Pick at least 3 and get them. They all have solid data that can be relied on individually but one might have data on a cartridge that the others don’t have, some might have slightly differing data from the others, and having multiple sources of quality information is NEVER a bad thing.
- Thread starter Dustycoyote
- Start date
What three do you recommend ? Putting a blanket statement out to pick 3 does the OP no good .
I recently purchased a Berger reloading manual. A LOT of good info beyond basics of reloading, some directly from Brian Litz. That manual in turn prompted me to buy the quickload software, as I want to start loading longer than "standard" rounds for my 556 bolt gun.
To the OP: I started reloading about 2 years ago, and did that for about a year before I had to pack everything up to move (and haven't had time and space to start up again). Ive been using a Hornady kit that was a gift to my wife from her son (yeah, I don't get that either LOL) The quick change shells for the dies are nice, although that can get expensive if youre doing very many different calibers. I have what I need to load 9mm....but that's a "back up" in case availability ever becomes an issue. The ammo is way too cheap to be bothered with. I mostly have loaded 223, and cost-wise it's a wash, but I have been able to load what seems to be more consistant rounds even with basic "varmint" bullets. My biggest stumbling block is weighing out the powder, so my next investment is a Hornady auto-charge. I have also loaded 6.5 Creedmoor.
My conclusion after about 500 rounds is that it's a waste of time if your intent is "plinking ammo", but well worth it if youre doing it for match grade ammo. YMMV...
To the OP: I started reloading about 2 years ago, and did that for about a year before I had to pack everything up to move (and haven't had time and space to start up again). Ive been using a Hornady kit that was a gift to my wife from her son (yeah, I don't get that either LOL) The quick change shells for the dies are nice, although that can get expensive if youre doing very many different calibers. I have what I need to load 9mm....but that's a "back up" in case availability ever becomes an issue. The ammo is way too cheap to be bothered with. I mostly have loaded 223, and cost-wise it's a wash, but I have been able to load what seems to be more consistant rounds even with basic "varmint" bullets. My biggest stumbling block is weighing out the powder, so my next investment is a Hornady auto-charge. I have also loaded 6.5 Creedmoor.
My conclusion after about 500 rounds is that it's a waste of time if your intent is "plinking ammo", but well worth it if youre doing it for match grade ammo. YMMV...
I'd go with the Hornady guide simply because of the number of bullets they have in the marketplace. It's a pricey manual, but there's a LOT in it.
I started metallic cartridge reloading with the Speer manual back in the '70s. I also bought the Sierra manual... but I seldom used it - my point being that, while having multiple manuals isn't a bad thing, one good one is sufficient.
It's important for OP to note that, if he buys half a dozen manuals, he'll likely get as many as half a dozen min/max loads for the same powder/bullet combination. Hornady's podcast #82 gets into the whys and wherefores of that.
Search Amazon for reloading manuals and see a bunch of different ones. Wrt price - like the press, it's a one-time investment. Get a good one, pay for it, and be done. You don't need to buy multiples right away... I bought my Sierra manual a year or two after the Speer.
Yes, the 550C can definitely be used as a single-stage or hybrid (for example, with mine, I combine resize die in first "station" of a tool head with a neck-expander mandrel in station 2, then powder charging all the cases is a separate step because, for precision rifle, I drop each charge a tenth or two light with a Dillon powder measure in a separate tool head and trickle up to spec on A&D FX-120i scale).
Check out Dillon's web site... even call them on the phone; it's been many years since I called them for service but back then an actual person answered the phone. Yes, it's expensive stuff... but mine is closing in on 30 years old and the only thing that's needed service is the powder measure (which needed a plastic wear item replaced). Note that Dillon policy stipulates that unaltered equipment can be returned within 30 days for any reason.
How long to change calibers? If change-to caliber uses same size primer, about 20 seconds. The dies sets are placed into tool heads which in turn are held in the press with a couple of pins. If you have to change primer feeds, it takes five minutes (After nearly three decades, I just started using a hand primer to prime rifle cases in a separate step; handgun and bulk rifle ammo still gets done on handle upstroke).
Powder drop/measure: for rifle ammo, you'll find that many powders are extruded "stick" kernels which do not feed well through drop-style measures. For those, as I said, I drop light and trickle up (little gadget that meters out powder a kernel or two at a time). I would love to have one of the auto-tricklers that many people here have but I just haven't hit that tipping point - I'm retired so I have the time, if not necessarily the patience.
