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Bad ass annealer (pics)

J

Jim the Plumber

Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 14, 2005
785
1
Washington state
www.findlaycup.net
#1
Friend of mine let me borrow his custom annealer he built to work over my 6.5x47 Lapua brass.
Mike, thanks much for the use of the machine, it works geat and it is badass too!
14y624x.jpg

333l368.jpg

2s0fx9l.jpg

2whpauv.jpg



 
#3
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would quench but I'm probably over-anal. </div></div>

Cartridge brass ( 70% CU, 30% ZN ) can be hardened only by working not by heating and quenching like steel. Zinc does not precipitate in brass. It is the heating that anneals brass and it has nothing to do with whether you cool it quickly or slowly.
 
#4
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

I quench also, but only to immediately stop heat migration. Long cases aren't a problem, it's the short Dashers that the bodys suck up so much heat on.
 
#5
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

Jim, that machine is pretty darn cool. I like the drive plate in it, looks like you can anneal up through50 BMG cases with it, is that right?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadeye</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would quench but I'm probably over-anal. </div></div>

Cartridge brass ( 70% CU, 30% ZN ) can be hardened only by working not by heating and quenching like steel. Zinc does not precipitate in brass. It is the heating that anneals brass and it has nothing to do with whether you cool it quickly or slowly. </div></div>

This was discussed at length about 10 months back here. There was a lot of discussion similar to your comment, and I thought the same as well. Sousaponte had some experience/metallurgy info contrary to that. I don't remember what it was now, but they suggested not quenching but instead letting it air cool.
 
#6
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadeye</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would quench but I'm probably over-anal. </div></div>

Cartridge brass ( 70% CU, 30% ZN ) can be hardened only by working not by heating and quenching like steel. Zinc does not precipitate in brass. It is the heating that anneals brass and it has nothing to do with whether you cool it quickly or slowly. </div></div>

Thanks for the feedback, but I do have a degree in mechanical engineering and I worked as a machinist for 6 years, quenching in this context is done not to harden, as that would be counter-productive as hardening is exactly what we are trying to avoid but rather quenching is done to stop heat from migrating. As you know metals in general are great conductors and as such non-quenched brass will have heat reach the base (albeit, nowhere near the 660 range) which why I think it's important to quench.
 
#7
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim, that machine is pretty darn cool. I like the drive plate in it, looks like you can anneal up through50 BMG cases with it, is that right?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadeye</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would quench but I'm probably over-anal. </div></div>

Cartridge brass ( 70% CU, 30% ZN ) can be hardened only by working not by heating and quenching like steel. Zinc does not precipitate in brass. It is the heating that anneals brass and it has nothing to do with whether you cool it quickly or slowly. </div></div>

This was discussed at length about 10 months back here. There was a lot of discussion similar to your comment, and I thought the same as well. Sousaponte had some experience/metallurgy info contrary to that. I don't remember what it was now, but they suggested not quenching but instead letting it air cool. </div></div>

Letting the brass air cool would actually provide a more uniform and graduated anneal. The process of quenching actually creates a non-uniform pattern of varying levels of hardness. So air cooling would be more effective in creating uniform levels of hardness. I have checked both the profile on a profilometer as well as the Rockwell of both quenched and non-quenched brass and the difference was basically superficial. Another point to consider is that the 660 we put on our necks doesn't even come close to migrating to the body/bases so really if you quench or don't the difference is marginal at best, I choose to to protect the integrity of the bases but it does add a drying step.
 
#8
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

I seem to remember something about solution precipitation causing problems. Either way though, if it works for you and you're not having problems, then I don't see much harm. Dropping the cases straight into a water bucket is going to make very minor superficial differences as you mentioned, I've seen that as well from some testing I did in school (I had access to the lab and wanted to play with some stuff).

The drying doesn't bother me, I use the SS media, so that all has to be dried.
 
#9
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The drying doesn't bother me, I use the SS media, so that all has to be dried. </div></div>

That's the way to go. I've been ultrasonic cleaning my brass but the SS looks so much better and cleaner.
 
