And here is the most jacked up thing about this, not only is it likely engineered somehow, but now they want to force you into being even more reliant on these shit batteries by forcing you into EV’s!!!
- Thread starter sirhrmechanic
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That's what my old mechanic said, it's the shit lead they use. Virgin lead only for the higher end batteries. There are only so many 100% replacement warranty's out there whether 24/36/48 months and my bet says those are virgin lead batteries. The only real question is how much do you want to spend.
a straight trickle charger will kill a battery, building up sulfate on the plates due to a steady same amp charge (per the battery expert on the phone).
you need a trickle charger that moves the small amps around, to prevent this .. like the desulfator charger.
My wife has a BMW X5. It’s one of the best/ trouble free cars I’ve had. 130k miles. Battery is in the back under the cargo area. I hope I never have to change it.
It may have ratios of zinc. Lead is like sausage. It has lots of variations.
could it be worse than the 1999 - 2005 dodge and Chryslers? Pull the right front wheel to get to the battery compartment.
Lots of Benzes have a trunk-mounted battery and it’s not really that bad. It’s actually better than an engine compartment-mounted battery in an suv. You don’t have to lift the heavy ass battery as far to get it into a trunk
correct me if I'm wrong, but.. Didn't the 1970 Mustang BOSS 429 have a battery mounted in the trunk?
I'm thinking this is a big part of what's going on. I bet battery makers are using less electrode material and keeping the price the same.
As the electrodes thin out, batteries die. Less initial mass in the electrodes: batteries die sooner than they used to.
This is a solid theory. I once bought a used truck, and for some reason, the OE batteries were replaced after only three years with a pair from Walmart. They shit the bed in another three years. I replaced them with a pair of Odyssey batteries that were probably a good 10-15 lbs heavier, and those batteries were still going strong when I sold the truck eight years later.
This isn't as simple as "heavier = better", but it's at least part of the equation.
Yep. This almost means a BOSS 429 is as good as a Mercedescorrect me if I'm wrong, but.. Didn't the 1970 Mustang BOSS 429 have a battery mounted in the trunk?
I do have an Audi A8. It's got a non-standard battery. It's currently 11-12 years old and going strong. I need to sell the car now straight away as I have just jinxed myself.
I used to have a 1967 Nissan Patrol. Dead battery? Use the hand crank. Not easy, but did the trick!
I have had amazing luck with Odyssey Batteries. Nothing better on the market but they are not cheap.
Came to post the same thing. I switch everything I can over to Odysseys. I think I have 5 so far. Probably add 2 more for my backhoe soon. Then see if I can find a good size for my Yamaha side by side.
Odyssey FTW if we’re talking AGM or lead/acid. You used to be able to buy certain models of Odyssey Extreme AGM hybrid (deep cycle/cranking) batteries at Sears, rebadged as Die Hards for about $100 less than the “Odyssey” badged ones. Alas, those days are gone, but I’m still willing to pay the difference for the Odysseys. Awesome batteries for 4x4s running winches, lights, etc.
Wife's rav4 needed a new battery. Over 3 years from one of the chain auto parts stores. Didn't need AGM since it's a 2010. O'Reilly had these prices for a 24f.
Costco has interstate batteries. 710 CCA 24f battery was $120 + $15 core. Their AGM was $183.
Also decided to get a new one for my '12 Taco. Previous lasted 3.5 years. $110
Costco has interstate batteries. 710 CCA 24f battery was $120 + $15 core. Their AGM was $183.
Also decided to get a new one for my '12 Taco. Previous lasted 3.5 years. $110
AGMs are only good for about 3 years. At least that was my experience with wife's Mercedes
Diesel truck, batteries getting weak with colder weather. Took it to battery warehouse got 2 new ones. 2 days later they will barely start the truck. Back to BW, they test them and one is totally bad and the other shows weak. They test 5 batteries from a pallet of batteries they just got in and 3 were bad. They sent the whole pallet back.
It depends. They don't do very well in cold, and they don't do well when not charged correctly.
My buddies truck wouldn't charge his optima. Optima charger on it every weekend and it never went dead, but it would never full charge off the alternator, it would always be down at 60-70%.
