Baphomet gets decapitated

[Bullfrog08]

Christmas is how you celebrate it. If putting up a tree, giving presents, is done in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, then it brings glory to God. It's all in what you and your family believe the holiday to be and why you do the things you do during the holiday. It's your intent. All glory to God and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ during this Christmas season!!!

This is a fucking lie!!!! I learned at an early age, Christmas was all about my mother, and if you didn't do everything to make it the most joyous day of the year for her, she would make sure the next month was by far the worst month of your life. Of course, this repeated every year, making each year worse than the first!

Fuck Christmas!!!!! I hate this fucking holiday with passion! And fuck all of you still worshiping my mother this time of year!

 

[Namekagon]

Actually, its teaching and perpetuating a lie.

Don't be so sure.

Another tradition is that Jesus' passion took place on March 25. Ancient tradition held that conception and death were tied together, and that especially prophets died on the anniversary of their conception. Hence, Dec 25 was chosen by some early christians for his birth because its 9 months after the date of his death. This is also how some early christians originally chose Jan 6 (no joke lol) as his birth because of differing calenders for the date of his death.

It is true that the church did in later years intentionally take hold of some pagan holiday traditions, such as the christmas tree. But this was done certainly not to honor the pagan gods secretly or undermine christianity. It was done as an attempt to crowd out pagan worship and replace it with what the church regarded as true worship.

Why do you think the muslims declare their most sacred mosque, The Dome of the Rock, just happens to sit where the Hebrew temple stood? And specifically over The Foundation Stone, where the Ark of the Covenant was kept in the Holy of Holies? Because I'm sure its only coincidence that Muslims have converted Judaism's most holy sacred place on Earth into the exact spot where they claim Muhammad flew up to heaven to meet god. The only difference is the muslims are wrong .

 

[W54/XM-388]

There is also the issue of calendars having changed several times so even if you had the exact supposed Jewish date, you'd need to calculate back and figure out what that is imposed onto our calendar. If you had the exact Roman date, you'd still have to re-calculate several changes that could put it almost a month or two different.

Easter is a bit easier because it is around the time of the Jewish Passover, so hopefully everyone has the rough idea of the month long or so window it might have happened in. And again, it could be as much as 2 months + or - at best case.

The exact day of the year probably doesn't matter all that much.

Just like how many Christians call Sunday the "sabbath" (Sunday is an old Roman day for worshiping...) the Jewish sabbath is of course on Saturday, but again some 2000 years and calendar changes and such, who knows how it would actually match up to a 7 days cycle based on today if you wound it all the way back like 3000 years.

 

[oneshot86]

Damn, homey no likey Xmas.

 

[Fig]

Damn, homey no likey Xmas.

 

[doubloon]

Dating the Birth of Jesus Christ on Hanukkah

Unraveling the Controversial Birth Date of Jesus Christ: A Multidisciplinary Investigation into Historical Tradition, Ancient Calendars, and Astronomical Calculations. Discover the compatibility of Nativity Day with Eastern tradition and the Epiphany's alignment with an ancient source.

www.scirp.org

The authors' credentials are impressive.

 

[doubloon]

Easter is a bit easier because it is around the time of the Jewish Passover

Easter and Mardi Gras confuse the f*k out of most christians because they can't accept or don't embrace all the history of the bible and the fact that this "holiday" is determined by moon phases just as is the jewish calendar.

Easter is the first Sunday after the paschal or ecclesiastical full moon and then you have to work backward to find ash Wednesday and Fat Tuesday.

 

[UpSideDown]

Interesting. Sadly the truth of the matter is even more interesting.

I honor God and know Christ as savior so dont start any ridiculous attacks. That said, the whole Christmas thing is basically a lie and paganism at its finest.

-First, Jesus wasnt born on 25 December, rather more likely in Sept or Oct.. 25 Dec was cholen by the Roman church to coincide with solstice celebrations.

-The tree goes back to the worsip of Nimrod who married his mother. When he died his mother saw a fresh sprout out of a cut tree and said he had been reborn.

-Santa...Possibly a fellow St. Nicholas but also tied to Odin of the Norse mythology.