Yes, you WILL need a scale. An inexpensive beam scale works fine but is slow. The gold standard here on SH is the A&D FX-120i, which can also drive an auto-trickler. Lower-tier automation can be achieved through RCBS Chargemaster or similar but you still need a scale.
You WILL also need a caliper. Mitutoyo is very popular. I use an old-school Brown&Sharpe dial caliper. All.The.Time.
Please be clear about one thing: getting started in reloading is expensive, especially for top-tier gear. There is a lot of very valuable info here on SH that gets deeper into the weeds than a reloading manual might, but keep in mind you're starting out at Reloading 101 and many people here are post-doc level.
Come on in and enjoy. Bring $$$$$$$$$$. You can lower the $$$ requirement by pouring in more time at the bench (e.g., single stage press). And down the rabbit hole you go.
You're right... You have given a +1 to someone else's post and come to OP's rescue twice. Clearly you have contributed more original thought to this discussion than I have... If you want me to arbitrarily name one for the OP I can, but I would rather speak from my experience and give an opinion on how best to proceed in a new hobby that demands quality data to be safe and successful. In my opinion, multiple sources is a good thing. @DownhillFromHere has a different perspective for starting out and that is great! That is what a healthy back and forth conversation is supposed to look like. Complaining about my opinion on behalf of the OP without contributing additional thoughts is just weak... But whatever. Feel free to continue your critique I guess.
I personally own Hornady, Berger, Nosler, and Sierra. I also pull info from the Hodgdon site. I have used them all and cross reference them often. Hence my thought on getting more than one. They are also updated occasionally with new cartridges and new data. So eventually I will have a full book case of them. When I was new to this I walked into a Sportsman's Warehouse and I purchased 2 of the Manuals they had on the shelf to get started. If I remember correctly it was my Nosler and Hornady manuals. They also usually carry Lyman and Sierra at my local store. That's why I didn't suggest a specific manual. They all have quality data and my suggestion is to get several. I will probably have them all at some point.
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You're correct that recent-edition manuals will have up-to-date load data - many of the powders that are "standards" today didn't exist when I started.
My train of though is more around using a printed manual as a rock-solid foundation for learning the fundamentals of reloading and obtaining a wide range of appropriate caliber/powder/bullet combinations.
Since the powder vendors of which I'm aware (Hodgdon, Alliant, Vihtavuori in particular) have online load data, I go there for the most up-to-date info. I haven't used a printed manual for actual load data in decades.
@Dustycoyote , here you see how two contributors can have differing perspectives. Neither is exclusively right or in any way wrong.
So, I'm thinking more and more that I may get the Lee six pack pro.
Looks like the index rod can be removed to allow it to be used as a single/turret press. And then gives me the ability to grow into a progressive as I learn.
I'm sure the Dillon would be very nice, and I would love to go that route, but unless someone has some insight to correct me, the Lee probably gets me everything I want at a much lower cost.
If I were to go with the case activated powder drop;
Are different brands more or less reliable and accurate? Or would I be fine with any of the Lee/LnL/RCBS?
And someone told me that, for pistol rounds, the powder drop mounts to the resizing die. If that is the case, would I have to remount the drop every time I wanted to change to rifle calibers? How much of a pain would that be?
Looks like the index rod can be removed to allow it to be used as a single/turret press. And then gives me the ability to grow into a progressive as I learn.
I'm sure the Dillon would be very nice, and I would love to go that route, but unless someone has some insight to correct me, the Lee probably gets me everything I want at a much lower cost.
If I were to go with the case activated powder drop;
Are different brands more or less reliable and accurate? Or would I be fine with any of the Lee/LnL/RCBS?
And someone told me that, for pistol rounds, the powder drop mounts to the resizing die. If that is the case, would I have to remount the drop every time I wanted to change to rifle calibers? How much of a pain would that be?
Any feedback/kickback against the idea of starting with that Lee? Using it as a single press at first?
A video here to get pro / cons :
All you have to do is take out the indexing rod and you have a single stage. Use the single stage first and then move on when you get more experience in how everything works and the reloading process.
All you have to do is take out the indexing rod and you have a single stage. Use the single stage first and then move on when you get more experience in how everything works and the reloading process.
All of the reloading manuals have good reloading instructions. I started with the Hornady and Sierra Manuals. Take your time setting everything up and learn how to adjust your dies properly. If you reload enough, you will know exactly where you want to save time, it will be the task that you dread. For me, it was trim, chamfer, deburr of rifle brass. I ended up getting a very nice, very expensive Henderson Precision 3 way powered trimmer. Then I got tired of spending time weighing powder and sprung for an Autotrickler v4. I have been reloading for over 20 years and would recommend you start with the following for rifle.