In Cali, so not the cold. Mercedes specs AGMs, so that's what I used.
The wife's VW SUV came with an AGM battery...........
Re: ‘walmart or shit brand’ batteries
H8 AGM battery from walmart appears to be a Bosch battery with an ‘Everstart’ sticker instead of ‘Bosch’. Compared side by side with the Mercedes branded Bosch battery that came out - all the same molded in markings in the battery case, and same round ‘Made in Germany’ label.
$200 instead of almost $400.
I remember learning that free market competition was supposed to drive costs down while quality went up... Or at least you would have choices on how much quality you could purchase by price point.
Anyone else notice that everything is just fucking garbage nowadays?
I see it all the time in my occupation... Electrical equipment is just cheap, flimsy garbage... If you can even get it. We installed a 3 phase (480 volt) 400 amp panel a few weeks ago. The workmanship on the dead front and door were atrocious. Sloppy welds on crooked parts. Bolt holes that don't line up.
Prices rise or remain pretty much the same. But quality is a race to the bottom.
Mike
Anyone else notice that everything is just fucking garbage nowadays?
I see it all the time in my occupation... Electrical equipment is just cheap, flimsy garbage... If you can even get it. We installed a 3 phase (480 volt) 400 amp panel a few weeks ago. The workmanship on the dead front and door were atrocious. Sloppy welds on crooked parts. Bolt holes that don't line up.
Prices rise or remain pretty much the same. But quality is a race to the bottom.
Mike
It's a constant battle to make sure you get quality product. I think certain companies can still be counted on, and that is often reflected in price. It's still a trust but verify situation. And as it pertains to this thread, check out odyssey batteries. Spendy as fuck, but not garbage.
That sucks. I got about double that on my last one. And its case got cracked in a wreck and I still ran it for a year before it started giving me weak starts. Not sure if the cracked case contributed to its dying or not. Current one in my jeep is 5+ years old now and still going strong, even with occasional heavy winching.
The wife's car just got a new battery. I hate new cars.
I did not want to mess with it, and don't know if this story is accurate but here it is.
Took the car that does a lot of work on Volvo, save ~$100 over the dealer. To do the battery they hook the car up to life support. Cords running into the car, cords running under the car. Not like battery cables, but normal "car type" wire harness.
What is all that stuff for.
Basically shore power, if you pull the battery and let the car just die, it can become very cranky. Think it has been stolen, think it was in an accident. So this crap is needed to keep everything going. Reminded me of hooking up an old Sun machine decades ago. Kid I was talking to looked at me like ????sun machine????? Then an old guy started laughing......my god I have not thought of those in years.
Chatted with the old guy a while while the "kid" did the work. Ending with they really don't want you working on them yourself anymore do they. He said, they don't want us working on them (independent shop) anymore, let alone you.
Went down the last new car discussion.
Shore power.....for fuck sake, is this thing an atlas rocket or something.
I did not want to mess with it, and don't know if this story is accurate but here it is.
Took the car that does a lot of work on Volvo, save ~$100 over the dealer. To do the battery they hook the car up to life support. Cords running into the car, cords running under the car. Not like battery cables, but normal "car type" wire harness.
What is all that stuff for.
Basically shore power, if you pull the battery and let the car just die, it can become very cranky. Think it has been stolen, think it was in an accident. So this crap is needed to keep everything going. Reminded me of hooking up an old Sun machine decades ago. Kid I was talking to looked at me like ????sun machine????? Then an old guy started laughing......my god I have not thought of those in years.
Chatted with the old guy a while while the "kid" did the work. Ending with they really don't want you working on them yourself anymore do they. He said, they don't want us working on them (independent shop) anymore, let alone you.
Went down the last new car discussion.
Shore power.....for fuck sake, is this thing an atlas rocket or something.
The late model VW's are like that also. You disconnect power, it takes the dealer diagnostic system to unlock the car.
The problem with automotive batteries is they use recycled lead whether it be wet cell or AGM style of batteries, it's just cheaper to do that. The problem for batteries is all of the parasitic loads that are placed on them.
That said Odyssey batteries use virgin lead and are 99.9 percent lead. That enables the battery not to have positive plate growth. If your battery has positive plate growth it is dying. Positive plate growth is cause by heat.
