Barrel break-in and cleaning

#51
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

I own two factory rifles both pre64 model 70's. Custom bolt actions: 6 prone rifles, 4 tactical/long range hunting, and 6 600/1000 yard benchrest rifles. My palma rifles for the last 20,000 rounds/five barrels have primarily shot Sierra 155 SMK's with Varget powder. Very clean burning combination. New barrel break-in, shoot and clean for the first 5, then shoot 3 and clean for total of 20, guns broke in. Clean it every 100 rounds till round count hits 500 then about every 1000 rounds. If I went over 1000 my X count starts falling off and bore scoping shows a nasty combination of carbon/copper on the lands. Clean it up and back to normal. I have been shooting the "new" palma bullets by Sierra and Berger and experimenting with different powders and I have to clean every two to three hundred rounds. If your rifle meets your accuracy requirement without break-in or regular cleaning by all means don't...........
 
#52
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

Like I said, only if not doing so violated a warranty, would I bother following a break in regimen. I have read too many posts written by credible people ^^^^^, who put more rounds down a tube in one week than I will in a year, and feel it is largely a waste of time and rifling.

I'll take my chances; life is too short to waste time pissing away 10% of the life of a barrel doing needless busy work.
 
#53
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

Cool... So I don't have to bow down to my rifle and stroke it like a golden calf...... I like this info. Just shoot the dickens out of it..Clean it from time to time just to scrape the crap out of it.............Thats pretty freeing... Should we let Hopps, Sweets, Outers and a few other manufacturers know that we will buying less of their products......hahahahaha I always wondered why my grandfathers Rem 788 22-250 which was never cleaned shot like a lazer.....Go figure.......SmokeRolls
 
#54
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

I should qualify things, that I believe you can take care of you equipment without overdoing it, I certainly know when it's getting past due, you can feel it. So, now, we recommend cleaning the action and chamber, because most problems comes from that area. Keeping the triggers clear, blown out, but the barrels don't need near as much love as people recommend. (Unless you only shoot once a month or so, then sure clean it for storage) But if you shoot every week, or more than once a week, I wouldn't be wasting my time.

I think the bane of the gun world is the guys like the benchresters in this case that advocate cleaning so much and never putting into context the fact they toss the barrel after less than a 1/4 of their life has passed. They make great strides in many ways, but haven't changed their stripes in way too long. When we finally went to rebarrel SHR #50 it had 4" of rifling missing and we still loved the way it shot and never complained once. It had more than 15k rounds through it. The Harbinger which still gets shot a ton needs a new barrel, but still hits under 1MOA with 10,000+ rounds through it, so frankly, I would go another 5,000 especially in field conditions, but know well enough not to expect a 1/2 Minute at 100.

Bore scopes and the like are worthless tools to the shooter if you ask me, I have heard from smith's telling me how guys coming off a range session will go home and look at the barrel and then want it changed because they "Saw something they didn't like" meanwhile the gun shot 3/8" of an inch... it's about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. If downrange is within acceptable, and practical norms, why go looking for an issue ?

Honestly, I believe it all superstition, having to clean after 10 rounds because "Bob the Benchrester" does and he won the I BE BETTER THAN YOU INVITATIONAL so he had to be right. Well, look at all the effort he puts into that one group. Its way beyond the barrel, and tossing them after 1000 rounds is pretty silly if you ask me. But I'm not in their space, I would probably act the same way if I was into that... but for me, good barrels with factory ammo and I am shooting until the rifling falls out. Doesn't mean I don't expect it to be a 1/2" minute gun, cause I do, and I can certainly change a barrel as soon as it falls outside of that, but then again, I shoot in the field and strive for a 1 MOA across the course... and I have to say I'm still not here yet and the rifle falling off to 3/4" after 8,000 is not holding me back, cause I can just pick up another.

