I see his point. I think hunting from a vehicle of any kind (unless you are physically restricted) should be illegal.

IMO Shooting skills are more than 50%. I would say much more. If you can't put the bullet where you want it (with in a clean kill zone) every time due to lack of practice, then for everyones sake, take up badminton or croquet.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

yeah but posting the same pictures is like a kid saying "are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet,"

it looses its meaning, credibility, and validity.

KT
 
Re: Average hunter skills

OG,

Me aspire to nobody, no thanks.
Your skills or self imposed hunting prowess are less than impressive. You can fool some but not all.

Me a fool of myself. Yeah, sure why not. I like a good laugh. I laugh at myself often. You came here with a know it all attitude, preaching to all about your beliefs and now have put your tail between your legs, licking wounds and practically kissing ass in hopes of forgiveness.

PS:

facts are fucking facts.... ( Almost forgot to say "fuck" )

PSS: You ranted and raved about how you put me on ignore. Way to follow through. LOL... grown man making a fool of himself... check the mirror.

back on topic...

I think shooting skills are more than 50%. You can do everything else right. But if you can't shoot, make the good clean shot, with the situation presented, well... all for nothing?

Practicing only keeps you "in the groove". Practicing real huntnng positions and scenarios is an insurance of sorts. Practicing at longer range opens up your potential for more success should that situation present itself.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Practicing at longer range opens up your potential for more success should that situation present itself. </div></div> I look at LR practice with a similar theory to training for a fight.

I would train 5,000 rds. for a 5 rd. fight.

I practice hitting a 8" paper plate at 600+ yds. so hitting a 12-18" kill zone at 300,400 or 500yds. is easier.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Gang...
The only things those pictures prove is you found something dead and got your picture taken with it. You could have killed them at 5 yards or 500. It really doesnt matter if you are a good enough shot. Its a new hunting season... get some updated pics!

And if you have to keep showing the same pics, please get a digital SLR so they can be of much better quality.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wlfdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Practicing at longer range opens up your potential for more success should that situation present itself. </div></div> I look at LR practice with a similar theory to training for a fight.

I would train 5,000 rds. for a 5 rd. fight.

I practice hitting a 8" paper plate at 600+ yds. so hitting a 12-18" kill zone at 300,400 or 500yds. is easier. </div></div>

I'd swear I've seen the quote, "Aim small, miss small" somewhere on this site... That seems to be a good example of that.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Practicing at longer range opens up your potential for more success should that situation present itself. </div></div>

A lot of truth in that statement. I may never shoot a deer at long range but I practice enough and have a rifle accurate enough so that I can do it should the right situation ever occur. I also know my limitations and what shots should not be taken. I also know it is not as easy as some say but experience will teach you that there is more to consider the further it gets.

Killed a coyote the other day so close I almost left a powder burn on him and I did it with a 7 mag and a 162amax. Not really needed for close range but I would not give you a dime for his chances if he had hung up on the far hillside at 450yds. There was no wind and conditions were perfect for a long shot if needed. Several years ago, I would not have attempted such a shot even on a coyote.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Nice car,what does it have to do with marksmanship or ethical hunting for that matter?
 
Re: Average hunter skills

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."<span style="color: #FF0000">Exactly</span>

This is pretty far off topic as well?
confused.gif
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Here in the Finger Lakes, hunting from any vehicle, including an ATV, <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> illegal. There may be some dispensations for handicaps, and I do have a handicapped parking permit, but I do (did, the season ended Wed) my hunting on foot.

My short gun (.44Mag Win '94) is sighted at 70yd, and my long gun (Win 70 .30-'06) is sighted at 200yd.

My preseason warmup begins with confirmng zero on the bench, then doing speed drills where I start standing with my back to the target, turn and take position (usually kneeling, it's fast and it's steadier than offhand), using tagets from 50yd to 250yd.

For all my anticipation, I didn't get out much this year, and the venison locker has no new additions.

Greg
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Weda, the sad fact is that: a fool, in your retarded opinion, is a genius in the world of those with above room temp I.Q.s. Sorry my references go beyond the 8th grade drop out level but try this on. Why don't you SPECIFICALLY identify a factual error in any of my posts on this thread that can be supported by independent evidence. The key word is FACTUAL, not your misinformed opinions or feeble attempts to emulate your hero from the frozen North.
"Obscenity is the mark of the person to stupid to converse as an adult."

For your 4 door buddy, here is my 2007 (that was LAST year) elk, taken at 250 yards with an ancient (1935) 400 Whelen with ONLY a 2.5X scope. No camo stock, no knob turning, no pillar bedding, no bipod....how could it ever be done? After all, I'm just an "average hunter".

elk2997.jpg

 
Re: Average hunter skills

So we have a scholar with us.. I'm in awe. Your the first one I done lernt from.
Since when did school have 8 grades? Shit, I knew my ma wus huldin out on me.

Lighten the fuck up. Hell, you have so many issue with the word fuck maybe you need to get laid in order to realize just how good the word fuck is. Ya know your so scholastically adept that one would theorize you knew what fuck meant.