If your car sits a lot put a battery tender on it.
Hot weather, or heat in general, kills batteries. Cold weather is when you find out that your battery is dying and cannot hold capacity anymore.
Also, if you do a lot of short trips that will kill your battery by cycling it to death. Every battery has a designed cycle life.
That said Odyssey batteries use virgin lead and are 99.9 percent lead. That enables the battery not to have positive plate growth. If your battery has positive plate growth it is dying. Positive plate growth is cause by heat.
If your car sits a lot put a battery tender on it.
Hot weather, or heat in general, kills batteries. Cold weather is when you find out that your battery is dying and cannot hold capacity anymore.
Also, if you do a lot of short trips that will kill your battery by cycling it to death. Every battery has a designed cycle life.
Where are they getting virgin lead from?
One of our customers uses tons of lead for sheathing on medium voltage cables... They get it from Doe Run and as I understand it they only recycle lead now... But I might be wrong on that.
Mike
I thought the issue was plate thickness.
Some batteries have thicker plates, so they last longer others user thinner plates which don't last as long
Lead is an element, I don't see how recycling lead vs virgin lead causes a battery to last longer. If the impurities are removed correctly.
I asked myself the same question.
It appears Odyssey considers PURE lead -virgin vs lead alloy (NON virgin)
"The answer begins with flat plates made of 99.99% pure virgin lead - not lead alloy. Pure lead plates can be made thinner, so we can fit more of them in the battery. More ODYSSEY battery plates "
Odyssey | USA Made AGM Batteries with the Best Warranty
Odyssey batteries are top of the line. The best of the best. They make batteries with pure virgin lead, ensuring the best performance and warranty available in the market.
My info is 15 years old and comes from a CEO did this for a living.
Most batteries are made by a handful of battery makers. Most of the lead comes from recycled batteries. The battery market is basically a commodities market where price rules and margins are very tight. Your major costs after materials and electricity are transportation and env regs. The inputs are priced on the world market at the smelter. None of the makers are vertically integrated.
Battery quality is driven by a number of things, mostly the quality of battery plates ( alloys, structure, robustness) and the acid in the batteries. It takes a lot of work to get the lead alloy to the right properties. It's easy to cut corners here.
The greater use of electronics in cars and other vehicles will shorten battery life due to batteries having a finite number of duty cycles. A drawdown of 5% is still a duty cycle. If your modern car sits for a week, it will have a duty cycle,. Look up lead-acid battery and duty cycles. It's not pretty.
It also used to be that the alternators were much larger than today. They re-charged the batteries faster.
The highest quality batteries will come from custom shops selling into a bespoke market, ie military or marine, with strict specs. They often use primary metal. The car market is driven by cheapest batteries - which at the time were made by only two firms. If I had to guess, today they are probably made in china with shit recycled alloys. And have a minimum of duty cycles.
If you want a battery to stake your life on then research duty cycles and battery types, and then, put a trickle charger on it tied to a solar panel or shore power. And make sure your alternator works - or get one just to maintain the batteries. Make sure your voltage meter works. And consider some other approaches.
My farm tractors have a disconnect switch that I installed and hit when I am done for the day.
Most batteries are made by a handful of battery makers. Most of the lead comes from recycled batteries. The battery market is basically a commodities market where price rules and margins are very tight. Your major costs after materials and electricity are transportation and env regs. The inputs are priced on the world market at the smelter. None of the makers are vertically integrated.
Battery quality is driven by a number of things, mostly the quality of battery plates ( alloys, structure, robustness) and the acid in the batteries. It takes a lot of work to get the lead alloy to the right properties. It's easy to cut corners here.
The greater use of electronics in cars and other vehicles will shorten battery life due to batteries having a finite number of duty cycles. A drawdown of 5% is still a duty cycle. If your modern car sits for a week, it will have a duty cycle,. Look up lead-acid battery and duty cycles. It's not pretty.
It also used to be that the alternators were much larger than today. They re-charged the batteries faster.
The highest quality batteries will come from custom shops selling into a bespoke market, ie military or marine, with strict specs. They often use primary metal. The car market is driven by cheapest batteries - which at the time were made by only two firms. If I had to guess, today they are probably made in china with shit recycled alloys. And have a minimum of duty cycles.
