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Gunsmithing Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

G

GMAC7949

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 19, 2009
107
0
61
Texas
A buddy and I are in a debate, He never cleans his guns even after hundreds of rounds, he says it will affect accuracy, I say it will only affect the first round!
He dosnt think it will affect barrel life by cleaning, I say it will extend barrel life and keep accuracy longer.

I was told powder is carosive and cause damage if not cleaned after use?
What do our Hide members say???
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

Use the search function. Lots of discussion on this issue and many different opinions .
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

It has been discussed but many posts have been pruned in the meantime.

The one example we like to cite is regarding two different Former Marines.

Marine number one, goes out buys an M40 clone, specs it out top to bottom and really digs his new rifle. He cleans it religiously, about every 4o rounds or so. Front to back, spic and span. He gets about 4000 rounds of 308 through the gun and suddenly the barrel is shot out. (true story by the way) Gone, new barrel time.

The second former Marine barely touches the bore. Doesn't clean it for shit, two separate rifles in fact are what some in the gun community would call neglected. Very un-Marine like behavior, cleaning the barrel only when absolutely necessary in some cases, as many as 1000 rounds go down the tube before cleaning. His one rifle is still shooting 1/2" to 3/4" minute after 10,000+ rounds, the other rifle just went in for rebarreling, with in excess of 15,000+ rounds down the tube. So, using these example, where is the harm in not cleaning it.


In fact it has been said more good rifles have been ruined by over cleaning than over shooting.

Now, if you are a light shooter, cleaning is fine providing you're not trying to scrub the metal out. (Which many mistake for carbon) But if you're a frequent shooter, not touching the bore for 500 rounds is fine too.

I advocate under-cleaning, I keep the action in working order, clean out the chamber but just barely touch the bore. Maybe a bore snake every 200, with a real cleaning every 600 to 800... that is my routine. But you're welcome to do what ever makes you happy.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In fact it has been said more good rifles have been ruined by over cleaning than over shooting.</div></div>

The late Gale McMillan said that about barrels, and he might have known something about the subject.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

I clean every 400, at the same time I send a few Tubbs TMS bullets through it too. Don't know if it helps or not, but what the hell....

I can't see my groups get any better or worse before or after cleaning.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

I clean after every session, mainly because my rifles experience layovers exceeding a couple of weeks, and I have some (possibly excessive) concern about pitting the bores. I do all my non-match shooting with .22LR, hence the centerfire match gun layovers.

I could skip the cleaning, and achieve much the same pitting prevention by simply liberally oiling the bore before leaving for home.

But being a graduate of PI, I have that permanent tinge of guilt when I leave that crud in the bore. It nags at me. I guess that can all be defined as a personal quirk.

Greg
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

I am really starting to love the way LOWLIGHT thinks. I could not agree more with his methods of cleaning... Or should I say un-cleaning.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

I only clean when I notice accuracy going south. Typically it's once a hunting season. I will ritually clean all my rifles and put them all away. I have always found that over cleaning is not only a waste of time, but a huge waste of barrel life.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

I clean mine all the time, and by "clean" i mean scrape all the mudd off and dig dirt out of the action, wipe down the stock and make it presentable. then when I do swab the bbl, i use patches and a jig, hoppes #9, and thats about it, but like others thats only when accuracy drops off...I've had my rifle since Nov. and cleaned it twice. Once when it was new, and again here last week. I wont use a bore brush, unless I know I'm copper fouled, and need the scrubbing power, but wouldnt try to get every bit out. When I shot smalbore, i cleaned my rifle once in in 3 years..accuracy dropped off one day, so i ran a few patches w/ solvent through and i was back in business...I havent a clue how many thousands of rounds was through that bbl.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

IMHO, what caliber you are shooting, the type of barrel, your load, and the type of shooting you are doing dictates the amount of cleaning that's necessary.

Smallbore: clean when you need to.

Highpower rifle: Depends on caliber and type of loads. I've noticed some types of powder burn cleaner than others (e.g. VV N140). Overbore cartrides seem to benefit from a cleaner bore for me, but that's not an absolute. My BR and 308 can go awhile without cleaning, but habit dictates cleaning after every session. My 243 and 260 seem to like clean bores.

IPSC: I clean once a month, no matter what. This is ususally after atleast a 1000 rounds.

