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Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

CleanMoostang

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 30, 2010
535
1
Eastern KY
I have been using 7.62x54 corrosive ammo from Russia in my PSL. I get extremely good grouping out of it even though it is surplus, but I dont want it to ruin my rifle.

Everytime I go to the range, no matter what I am using, I clean as soon as I get home. But I want to make sure I am doing it correctly while using corrosive ammunition.

Usually I clean everything off with some CLP or Rem-Oil then apply PowderBlaster to all mechanic parts, and lube them again. In the barrel I run through a couple swabs of Hoppes9 and then lube it again. I try to get out all brass flakes or what I see with a cleaning tooth brush.

Care to help guys?
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

Also to add:

I have heard of people pouring in HOT water in hopes of running off the corrosive residue or using ammonia.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

You must use hot soapy water to stop corrosion, then oil.
RTH
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

Yup...both HOT (I MEAN HOOOOTTTT) soapy water works well as does windex. There are some specific "solvents"/"cleaners" meant to deal with scrubbing the salts/crap out of the rifle after shooting corrosive ammo, but the really hot, soapy water has always work well for me.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

Thank you guys for the quick feedback, greatly appreciated.

I have been tempted to use the water/soap method but I fear it will cause rust to start faster than what the corrosive ammo would cause.

After running over it with the water/soap, do I need to hit it with a can of air to get out any missed drops and quickly apply lube?
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

I usually wipe the gun down with a clean rag, run plenty of patches down the bore until its dry, dry out the action, etc. Then, if necessary, you can clean the barrel with solvents, etc. to remove any carbon build-up/copper fouling, etc. Make sure you put a good coat of oil (whatever your particular brand of poison might be), including running an oiled patch down the tube, before stowing it away.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

Lots and lots of hot soapy water. The old African hunters used to shoot highly corrosive loads, and their recipe was hot soapy water.

Solvents will clean out powder residue and copper or lead fouling, but they will do little to nothing to remove the salts and other corrosive compounds. They need to be dissolved and washed out with water.

After a good "wash", use a lot of WD40 - not a great rust preventer, but what WD40 does is it displaces the water with the oil. Then wipe off the WD 40 and use your regular firearm oil or compound.

And the sooner this is done after shooting, the better.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

Soapy water or Balistol (VERY good stuff). Water with a dab of dawn dish detergent is fine warm or cold and dissolves the salt.

http://www.ballistol.com/


If your shooting a PSL be sure to use a shotgun style swap inside the corrugated gas tube and clean the gas block well.These are the two places that get missed most often (I know this). Czech silver tip shoots good but man is that stuff nasty if you don't clean it.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

Using boiling water will cause it to dry off immediately so it wont rust from the water.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

I always though boiling water was over kill and a good chance to burn something. As hot or warm as it comes out of the faucet followed by your favorite solvent or compressed air to displace any water works for me.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

Training with AKM and SVD we haven't used water, hot or cold. Must add that weapon longevity was not a primary concern - but its near-term functionality was. We were given some chemical to wet the patches with.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

I just use hoppes or clp. I'm at around 1200 rounds through mine over the past year and a half and no barrel or gas tube corrosion. The gas port looks like it has a bit but then it's looked that way since the day I got it. Just field strip it and clean it well after every range trip and you won't have a problem.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

First of all, you're using ComBloc ammo in a ComBloc firearm. Odds are good they employ chrome in the bore/chamber and are relatively impervious to corrosive priming. My advice would be to do some research into Russian Firearm manufacturer sites (like Izmash, or Izhevsk; see Valery Shilen), and see what cleaning regimen they recommend.

As a frontloader shooter, I am very familiar with cleaning with hot water. I simply use hot tap water, Dawn, and a boremop; placing the priming nipple end of the barrel underwater in a plastic gallon bucket and slowly running the rod/mop up and down inside the bore like a piston. If Dawn won't get it, it's earned the right to stay. Refresh the water/Dawn frequently, and when it doesn't get dirty anymore, the bore's done. Rinse/dry it as best you can. When done, I go over everything with a hair dryer until it's all quite warm to the touch. Any moisture left should evaporate on its own in ten-twenty more minutes on its own, so go fix yourself a sandwich. Since I shoot mostly patched ball, copper cleaning is not usually an issue. If it were, I would do the previous, followed by a conventional cleaning.