If you want a battery to stake your life on then research duty cycles and battery types, and then, put a trickle charger on it tied to a solar panel or shore power. And make sure your alternator works - or get one just to maintain the batteries. Make sure your voltage meter works. And consider some other approaches.
My farm tractors have a disconnect switch that I installed and hit when I am done for the day.
Recycled lead always has impurities. Most comes from recycled batteries that begin as batteries, get crushed, separated from the plastic, then are melted down, with the various elements skimmed off. These plants produce tons of other metals like tin, copper, silver and gold. Enough to ship put truckloads regularly. It's very hard to get pure lead from a smelter. A buyer of the lead pigs can refine it further or alloy it, and many do. But it's very hard or very expensive to get a consistently pure product from the re-manufacturer - unless the lead came from a bespoke source, ie old school sub batteries.
Virgin lead is called primary lead. It comes from a mine. It can be a byproduct of gold or other processes or the primary metal. But even then it can have impurities. But given that it's from a mine it is a very well known alloy and many are very very pure. But then it just takes a few hundredths of something bad and it work work for batteries.
A lot of the recycled lead comes from industrial batteries. Industrial batteries should always use virgin lead. Virgin lead is newly mined lead. Industrial lead Acid batteries have a 20 year float service life at 77 degrees.
Car battery manufactures use recycled lead because it's cheap and the battery only needs to last 3 to 4 years. Car battery manufacturers try and get contracts with auto manufacturers as most people will just replace the battery with the same battery that's already in the car. That means Car battery manufacturers need to be price competitive to get those contracts and that means using cheaper materials.
Car battery manufactures use recycled lead because it's cheap and the battery only needs to last 3 to 4 years. Car battery manufacturers try and get contracts with auto manufacturers as most people will just replace the battery with the same battery that's already in the car. That means Car battery manufacturers need to be price competitive to get those contracts and that means using cheaper materials.
Getting virgin lead in the USA still happens. It's just rare and significantly more expensive. I'm in the nuclear industry and our safety related batteries are built with virgin lead. Many utilities require virgin lead batteries for protection on high enterprise risk protection items also. We get all GNB batteries, I thought the lead comes out of Oklahoma or Missouri. Id have to look into it. The Odyssey batteries in my truck have been going for 6 years and still start great.
FWIW, I did a fair bit of research into batteries earlier this year, as I was upgrading 2 of them for our boat. I wanted the most power, for the longest duration. Having the same footprint though being a bit taller wasn't an issue. (The boat is only so big....)
I found, for what we had access to, US Battery fit the bill. I'm not an employee of them, or a paid shill. Where other batteries of this shape (Type 31) weighed anywhere from 35 to 48 lbs (on average) these ones weigh 90 lbs each. Yes, they are about 1 1/2-2" taller, but they're essentially twice the weight.
And they're made in the US of A. I'd rather support that, than chinesium.
I found, for what we had access to, US Battery fit the bill. I'm not an employee of them, or a paid shill. Where other batteries of this shape (Type 31) weighed anywhere from 35 to 48 lbs (on average) these ones weigh 90 lbs each. Yes, they are about 1 1/2-2" taller, but they're essentially twice the weight.
And they're made in the US of A. I'd rather support that, than chinesium.
You've just confirmed another famous firearms theory. 45s are heavier than 9ms and therefore better. Although heavier weight doesn't instantly equate to being better, it's part of the equation.
See how I applied a car question to the eternal gun conundrum?
Odyssey batteries also have military contracts with the US Army and the Marine Corps. You can find these batteries in M1s and M2s for the Army.
thank you for confirming my suspicionYou've just confirmed another famous firearms theory. 45s are heavier than 9ms and therefore better. Although heavier weight doesn't instantly equate to being better, it's part of the equation.
See how I applied a car question to the eternal gun conundrum?
Dimensions
CustomaryMetric
| Length | Height | Width | Weight | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| G40 Gen4 MOS | 9.49 in | 5.47 in | 1.34 in | 35.45 oz |
| Colt 1911 A1 | 8.7 in | 5.5 in | 1.4 in | 32 oz |
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