Bullseye: Clean every time I shoot.

Benchrest: Clean every 10 shots

Trap and Skeet: Clean once a month.

I also would like to note that environmental factors like humidity, rain, snow and ice require special treatment.

Your mileage may vary. Good shooting!
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

A dirty barrel is a happy barrel. Only keep it away from moisture as carbon absorbs it more rapidly in a fouled bore and can lead to rust/pitting.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

I bought my gun to shoot it, Not to clean it. Thats what I have a house for.

Just shoot it.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

hahaha. I got on here to find out how I should clean my DPMS 308LR. My friend and I had the same debate. Sooo..now I am just confused even more. I DO realize consistency is the key. I would rather be consistent in leaving the barrel alone after I have it dialed it. He would rather clean it after every shot or two to keep it consistent.
Let me ask this question though. IF OR WHEN I do occasionally HAVE TO clean it...perhaps to get any dirt or debris out of the barrel..what process is the best to go by? Should I even try to sight it in again after cleaning it or just shoot it until its back on track? I cleaned by barrel the other day and it was six inches to the right after that at 500 yards!!! However, I just used break free and left it in the barrel.

I like lowlight's way of thinking, but I even realize that sometimes you need to get actual debris out of the barrel. What process of cleaning and post shooting/sighting in do you recommend? Should I even attempt to sight it in again after cleaning or just wait until it sets back to where it goes? Will it go back to where it shot previously? Much needed help.


I do have a home made recipe some marine recon sniper buddies gave me if yall are interested. Most of the ingredients can be found in any wal mart. Supposedly its better than anything you can buy. I can find it somewhere if yall are interested.

The process they said to use when i do actually clean it is..Use the home made solvent...then brake cleaner to strip away any and all residues..and last put on a light oil coating. The barrel is what I am so confused about. What do you think low light?
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The one example we like to cite is regarding two different Former Marines.

Marine number one, goes out buys an M40 clone, specs it out top to bottom and really digs his new rifle. He cleans it religiously, about every 4o rounds or so. Front to back, spic and span. He gets about 4000 rounds of 308 through the gun and suddenly the barrel is shot out. (true story by the way) Gone, new barrel time.

The second former Marine barely touches the bore. Doesn't clean it for shit, two separate rifles in fact are what some in the gun community would call neglected. Very un-Marine like behavior, cleaning the barrel only when absolutely necessary in some cases, as many as 1000 rounds go down the tube before cleaning. His one rifle is still shooting 1/2" to 3/4" minute after 10,000+ rounds, the other rifle just went in for rebarreling, with in excess of 15,000+ rounds down the tube. So, using these example, where is the harm in not cleaning it.
</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">I was <span style="font-style: italic">That Guy</span>LL mentioned. Gunny Gonzales always said, "Clean every 40 rounds devil pup or I'll have your ass" Yeah, 4k rounds down the tube when I should have gotten 10K rounds out of it. Now I clean every 400-500 rounds and I am a happy camper.... Next time I'll listen to Jacob and Frank.... Unless they start spouting off about bigfoot and aliens.</span>
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Texas Republic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I do have a home made recipe some marine recon sniper buddies gave me if yall are interested. Most of the ingredients can be found in any wal mart. Supposedly its better than anything you can buy. I can find it somewhere if yall are interested.

The process they said to use when i do actually clean it is..Use the home made solvent...then brake cleaner to strip away any and all residues..and last put on a light oil coating. The barrel is what I am so confused about. What do you think low light? </div></div>

It always amazes me when folks claim that they have the "SECRET" formula that is better than any commercial product. If it's so damn good then why aren't they selling it?

I clean about like LL & CB because I don't think it needs it any more often and because I freaking hate to clean firearms. It's right up there with painting and caulking for me. When I do clean it's at the range and then, when finished, I run an alcohol patch and a dry patch through and fire a fouler round and I'm done.

The only firearm I have that has to be cleaned regularly, like every 20 to 30 rounds, is my 17 HMR. Shoots great then goes to shit and needs cleaning; a boresnake pass to knock out the crud.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

. My thought is along the same as Franks but with an explained twist.

