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Best Factory 223 for a New Shooter

F

Fattygabbiee

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Minuteman
Apr 27, 2017
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Hi all,

My girlfriend gave me awesome news. She can't wait for us to take a weekend course focusing on target shooting. After that, she will practice primarily at 100 and 200 yards.

I run a Mausingfield in 6.5 Creedmoor but for her, we have a set budget and after the course or two, won't need to shoot past 200 yards. Note, the budget won't include optics/mount as she will be using my Vortex HD2 3-18.

I am thinking a Tikka T3x TAC A1 or Bergara HMR PRO. I was considering a custom action, Bighorn Origin, but the total cost adds up fast and she would need the rifle within 30 days. Not sure I can get a complete custom built that soon.

Any other options to consider?

Thanks!
 
Both of those rifles are going to be a good option. See which one she likes better.

My only reservation would be the proprietary mags of the Tac A1.
 
C-grunt said:
Both of those rifles are going to be a good option. See which one she likes better.

My only reservation would be the proprietary mags of the Tac A1.
Click to expand...
Oh, yes, forgot about the proprietary magazines. Will need to research how much they cost. Thanks for the reminder.
 
kornface13 said:
You could save a ton of money and just buy a Howa. Mine shoots sub-MOA with multiple different hand loads
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Thanks, I totally forgot about Howa. I also read their 223s are now 1:8 twist. Which model do you run?
 
Ruger precision rifle in 5.56 would have all the adjustments needed to fit her.
 
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kornface13 said:
You could save a ton of money and just buy a Howa. Mine shoots sub-MOA with multiple different hand loads
Click to expand...
I'll second the Howa, and add a Ruger Predator. I have both. They shoot really well, and the new Predator being able to accept AR mags is a big plus in it's column.

I don't know how husky your GF is, but if weight is a consideration, the Predator might be right up her ally, and they are readily available. A little work on the factory trigger (mostly spring weight reduction) can be transformative.
 
You might want to keep an eye out for .224 Valkyrie or 6.5 Grendle in a mini action. They will have longer legs which won't be too important at 200 yards but wouldn't handicap her too much if you do go out to a 1,000 yard range.
 
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Fattygabbiee said:
Thanks, I totally forgot about Howa. I also read their 223s are now 1:8 twist. Which model do you run?
Click to expand...
Mine is a 1:9 unfortunately. I bought a 223 barreled action and stuck it in a Bell and Carlson stock. I shoot it at 600 yards all the time with 68 grain bullets. I'd like to go heavier, but I don't think I can with the 1:9. At 100-200 yards, you're fine even with the 1:9 since you won't really need to run anything heavier than 68ish gr.

However if you do get caught up on the twist rate, I say just skip Howa and go with one of the others. I absolutely LOVE my Tikka CTR and I'm sure the TAC will be just as awesome. I've been trying to get a friend to get a Bergera, but I haven't gotten to touch one of those yet.
 
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enichols said:
Tikka T3 Varmint and a KRG Bravo chassis would get my vote.
Click to expand...

My Tikka Varmint is a hammer with 75gr ELDM. You could send the stock to CDI for AICS bottom metal or get the Bravo. I ran the factory stock for awhile with the CDI and then put it in a German Gun Stock.
 
CZ 527 is 1:9 twist. Steel detachable mags (5-round). No plastic anywhere (unless you get the synthetic one). Good fit-and-finish and a fully adjustable trigger with a set-function too. Groups well enough for me. The group below was the first 7 rounds out of a new gun using 69SMK blems and random milsurp brass load I threw together:

527-Varmint-Group.jpg


The 527's magazine doesn't allow much more length than 2.335" if you're thinking of using less-stubby projectiles.

The Howa's metallic parts are actually a great deal for the money. The plastic stuff is a turn off to me. The aftermaket has better stocks and accessories though (magazines are 10-round but plastic).
 
Tikka Varmint and KRG Bravo. Done. (Unless you want the CTR in .223 for the threaded muzzle).
 