1. Turret or single stage press of your choice, $250
2. Imperial sizing wax $12
3. 2 Die set, full length sizer and bullet seating die. $50 Get the lock rings that don't gouge the threads separately if need be, Lyman 7631304, x2 $14
4. 50 round reloading tray, $10
5. Case trimmer, Forster original is good, $135
6. Chamfer deburring tool $30
7. Quality scale, I trust balance beams. I like electronic, but spend money on a good one if you have to have it. $100
8. Funnel, I like the caliber specific ones but a universal will work just fine. $10
9. Powder drop and trickler, Lee Perfect Powder Measure $22, Trickler with adjustable height $25
10. Caliper and headspace gauge. Igaging EZCal is $32 on Amazon, Hornady HK66 for a headspace gauge set, $45
11. Reloading manuals, $50 each
12. Priming tool, Frankford Arsenal $80
You're probably looking at $1000-$1500 to get going assuming you have a solid bench already.
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I guess I need to spell this out for you . It is very obvious you do not have the real world experience to be giving advice . You throw out a shit ton of words that do not mean a thing .
Well, I debated on whether or not to feed the troll but he seems hungry and I feel bad for him. Since you get confused when there are too many words on the page, I will keep this as short as I can.
The first post you made was ok I guess. The next was to tell @FLIGHT762 to "go away" for offering his perspective. The one after that was to call me out for suggesting that OP would be served well by having more than a single source of data to reference. This last one escalated with you declaring that I apparently have nothing to contribute because I use words and therefore I couldn't possibly have any experience to share. Really?? That is your contribution? Don't answer that... When I am done typing this, I won't have time for you anymore.
I realize the amount of words I used was more than you can count on your two hands but you are the epitome of a troll. Now I know words are hard for you so here is my small contribution to your education... Epitome: a typical or ideal example.
TSULLI, and HANEY,
I understand that there are always differences in opinion and approach on forums, but would you two both be willing to let things drop on this thread? If you are willing to, I'd appreciate it.
Thank you both for being here and helping me with my request.
For all,
I've noticed that MidSouth and Titan reloading seem to be sites that are very focused on reloading and seem to have good prices. Anyone recommend these or alternate sites?
Anyone have any other recommendations on where to buy the reloading gear? Normally, for firearms stuff I search the net for sales at reputable sites, and end up buying from several different places. Any reason to buy from one site? Any sites to avoid?
I almost always find that online stores have better prices than my local stores.
And, again, anyone else have any thoughts or concerns on the equipment list I posted that I plan to move forward with??
I understand that there are always differences in opinion and approach on forums, but would you two both be willing to let things drop on this thread? If you are willing to, I'd appreciate it.
Thank you both for being here and helping me with my request.
For all,
I've noticed that MidSouth and Titan reloading seem to be sites that are very focused on reloading and seem to have good prices. Anyone recommend these or alternate sites?
Anyone have any other recommendations on where to buy the reloading gear? Normally, for firearms stuff I search the net for sales at reputable sites, and end up buying from several different places. Any reason to buy from one site? Any sites to avoid?
I almost always find that online stores have better prices than my local stores.
And, again, anyone else have any thoughts or concerns on the equipment list I posted that I plan to move forward with??
My only thought on your list is that you don’t need six holes for your needs. Go four, that’s all you need for pistol and rifles going to be single stage anyway due to the brass prep stages. Just my opinion but who really needs it anyway!
I am sure you're right that I could be fine with 4. But I also think that the 70 extra dollars or so is a good investment to get the extra 2 stations and extra features. So even if I use it as a single stage at first, I can grow as far as I need to with it.
As far as workflow, and a potential plan for using all the stations (and to help myself visualize how reloading will work), I made up this chart to kind of gameplay the order that reloading would flow.
Planned stations/steps in the workflow are listed in order from top to bottom. Each step is placed in the column that they apply. (sorry, not very intuitive. was made for me personally to lay out how reloading might flow. was not intended to share.)