I clean my rifle after every time I'm "done" shooting it. If the gun is running fine then there is no need to clean it. If I'm on a hunt I will not clean it unless I have to for some unforeseen event. If so I shoot 2 rounds through it to foul the barrel again after cleaning. This being said when I store my rifle I don't know how long it will be before I touch it again. If left unattended and moisture is present carbon will act as a catalyst for rust. Water is a byproduct of combustion so assume it's there. If left alone and the recipe is right you will get some pitting. I've seen it ruin a great rifle. So the answer for me is simple. Not knowing when I will fire the rifle again I clean every time I put it away. If I know I'm going to be shooting it again I don't see the need as long as the rifle doesn't require it. Rifles are like women. You never know what you are going to get until you get behind it a few times. Once you know what she wants treat her accordingly and she'll smile back every time you pick her up.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJoplin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. Rifles are like women. You never know what you are going to get until you get behind it a few times.
</div></div>


Good one!
laugh.gif
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

My old pistol team coach in college told me there was seldom a reason to clean match pistols, using modern ammo and powder. He didn't clean his pistols for years, consequently, we didn't clean ours either. We went to nationals every year. I too drank the coolaid when I was in the Marine Corps, but have gone back to the logic that it is not really necessary unless the fouling would affect mechanical operation or accuracy (build up of copper and such). I do make an exception if I am using foreign surplus ammo.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Texas Republic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I do have a home made recipe some marine recon sniper buddies gave me if yall are interested. Most of the ingredients can be found in any wal mart. Supposedly its better than anything you can buy. I can find it somewhere if yall are interested.
</div></div>

I wonder if this is the same recipe they showed us when I was a Delta Seal Recon Eagle Scout 1st Class? It goes like this...

1/2 camel testicle
4 oz fresh Taliban blood (stay away from the European import stuff, it'll corrode you bore)
A handful of 3 day old Tabbouleh
2 drops of Sweets 7.62
splash of Guinness (room temp)
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

[/quote]

It always amazes me when folks claim that they have the "SECRET" formula that is better than any commercial product. If it's so damn good then why aren't they selling it?

[/quote]

Well first off, I am pretty certain I never said it was some "SECRET" forumla. Besides, it wouldnt make it much of a secret if I was on here offering it now would it. Its always nice to see how some people act when you are just trying to offer them something helpful. The ex-military snipers I know live an hour from huntsville..you can always ask them about it yourself if you want.
And the reason the stuff is probably better than most things you can buy is because of EPA regulations and limitations on what you can put in a spray can these days. If you dont want it fine..but dont act like an idiot on a public board. Especially if youre from Texas.

It seems to work great on my rifles.. If its good enough for them..its good enough for me.

Recipe is as follows:

Solvent/Scrubber:
1 quart Automatic transmission fluid
1 quart Acetone
1 quart kerosene
1 quart mineral spirits

Gun Cleaner:
Brake Cleaner Spray Can (Use this to remove solvent and strip away all other elements)

Oil Mix:
Apply a VERY light coat to barrel and bolt carrier to finish
2/3 Diesel engine oil
1/3 Automatic transmission Fluid
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

That recipe has been mentioned many times here in the past so your right, its not a secret and IIRC, a lot of people like it.
smile.gif


okie
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

Like Jared; I don't know when I will get the chance to shoot again so I clean when I am finished, but then I clean all of my tools when I am finished using them. During, hunting season I dry my rifle at the end of the day and run a loose dry patch through the barrel, but no solutions or brushes. When I am load testing or practicing I run a couple of patches soaked with BBS down the barrel and a couple of dry patches about every 40 rounds. It's fully cleaned at the end of the day and every couple hundred rounds I use a patch with JB.

Using this cleaning regimen I have gotten 6-7000 rounds out of barrels in the .270,.280 and .308 calibers. I will usually have to set the barrel back and re-chamber about every 2,500 rounds because the throat goes but the barrels are fine. Conversely, my 22-250 and 243 Ackleys don't get more than 2,000 rounds, and I had a 1:14 twist 243 Ackley that didn't make 1,000 rounds.

For those of you that don't clean your barrels, do you clean your locking lug recesses and replace the grease around your cam?

For those of you that use moly coated bullets, look for that little black circle at the mouth of your chamber. When you see it start scrubbing. That is the nastiest stuff you can ever have in a barrel and can cause unbeliveable pressure spikes.

