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AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fonfirming first Sunday on the month thru December? </div></div>

Yep. First sunday of the month thru December. It went off good but it took longer than expected. Next month I will have it worked out so that we are done around or by 1300. Thanks for all that showed up on short notice and for your patience while we figured it out. Will get scores and updates posted on the site shortly. Mike Smith won it, Carl took second and Lowe finished 3rd. Again, thanks to all that showed.
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

As always, thank you to MD Brad and the AZPRC work party. I had a good time as usual. Congrats to Mike on the win and A-hit on the 1100 target. Thanks to Carl, the property owner & 2nd place finisher. I wish we'd finished a little earlier, but I understand working the kinks out of a new match. I hope to see you all next go-around.

Lowe
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

Cool venue Brad. I would like to be able to police brass without risk of death by fall or reaching into a Gila Monster den though...

Timing will come, and he only input I really have is that from those positions the shots are very tough. 25% hit factor for match winner is pretty steep. I think you could tap into a target vendor for some 1/2 and 2/3 IPSC torsos, six of them would be a very good setup for that terrain and level of difficulty. I'd bet that 1/2 IPSC's on the 600 and in shots and 2/3 IPSC's on the 700+ would put you right around 65-70% hit factor for the winner.

All in all thanks for putting on a good match, and a big thanks to Carl for the spot! Its actually about the same time drive from PHX as your spot on the hill was, but no drive through town....
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I usually drive the vette in condition most people wont, but nothing I can do about the 2 inch front bumper clearance
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</div></div>

A good running start will get you over almost anything.
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

Brad!! Great shoot!! Had a good time and enjoyed the new venue. I hear others saying to make the target bigger and easier so you can have 60-75% hits!!! I would say all the targets were hittable and it makes it more of a challenge. I'm not saying that because I won either!! I think it gave everyone the same chance and allowed other shooters to win that have never even come close to winning before. look at the top 3 names!! I have never seen them in the winners circle before or even close!! My only suggestion may be some bigger flags to help spot the target. I say keep it the same but maybe more targets to keep from cross shooting! The dueling tree was great!!! Thanks again Brad!!! You and Lightnin did a great job!
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

I disagree with Mike, bigger flags? Isn't this game partly finding and identifying your targets.

25% hit ratio for the winner? How are you ever gonna get new shooters to show up? They're already intimidated enough just by our equipment. They see a seasoned veteran shooting 25% and win, who wants to throw that kind of time and effort loading ammo, driving almost 4 hours from the east side of phoenix to miss just about every shot. Thats discouraging!!

I think Brad has a great venue from the pics I saw, but your losing people with the difficulty.
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

Scott, I agree with the finding and identifying a target. But you are contradicting yourself! You want the targets easier but you can't use a slightly larger flag to get you in the general direction? So how does that help a new shooter? If you want to get new shooters to show up it has to be where everyone has the same chance of winning. You say it is discouraging if the targets are too hard!! It is also discouraging to " Donate" to the same winners all the time. Why would a new shooter want to see the same people win almost every time? Then he feels he has no chance of winning at all so why come back. I don't come out to the matches to win and see how much "Booty" I can walk away with!! If there were no prizes I would still come to the matches just to become a better shooter!! Would you? Scott in all of the matches I have shot I have never hit this many targets! Even in the 60-75% matches! I am a relatively new shooter to this sport and I wasn't discouraged at all by the difficulty of the targets! If a few people won't show up because the targets aren't easy then as Dirty Harry once said" A man needs to know his own limitations"!! Just saying!!
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sturkis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a relatively new shooter to this sport and I wasn't discouraged at all by the difficulty of the targets!</div></div>

Relatively speaking most "relatively new shooters" don't have ELR experience with a 408 Cheytac, or are shooting a custom 6.5x47 Lapua in a KMW Sentinel.
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While I don't agree with you, you logic was workable until you pulled the "new shooter" card.