I recently pulled my muzzle loader out of several years' storage, expecting the worst. Instead, I opened the hard case to a view of a pristine, immaculate sidelock percussion rifle. Now I know I don't have any Good Gremlins around so I gave it all some thought.

The last muzzle loader cleaning step I always perform is to apply a thorough layer of Bore Butter to everything inside and out.

Based on this episode, I would definitely give it a A+ as a rifle storage preservative coating, wood and all.

Greg

PS Excerpt from the Izmash service and training manual of the Dragunov rifle:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 2.7. Cleaning and lubrication
2.7.1. The rifle should be cleaned in the following cases:
a. when preparing the rifle for firing;
b. after firing with live and blank ammunition, immediately after finishing the fire;
c. after guard duty or field exercises without firing, just on return to the barracks;
d. in combat situation and prolonged tactical exercises, daily during lulls of the fight and during the intervals in the exercises;
e. if the sniper rifle is not in use, at least once a week.
2.7.2. Lubricate the sniper rifle after cleaning. Apply lubricant only to the well-cleaned and dry surfaces of the metal immediately after cleaning to avoid the adverse effect of moisture on the metal.
2.7.3. For cleaning and lubricating the rifle following materials are used:

liquid rifle oil for cleaning the rifle and lubricating its parts and mechanism, when the ambient temperature is within +50 grad. C to -50 grad. C;
rifle oil for lubricating the barrel bore, the rifle parts and mechanisms after their cleaning, the said oil is used when the ambient temperature exceeds +5 grad C;
RCHS solution for scouring out the barrel bore and other parts affected by the powder gases.

Note - The RCHS solution is prepared in a subunit. The composition of the solution is as follows:
drinking water - 1 L;
ammonium carbonate - 200 g;
potassium bichromate - 3-5 g.

The RCHS solution is prepared in the amount required for scouring the weapon in the course of 24 hours. Small amount of the RCHS solution may be stored in tightly plugged glass vessels, away from heaters (in a dark place) for not more than 7 days.
It is prohibited to fill the oilers with the &#1056;&#1063;&#1057; solution.
waste or special paper KB-22 for wiping, scouring and lubricating the sniper rifle;
tow free from boon only for scouring the barrel bore out.

2.7.4. To clean the sniper rifle, proceed as follows:
a. Prepare materials for cleaning and lubrication;
b. Disassemble the sniper rifle;
c. Prepare accessories for use during cleaning;
d. Scour out the barrel bore.
To scour out the barrel bore with liquid rifle oil put the tow on the scourer end and place the tow fibres along the scourer rod; soak the tow in liquid rifle oil. Insert the cleaning rod with the scourer and the tow into the barrel bore and secure the container cover on the flash eliminator. Holding the rifle with one hand smoothly move the scourer with the tow forward along the entire length of the barrel bore several times. Remove the cleaning rod, change the tow, soak it in liquid rifle oil and, adhering to the above procedure, scour the bore several times. Then thoroughly wipe the barrel bore with the clean dry tow, then with a clean waste cloth. To clean the barrel bore with the &#1056;&#1063;&#1057; solution, use the brush soaked in the solution; then wipe the barrel bore with tow. Proceed with cleaning the bore with the RCHS solution to completely remove the fouling. Having cleaned the rifled portion of the bore, clean the cartridge chamber.
e. Clean the gas chamber and the gas tube with the help of the cleaning rod or a wooden stick, wrapped with waste cloth around, washed with liquid rifle oil or the &#1056;&#1063;&#1057; solution; wipe the gas chamber and the gas tube dry after they have been cleaned; wipe the barrel bore with waste cloth once more and inspect it to see that no tow, waste cloth, rags or foreign matter are left therein;
f. Clean the receiver, the bolt and the gas piston with waste cloth soaked in liquid rifle oil or the &#1056;&#1063;&#1057; solution, then wipe them dry;
g. Wipe dry the rest metal parts with waste cloth;
h. Wipe the wooden parts with dry waste cloth.
2.7.5. Lubricate the sniper rifle as follows:
a. Lubricate the barrel bore with the help of the scourer and the waste cloth, soaked in lubricant; lubricate the cartridge chamber;
b. Lubricate all the remaining metal parts and mechanisms with oiled waste cloth;
c. Apply a thin layer of lubricant, as excessive lubrication tends to increase soiling of the rifle parts and may result in stoppages during firing;
d. Do not lubricate wooden parts.
2.7.6. Assemble the rifle and check the functioning of its parts and mechanisms.
2.7.7. Wipe the external surfaces of the optical sight with clean waste cloth. Remove the cap of the reticle illuminating set and wipe the cell, the body and the cap. Should the surfaces of the objective and eyepiece lenses be soiled, wipe them with cloth. Never wipe the lenses and glasses with a waste cloth, already used for wiping other parts of the sight. Do not lubricate them or touch with fingers. It is prohibited to strip the sight.


