Sure would be nice to know what smiths are doing a switcharoo, always someone in the mix doing shady crap.
- Thread starter Frank Green
- Start date
That is interesting to hear you say that, I personally have never owned a barrel that didnt speed up significantly(20-50fps) in the 150-200 round area.
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StraightShooter77
https://straightjacketarmory.com/product/bartlein-400modbb-prefit-barrels/
These new barrels are selling like hotcakes so be quick to get your order in now!
Snipers Hide members use promo code BARTLEIN-SH for $40 OFF your order and FREE SHIPPING
Call 307-707-3181 Ext 1 to start your order today!
Shoot Straight!
StraightShooter77
The 4150 type material doesn't last any longer even vs. standard 416 material in my opinion. If it did then why on gov't test barrel drawings do they list and allow 416, 4150 or 4140? If there was a clear advantage....they would make it clear as to what they wanted.
We haven't nitrided any at all and don't see why you couldn't. I'm not a fan of nitriding as it's another variable to contend with. I know the barrel can be left in the process to long and it can actually make the bore brittle and have a negative effect on barrel life. So we won't warranty any barrel that has been nitrided.
My opinion is when you get the barrel finished....and before nitriding. You should shoot it for a base line to make sure it is shooting good. Also this will help polish/break in the throat. Don't put more than say 25-50 rounds on it. Clean it good and then send it out for nitriding.
When you get it back you should clean the bore out thoroughly to get all scale out of the bore of the barrel. In order to do this I used )0000 steel wool wrapped around a brush and soaked with oil. Took about a 100 strokes to get the bore finish back to about 90% or more. Stroked it 50x cleaned it out and bore scoped it. Then did it 50 more times. I had a 260 barrel done and after cleaning it for like 3 days I was always getting a reddish/rusty color on the patches. This is the scale in the bore left over from the nitriding/meloniting process. So I called them and started asking questions and this is what I was told to do.
Also nitriding/melonite will very minutely add to the bore size. It should only add say .0001" but I have documentation where the print calls out for up to +.001" of build up. I don't agree with this.
Later, Frank
Hi,
Batch of LH Gains on order
Sincerely,
Theis
Batch of LH Gains on order
Sincerely,
Theis
Frank,
What were the results with your nitrided 260 barrel? Also, you mentioned military testing......have they tested the nitride process on sniper rifle barrels in particular? If so, what were the results in accuracy before/after and longevity.
If this should be asked in another thread please let me know, I can create one and we can discuss there.
Ern
What were the results with your nitrided 260 barrel? Also, you mentioned military testing......have they tested the nitride process on sniper rifle barrels in particular? If so, what were the results in accuracy before/after and longevity.
If this should be asked in another thread please let me know, I can create one and we can discuss there.
Ern
Great news I was just getting ready to order a 6.5 barrel from y’all. I wouldn’t shoot either your old or new product out but I have sons and grandsons so I’ll see if we can’t get this old fat mans So Paw Smoke Pole fixed!
Happy days!!!
Are you planning to machine some AXMC/AXSR barrels as well? They need thicker barrel shank, and don't know if that's an option for the 400MOD blanks.
We can. Currently we only have 1.312" diameter material and 2.125" diameter material. So we will have to peel it down from the 2.125" material in order to make you one. Sorry but have to ding you for the oversize material charge.
Depending on which version of the AXMC/AXSR you have as the original ones had a breech diameter of just over 1.4" and the new ones are just a tick under. So between wasting a lot of material and the extra turning time is a killer.
Later, Frank
They do something like to vanes this at a gas turbine plant I work at some as a contractor. The cost is astronomical. Pretty cool process though. I imagine it would be at home on suppressor innards.
@Frank Green If one were to order a new reamer to be used on the 400MODBB material, would there be any benefit to using Carbide rather that HSS?
There is always a benefit to carbide over HSS. There’s is no disadvantage that I can think of past the cost.