Not to derail the thread, but does anybody shoot factory 223 ammo? I am interested in getting a factory 223 rifle as well but the cost of match grade 223 ammo is as much as match grade 308. I used to shoot Hornady Steel Match 75 BTHP which saved a lot of $ but it appears to be discontinued.
 
richthe1 said:
Not to derail the thread, but does anybody shoot factory 223 ammo? I am interested in getting a factory 223 rifle as well but the cost of match grade 223 ammo is as much as match grade 308. I used to shoot Hornady Steel Match 75 BTHP which saved a lot of $ but it appears to be discontinued.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty good reason to get into reloading.
 
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I'm trying not to be blunt here, but if you don't have the time, then you're going to have to pay the price for match ammo.

Time is money. To everyone.

I hear what you're saying, but just trying to be a bit realistic here.
 
This seems cheap enough to try a couple boxes
image.jpg


For 200 yards the 50 or 55gr stuff will be fine
 
I have a Tikka T3 in a bravo and love it, The 1:8 twist shoots Berger 77gr OTM to 500 with no problem.
 
My good friend shoots the IMI 77 grain load out of his SPR and the ammo has been sub MOA at 100 yards and accurate out to at least 750 yards. Last time he bought it in bulk it was like 60 cents a round.
 
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1 more vote for the Howa Mini action, in .223 or (my pref given your stated purposes) 6.5 Grendel.

I have both the CZ 527 and the Howa Mini in 6.5G. One of them is a favorite field rifle that also comes with me every time I go to the range because it’s just so fun to shoot, and the other looks pretty on a wall. I’ll let you guess which is which.
 
stilesg57 said:
and the other looks pretty on a wall. I’ll let you guess which is which.
Click to expand...

Go take it outside and make it ugly. There's no point to owning it if you don't use it. My CZ's got lots of scrapes, dings and scratches precisely because it's "nice." Life's too short to shoot an ugly rifle.
 
A vote here for Tikka T3X Varmint. Mine is in an MDT LSS Gen-2 chassis with the MDT Skeleton stock and 20MOA rail., using MDT polymer mags. I shot a lot of Defender .223 69gr SMK ammo out of it until I discovered that Defender 5.56x45 77gr SMKs (Mk 262 clone) work better. Of course, liability and lawyers being what they are, it has to be said that 5.56x45 ammo is loaded to higher pressure than .223 and may not be safe in a given .223 rifle. I don't handload .223/5.56x45 yet... but even with the short-loaded, mild factory ammo, it's a 3/4-MOA rifle. I'm also considering selling it... it's a year old, after all... but if I don't I'm sure handloads will make it a 3/8"@100 rifle without much effort.

The 10-shot group below is typical of the Defender 69gr SMK on a 3/4" dot at 100 yards. The 77s do about the same but hold velocity farther out. Interestingly, the 75-grain Hornady Steel Match ammo mentioned above does not do well in it at all... surprising given how well it did in my now-gone DMR-variant AR...
7073338
7073339
 
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kornface13 said:
Mine is a 1:9 unfortunately. I bought a 223 barreled action and stuck it in a Bell and Carlson stock. I shoot it at 600 yards all the time with 68 grain bullets. I'd like to go heavier, but I don't think I can with the 1:9. At 100-200 yards, you're fine even with the 1:9 since you won't really need to run anything heavier than 68ish gr.

However if you do get caught up on the twist rate, I say just skip Howa and go with one of the others. I absolutely LOVE my Tikka CTR and I'm sure the TAC will be just as awesome. I've been trying to get a friend to get a Bergera, but I haven't gotten to touch one of those yet.
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20" factory 1-9 twist shooting 75's, it's even the rr prefix Rem 700 that everyone loves to hate. Here's 5 @430
IMG_7072.PNG
 
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Just got this put together for the wife. It’s a 20” Howa short action (not the mini) in .223. It’s wearing an XLR Evo chassis that I picked up off the PX. If I hadn’t come across the XLR, it would likely be wearing a KRG Bravo.

7073454


ETA: that rigged up Caldwell bipod B.S. is outta there as soon as I can get an Atlas CAL ordered up.
 
Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. That Tikka using the Defender 69g is most impressive.

I was able to hit up a few LGSs yesterday and get my hands on a few models. Thoughts below:

Tikka Varmint (not a 223) - action was buttery smooth and had a good tight fit. Defintely will replace the stock and will cost another 100 bucks to have the barrel threaded (will be using my Thunderbeast 9 as a suppressor). Post-barrel support is awesome. Can hit up Bugholes, LRi, PVA, etc. and have a great aftermarket barrel installed rather painlessly. Total cost with a new chassis isn't too bad.

Bergara HMR (6.5 Creedmoor, non-Pro) - action was smooth (not Tikka smooth), factory stock felt great and overall quaity was fine. No need to get an aftermarket stock or have the barrel threaded. However, barrel replacement seems challenging as no smiths really re-barrel them. Total cost will be the most expensive.

RPR (6.5 Creedmoor) - action was good but not as smooth as the Bergara or Tikka. It also felt the most loose. It wasn't bad or anything just didn't feel as tight as the other two. I was told the 223 should feel the same. Aftermarket support is great, barrel replacement is easy however, it sounds like I need to send the bush firing pin to have it fixed. Total cost is fantastic.

No one had a Howa 1500 or mini-Howa. However, I did speak with their customer service manager (great guy and conversation) and he recommended the mini-Howa in the Oryx chassis vs the Bravo chassis. Most affordable setup.

Will continue to research.

Thanks again!
 
Fattygabbiee said:
No one had a Howa 1500 or mini-Howa. However, I did speak with their customer service manager (great guy and conversation) and he recommended the mini-Howa in the Oryx chassis vs the Bravo chassis. Most affordable setup.
Click to expand...
The howa 1500 short action (not the mini) is the same receiver as a weatherby vanguard just fyi if you run across one of those instead.
 
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Fattygabbiee said:
That Tikka using the Defender 69g is most impressive.
Click to expand...
Defender Ammunition, owned and operated by veterans, is about 90 minutes down the road from me and they're a great crew. But their .223 match ammo is mild, loaded short to fit in AR mags, and all too often has a significant extreme spread. If I cherry-pick groups to show, I'd put up the 1.5" 300-yard 5-shot group or the numerous sub-half-inch 100-yard 5-shot or 1-hole 3-shot groups. If I keep that rifle, and handload for it, I am confident that I can tighten the "typical" group size considerably.

As you continue researching, look into resale value for the different brands as well. I know from experience that Tikkas hold value quite well. After reading your last post, it's not clear to me if you're considering purchasing a new Tikka and immediately replacing the barrel, but I don't see any need for that If you do want an aftermarket barrel, why not just have a custom rifle built from the outset?

Good luck!
 
Huge fan of Tikka as a factory action, great value and reliability/smoothness

I'd recommend borrowing a rifle for the course, putting a lot of rounds downrange BEFORE the course if possible. Zero it at least and let her do 100 yard groups for a while

When time isn't a crunch...

Consider getting an Impact action in the best chassis stock you like and running the .223 bolt and barrel. When she wants to extend her range, just spin on a new barrel and replace the bolt with a .308 boltface. Not the cheapest initial outlay, but offers cost savings and flexibility down the line for her.

As buy once/cry once as you can get.
 
New, girlfriend, shooter... I'd get something effective, yet disposable unless it's a rifle/action you want anyway that you might inherit if the new shooter does not keep an interest. In my area, there are very few women pursuing the sport despite all sorts of married/dating shooters (I'd say less than 3% female attendance). Jumping head-long into a $5000 setup might be money mis-spent if the girlfriend's not very enthusiastic. I'm just sayin' is all... :D
 
