Gunsmithing Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

[LRI]

A few weeks ago I installed one of these for the first time on a cst gun. I went about it using what I could find online and emulated what the 2112's at PWS do. (I guess its how they do it anyway)

While the process certainly works, there were a few things that stood out and I decided then/there that if I did another one I'd change it.

Out of the blue a germ from NY called a couple weeks ago and asked us to work over his M700 action. His list of wants included fitting a M40 clip slotted base. Perfect opportunity to revamp what I'd done previously.

First thing I didn't like about how its typically done is removing so much material from behind the top lug abutment on the receiver. So, rather than machine all the way into the raceway I cut the base's lug shorter and left a pad in the receiver.

This way the front of the bolt head behind the lugs is still supported as if the base wasn't there. It also leaves meat behind the lug abutment of the receiver. This can only be a good thing since its the business end of the action.

Next was the rear portion. The way I'd seen it done was to flatten the entire rear bridge for the back of the base to sit on. Again, it works, but I think there's a better way.

Instead I just machined enough for the base to sit on. This way it serves as a sort of keyway and provides additional support to the sides of the base. What made me think about it was how snug main caps fit into a cylinder case when assembling a V8 engine. This is more or less the same idea.

Last is fitting the rear lug on the base to the slot in the receiver. Again observing that by cutting the bridge all the way through it reduces the bearing surface that the back of the bolt needs for support when in battery with the striker spring compressed. So again I left material for the bearing surface.

The base holes were enlarged to 8-40 using the shop's std practice of indicating off the bore center (we'd accurized this receiver so I didn't use a false barrel on this one) and interpolating the new hole location with an endmill and following up with thread milling the wrinkles instead of using a tap. This keeps everything spot on for location. Don't have to worry about dull taps either.

Here's the finished piece. Pretty happy with it and I think it elevates the robustness of the whole setup.

C.

 

[RMPSTRAT]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

killer way to do it and keeping the strength!

 

[groundhogbuster]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

WOW, never saw that before, but awesome work. Whats your TA right now, just to bed a 700 5R HSP stock, and check it out.

 

[lw8]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

Awesome.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

I like it!

 

[linedrive301ft]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

Chad, good attention to detail. Love the way you fit the base.

Regards

 

[latinaincovina]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

I have seen 2 different types of clip slot actions. What is the difference in the 2?

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Girl4Guns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen 2 different types of clip slot actions. What is the difference in the 2? </div></div>

There is actually only one clip slot. If it doesn't have the slots to hold the clip, then it is just a relief cut to allow clearance for a longer cartridge. The latter is all that is required to use the lugged base.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

Nice

 

[Raven 6]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

Chad, send me a PM if your interested in a copy of the print for doing these slots per USMC spec.

 

[latinaincovina]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

can any quality machine shop do this to a standard action?

 

[kennygss]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

I bet you could put one of those on my M1A.

 

[LRI]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Girl4Guns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can any quality machine shop do this to a standard action? </div></div>

Sure, but you'll pay for it likely. I do it cheaper on the assumption that I will do it again because I'm a gunshop. A job shop isn't likely to have a mad dash of shooters rushing to their doors asking for clip slotted actions. I eat the programming/fixturing costs, a job shop won't.

Figure an hour minimum for programming. $100-$200 bucks.
Run time: a one off part will likely run about 2 hours with the setup. $100-$200 bucks.
2nd op to modify the base: another setup and cycle time. Do the math

Nevermind the likelyhood of needing to keep the receiver overnight, that takes an FFL. So now are potential law breakers.

Not impossible, just expensive.

 

[lngrng]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

Chad,
I've been a lurker here for a couple of years and am one who not only appreciates your posts, but am impressed by your knowledge.
I do however, have a question..........my understanding of "clip-slotting" is to machine the receiver to accept a clip adapter to accept stripper clips for quick reloads of the magazine.
I do not understand the purpose of the machining that this post refers to. Can you shed some light on it and tell me what is accomplished by the machining.
Thanks in advance, and keep the wonderful, detailed posts coming!