Either my latest benchmark was still settling in around 250 rounds or the chargemaster was drifting pretty hard at the end of my last batch of ammo..
Chatter makes carbide shatter. You need to be very careful doing any manual work with carbide tooling.
Carbide doesn’t like chatter, you’re right, but that doesn’t mean HSS has an advantage, and you can still chatter with HSS, which shows up as poor quality surface finish, despite not being as destructive to the tool. Chatter is bad for any tool, and any machinist worth his Kennedy knows how to eliminate it.
I don’t think it’s just guys doing manual work who need to be careful. Best practice applies to NC and CNC machining as well.
I don’t think it’s just guys doing manual work who need to be careful. Best practice applies to NC and CNC machining as well.
Would the same advantages to using carbide over high speed steel in every other application of manufacturing not apply here as well?
@Frank Green - I just want to thank you for taking the time to present this information and answer these questions.
There is a very large number of very experienced and highly knowledgeable members here on the Hide (and I'm def not one of them) but its outstanding to have a premier manf come on the site and offer up expert opinions and information first hand.
Now, just out of idle curiosity, I gave some thought to the discussion above about barrel features tried to pull heat out of the bore. Its been MANY decades since I took any thermal dynamics courses but my vague understanding is that such features may dissipate the heat faster but will absolutely not do anything about the almost instantaneous peak temps reached, for example, in the throat. Basically, they may increase the heat transfer coefficient but do nothing about the initial thermal load. This will shorten the time that the material is at temp, but not the peak temp.
But I really don't know what I'm talking about! hahaha
Cheers
There is a very large number of very experienced and highly knowledgeable members here on the Hide (and I'm def not one of them) but its outstanding to have a premier manf come on the site and offer up expert opinions and information first hand.
Now, just out of idle curiosity, I gave some thought to the discussion above about barrel features tried to pull heat out of the bore. Its been MANY decades since I took any thermal dynamics courses but my vague understanding is that such features may dissipate the heat faster but will absolutely not do anything about the almost instantaneous peak temps reached, for example, in the throat. Basically, they may increase the heat transfer coefficient but do nothing about the initial thermal load. This will shorten the time that the material is at temp, but not the peak temp.
But I really don't know what I'm talking about! hahaha
Cheers
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Your welcome.
Yes the carbide reamers will last longer than HSS.
We’ve chambered the new material barrels with both reamers. Yes it does feel like it cuts differently but it’s no issue in chambering the barrels.
I feel the same way....the throat/chamber area takes the heat every time you pull the trigger. The temperature depending on the load/cartridge etc...runs somewhere from 2200F to 4000F.
At this time I’ve seen nothing that you do to the outside of the barrel cooling wise per say that is going to help what happens at the throat of the chamber/rifling.
Just tagging myself in the thread for an 1.5-1.6” OD 338cal MODBB barrel.
I think it should be 1.6” to match some cheytac size actions.
I think it should be 1.6” to match some cheytac size actions.
My 1.450 looks fine in a 1.6” action
10/10 or 8/10
?
Looks like any other rifle in a xlr chassis
8/10. Wedding ring too big
I don’t have any personal experience other than having a couple of them on order. I’ve talked to some sponsored shooters (however you want to interpret that) and heard numbers up to 3800 rounds on a 6BRA that was still performing to a PRS match level.
I’d sure like to order one of these in 7mm 8 twist CFW! At the cost I may wait and see some results before I do but would be pretty cool to get a 7 Saum near 2500-3000 rounds. Pretty much all my rifles are hunting rifles but I shoot about 1000 rounds a year out of each of em. And it gets expensive when using CFW barres for hunting...maybe I should build one for strictly targets with a steel bbl
This is very interesting!
I know a gunsmith who used to be on the evaluation and testing panels for the USMC. He specialized in testing for M40 components and ammunition.
He said they eventually settled on Schneider since the barrels got almost 2x the barrel life of the other competitors.
I wonder if Schneider is/was using a similar metal? Or if they had some other voodoo?