Google it.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrO6XNUcHxl9I0JrbJXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNncTEEcG9zAzMEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1702682837/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.rawgist.com%2fthe-true-origin-of-christmas-child-sacrifice-nimrod-christmas-tree-santa%2f/RK=2/RS=N4ACr4h9o6SutncGhF9QTkMn2Pk-

Certainly the celebration of the nativity of Christ our saviour is reason for a feast! It saddens me that Christians might think that Christmas is a pagan holiday though. I'd love to share some insight into why that is not the case, and why it is truly ours.

We do not know what day Jesus Christ was born on, but the date of celebration isn't attempting to be on the same day as his birth. The early church chose to celebrate on December 25th to offset a pagan ritual - it is in opposition to a pagan ritual, in celebration of the true light coming into the world - not in joining with the pagans.

The use of the Christmas tree stems from St. Boniface bringing the truth of Christ to pagans who were worshipping Thor in Germany. He stopped a human sacrifice, cut down their ritual tree, and instructed them instead to have a small fir tree as their holy tree. Their homes that gave them shelter were made of fir logs, and it is evergreen, a symbol of the life that we are offered. There is nothing pagan in this; rather the opposite, the pagan ritual tree was cut down and the truth of the living God was shared with these pagans.

"Santa Claus" stems from Saint Niklaus, which is a translation of Saint Nicholas. St. Nicholas was the Bishop of Myra. He is celebrated on December 6th, inside the nativity fast, particularly for his generosity and mercy done to others. He knew of three daughters of a poor man who had no dowry to bring into marriage. This would have made marriage all but impossible for them and due to their poverty it appeared that if they wanted to eat it would have requried their own prostitution. In the night St. Nicholas went to their home and left enough gold in their shoes to provide money and a dowry. It isn't common in the US but in the old countries it's normal to have children leave their shoes out and to put coins, treats or oranges in them. St. Nicholas is also known for his staunch position against Arias, the proponent of Arianism in the early church.

These things are not pagan, though so much of Christian tradition is lost in the west. These traditions are beautiful and I hope this can offer some clarity as to why they are truly ours, and do not belong to the pagans.

 

[Maggot]

Damn, homey no likey Xmas.

Its not that, I just think that it all needs to be considered.

Never forget this simple statement.

"

Genesis 3​

​

King James Version​

​

​

3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.

 

[232593]

As for Lt. Cassidy:
View attachment 8297148


Seems like striking down craven images has a proud history.

/pol/ version

 

[Maggot]

Certainly the celebration of the nativity of Christ our saviour is reason for a feast! It saddens me that Christians might think that Christmas is a pagan holiday though. I'd love to share some insight into why that is not the case, and why it is truly ours.

We do not know what day Jesus Christ was born on, but the date of celebration isn't attempting to be on the same day as his birth. The early church chose to celebrate on December 25th to offset a pagan ritual - it is in opposition to a pagan ritual, in celebration of the true light coming into the world - not in joining with the pagans.

The use of the Christmas tree stems from St. Boniface bringing the truth of Christ to pagans who were worshipping Thor in Germany. He stopped a human sacrifice, cut down their ritual tree, and instructed them instead to have a small fir tree as their holy tree. Their homes that gave them shelter were made of fir logs, and it is evergreen, a symbol of the life that we are offered. There is nothing pagan in this; rather the opposite, the pagan ritual tree was cut down and the truth of the living God was shared with these pagans.

"Santa Claus" stems from Saint Niklaus, which is a translation of Saint Nicholas. St. Nicholas was the Bishop of Myra. He is celebrated on December 6th, inside the nativity fast, particularly for his generosity and mercy done to others. He knew of three daughters of a poor man who had no dowry to bring into marriage. This would have made marriage all but impossible for them and due to their poverty it appeared that if they wanted to eat it would have requried their own prostitution. In the night St. Nicholas went to their home and left enough gold in their shoes to provide money and a dowry. It isn't common in the US but in the old countries it's normal to have children leave their shoes out and to put coins, treats or oranges in them. St. Nicholas is also known for his staunch position against Arias, the proponent of Arianism in the early church.

These things are not pagan, though so much of Christian tradition is lost in the west. These traditions are beautiful and I hope this can offer some clarity as to why they are truly ours, and do not belong to the pagans.

Some are, some arent. There ia more than one explanation for the tree.