One of the best things you can do for your barrels is to use a good bore guide, I use Lucas. This will protect your, chamber, throat, lands and grooves during cleaning and you will be amazed at how you maintain accuracy for a longer period of time.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

i find my .308 starts to loose accuracy at around 300-350 rounds, and i will give it a light cleaning after i shoot, and it makes it last longer between big cleanings. so i clean heavilly when it starts shooting bad.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In fact it has been said more good rifles have been ruined by over cleaning than over shooting.

Now, if you are a light shooter, cleaning is fine providing you're not trying to scrub the metal out. (Which many mistake for carbon) But if you're a frequent shooter, not touching the bore for 500 rounds is fine too.

I advocate under-cleaning, I keep the action in working order, clean out the chamber but just barely touch the bore. Maybe a bore snake every 200, with a real cleaning every 600 to 800... that is my routine. But you're welcome to do what ever makes you happy. </div></div>

Lowlight, do you break in your barrels, though? I'm thinking that may be why my rifles go crazy after not being cleaned for a while. Maybe factory barrels play a part, as well.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

Not anymore I don't... I just shoot them the first day and clean it at the end, then I just do my regular thing after that.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

Wipe-Out every 500 rounds or so has been my friend.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not anymore I don't... I just shoot them the first day and clean it at the end, then I just do my regular thing after that. </div></div>

LL, I am still on the break in koolaid band wagon.... The OCD in me makes a break in period turn into a 2-3 week ordeal unless I can commit a several hours to it at the range. Please school me on the <span style="font-style: italic">why not</span>.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

I have nothing against anyone running hundreds of rounds before cleaning. But i think its a must to clean the copper out of the barrel for the first few rounds through the barrel. The burrs left in the throat of the chamber will cause excessive fouling for the first few rounds until they are gone. When a few shots doesnt leave much copper in it at all shoot away!
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy_bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not anymore I don't... I just shoot them the first day and clean it at the end, then I just do my regular thing after that. </div></div>

LL, I am still on the break in koolaid band wagon.... The OCD in me makes a break in period turn into a 2-3 week ordeal unless I can commit a several hours to it at the range. Please school me on the <span style="font-style: italic">why not</span>.</div></div>

CB,

The first test in my "why not" line of thinking happened when I got two identical TRG-22 rifles. One I broke in, one I did not and I found in the end, there was absolutely no difference between the two, where honestly I probably couldn't tell them apart.

Secondly, you see the number of rifles I have passing through RO, I stopped breaking them and found, again, to see no difference in my need to clean them, or my accuracy. Now maybe because I am shooting more rounds in a single day that I negate the need and because I clean them okay, the first day I am sort of breaking them in, but honestly, beyond the first day, my usual routine is about 6 strokes with a brush, and maybe that many patches. I have yet to find any of them needing more cleaning than that. In between the heavy days, I just pull a bore snake through them, and move on down the road.

The Gladius was never broke in, you all have seen that does, my AR-10s weren't broken in, and they perform flawlessly. I just don't see the benefit too it.

As far as the copper, it wants to be there, if it wears some marks down, it will loosen up and come out when it is ready, but trying to predict what might be needed by simply shooting a round, cleaning, shooting 2 rounds, cleaning, shooting 3 rounds cleaning, shooting 5 rounds and cleaning, what a colossal waste of time and does nothing for me downrange. Or later when I clean it again... I seen absolutely no difference across no less than 8 rifles I can count, and that doesn't count the ones Jacob is shooting.

I don't see it, and I am willing to go against anyone on it, next week when I get to RO, I am sending out the Harbinger for a new barrel, it has more than 10k rounds through it and its time to get a new one. I am willing to do nothing to it beyond my normal routine and I guarantee no amount of extra steps will make it better -- totally a Shooting Urban Legend in my opinion.

if it makes you feel good, clean until you're hands hurt, but I don't see it making a difference.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

That is enough proof for me and it makes absolute sense. It is funny how many weird looks and comments I get when I promote the 400-500 rounds cleaning. People just have a hard time swallowing it. Makes me wonder who in the hell came up with the break in and excessive cleaning idea.... More than likely it was from the same lineage as the <span style="font-style: italic">less lube on the AR15 system is better</span> crowd.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

Well the reason it came into being so strongly was the military and the fact it was used to fill down time so a bunch of 20 year old Adrenalin Junkies weren't sitting around idle.