Thoughts?
| Applies to all columns with no die change | Pistol Dies and Steps | Rifle Dies and Steps | Off Press actions |
| Clean Brass | |||
| Lubricate (rifle) | |||
| size, Deprime, Prime | (run progressive, but only use the first station, with only the sizer die in and primer turned off) - Size, Deprime | ||
| Measure case (rifle) | |||
| trim/chamfer/Deburr (rifle) | |||
| Swage primer pocket (rifle) | |||
| (remove sizer die, then add all other dies in the rifle workflow below) - Prime (at the now empty first station) | |||
| Expander | |||
| Powder drop | |||
| Powder check | |||
| Bullet feeder | OPTIONAL | ||
| Bullet seat | Bullet seat | ||
| Crimp | Crimp | ||
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Notice in your pistol column only 4 dies. Rifle is only two. So again you need a six stage progressive why? Grow into what? 2 stations you don’t need? 4 hole turret $12 plates and then you set your dues once in each plate and then just swap those out, no removing dies. Plates lift in and out in seconds. Rifle you also forgot trim. You should trim off shoulder way better! Also don’t mess with the primer pockets unless it’s crimped brass and if so the rcbs military crimp remover in a drill press is lightning fast and you won’t over do your pockets.
Powder cop and/or bullet feeder.
I'm still learning which die does what function..
For my rifle column I believe I have up to 6 dies;
Resizer/deprimer,
Powder drop,
Powder check,
Bullet feeder,
Bullet seat,
Crimp.
Correct? (Or are some of these functions that I listed separately, done together in a single die?)
I may not start with some of these dies at first (like a bullet feeder), but it seems that there isn't a downside to going with the six station rather than the 4 station if I'm willing to give up an extra 70.00 initially. Is there a downside I don't understand?
And I should have mentioned as well;
I have a lot of Lake City 5.56 brass I've saved up. So I need to remove the crimps.
And I do have trim listed. It's just to the far right in the "off the press" actions column. The chart isn't the easiest to read..
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Yes I totally understand. You are correct sir. I know there’s a reason that there are big progressive press for a reason. I think by my multiple post in this thread that I’m just trying to help this guy get going without spending a shitload of money. More so this guy is only loading 1,000ish rounds a year! That’s definitely not a six stage progressive reloader type person. My opinion on the 4 hole turret by Lee is still my recommendation. He will learn better also by slowing down imo. Also it’s not just $70. Now he’s into bullet feeders, larger die sets and other equipment. I know the reloading world, I’ve been in it a long freekin time and my opinion is just that but I think it’s a solid one for a TOTAL BEGINNER which we can all clearly tell he is. And again what is clearly going to be a low volume reloader. If you’re not pumping out over 10k 9mm a year I just see no need for anything more then a Lee 4 die carbide set on a Lee turret. Volume is for progressive other wise it’s just more money and stuff to pay attention to.
Yes I see trim now, good job. My opinion you’re going to find brass prep for rifle getting in the way of flow. Why I believe doing it on a progressive is tough. You could use a bench mounted powder drop with loading block for 5.56 ammo and still be pretty quick with a two die set. There’s just so many things that need to be done to rifle brass to make reliable and also going to function every time ammo. This is the most important part correct? A two die set will fl size, de prime, seat and crimp. If you think you’re going to need a six stage progressive for low volume reloading then by all means dive in deep. Maybe you’ll end up a 10k plus rounds fired a year guy. My guess is down the road you’ll look back at your massive amount of equipment and the money you’ve spent for the amount you’re reloading and be like dam that guy was right.
Nope, same team. I missed the sarcasm font on the first go round.
Actually, I totally agree with your approach and really appreciate the guidance. It's been very helpful.
The reason that I'm looking at the 6 station press is exactly because of what you said in the last third of your message.
I don't think this will be the way things go, but I realize that I may start reloading and find that I fall in love with it. My experience with guns went that way. I originally built one just to develop the skill and to be a responsible gun owner. I found that I really enjoyed it, at have since helped many friends and family get into firearms and shooting.
It seems to me that you are looking out for me and trying to convey your experience and give me an understanding of what I really need (and what I really don't need) to get into if I really am just a recreational guy who wants a simplified experience and cost to develop basic reloading capabilities. And that is exactly what I want.
The only thing I'm trying to add to that is that I am willing to spend a couple hundred extra in my upfront expense if it gets me flexibility in the future (in case my reloading needs or interests change)
Or, even more importantly, if it smooths out or speeds up the reloading process, or overall just makes it more enjoyable.
To me, the biggest expense risk is if I invest in something that is too much of a pain in the butt and then end up not using it. I'd rather pay more now (on automation or smooth workflow, etc.) and get something that's more capable than me, and that I may never maximize it's use or capacity, than get something that is a pain to use, or cumbersome.