 

[Dogtown]

Sigh...this is why religious zealotry is incompatible with democracy.

 

[Maggot]

Sigh...this is why religious zealotry is incompatible with democracy.

Religious zealotry is compatible with nothing.....except religious zealotry.

 

[Makinchips208]

Easter and Mardi Gras confuse the f*k out of most christians because they can't accept or don't embrace all the history of the bible and the fact that this "holiday" is determined by moon phases just as is the jewish calendar.

Easter is the first Sunday after the paschal or ecclesiastical full moon and then you have to work backward to find ash Wednesday and Fat Tuesday.

Wasn’t Easter (not originally called Easter) originally about worshiping astarte who dropped an egg or something? The Universal church said the Passover was on the same time so religious people didn’t have to sit at home bored while the sinners were having their party? So worship the goddess of fertility at the height of fertility during the spring equinox? I probably got the details wrong but I’m sure it was quite the wild rumpus.

As far as Christmas, I like Christmas, Jesus WAS born at some point, so we set a day to celebrate that.
The one thing I hate about Christmas is sitting in the lap of the smelly bearded fat guy at the mall so mom can take a picture.

 

[doubloon]

Wasn’t Easter (not originally called Easter) originally about worshiping astarte who dropped an egg or something?

You got me on that one but now I have to go read about it. There goes my afternoon gun tinkering time.

Full disclosure about the lunar based dates for Easter. I had no idea why Easter drifted either until I was in at a job working on some calendar program trying to create formulae for prepopulating holidays and events ... second tuesday, last thursday kind of stuff

Then I hit Easter ...wtf ... Easter is the first Sunday ... on or after ... the what ... after wtf?? So that makes Ash Wednesday the 7th Wednesday before all the wtf

BTW -- PSA -- Ash Wednesday and Valentine's day are the same day in 2024 ... hasn't happened since before I started breathing.

As far as Christmas, I like Christmas, Jesus WAS born at some point, so we set a day to celebrate that.
The one thing I hate about Christmas is sitting in the lap of the smelly bearded fat guy at the mall so mom can take a picture.

Si, focus is an issue.

Homeless drunk guys in fake beards isn't the only reason to hate the season.

 

[232593]

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Isn't it great when man tries to make God fit into a nice little box?

 

[Inifinty]

-First, Jesus wasnt born on 25 December, rather more likely in Sept or Oct.. 25 Dec

I would agree and can be proven, as we know the month of John's birth and exactly when his mother met Mary who had just conceived Jesus.

So consider human gestation takes 9 months. The month of December marks not the birth of Christ, but more importantly the date the Lord came in flesh into this world that we all might return to the right side of heaven. Birth is not the major milestone here, but conception.

The Lord likens himself to an everlasting Fir tree. The devil knows reality and has been mimicking, and poisoning the well via religions and rituals since the beginning of flesh men walking the earth.

Christmas is not commanded to remembered as is the high holy day of passover (not ishtar/easter). But its roots are not as pagan as the devil would have us believe.

 

[Maggot]

As usual I didnt take time to express my intent sufficiently.

When younger I was as far for God as anyone youve likely met. But for a couple if instances I can only call divine intervention, or miracles, I would be long dead and would have taken others with me. To me the message of salvation is so pure that to attach any thing outside of the message is ...at very least distasteful, more like dilution and pollution.

I think its been debated here enough to allow that none of really know the date or time of Jesus birth. Thats not as important as his message. Santa Claus? Regardless of the origin of the legend, there is no fat little elf with magic reindeer who visits every child in the world with gifts. That is an out and out lie. So does it matter? Consider whats below. An old friend gave me this years back and it hit hard.

So regardless of the origin of Santa, its teaching a lie, and that lie, those words, have deep implications in their lives. I saw a cartoon years back that said........"Father Christmas bring all good things." Really, I thought they came from God. what you teach and allow they become.

What you do is youre right, absolutely. I just hate seeing the purity of salvation being diluted by fantasy. Easier to keep it simple.

And remember the quote I posted above..."The serpent was the most subtle of beasts."

Maggot out.

 

[Maggot]

I would agree and can be proven, as we know the month of John's birth and exactly when his mother met Mary who had just conceived Jesus.