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mcfred said:
New, girlfriend, shooter... I'd get something effective, yet disposable unless it's a rifle/action you want anyway that you might inherit if the new shooter does not keep an interest. In my area, there are very few women pursuing the sport despite all sorts of married/dating shooters (I'd say less than 3% female attendance). Jumping head-long into a $5000 setup might be money mis-spent if the girlfriend's not very enthusiastic. I'm just sayin' is all... :D
Click to expand...
Yep. I've been PM'ing with the OP and this didn't come up, but you are correct. Several years ago, my wife went to an NRA Women On Target event. She came home and told me she wanted skeet lessons for her birthday. After decades of marriage in which she was a "skeet widow" quite a few weekends every summer and at least half a day almost EVERY weekend, she finally drank the kool-aide! A wise husband does not try to teach his wife to shoot or work a manual transmission, so I got her set up with a Level 4 instructor. Short version is, a few months later we enthusiastically invested in her own skeet gun - a Krieghoff K-20 Gold Super Scroll 3-barrel set. We got a deal on it because it had been a safe queen for quite a few years but, still, it cost more than every other firearm in my safe combined, including my own tournament-grade skeet gun.

She lost enthusiasm a few years later. We sold the K-20 at not too bad a loss and the proceeds went for a Vudoo, a custom 6.5CM, and some major house maintenance.

Still. It was worth it. She was so excited when she got it. She felt awful about spending all that $$ and then walking away from it, but the journey together was worth it. I'm disappointed that she doesn't share my passion for the shooting sports, but relieved at the ammo/reloading components I'm not buying... :rolleyes:
 
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FYI...she’s the one that got me into firearms. Our second date was shopping at Cabelas and a gun range. She loves skeet shooting and can’t wait to just fire some rounds down the range to see who’s the better shot.
 
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Another affordable option savage hog hunter in 223 in Xlr chassis. Set one up for my son shoot .5 to .75 moa with fgmm. With a thunder beast suppressor it is a blast to shoot. Medium barrel handles long shot strings. He can shoot close to me out to 400 against my Gap 6.5 creed
 
I kind of like CZs. Interesting thing about the wood. One of mine got knocked of the bench at the range. It dented, without cutting the grain, the stock. I took it to my smith to have the dent "ironed" out and refinished. Turned out the spray on tinted finish hid much of the wood grain. Had it stained half pre 64 Winchester half French red stain mix and finished in hand rubbed oil. Beautiful. While he was at it he fully bedded it. A tack driver. Even comes with a decent single set trigger. The grooved receiver doesn't need a scope mount, just rings. There are a lot of variations available.

For shooting inside 300 yards, no need for heavy bullets or fast twist barrels. A 40 gr Nosler BT in a .223 at 3600 fps has better ballistics than ANY heavy bullet simply due to the higher velocity. Don't believe it? Run the numbers for drop and windage. The heavy bullets start matching up around 400 yards and out.

There is something to be said for a nice looking walnut stocked rifle.
 
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stilesg57 said:
Agreed, very much agreed. But my Howa in Grendel is a better rifle than my CZ in Grendel. The CZ is just prettier.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but he was asking about a .223. And nothing wrong with pretty if it functions the same.
 
CZ 527 in Grendel and Howa Mini in Grendel are the exact same as the .223 chambered versions of each rifle. And my point is they don’t function the same.

Am I not making it clear that the Howa is better than the CZ? I say that as a huge CZ fan.
 
kornface13 said:
You could save a ton of money and just buy a Howa. Mine shoots sub-MOA with multiple different hand loads
Click to expand...
What Howa do you own? I've been thinking about picking up a Mini Action in 6.5G or their Gameking in 6.5CM (because I can find them online for super cheap). I'll likely just be using it for target shooting. I have a range near me that does F-class and this will be my entry-level build for it.
 
If you’re looking at dipping your toe into f-class, I would check Brownells for a Howa 26” heavy barreled action in 6.5 Creed for F/Open, or get one in .308 or .223 (short action, not the mini) for FT/R, get a chassis for it and go from there. If your dead set on getting a complete rifle, I would check out one of the chassis rifles that they offer ready to go, but make sure that it will function with AICS type mags.

I would generally stay away from the mini action as it limits your cartridge overall length. If your totally dead set on the 6.5g though, you may not have much of a choice but to go with the mini action.
 
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