So, in that context,
Would getting the 6 station press be more difficult to use for my needs than the 4 station? I understand it will cost more, and I may not ever use some of the stations, but will it be more of a pain for any reason than the 4 station would be? Or would they probably be pretty much the same user experience and functionality when using it as a single stage?
Also,
The trimming/deburring/primer pocket prep stage is a place that it seems would be a pain and a big time-sink. That's why I was thinking the cost of the Frankford electric trim/deburr unit might be a worthwhile expense.
Would it be? In my forum searches it seems that a lot of people complain about the time this step takes.
Lastly,
The reason I posted my workflow chart above was exactly because of what you said about rifle case prep being a pain, and me being a beginner who doesn't understand the process.
I wanted to get your and others feedback on my view of what is needed (or the best way) to set up and run a reload cycle. Is my understanding of what dies and stations I need wrong?
It seems like you inferred I could use a single die to both seat the bullet and crimp. If so, is that the route I would want to go? Any other recommendations?
Everyones input and insight on changes to my assumptions and plan are appreciated.
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I've read through this entirely and IF you decide to actually buy, I would go with what others suggested and get a Dillon 550C. I really don't think you can grasp what a pain pistol ammo is on a single stage. You can setup Dillon tool heads for all your calibers.
If you spent more $ you could buy the Dillon case trimmer and set up a head for just brass prep on the 6.5G. One Dillon powder dispenser is all you need for pistol if you want to be cheap. You can easily bang out 300 rounds of pistol an hour on a Dillon. The Dillon also has one of the best priming systems I've ever used.
Anything other than a Chargemaster or the like is very slow for rifle. Again, you've never used a beam scale and manually trickle charged loads. So unless you're a masochist heed the warning. Unless you plan on using nothing but ball powder for the 6.5G and if that's the case the Dillon powder dispenser would work. I think it was close to an hour for a box of 20 rifle in the old days, and that's if they were resized and primed already.
If you get a wild hair and decide to start shooting USPSA or something, you'll end up buying some kind of Dillon or kill yourself. I don't enjoy reloading but I have all the gear. And I had to upgrade to make the process faster. As long as I'm shooting I'll never regret the money spent on my Dillon nor my Autotrickler. But I can understand why someone wouldn't want to jump into it all right away.
Look what's gone on in the past few years with prices and availability of ammo and components. If you can't buy ammo, you're SOL. If you can and decide to sell a Dillon, there's always a market.
If you spent more $ you could buy the Dillon case trimmer and set up a head for just brass prep on the 6.5G. One Dillon powder dispenser is all you need for pistol if you want to be cheap. You can easily bang out 300 rounds of pistol an hour on a Dillon. The Dillon also has one of the best priming systems I've ever used.
Anything other than a Chargemaster or the like is very slow for rifle. Again, you've never used a beam scale and manually trickle charged loads. So unless you're a masochist heed the warning. Unless you plan on using nothing but ball powder for the 6.5G and if that's the case the Dillon powder dispenser would work. I think it was close to an hour for a box of 20 rifle in the old days, and that's if they were resized and primed already.
If you get a wild hair and decide to start shooting USPSA or something, you'll end up buying some kind of Dillon or kill yourself. I don't enjoy reloading but I have all the gear. And I had to upgrade to make the process faster. As long as I'm shooting I'll never regret the money spent on my Dillon nor my Autotrickler. But I can understand why someone wouldn't want to jump into it all right away.
Look what's gone on in the past few years with prices and availability of ammo and components. If you can't buy ammo, you're SOL. If you can and decide to sell a Dillon, there's always a market.
The 550C is what I originally was looking at when I started this adventure.
Help me understand why you recommend the Dillon over my current Lee plan. (sincerely asking for more info. Not trying to defend my current plan. Just trying to find out if there is something wrong with the current plan and WHY I may want to do something different.)
The Dillon costs more upfront for sure, but probably provides 3 aspects that could be valuable to people.
1. It almost assuredly can produce more precise rounds. - This one would be more valuable to me if I were a precision shooter. It's probably not as big an issue to me as I think any decent press will "outshoot" me, and my family.)
2. It will have a stronger resale value. - This one could be valuable, but really only if my reloading adventure fails altogether. I hope to have the press till I croak. Everything I read online kind of shows that there are plenty of people still reloading on 30-year-old Lee presses too. There may be some more pieces and parts that may need to be replaced, but the presses seem to be pretty durable, just like many other brands.