So consider human gestation takes 9 months. The month of December marks not the birth of Christ, but more importantly the date the Lord came in flesh into this world that we all might return to the right side of heaven. Birth is not the major milestone here, but conception.

The Lord likens himself to an everlasting Fir tree.

The devil knows reality and has been mimicking, and poisoning the well via religions and rituals since the beginning of flesh men walking the earth.

Christmas is not commanded to remembered as is the high holy day of passover (not ishtar/easter). But its roots are not as pagan as the devil would have us believe.

Not disputing that but but I dont remember seeing it. Do you have a link/reference.

 

[Makinchips208]

I know there are many opinions either way, in dates and times, I don’t know the facts,
however,
I do believe a special girl named Mary gave birth to a special baby boy, mostly alone, and in poor conditions. The baby she carried did in fact change the course of the world. And still roughly 2,000 years later He still changes lives.

 

[thejeep]

Well if I had ever wanted to knowing go to Iowa on purpose(other than just accidentally intersecting a state line on the interstate and immediately doing a uey) I would have just dropped a deuce on top of the goat head, much like the time the boiling river was closed in Yellowstone because of covid. Nothing screams antithesis like a fresh steamer.

Oh yeah fuck Iowa.

 

[thejeep]

Well if I had ever wanted to knowing go to Iowa on purpose(other than just accidentally intersecting a state line on the interstate and immediately doing a uey) I would have just dropped a deuce on top of the goat head, much like the time the boiling river was closed in Yellowstone because of covid. Nothing screams antithesis like a fresh steamer.

Oh yeah fuck Iowa.

I guaran gd tee that if there was a body of water on the border of Iowa and Jesus and the disciples were fishing on it. Jesus would say hey guys only cast out your nets on the left. The disciples would reply, " why Lord" Jesus would say fuck Iowa. Then they would leave knowing all states that border Iowa are shit also.

 

[doubloon]

Not disputing that but but I dont remember seeing it. Do you have a link/reference.

I think he's referring to Luke 1:26-45 for a start

Gestation was generally considered to be about 270 days or a little over 38 weeks .

Elizabeth being in the 6th month of her pregnancy may induce a little mathematical slop since it could have been the first week or the last week of the 6th month. But some "scholars" interpret this strictly as Elizabeth's son being precisely 3 months away from being born (last week of the 6th month) and Mary's pregnancy precisely starting at that moment in time.

 

[BurtG]

We are a christian nation and we’re founded as such

All the Satan and cow and socialist worshippers shojld
Be deported

 

[HeavyAssault]

You can please some people all the time, all the people some of the time, but NEVER can you please all the people all the time.

 

[BurtG]

Yeah you shouldn’t worry about pleasing some sub minority of freaks.

Be it mentally ill satanist or mentally ill transvestites.


It’s like when one idiot gets killed doing something dumb then we all get to suffer through more laws and “safety” features.


If you don’t like Christianity, leave.

Imagine going to some durka durka country and trying to put a nativity scene there. SMFH. They would never try and do that

 

[TheMammoth]

I applaud his valor but by our laws they had as much right to put their statue up as the nativity scene.

To me its kind of like the ACLU defending the NRA. I may not, and dont, agree with their stance but defend their right to it.

I'm praying to come across someone burning our flag.

I agree on the freedom of speech piece, but I guarantee the people who put this up are the same ones who want to take what's left of the Bible out of public schools and government in general. Can't have it both ways.


Ultimately, it would be best for all to recognize who God is and respond appropriately

Massive boomer takes here. Extending the benefits of your morality to people who seek to remove them from you is a losers game and is exactly what led us to the state we are in now. Fuck degeneracy make no deals with evil.

Sigh...this is why religious zealotry is incompatible with democracy.

Jokes on you, democracy is fucking gay and incompatible with the reality of the human condition. That's why we are supposed to have a republic not some spiral to lowest common denominator that leaves us with homosexuality as the primary export of our country 250 years on.

 

[BurtG]

That's why we are supposed to have a republic

Fuckin A

 

[doubloon]

You can please some people all the time

I have not met these people.

 

[doubloon]

We are a christian nation and we’re founded as such

All the Satan and cow and socialist worshippers shojld
Be deported

John Adams:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen ...