Everyday you hear someone, "well I clean like this because in the Army they said ________ ". you can fill in the blank.

it wasn't out of necessity or because of a certain logic, it was because you have to do something to fill up the day. Its a 24/7 existence and there just isn't enough to do so we endlessly clean weapons. They don't need it, there is no rational beyond creating busy time. In most cases the rifles could probably be cleaned and turned in within 15 minutes, instead it becomes a 4 hour affair.

So, when you step back, deprogram and look at it, I see no difference in cleaning it like a madman or not cleaning it beyond 6 strokes and a few patches, except how much of time is wasted with one over the other. Not to mention the potential for damage due to improper cleaning -- 75% of the people out there scrubbing a rifle bore don't realize that black that won't come out is the bore, and that blue is from their brush... copper is a metal, so is stainless steel, if you think your solvent knows the difference think again.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have nothing against anyone running hundreds of rounds before cleaning. But i think its a must to clean the copper out of the barrel for the first few rounds through the barrel. The burrs left in the throat of the chamber will cause excessive fouling for the first few rounds until they are gone. When a few shots doesnt leave much copper in it at all shoot away! </div></div>

That's what's served me well with factory bbl's and what I tell people to do.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Texas Republic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Recipe is as follows:

Solvent/Scrubber:
1 quart Automatic transmission fluid
1 quart Acetone
1 quart kerosene
1 quart mineral spirits
</div></div>

That's just the recipe for Ed's Red and has been around since Christ was a corporal. And yes it works but no better than a lot of commercial stuff. Some folks mix lanolin with it for a lube.

Don't get your panties in a wad. The criticism wasn't aimed at you but at those who claim that some home brew is better than anything. It's a valid criticism.

I ain't in that "Huntsville". I'm in AL and originally from TN where all those saviours of TX came from
smile.gif
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

Cleaning is usually bottom of list.
Streaks of blue are no longer showing up.
Just breaking in, one shot at a time.

Bore "looks dirty"
In,out brush.
Dry patch out.
Go from there.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

It's amazing how some only clean after 500 rounds and get good results. In the L.E. Sniper school I attended they told us to rod out the rifle every 15 rounds no matter what, with one pass of a bronze brush forward and backward for each bullet fired using shooters choice. That is a bit excessive I believe. They also told us to never use a copper cleaner or anything amonia based. They said it eats the bore especially Sweet's 7.62. Needless to say my cleaning regiment is much different. I use KG12 and shooters choice as well as Hoppe's as needed.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tangodown911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In the L.E. Sniper school I attended they told us to rod out the rifle every 15 rounds no matter what, with one pass of a bronze brush forward and backward for each bullet fired using shooters choice. </div></div>

No one I know would advocates pushing a brush through the bore and then pulling it back through. Much of the stuff you pushed is brought right back to the barrel and chamber. I never, ever push and pull a brush through a chamber. A good tight fitting bore guide might mitigate the effect to some extent but a tight, or even snug, brush would probably pop the guide out, not sure, never tried and don't intend to either.

Laying down a hard and fast rule like that might work for a school setting, but it's not real world. Do what works for you in the real world.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

I clean after everytime I shoot it. Never had any problems. Or sometimes ill clean it at the range good then shoot maybe 3-5rds thru it and pack it up a little dirty. My uncle was a USMC Sniper in Vietnam and he said thats what half of them guys used to do but that was 30yrs ago. I actually was watching the Sniper Competition they show once a year on the Military channel and a couple of the guys they interviewed said they do the same thing to it with the clean and shoot a couple rounds thru it and pack it up method.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smith934</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tangodown911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In the L.E. Sniper school I attended they told us to rod out the rifle every 15 rounds no matter what, with one pass of a bronze brush forward and backward for each bullet fired using shooters choice. </div></div>

No one I know would advocates pushing a brush through the bore and then pulling it back through. Much of the stuff you pushed is brought right back to the barrel and chamber. I never, ever push and pull a brush through a chamber. A good tight fitting bore guide might mitigate the effect to some extent but a tight, or even snug, brush would probably pop the guide out, not sure, never tried and don't intend to either.