3. Dillon has a better primer system on the press. - This one is a big deal to me. I plan to use the on-press primer if possible. I know many people do. Almost all press reviews and videos I have looked at say that on-press priming tends to be a pain in the butt though. It seems like Lee has really improved it on the Six Pack 6000, and some users have come up with some cheap and easy mods to make it even better. But there are still mixed reviews on it. If Dillon offers a better primer system, that would be something that would matter to me.
The other benefits of the Dillon that you list above seem to me to be similar to why the Lee would also be a good choice.
1. With the Dillon I would just need to change out the turret head for each caliber. With the Lee, the dies come with locking bushings so I can pop those in and out fairly quickly. I think with the shell plate change the Lee would take a little longer, but it doesn't seem like it would be THAT much longer to change calibers. And it still satisfies the most difficult and cumbersome part of die changes, which would be re-adjusting the dies.
2. Both offer a "progressive" option/capability to make reloading 9mm palatable.
Am I wrong on the points and comparisons above? Would the Dillon do one of these better (to an extent that it would matter for someone like me?)
I am interested in your comments about powder and trimming too.
You say that Dillon makes a trimmer die that can be run in a press? So for each caliber you can buy a trimmer die that cuts the resized case down? ( I am currently planning on the Frankford Trim/debur prep station to trim/chamfer/debur/swage the primer pocket).
And you say that dropping powder for rifle is really slow with anything but a chargemaster. I had planned on getting the Lee auto drum powder dropper for the press. I would use a scale to set it up initially and then just sample test maybe 1 out of 20 powder drops as I reload. Are you saying that using the powder drop won't work well for rifle? It seems like people online generally have said that they get pretty consistent drops within +/- .2 grains with it. I expect that is more than acceptable for my uses??. Is there something I am misunderstanding about this step?
And I really haven't even researched powders yet. You mentioned "anything but ball powder...."being a problem. Are there powder types that would not work well with what I am planning?
You may have just been just saying that the Dillon is a good quality system and that it would work well for my intent, but if you were saying that some of what I am planning seems to be poorly thought out, please explain and help me understand.
Thanks!
First thing. I don't own a turret press but am not knocking them. I have a purchased in the 90's 550b (actually my 2nd) and same timeframe RCBS Rockchucker single stage. The RCBS has a priming system but it didn't work well for me. I used the Lee hand priming tool for years.
Everybody has their own system for how they load. For rifle, I do mostly single stage although I'll do .223 blaster on the Dillon. I haven't yet used it for, but can do precision .223. If I'm doing rifle and working with fired cases, I just deprime with a Lee decapper die in a hand press watching the boob tube. I'll then tumble the brass to clean it. I'll lube it all and resize it, and clean again. I check for trim length later. Annealing is in there too but you don't want to go down that path yet, lol.
I have the Primal Rights CPS and I can sit wherever and prime all the cases. I could've just bought the appropriate shellplate and used my Dillon but I'm too lazy for that, lol. I'll chamfer at this point too.
When it's time to charge them I put my seater die in the RCBS. I drop powder with the Autotrickler, pour into a case, seat the bullet. That's pretty much standard for whatever press you're going to use, some series of the above. I can't say this to be an absolute but the only personal experience I've had where someone loaded themselves a squib was because they dropped all their charges into cases in one step, and missed one. It might work for many but not for me.
But you can do all on the Dillon or combinations of the above.
Pistol on the Dillon is put a case on station one, no lube carbide die to resize and prime, turn shellplate, put on a new case, 1st case at station two now gets powder and case mouth belled. Turn shellplate, 1st case at station 3 now gets a bullet, case at station 2 is charged, case at station 1 is resized and resized. Turn shellplate again and finally at station 4 the 1st case gets crimped and you have a loaded pistol round.
With a turret it seems like you'll have to rotate through everything for one case at a time. Or do one step for 20, 50, 100 cases at a time. Again, I'm not familiar with the Lee you're looking at but I recall older comments where brands that produced progressives other than Dillon didn't work that well. They kind of set the standard years ago. Whatever you get make sure you go slow and check that each case is charged with powder when you start.
Dillion 550, 650 or 750 for all three calibers. 9mm and 223 you can load 100 in 15 min. Not sure how accurate you want the Grendel loads to be but the 650 or 750 maybe you best bet. You can save money by not getting the case or bullet feeder it just takes a little more time inserting the cases and bullets.
If you’re shooting 500+ of rounds a month Dillion is way easier and faster than a single stage.
If you’re shooting 500+ of rounds a month Dillion is way easier and faster than a single stage.