 

[DocRDS]

I understand this Freedom of Worship stuff, but the Church of Satan is really just a bunch of trolls abusing the rules. I'm not sure if we should tolerate it because "Who decides who is trolling and who is serious" I mean you're pretty fucked up worshiping the embodiment of evil.

But to our friend @Maggot and his crusade against Christmas with the paganism and all that jazz and when was Jesus born etc... I give you these wise words of wisdom about arguing details:


Merry Christmas ya salty bastards!

 

[Maggot]

I understand this Freedom of Worship stuff, but the Church of Satan is really just a bunch of trolls abusing the rules. I'm not sure if we should tolerate it because "Who decides who is trolling and who is serious" I mean you're pretty fucked up worshiping the embodiment of evil.

But to our friend @Maggot and his crusade against Christmas with the paganism and all that jazz and when was Jesus born etc... I give you these wise words of wisdom about arguing details:


Merry Christmas ya salty bastards!

Not a crusade, just putting info out there. If you read my post #69 you'll understand (I hope) why I find it offensive.

 

[doubloon]

you'll understand (I hope) why I find it offensive

Offensive that other people have opinions and/or beliefs that may differ from yours and go around enjoying life without forcing you to do the same?

Why you hate freedom bro?

 

[Maggot]

Offensive that other people have opinions and/or beliefs that may differ from yours and go around enjoying life without forcing you to do the same?

Why you hate freedom bro?

Youre welcome to any opinion you wish to hold, that was never part of my intent. Only to provide information for consideration and discussion.

Why do yu hate reading comprehension, bromeister?

 

[lariat]

I find myself continually torn on these matters. Is there a right answer? Probably, but the horse is out of the barn. I personally find the consumerism surrounding it revolting - how did we go from celebrating Christ's birth in this world as a Savior to buying super worthless stuff? The answers are legion but none of them are to me justifiable. But beyond personal choices, its all charging against windmills as society isn't going to give any of it up.

On the other hand, I'm not sure the extended nuclear family would hold together as long as it has without both Thanksgiving and Christmas. It seems to be the only time people remember who their people are any more. It's sad. We have become such a shallow, self-serving society, worldwide. But I also think that some of those who want to get rid of Christmas want to delete these family ties and make a society that has no foundation - getting rid of any ties to family or God is critical in doing this.

If someone doesn't want God or Christmas, fine. If they don't subscribe to the way Christmas is done and want to do it their way, that's cool too. I see what you guys are saying about some of this having pagan roots; the question I have is whether or not it matters from a spiritual or worldly sense. I'm not sure it does for the vast majority of the people. Most that celebrate it aren't faithful Christians anyway, so its kind of a moot point. For those that are among the faithful that hold to the tenets of the Faith, each will need to decide for themselves what is right. The defining factor is the same as always: are my actions hurting others or helping them?

Not gonna lie though, the ringing of the bell by the dude fronting as Santa in front of the store grates on my ears and sensibilities. It's like a subliminal guilt trip.

 

[TexPatriot]

Interesting. Sadly the truth of the matter is even more interesting.

I honor God and know Christ as savior so dont start any ridiculous attacks. That said, the whole Christmas thing is basically a lie and paganism at its finest.

-First, Jesus wasnt born on 25 December, rather more likely in Sept or Oct.. 25 Dec was cholen by the Roman church to coincide with solstice celebrations.

-The tree goes back to the worsip of Nimrod who married his mother. When he died his mother saw a fresh sprout out of a cut tree and said he had been reborn.

-Santa...Possibly a fellow St. Nicholas but also tied to Odin of the Norse mythology.

Google it.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrO6XNUcHxl9I0JrbJXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNncTEEcG9zAzMEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1702682837/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.rawgist.com%2fthe-true-origin-of-christmas-child-sacrifice-nimrod-christmas-tree-santa%2f/RK=2/RS=N4ACr4h9o6SutncGhF9QTkMn2Pk-

Oden had only one eye and was always escorted by an unkindness of ravens.

 

[TexPatriot]

You can thank Constantine for blending paganism with Christianity to make Christianity more palatable to the empire. There is no harm done in Christmas trees, Easter eggs, etc., if all glory is given to Christ. Most of us still don't worship the pagan gods with these rituals and objects. I agree with you. Christians would do a better job, if we didn't do the non-Christian rituals of our holy days.