So you think that someone accidentally hitting your target in a crossfire when the targets are inches apart at just under 400yds, while both shooters are shooting offhand should garner the same points as your first round hit at 1089? Really?

Brad- my comments are meant as constructive criticism, take 'em or leave 'em. My input comes from shooting a couple matches and hearing from a couple shooters on what they like to see in a match.
I think the venue's got a huge amount of potential and would love to see it be the home of some great shooting.
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sturkis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott, I agree with the finding and identifying a target. But you are contradicting yourself! You want the targets easier but you can't use a slightly larger flag to get you in the general direction? So how does that help a new shooter? If you want to get new shooters to show up it has to be where everyone has the same chance of winning. You say it is discouraging if the targets are too hard!! It is also discouraging to " Donate" to the same winners all the time. Why would a new shooter want to see the same people win almost every time? Then he feels he has no chance of winning at all so why come back. I don't come out to the matches to win and see how much "Booty" I can walk away with!! If there were no prizes I would still come to the matches just to become a better shooter!! Would you? Scott in all of the matches I have shot I have never hit this many targets! Even in the 60-75% matches! I am a relatively new shooter to this sport and I wasn't discouraged at all by the difficulty of the targets! If a few people won't show up because the targets aren't easy then as Dirty Harry once said" A man needs to know his own limitations"!! Just saying!! </div></div>

Mike, you have your head wrapped around the winning part. I've shot matches all across the country for many years, I've put on one of the biggest matches in this country successfully 3 years in a row. I've put on new shooter clinics for free. If a new guy expects to win his first couple times out with no experience, maybe he should go play horseshoes. New folks coming out need to gain experience and get them enthusiastic by hitting freakin targets, not by shooting at his target and hit his buddy's cause his wind call wasn't right.

Knowing your limitations is exactly what you should expect, not walking off the line pissed off when you're not hitting targets, no expereience learned there huh? Or how about bullshitting a buddy saying they kicked you off the line because you had a muzzle break, you damn well know that wasn't us like your buddy accused us of doing.

I truly appreciate your donation for the matches, even though I've never gotten to take home the cash, but as a sponsor and have given away an $800 upper last year, I thank you for that.
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

Well here is the way I see it!! First off I don't care about the winning thing!! I had fun! The only complaints are from the are from some of the better shooters. Some of whom were not even at the match. I say Brad puts on the match and he can set it up any way he wants and as tough as he wants!! Everyone has to shoot the same targets!
What you guys are saying is like Tiger Woods saying to the Masters if you don't make the course a Par 3 I won't play!!
Scott , I not sure what you are referring to about the muzzle brake and what friend? If you are talking about when I had the Windrunner at your match and it wouldn't feed and I left the match. Sure I was pissed off but only that I had an expensive gun that wasn't worth a crap not cause I couldn't hit with it. So that is exactly what I did! I was shooting basically a single shot rifle in the repeater game. Don't know where the muzzle brake came into play.
Steve, you can have a custom built rifle and have all of the best equipment and still not hit any targets!! You were the one saying to me about someone hitting your 400 yd target by mistake not me.!! I have shot Sporting Clays with guys that have $10,00.00 shotguns and see them get beat by a Remington 1100. Equipment is only part of the game. I have never owned or even shot a 408 Cheytec but sure would like to.
Guys I wasn't ragging on you. I like and enjoy shooting with all of you. I learn things from you all. I have only been shooting this game at local matches for less than a year. I learn something at every match. But just because one venue is tougher than another doesn't mean try to change it!! Change yourself and shoot harder and shoot better!! Thats what I am trying to do. Hope I didn't offend or hurt someones feeling as it wasn't meant to be that way! Enough said!!!
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

Thanks again Brad for putting on another great match and I really liked the new venue. I was doing a bit (a lot) of grumbling about the targets but I'm sure you'll get it all figured out.