Anyway, this seems great! I need to make sure the barrel I ordered is made of this!
I know a gunsmith who used to be on the evaluation and testing panels for the USMC. He specialized in testing for M40 components and ammunition.
He said they eventually settled on Schneider since the barrels got almost 2x the barrel life of the other competitors.
I wonder if Schneider is/was using a similar metal? Or if they had some other voodoo?
Anyway, this seems great! I need to make sure the barrel I ordered is made of this!
Why? You think they know more about barrels than the guys that make them?
We've had about 5 different guys burn them out already. 6BRA and 6 Dasher type guns. One guy is on 4k+ rounds and it's still shooting last word we had. Most of the guys seem to be around 3000 - 3500 rounds or so but haven't officially considered them done. One guy pulled his at 3300+ rounds and put a fresh stick on for the PRS Series Finale just to be on the safe side but the old barrel was still shooting.
Another shooter and Spec. Forces soldier is taking his rifle to the finale. It's a gas gun in 6x47 Lapua and he is running his 105-109gr loads at 3100fps + and the barrel has 2k rounds on it. He said he normally pulled his barrels at 800-1200 rounds because they where toast. Also is currently testing a 300 Norma and that is at 2k rounds also.
i would think you just order longer than normal by 2-3 inches and set back to extend the already extra life of the modbb, start at 28 and every 3500 set back and inch or two and you get 7,000 plus on one bbl...
I think just about all their builds are done with bartlein barrels and they have more experience with this you do and since they build some of the best rifles out there and build all my rifles i will see what they think about it sorry if that bothers you
Thanks frank, always appreciate your time and wisdom.
The reason why he brought this up is because @Frank Green is Bartlein barrels. He is the one who came up with this in the first place.
i know but not disrespecting Frank because all my guns have his barrels but I trust the guys at GA and will get their opinion. I don't see the problem with get 1 of the best gunsmiths opinion before getting a gun built with this barrel?
Is GA GA Precision?
Doesn’t bother me a bit. It just shows that you Don’t go to the right places for the best information. George and crew are awesome, no doubt, but they aren’t going to know more about a new steel alloy than the guys that worked to get to developed and have been using and testing it long before it was public knowledge.
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Hi,
I hate to be the bearer of flip side of asking gunsmith's about new alloy.
1. They do tend to make money on spinning up barrels so you would be asking someone that potentially stands to loose money. (NOT referring to ANY particular smith, just in general logic conversation).
2. They do tend to NOT be very expedient at accepting "changes" within any aspect of the industry.
3. Willing to wager we see the same sort of "pushback" and syrup slowness of smiths pushing ModBB as we seen when "prefits" starting becoming a thing.
4. Please let us know what alloy analyzation machine that any smith has in their shop.
5. Please let us know what TESTING procedures any smith have done to come up with their conclusion aka OPINION on the regular vs new alloy.
Sincerely,
Theis
I hate to be the bearer of flip side of asking gunsmith's about new alloy.
1. They do tend to make money on spinning up barrels so you would be asking someone that potentially stands to loose money. (NOT referring to ANY particular smith, just in general logic conversation).
2. They do tend to NOT be very expedient at accepting "changes" within any aspect of the industry.
3. Willing to wager we see the same sort of "pushback" and syrup slowness of smiths pushing ModBB as we seen when "prefits" starting becoming a thing.
4. Please let us know what alloy analyzation machine that any smith has in their shop.
5. Please let us know what TESTING procedures any smith have done to come up with their conclusion aka OPINION on the regular vs new alloy.
Sincerely,
Theis
Not asking them about what atoms make up the steel..I am going to ask them about their experience with the barrels if he tells me to stick with 416 then I would go that way. If he tells me to give it a go I will. But I guess next time I should just ask you because it looks like you know everything....even what questions I was going to ask but please keep telling me what I should be doing when spending my 5,000 bucks
You are making a lot of assumptions on here.