Everything in context, and honestly, you have to acknowledge if it makes you feel good about yourself and your rifle, then its fine, until it becomes an obsession where we see posts like "I can't get the black out after 100 patches" then you need to know, you're seeing the black of your stainless steel being rubbed off, and its not carbon, or the blue you see is from your brush and jag and not from some microscopic speck of copper.
 
#55
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

Thanks LL..... Your opinions and been there done that experience does help in leap-frogging to what really matters. There are others as well sorry it's too hard to meantion all by name....Just thanks for all the good info and experiences... It's appreciated......I don't always have the time to do all the testing of different methods on what works better than what so good info goes a long way......SmokeRolls
 
#57
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

Turk, I only used them once and some one a whole lot smarter than I was in charge of all the details. So I can't say much about them as I barely every explored them, I just pulled the trigger and let the rest play out.

Could be some advantages to it, problem is I like factory, and tend to shoot 308, so its not on my radar, doesn't mean it couldn't be a viable option, just not something I have explored.
 
#58
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

LL, I understand , but maybe if you ever find the time and or 2 identical rifles it may proove interesting! It sure would put an end to claims one way or another. I can't believe you had the discipline and tenacity to finish the TRG22 test!
 
#59
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

The easiest way to do it, is, raising money for a test and ordering 2 identical barrels for my AW, then doing some work ups with one and then the other, actually can do 3 barrels, 1 broken in old school, 1 not at all, and 1 loaded with moly...

But I am not shelling out for 3 barrels when I don t need them. But a partially subsidized test would be fine.
 
#61
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

LL, good point. A guy with a cheap Savage that shoots 1/2 MOA has to be educated that he needs to spends hours with mouse milk or else his groups are some freak event that no other cheap Savage will duplicate. Barnum sure had it right. Wish I could mix Bon-Ami with oil and dye and sell it for five bucks an ounce!
 
#62
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

I have found that it's more productive to spend the time that I would normally be cleaning my rifle in front of my reloading bench making more ammo for it.
wink.gif


A wipedown is really all it gets. I make sure the action is clean and drive on. I have been cleaning the barrel every 150-200 rounds, but right now I have 182 rounds since last cleaning and she is driving on line a champ. I may try to push it a little and see where it starts opening up again. This is a factory Remington .308 tube.

There was a time when I was addicted to the smell of Hoppes and CLP. I have seen the light.
 
#63
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

Hey LL: One question remains for me. After you get done shooting for the day and it turns off raining and you rem oil or Hopps your weapon to keep the rust from setting in, whats your regimen to clean out the bore before the next shoot? Do you just run a drypatch through it, a boresnake with Hopps or something like it? While we are on the subject, I might as well pick the brains of the washed....hahahaha....SmokeRolls
 
#64
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

Well if it bothered to rain I would probably just clean the whole thing regardless, as I said, I try to be smart, just not anal.

But I take 1 wet patch of shooter's choice, run it, then a wet brush and give it about 6 strokes, 1 more wet patch, and then a couple dry patches and that is it.

I also use that Wipeout stuff on off times, I only leave it for about 5 minutes, maybe 10 if I try really hard, then patch it out. No brush with that stuff.

I have to say its been a while since we were caught in the rain, at least with my rifles, South Texas isn't big for rain, and Denver is pretty much the same, very little rain in either place. The Bore snakes are mostly dry, but I have put Rem Oil on the brushes here and there, but not all the time.

I honestly don't go overboard and even looking after it seems to me my tubes are pretty healthy without it.
 
#66
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

I just got my custom build about 4 weeks ago. It wears a Broughton 1/8 6.5 barrell. After it was done, I went to pick it up, and J. Pierce let me look throught the borescope at the barrel. It was glassy smooth.

Pierce gave me barrel brake in procedures (John is a benchrest shooter), and said thanks. That was just what my driver side rear view mirror needed to stop rattling.

Went home fired 75 rounds through it, shot perfect, felt guilty as this was the first barrel that I didnt "break in", ran some patches through it, after 8 patches they were coming out clean. have only cleaned once since, 380 rounds through it, and its only getting better.
 