I think what Steve and Scott are ultimately saying based of experience in actually setting up and running matches are that some variety is needed.
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

Mike, you didn't hurt anyones feelings, by no means.
Ultimately this whole discussion is meant for constructive criticism. Brad does a hell of a job putting on matches and its unanimous that we all appreciate his hard work.
My point(only because i don't want to put words in others mouths) is that I thought a hit ratio of 25% for the winner is a little too low, especially on how Brad is trying to get new folks out there. It might be a little discouraging for them.
Mike you shot great this past weekend, with you shooting more and more matches you are getting better, thats what I'm talking about. Your first time with your first bolt gun was a little intimidating I'm sure as was mine(25 hour bash at rifles only).
All in all its Brads match and i'm not telling him how to run it, just an observation from the bleachers.
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

Appreciate the dialogue!! Also appreciate the compliment!! We're good!! Thats how we hash things out!! I say lets go shooting and have fun!! Thats the name of the game!!!

I again want to thank Brad and Lightnin for their hard work and effort!!! It is greatly appreciated!!!
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

Congrats MIke and great shooting!

Thanks Brad and all those that put in the hard work necessary.

Big thanks to Carl for letting us shoot on your property!

I like all you guys and for sure don't want to offend anyone but I subscribe to the high hit ratio school of thought.

I think we are all there just to enjoy out sport and if we win it's just icing on the cake.

Plain and simple I'm having more fun if I'm clanging steel.Conversly if I'm missing a bunch I'm frustrated.

Something to ponder:

As some of you know I shoot field target air rifle.It's also a 40 shot course and consists of all steel knock over targets.I'm responsible for course set up in the summers.The courses are never the same but we set them up so the best shooters on a good day have a chance to shoot a perfect 40.It's extemely rare but has happened a few times.I did it once in a 12 year span but never thought I would.The beginers usually score about 25%,middle of the pack about 60% and the top shooters above 90%.Our targets are approx 2 moa in size and in case anybodies wondering we have to read wind too.FT is a fun sport for many reasons but I like it because I'm hittin stuff most of the time.

I didn't make it to the AZPRC shoot last year at Gunsite that had the closer targets with no wind but I'd be willing to bet that those attending had the best time of any AZPRC to date.
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Brad,
If you need more steels for the AZPRC I'd be willing to donate a 40"x50" piece of AR 400 to cut up into smaller pieces.

See ya next month with a scope that works and proper dope.






 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

I wasn't at this match, but my GF and I attended his new shooters clinic... It was both of ours first time at anything even close to a match and anything past 200 yards for that matter. We both actually did pretty well(by our standards), and from the perspective of 'new' shooters I would have to agree with mike and say that the toughness of the course encouraged us and not discouraged.

I think the problem with 'easier' courses is that as mike said its the usual people winning. The people that have been through X amount of match's and get good at the usual match scenarios and territories. So making it completely different levels the playing field a little. It didn't scare me that the good guys had such low percentage's, if anything it re-assured me that theres no pressure to make it and just try my best.

The ONLY thing I would comment on to change about the course I went to at the clinic I attended was making the wind flags bigger or targets more visible, like the other guy said. The most time was spent really just finding the target. As a beginner, I wouldn't want to come out to a match there simply for that reason. There's absolutely no way I would of found atleast half of those in under 1 minute that we are given. So I would be coming out to basically shoot 5 shots and call it a day. Obviously you get much better at this with experience, but this was just a comment coming from the perspective of a 'new' guy.

Brad was a ton of help though, and never rushed us, so it was a great time. Now if only the pictures would ever be put up
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Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't make it to the AZPRC shoot last year at Gunsite that had the closer targets with no wind but I'd be willing to bet that those attending had the best time of any AZPRC to date.
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I was there.
It was.
 
Re: AZPRC AUGUST 7TH MATCH IN ASHFORK, AZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sturkis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Appreciate the dialogue!! Also appreciate the compliment!! We're good!! Thats how we hash things out!! I say lets go shooting and have fun!! Thats the name of the game!!!
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I think its great to agree to disagree. Thanks for listening to my side.