#11
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim the Plumber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Friend of mine let me borrow his custom annealer he built to work over my 6.5x47 Lapua brass.
Mike, thanks much for the use of the machine, it works geat and it is badass too!
14y624x.jpg

333l368.jpg

2s0fx9l.jpg

2whpauv.jpg



</div></div>

Isn't that the "brass-o-matic"?
 
#19
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldgrayone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I saw a video a while back that was close to the same setup but with a case feeder. Damn cool.</div></div>
That was jmorris. Guy makes some great stuff. He has a thread on a Larue style reseting target that is fantastic.
 
#21
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

I just finished making one of the annealers with the blade offered by jmorris. I don't have machining tools and the selection of aluminum sucks locally. I ordered all the pieces precut from onlinemetals.com for about $80 shipped (with an online coupon code, search google). I made everything from aluminum and it did not need any welding or helicoils. Just order the legs in solid aluminum. The only metal part is the blade itself and the bolts. The potentiometer I got from radioshack is a bit hard to adjust though. The range is very small, not sure what I need to get to fix that.

Also for the axle I just got a round solid aluminum 3"x3" piece (you can use smaller), drilled it in the middle almost all the way down, then used an aluminum, 7075 I think, rod and hammered it in for a compression fit. You could also thread it which would be better. Then bolt the piece in, throw a few needle roller thrust bearings on top, then the blade, then a few more bearings, thread the aluminum rod and put a lock nut on top to tighten. It's super smooth and doesnt tilt. That was the only issue I had...I couldn't replicate jmorris's plans exactly, since I couldn't weld anything. Hope this helps anyone attempting this.

EDIT: Also instead of the round plate used to move the blade to the next position, all you need is an aluminum rectangular rod about 3/8 X 1/4 just over 2 inches.
 
#22
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

Here is my list from online metals if anyone is interested:

5052-H32 ALUMINUM SHEET
.125" (1/8") 5052-H32 ALUMINUM SHEET
14.000000 inches x 17.000000 inches
2 piece(s) Ordered

6063-T52 ALUMINUM SQUARE TUBE
1" x 0.125" 6063-T52 ALUMINUM SQUARE TUBE
4.750000 inches
2 piece(s)

6061-T6 ALUMINUM SQUARE BAR
1" Extruded 6061-T6 Aluminum Square Bar
One Ft. (12") Length
4 piece(s)

6061-T6 ALUMINUM RECTANGLE BAR
0.25" x 0.5" Extruded 6061-T6 Aluminum Rectangle Bar
2.750000 inches
1 piece(s)

6061-T6 EXTRUDED ALUMINUM ROUND ROD
2.5" Dia. Extruded 6061-T6 Aluminum Round Rod
2.500000 inches
1 piece(s)

7075-T651 ALUMINUM ROUND ROD
0.375" Cold Finish 7075-T651 Aluminum Round
One Ft. (12") Length
1 piece(s)

Here are the bearings I ordered from US Bearings and Drives through Amazon:

8 "Torrington TRA- 613 Needle Thrust Bearing Race"
$1.32

4 "Torrington NTA- 613 Needle Thrust Bearing Cage And Roller Assembly"
$2.82


Servocity.com has the motor for $39:
1 (2L009) 17 RPM Dayton Gear Motor $39.99
 
#23
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

FWIW,

I understand that JMorris still has some of those blades / plans available for purchase.
(If my memory serves me correctly, is the $55 plus shipping.)
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1056642&page=1

I've got mine most of the way together, but still need to fabricate the torch towers.
Hopefully I will have some time to finish it soon...
 
#24
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

The blades JMorris sells are cut very well, looks like a water jet was used. If you buy the pieces precut all you need is a tap and die set, and a drill press (a handheld will work too, just not as easy. Also the plans he sells has the top plate with a section cut out, that's not necessary, you can have both top and bottom pieces both 14x17" square, just tilt the propane tanks up to clear the plates.

The next step is to make it fully automtic like JMorris but you have to be able to weld for that unless someone can come up with a way around that.
 
#27
Re: Bad ass annealer (pics)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WTW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do those have some type of electic device to controll how long the brass is in the flame?</div></div>

If you look up a few posts up I have a link to the speed controller. It is a PWM style so it works well with DC motors. Just a variable resistor is not a good way to go with DC motors.
 
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