#67
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The easiest way to do it, is, raising money for a test and ordering 2 identical barrels for my AW, then doing some work ups with one and then the other, actually can do 3 barrels, 1 broken in old school, 1 not at all, and 1 loaded with moly...

But I am not shelling out for 3 barrels when I don t need them. But a partially subsidized test would be fine. </div></div>

The problem I see with that is barrels are rifled by different methods: cut, button, hammer forged etc. Results would be applicable to AI but that's it. Also to many variables between manufacturers even if using same method.
 
#69
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

This subject has gotten a lot of attention, and if pressed, I'd have to say I don't really know what's best.

Some years back, I took a serious interest in firepolishing bores, and went so far as to develop a method to do it on a kinder, gentler scale that was then the norm.

The then current norm was to use bullets with embedded abrasive, and a significant industry had sprung up to support the practice.

For my own purposes, I cringed at the thought of using rouge-like abrasives in a bore, and besides, I just don't like getting other folks and their proprietary products involved in my own techniques. I have no issues with such products, I just like doing my own thing.

Then I hit upon the concept of 'non-embedding' abrasives. That's description attached to abrasive cleaning agents like JB Compound, and RemClean (and maybe also Flitz, I've used it at least once and it seems to have performed similarly).

My technique consisted of taking a box of factory generic ammo and coating the bullet with some of the product in question. I'd fire five rounds cleaning after each round, and then finish off the box of 20 with another three groups of five rounds each (or five groups of three rounds each, your choice) cleaning after each group. Cleaning method optional, emphasis on getting out as grand a majority of the copper fouling as was reasonably possible.

Borescoping demonstrated a noticeable difference in bore finish, and cleaning appeared (subjectively, at least) to be quicker and easier. Folks who had picked up on the technique reported similar results. It was my personal opinion that this approach, i.e. using the non-embedding abrasive, did whatever it was that firepolishing was supposed to do with perceptibly less mayhem being performed inside the bore and especially in the throat. Folks who measured such things reported back that throat migration was reduced with the technique (as opposed to using a more aggressive abrasive technique).

Was cleaning made easier? I believe so. Was accuracy improved? I believe that too, but gains were not immense. Was bore life shortened, I think it had to be but I also think this technique caused a significantly smaller impact, and since I have never really worn out a barrel, it's hard for me to say either way with true conviction.

Since then, I have bent to the flow of criticism negating the value of break-in and firepolishing, and when I tried the 'simply shoot regular bullets and clean after each one of the first bunchofthem' process with my brand new L-W stainless .260 barrel, I was frustrated by the absolute inability to find any traces of copper fouling after the seventh round down the barrel. Nearing the 1000rd mark, copper is still very hard to find inside the bore.

Given my apparent inability to wear out barrels, I figure, there's really not so much for me to lose by doing my routine on the next barrel(s) I acquire; but for now, I'm kinda unconvinced on the issue, either way.

You folks should do whatever you think is best.

Greg
 
#70
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

Thanks LL. Now I'm armed and dangerous. Before I was just dangerous.......hahahahahaha....Thanks for all the insight guys. ..........SmokeRolls
 
#71
Re: Barrel break-in and cleaning

I think it boils down to this:

If you are using a mass produced factory tube, there is some merit to break-in/firelapping. But, nothing that would not happen in a few hundred rounds anyway.

If you are using a quality aftermarket or custom barrel, you should not have to do anything. That is one reason they are worth the extra money. They are good from the start.

There is a noticable difference between a factory tube and a hand lapped (or even a well made non-hand lapped one). There are amchening marks left that may or may not effect accuracy but will most likely collect fouling.

These marks will disapear with time and rounds down tube (polished by the projos). Firelapping just speeds up this process.

With that said, I have no problem firelapping a factory tube to break it in. I would not dream of doing it to a custom one, and none should need it.
 
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