Laying down a hard and fast rule like that might work for a school setting, but it's not real world. Do what works for you in the real world. </div></div>

Here's what works for me.
Quick look through bore.
If it's grey and dusty, but can still see the rifling.
Check chamber and action.
Dry bore/chamber brush, if needed.
Put bore guide in.
First stroke from breech to muzzle.
What did you see?
Does the brush look different?
Why?
What next?
If shit went out on the push, you'll get more on the pull!
Pulling brush back will not hurt the bore guide.
All dirt will probably between the Bore guide and the lands.
Hit with air hose.
Make sure bore guide is clean.
Two dry patches.
One oiled and used front and back.
Two more dry.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smith934</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tangodown911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In the L.E. Sniper school I attended they told us to rod out the rifle every 15 rounds no matter what, with one pass of a bronze brush forward and backward for each bullet fired using shooters choice. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">No one I know would advocates pushing a brush through the bore and then pulling it back through.</span> Much of the stuff you pushed is brought right back to the barrel and chamber. I never, ever push and pull a brush through a chamber. A good tight fitting bore guide might mitigate the effect to some extent but a tight, or even snug, brush would probably pop the guide out, not sure, <span style="font-weight: bold">never tried</span> and don't intend to either.

Laying down a hard and fast rule like that might work for a school setting, but it's not real world. Do what works for you in the real world.</div></div>

I push and pull everytime I clean the barrel, I just clean the chamber last with a chamber brush, never had an issue and "I" actually do it...

When you hold a Dewey rod it spins, in either direction, so it doesn't matter in my opinion which way I go, and to date, no ill effects. Not to mention my bore guides have a little bar that holds it in place.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

Thank's Frank.
It's easier to do and teach, than write and explain.
Cleaning the chamber, should be a given.
Most of my dirt is dust or dry grasses.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

Personaly i never ever use a brush in my bore. I do take one thats a caliber or two small and use a patch with the issoi or jb on it to get the carbon out after the blue starts to dissapear using the copper solvent. The wipeout patchout works great and i have found a new amazing copper cutter called KG 12 Big Bore Cleaner. Its safe to let sit in the bore as well for a while as well as the wipeout. I have let that stuff sit for days and has never hurt any bore. Been using it for quite a while now.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

The big NO NO is reversing the brush while still in the bore. Going completely out the muzzle and then reversing should'nt cause any problem, never has me. Just think about the "dirty brush" deal. Even if a piece of matter could (which I highly doubt) actually hang between a bristle (which is round and smooth) and the bore, its not harder than steel unless your stupid enough to shoot steel jacketed bullets. As with any disciplin, there are old rules and practices that dont apply in the present.

okie
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The big NO NO is reversing the brush while still in the bore.
</div></div>

Why is this a NO-NO????? (other than probably ruining the brush)
confused.gif


I have never cleaned my bore with anything more than a boresnake, and not often at that...
(I will concede that after chambering a blank and blowing out with air, I push a nylon brush then patch through for cleanliness..... before torquing to the receiver...)
I have yet to see a loss in accuracy.....
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chpprguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The big NO NO is reversing the brush while still in the bore.
</div></div>

Why is this a NO-NO????? (other than probably ruining the brush)
confused.gif

...
</div></div>
It's a no-no because it scratches the barrel when you reverse directions without pushing it through. This is not an issue with synthetic brushes.

If you were to be scientific about things, you could measure your rifles accuracy during an extended period of shooting and take note of when accuracy deteriorates noticeably. Clean and see if accuracy returns. Now you have your answer about how frequently to clean. Part of the answer relates to the level of accuracy you are trying to attain. Hence, the difference between benchrest shooters and virtually everyone else.
 
Re: Clean or not to Clean that is the question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's a no-no because it scratches the barrel when you reverse directions without pushing it through. This is not an issue with synthetic brushes.
</div></div>

The phosphour bronze bristles will mar the chromoly? (or SS depending on the barrel type)
This is not meant to be argumentative, I just find some irony in the fact that people will "swage" a copper bullet down a barrel at 3000 fps, but hesitate to change direction of a brush mid bore......
and I will never be a benchrest shooter (or even a good shooter for that matter...
laugh.gif
)
 
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