I find it hard to believe you are so easily offended and you've been here for 2 years. Your reference to my hero would not be as such if your reading comprehension skills were par.

See I am not fooled by your word "average" used in context as an antonym. You spew bragging of such great hunting feats and bulls killed yet living where you on a resident tag is not difficult to produce. One could easy draw a parallel for the eastern whitetail hunter to produce like, kind and quality whitetails in comparison to your Wapiti.

Your factual error is simply this. You can't fool those who understand, live and hunted in the west. Nor does your ability to purchase unique and collectible firearms. All that means is you have an abundance of disposable income. Expert nor adroit does that make.
Case in point.
Your boasting of animals slain, coming from a "dude" who has never seen a grizzly bear hunting where you do. This leads one to only conclude you've been extremely, almost incomprehensibly lucky or haven't really hunted all that hard. I'll choose the latter.

Take anyone of the hunters here and put them there, residing where you do and they could produce same.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Is this guy easy to bait OR WHAT!!!

Funny how the critics of the late model Bee bring up the original ones, yet have to look on other websites to even get a picture of one. I guess this makes you a nostalgic web surfer..

And dont brag about cameras when you used this to take your latest elk picture.

1470170-Nikon-Coolpix-E3200-0.jpg


Released in 2004, the Nikon Coolpix 3200 digital camera was designed for ease of use. It offers lots of automatic settings to make picture taking easy. An ideal first digital camera
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Yeah, I agree. He says the one he has pictured is real. Yet, Me thinks your isn't a figment of imagination. After all you can see it, touch it, drive it. So whats not real.
He'll brag about damn near anything he can slip by ya.

He's an old man bored with himself... I guess we need to cut him some slack.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's an old man bored with himself... I guess we need to cut him some slack.</div></div> You know, with age comes wisdom. For example, look at Greg L's post. He gives a training exercise that has worked for him."It's all in the telling" they say.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

A little more back on topic -

I've long posed the question -

"At what range does one stop being a hunter and becomes a shooter?"
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Yup its' a good little pocket camera for snapshots. I don't know many real hunters who drag around a SLR and all the lenses unless they are truck hunters (I know there is a lot of that in Texas from pickups fitted with raised bench rests.)
BTW you are not baiting me, I'm just enjoying showing that I have forgotten more than you and your butt buddy Weda will ever know. Weda thinks Wyoming has a Grizzley bear around ever corner. Another case of room temp I.Q. as IF you actually know anything about them, they are few and far apart, reclusive and generally avoid people on horses.But I keep forgetting that there are no Grizzleys in The people republik of KAAAlarado, so how could he know dick about them? Maybe you want to check with your Alaskan idol, they do have Grizzleys up there. I'm sure he has shot at least 500.
I think it's time for this "average hunter" to put this thread away, so rant away as you'll be the only readers.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm just enjoying showing that I have forgotten more than you and your butt buddy Weda will ever know.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Tolerance of the opinions of others is the foundation of civil discourse. </div></div>

Priceless!
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D-SKIT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A little more back on topic -

I've long posed the question -

"At what range does one stop being a hunter and becomes a shooter?"</div></div> Back on topic indeed!
A hunter is a seeker. In this case a shooter is a killer.
I think that as hunters of animals we become a shooter when we find our quarry. 50-500-1500 yds., the moment you decide it's time for an animal to die you have to be a shooter.
 
Re: Average hunter skills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: our gang</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Weda thinks Wyoming has a Grizzley bear around ever corner. Another case of room temp I.Q. as IF you actually know anything about them, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">they are few and far apart</span></span>, reclusive and generally avoid people on horses.</div></div> That's no longer true. I saw 6 this past summer and fall. And sign of a whole lot more on the east and west sides of the Tetons, the Snake River Range and the Palisades. I've seen Grizzlies on numerous occasions in the Gros Ventres and the Wyoming range. I have also seen them in the southern Absarokas. I even saw one on Red Mountain in the Big Holes on the west side of Teton Valley.

OG, you sir need to get out more!
 
Re: Average hunter skills

Really? Do you see them from Idaho? Must be a helluva spotting scope. Funny thing is that I know 4 outfitters who hunt the Wyoming range, Gros Ventre, The Winds and Big Sandy. NONE have ever seen a live Griz, sign yes but bears no. As for getting out more, I spend about 90 days a year in the back country on a horse and about 60 more on foot in WYOMING not Idaho.I too have seen scat and tracks but the bears have been gone by the time I got there. Most people who run across Grizzleys are ranchers, sheep herders (food) or keep a dirty camp and don't use bear boxes (slobs).
Insofar as population density, the most basic study of published data on bears will inform you of their range requirements...they are not herd animals.
Given the summer hiker density in the Winds and Gros Ventre, were there as many bears as you imagine, we would have frequent bear attacks BUT funny thing, not one I can recall. Yes there are bears and wolves, yes both need to be delisted and subject to limited hunting but NO they are not running into town stealing kids from strollers. You're safer in the mountains than in downtown Idaho Falls.
 
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