2.8. Storage and transportation of rifle
2.8.1. The rifle should be always kept unloaded, the optical sight and the magazine should be detached, the knife bayonet removed, the hammer released from the cocking cam, the rifle set at safe, the sight slide set at the division "n".
2.8.2. In barracks and in camp keep the rifle in arm racks, keep the optical sight covered, keep magazines, a carrier for the sight and magazines, the knife bayonet in scabbard, a bag for the SPTA, the sling for carrying the small arms and accessories in a special section of the same arm rack. The carrier for the optical sight and the magazines, the slip cover and the sling should be clean and dry.
2.8.3. In case of a temporary stay in some building keep the rifle in a dry place, away from a door, stoves and heaters. In combat situation hold the rifle with the hands.
2.8.4. In field exercises and on march, carry the rifle in the "slung" position. The sling should be so adjusted as to prevent the rifle from striking against the hard objects of the accoutrements. The rifle is carried with one magazine attached. The rest magazines are in the carrier.
2.8.5. When travelling by trucks or armoured personnel carriers hold the rifle between the knees, in the vertical position, and when travelling by tanks hold the rifle with the hands, taking care to protect from striking against the armour.
2.8.6. When transported by railway or by water, place the rifle on a special arm rack. If the carriage or the ship is not furnished with arm racks, hold the rifle with the hands or put it on the shelf, in doing so make sure that it will not drop or be damaged.
2.8.7. To prevent the barrel from building or rupture, never plug the bore with anything.
2.8.8. Prevent the optical sight from dropping, protect it from sharp blows and jolts, and prevent moisture and dust from getting inside the optics. Keep the optical sight protected with the cover in dry heated premises; if the sight is attached to the rifle, but fire is not delivered, protect the sight with its slip cover. Wipe thoroughly wet sights with dry waste cloth, and dry the slip covers. It is prohibited to keep the sights near stoves and bonfire.

</div></div>

While you're on the Shilen site, take a look around. The Spetznaz are currently evaluating a sniper rifle built around the 9.3x63 cartridge, very similar to the slightly faster .35 Whelen.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

I would not say a chrome lined barrel is impervious to corrosion (stainless steel firearms rust also). The chrome improves barrel wear but its not corrosion proof. Where you happen to live (environment) has an effect also. Salt is more reactive with the presence of moisture. If your in Arizona with a low relative humidity Vs. Ohio that might be in the +60% range corrosion will be active sooner.

Also is regards to Czech 7.62X54R I am unsure if the priming is corrosive or the powder itself but it is some of the nastiest corrosive ammo I have ever fired.That being said a few simple passes with soapy water or Balistol eliminate the problem. I think the soap added gives the water a better surface film tension for cleaning. The water dissolves the salt and end of problem. I have been using Balistol for my cartridge BP and corrosive ammo and its pretty amazing stuff.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

The best trick I'd been taught for removing corrosive priming etc. (including surplus .303) was BOILING WATER.