Not much activity on this thread anymore so I thought I'd ask what you guys recommend for someone wanting to just reload one rifle caliber. I am interested in loading 6.5 CM for PRS and F-Class. I am retired and have all the time I need. I haven't reloaded in 40 years. I read this article https://backfire.tv/reloading-kit/ maybe you guys can add to this
Thanks!
Tom
Thanks!
Tom
They’ll all do a good job. I started with a cheap Lee Breechlock Challenger kit just to familiarize myself with reloading. Now I’m adding things to my developed preferences. I still have uses for the original Lee press.
@Tomiboy Tom, that's not a bad list, but Backfire TV is one of the last places I'd look for any kind of firearms/shooting/reloading advice (even if you find his videos entertaining).
@Vyx313 recently put together a pretty good list. There are only a couple of items I'd swap out to match my preferences, but there isn't anything I'd recommend you change without knowing more about your goals & expectations.
@Vyx313 recently put together a pretty good list. There are only a couple of items I'd swap out to match my preferences, but there isn't anything I'd recommend you change without knowing more about your goals & expectations.
For pistol, with current primer costs the savings on 9mm are thin, if not breakeven, over buying. Primers run ~0.09 and bullets ~0.08, powder ~0.03 per shot. That assumes you already have brass. I was able to pickup 9mm for 0.22 a round at the store, though it was a Black Friday deal. Now for precision rifle, I can reload for about 50% savings per round with current prices.
I use all three brands for seaters. They will all do a perfectly fine job, but the RCBS Matchmaster seating die is the nicest of the 3 (IMO). I believe the Forster Ultra Micrometer "sleeve" is now plated (someone check me on this) & Reddings (including the Type S) aren't always machined as well internally. Also, the RCBS MM bullet window is very convenient - I now much prefer this to setting a bullet in the case. Lastly, the RCBS MM will seat very long bullets without trouble. I haven’t checked for runout yet, but see pic for contact w/ 142smk and 153.5lrht. I forcefully spun these in the stem manually for a minute or so. If you would like a custom seating stem, RCBS will make one for $19.95 + $7.50 S/H
I have never owned/used a RCBS Matchmaster FL sizer, but it would definitely buy it over the other two as well (I do own the other 2 & have used them for... over a decade). I don't own any RCBS MM sizers only because I've switched to LE Wilson FL sizing dies & will continue to do so for any new "precision" purchases.
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I have an early Mfg. RCBS MM seating die and I have a Redding Competition mic seating die. I did some runout testing between the two. I only did 10 rds. ea. When averaged, the Redding came out on top, but only by about .0015". Not enough to worry about.
I did some reading about the RCBS MM seater die and someone recommended using a Lee die lock ring that has the O ring in it saying it helped runout. I put one on it, just because.
I already have the full set of Redding bushing die & seating set.
I only bought the RCBS MM die set because it was at an Estate sale and I got the whole 308 die set for bout $25.00. This die set has a regular sizing die, not the bushing die, but does have the MM seater with the window. The window is a nice feature. It was worth the buy just for the seating die.
I did some reading about the RCBS MM seater die and someone recommended using a Lee die lock ring that has the O ring in it saying it helped runout. I put one on it, just because.
I already have the full set of Redding bushing die & seating set.
I only bought the RCBS MM die set because it was at an Estate sale and I got the whole 308 die set for bout $25.00. This die set has a regular sizing die, not the bushing die, but does have the MM seater with the window. The window is a nice feature. It was worth the buy just for the seating die.
How would you know what charge weight your powder dropper is set at without scales? So the answer is yes you will need a good scale that reads in grains. A beam scale is best for consistency in accuracy, over digital ones that float off of zero quite often.
Start with both Lyman and Richard Lee, then start adding the powder and bullet manufacture's manuals as you can afford to. More is always better! [see pic 1]
As far as trying to reload as fast as possible -
It is best to take the time to learn on a single stage press, and once the fundamentals are obtain one could move towards a progressive press. But accuracy will suffer as concentricity is lost due to the plethora of moving parts. But if one buys cheap jacketed bullets they will not fly straight anyway, so if one is going to buy cheap jacketed bullets they could go ahead on and run them through a progressive press and be happy with all the flyers.
Yet double charging and lack of a charge is two of the most dangerous things to happen in reloading, and it is harder to inspect powder chargers on a progressive press when bullets are flying by so fast. So again I'll quote the Vihtavuori manual under their reloading safety section:
"Attention paid to detail and patience ensures safety and quality!"