Christmas is a good thing.

It may have started out as a Pagan ritual but Christians made it into the most humane, civilized day of the year that brings the best out in people. So Pagans can just fuck off.

God-1 Pagans-0

 

[doubloon]

I find it offensive.

 

[MadDuner]

This is a fucking lie!!!! I learned at an early age, Christmas was all about my mother, and if you didn't do everything to make it the most joyous day of the year for her, she would make sure the next month was by far the worst month of your life. Of course, this repeated every year, making each year worse than the first!

Fuck Christmas!!!!! I hate this fucking holiday with passion! And fuck all of you still worshiping my mother this time of year!

My loving wife and your mother sound like they are twins....

 

[232593]

I understand this Freedom of Worship stuff, but the Church of Satan is really just a bunch of trolls abusing the rules. I'm not sure if we should tolerate it because "Who decides who is trolling and who is serious" I mean you're pretty fucked up worshiping the embodiment of evil.

But to our friend @Maggot and his crusade against Christmas with the paganism and all that jazz and when was Jesus born etc... I give you these wise words of wisdom about arguing details:


Merry Christmas ya salty bastards!

Exactly.

Let’s see them put that shit up in Dearborn Michigan.

 

[MadDuner]

Exactly.

Let’s see them put that shit up in Dearborn Michigan.

Isn’t it sad that the people that are often referred to as “animals” - have stronger moral convictions than typical Americans?

 

[Maggot]

My loving wife and your mother sound like they are twins....

Triplets. To hell with Jesus I've got food to make.............................

 

[Maggot]

Isn’t it sad that the people that are often referred to as “animals” - have stronger moral convictions than typical Americans?

They dont they just hate better than we do..

 

[Maggot]

I find myself continually torn on these matters. Is there a right answer? Probably, but the horse is out of the barn. I personally find the consumerism surrounding it revolting - how did we go from celebrating Christ's birth in this world as a Savior to buying super worthless stuff? The answers are legion but none of them are to me justifiable. But beyond personal choices, its all charging against windmills as society isn't going to give any of it up.

On the other hand, I'm not sure the extended nuclear family would hold together as long as it has without both Thanksgiving and Christmas. It seems to be the only time people remember who their people are any more. It's sad. We have become such a shallow, self-serving society, worldwide. But I also think that some of those who want to get rid of Christmas want to delete these family ties and make a society that has no foundation - getting rid of any ties to family or God is critical in doing this.

If someone doesn't want God or Christmas, fine. If they don't subscribe to the way Christmas is done and want to do it their way, that's cool too. I see what you guys are saying about some of this having pagan roots; the question I have is whether or not it matters from a spiritual or worldly sense. I'm not sure it does for the vast majority of the people. Most that celebrate it aren't faithful Christians anyway, so its kind of a moot point. For those that are among the faithful that hold to the tenets of the Faith, each will need to decide for themselves what is right. The defining factor is the same as always: are my actions hurting others or helping them?

Not gonna lie though, the ringing of the bell by the dude fronting as Santa in front of the store grates on my ears and sensibilities. It's like a subliminal guilt trip.

These days the Salvation Army Santa gets a cut of the take.

 

[BurtG]

 

[mi650]

These days the Salvation Army Santa gets a cut of the take.

Not from me they don't! Not anymore.

 

[doubloon]

View attachment 8298131

The "counter" quote you chose says "moral and religious", not "Christian".

The idea being morality and virtue are required for people to successfully and peacefully govern themselves.

 

[Maggot]

The "counter" quote you chose says "moral and religious", not "Christian".

The idea being morality and virtue are required for people to successfully and peacefully govern themselves.

Not arguing but that then begs the question of who's religion and which morality.

The Muzzies morality includes stoning a woman to death for adultery and if you dont convert, you die.

As Denny Crane (Wlliam Shatner) put in in his commercial..."That doesnt work for me."

 

[BurtG]

The "counter" quote you chose says "moral and religious", not "Christian".

The idea being morality and virtue are required for people to successfully and peacefully govern themselves.

You think they were talking about Satan worshipers or the fucking Muzzies who we had to start the marines to fight. ?

Somehow I don’t think they would be welcome