Reasoning behind this, is that the metal absorbs the heat when you're flushing it with boiling water. Copious amounts, at that. (Wood removed, and disassembled) When bluing, we'd boil the metal in tanks of boiling water. Then, when it is removed from the water, the heat in the metal boils away any moisture, right then and there. Instant application of oils, prevents oxidization.

To which I'll add this: Oils and solvents DO NOT dissolve salts. Only the water does. So if you want the corrosive salts removed from the firearm, they need to be washed/dissolved with water. Anything else is just hiding it. And it WILL rust/corrode over time.

My 0.02 dollars.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

Yes SVD barrel is chrome-lined.

We weren't using RCHS solution (drinking water + ammonium bicarbonate + potassium dichromate), just the oil. The way I read SVD manual (in Russian) section 2.7.4 - one can use oil <span style="text-decoration: underline">or</span> RCHS solution.

Don't know if that had anything to do with the kind of ammo we were shooting (I didn't notice anything special about it), or just lack of "pedantic attention to details"... Or perhaps the fact that this third ingredient is highly toxic, carcinogenic, its solutions damage skin readily on contact, and all the instructions say it should be handled only with rubber gloves...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While you're on the Shilen site, take a look around. The Spetznaz are currently evaluating a sniper rifle built around the 9.3x63 cartridge, very similar to the slightly faster .35 Whelen.</div></div>
It looks like bullet weights and muzzle velocities of 9.3x64 Brenneke round are comparable 338 Lapua Magnum, but ballistically it's close to .375 H&H Magnum (with heavier recoil than H&H). It is considered for distances 600m-800m against lightly-armoured targets.

Russians developed a sniper round 7N33 (9.3x63) based on Brenneke. It was accepted in 2006 for SVDK sniper rifle (SVD Large Caliber). According to discussions among Russian "users" this round sucks compared to 338 LM. Actually one gentleman called this development "money laundering".

<span style="font-style: italic">Damn, it's confusing! I just stumbled upon a Russian reference that says "SVDK is 9.3x64 rifle", not 9.3x63. So I give up - let others who care find out what's the real cartridge size of 7N33 is. I'm 99.9% sure I'll never handle it (or SVDK) anyway.
smile.gif
</span>
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

Ballistol is non-toxic and biodegradable, 20%-50 % water has been used by the black powder bunch for years. I use it on Russian 5.45 corrosive ammo, seems to work well for me.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unsichtbar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ballistol is non-toxic and biodegradable, 20%-50 % water has been used by the black powder bunch for years. I use it on Russian 5.45 corrosive ammo, seems to work well for me. </div></div>


And it has a unique aroma or smell as the wife says....

Good stuff. I was reluctant to try it and I was amazed how many uses it has and works well.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

Really hot water heats up the metal in the firearm. That heat helps evaporate off any remaining water. But only a fool would say that oil is a bad idea after hot soapy water. The soap is SUPPOSED to dissolve the oil, so it is only common sense to replace it.

But if you use a cloth with oil on it while the steel is still hot, it is really easy to just wipe the parts down to prevent any of the rust.

Windex works great until you can get to the hot soapy water. Also, Hoppes was designed to combat the corrosive salts. I guess that there just isn't a short cut if you want to do a good job cleaning and maintaining a firearm.

The windex, or a patch of hoppes right after firing at the range is better than nothing. You will still need to do a decent cleaning after you get the time to do it. But windex, hoppes, or almost anything that neutralizes, or even reduces the amount of salts in the bore is better than nothing.

The only thing I would avoid is adding just a little neutral moisture to the salts in the barrel. That would just get the corrosion a really good chance to start, when not adding the moisture would at the very least, not encourage the corrosion to start.
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

+1 for hot soapy water, then windex... then the 3 in 1. Thats what I've done for years with no problems at all
 
Re: Cleaning after Corrosive-Ammo

When I shoot corrosive ammo I immediately clean with a solution of baking soda and water that I keep premixed in a big pill bottle in my range bag. Shake up the bottle, run soaked patches through, run dry patches through, then rem oil. Good to go!