Personally, I use a portable single stage press (Buchanan Precision Machine) with the Hornady LNL Quick Change Die Bushings (to help save time), and Redding Competition Dies for best concentricity [see pic 2]. I run the cases through each step in batches of 50 to 100. And when charging the cases I visually inspect the batch for consistency before seating bullets. Better to catch any problems before seating the bullets as opposed to having to pull them apart latter, or even worse figuring out the mistake after the gun blows up! Yes it is better to be a turtle than a hair when it comes to the irreputable harm that goes with missing details while reloading.
Saving money goes out the window once one gets bitten by the reloading bug! It infects one to want to buy more equipment and bullets and guns.
Happy reloading comes with quality tools and components. Cheap tools and cheap components only lead to frustration! Ask me how I know? Answer - Other than having read through all the manuals and having watched every YouTube video on reloading over the years - I started with three Lee Classic Reloaders and a rubber mallet for one.
And to save time and space here I refer you to a thread on this subject posted by doc76251:
Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload
Reloading Basix: After helping quite a few folks recently getting set up for reloading I decided to put my thoughts on paper. Here is my spin on how to turn out good quality ammunition for precision/tactical rifle at minimum cost and minimum fuss. The steps I use are ones that make me feel...
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How would you know what charge weight your powder dropper is set at without scales? So the answer is yes you will need a good scale that reads in grains. A beam scale is best for consistency in accuracy, over digital ones that float off of zero quite often.
Start with both Lyman and Richard Lee, then start adding the powder and bullet manufacture's manuals as you can afford to. More is always better! [see pic 1]
As far as trying to reload as fast as possible -
It is best to take the time to learn on a single stage press, and once the fundamentals are obtain one could move towards a progressive press. But accuracy will suffer as concentricity is lost due to the plethora of moving parts. But if one buys cheap jacketed bullets they will not fly straight anyway, so if one is going to buy cheap jacketed bullets they could go ahead on and run them through a progressive press and be happy with all the flyers.
Yet double charging and lack of a charge is two of the most dangerous things to happen in reloading, and it is harder to inspect powder chargers on a progressive press when bullets are flying by so fast. So again I'll quote the Vihtavuori manual under their reloading safety section:
"Attention paid to detail and patience ensures safety and quality!"
Personally, I use a portable single stage press (Buchanan Precision Machine) with the Hornady LNL Quick Change Die Bushings (to help save time), and Redding Competition Dies for best concentricity [see pic 2]. I run the cases through each step in batches of 50 to 100. And when charging the cases I visually inspect the batch for consistency before seating bullets. Better to catch any problems before seating the bullets as opposed to having to pull them apart latter, or even worse figuring out the mistake after the gun blows up! Yes it is better to be a turtle than a hair when it comes to the irreputable harm that goes with missing details while reloading.
Saving money goes out the window once one gets bitten by the reloading bug! It infects one to want to buy more equipment and bullets and guns.
Happy reloading comes with quality tools and components. Cheap tools and cheap components only lead to frustration! Ask me how I know? Answer - Other than having read through all the manuals and having watched every YouTube video on reloading over the years - I started with three Lee Classic Reloaders and a rubber mallet for one.
And to save time and space here I refer you to a thread on this subject posted by doc76251:
Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload
Reloading Basix: After helping quite a few folks recently getting set up for reloading I decided to put my thoughts on paper. Here is my spin on how to turn out good quality ammunition for precision/tactical rifle at minimum cost and minimum fuss. The steps I use are ones that make me feel...
When properly operated an electronic scale should be zeroed before every measurement. Even the Fx-120i manual states (page 10):
- Press the RE-ZERO key before each weighing to eliminate possible errors
Doesn't the AD have that feature also?
Yes, it has adjustable zero tracking. Default is normal tracking, with none, strong, and very strong as other options.
Just a note on re-zeroing. All scales are subject to drift. You will not see if less than the scale resolution as scales do not round. On an Fx-120 that could be +-0.019 gr.(0.02 gr resolution).
I have seen digital scales drift .2 grains. That is too much when trying to work up a load, and expecially when making max loads! My beam scale does not drift - period.
I didn't see this a while back, but yeah, you definitely need a scale. I bought a used Harrells BR off the EE out of curiosity & tested it w/ H4350 (which is notorious for throwing poorly). Interestingly, the distribution looks bimodal. 0.2gr SD is... bad. I'll note that I made an attempt to throw exactly the same each time. I need to retest w/ CFE223 & test my Lee Perfect Powder Measure Deluxe w/ H4350.
See attached photo