Mark

 

[eodcam]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

I believe it's referred to as "lug slotting" as opposed to the traditional Clip Slotting.

 

[LRI]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Van Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad,
I've been a lurker here for a couple of years and am one who not only appreciates your posts, but am impressed by your knowledge.
I do however, have a question..........my understanding of "clip-slotting" is to machine the receiver to accept a clip adapter to accept stripper clips for quick reloads of the magazine.
I do not understand the purpose of the machining that this post refers to. Can you shed some light on it and tell me what is accomplished by the machining.
Thanks in advance, and keep the wonderful, detailed posts coming!

Mark </div></div>


Hi Mark,

In a technical setting you are indeed correct. We aren't really modifying the action to accept stripper clips. It's a laymen's term that's become the commonly accepted way of describing this machining operation.

The purpose is to offer a more solid union between receiver/scope base. It's a topic that's routinely brought up here in the GS section. (most recent being the guy who's base is coming loose after 6 mos) With the lugs "slip fitted" to the action and the extra purchase area between base/receiver the idea is that the whole assembly is much more tolerant to use, abuse. It's using a mechanical locking system for location and screws simply do the job of retention. (where's before they were serving a dual purpose.

Hope this helped.

C.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

Innovative, beautifully crafted, what's not to like?

 

[Atlshaun]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

Did the guy know you would be experimenting on a new procedure with his action? I would be scared if mine was the science project. Seems, on the surface, like it worked out, but I would have been nervous had it been mine.

 

[338RUM runner]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

If you don't trust the guy working on your gun don't send it to him. As far as C.Dixon, he could do any thing he wanted to my rifle, the man has skills that are better than 99.9%.

 

[lngrng]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

Chad,

Thanks for the clarification re-"clip slotting". Your machining operation definitely does provide a superior purchase for the scope base, and makes perfect sense....it was the term "clip-slotting" that had me confused as it's obvious that one would be unable to use stripper clips with a mounted scope.
As always, your photos and write-ups are a joy to see.

Mark

 

[LRI]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Atlshaun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did the guy know you would be experimenting on a new procedure with his action? I would be scared if mine was the science project. Seems, on the surface, like it worked out, but I would have been nervous had it been mine. </div></div>

No, he didn't. He said he wanted the piece fitted and thats what I did. Were not talking rocket science here. It's two simple components fitted using $55K worth of software and a 4 axis CNC mill. I'd like to make the bold assumption that if I have equipment like this, I have the ability to put the square peg in the square hole.

I'm often given a long leash by my clients. Its oftentimes because I make the effort to discuss things with them well ahead of putting a tool to a piece of material. So before this corrodes into a BBQ lets get the facts straight.

C.

 

[chakup]

Re: Clip slotting for M40 base on M700

Chad is one of the few smiths I'm considering sending parts to once I have them all. I would be totally confident in saying here's $X dollars, have fun.

Had the customer specified they wanted a 100% clone (or whatever proper term is) then maybe an issue. However customer asked for this base installed and Chad went above and beyond to make it a better/more solid mounting.
But that's just my $0.02

 

[19Scout77]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Atlshaun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did the guy know you would be experimenting on a new procedure with his action? I would be scared if mine was the science project. Seems, on the surface, like it worked out, but I would have been nervous had it been mine. </div></div>

No, he didn't. He said he wanted the piece fitted and thats what I did. Were not talking rocket science here. It's two simple components fitted using $55K worth of software and a 4 axis CNC mill. I'd like to make the bold assumption that if I have equipment like this, I have the ability to put the square peg in the square hole.

I'm often given a long leash by my clients. Its oftentimes because I make the effort to discuss things with them well ahead of putting a tool to a piece of material. So before this corrodes into a BBQ lets get the facts straight.

C.

So was your client pleased with the work you did, despite the fact that the completed project will not be a USMC spec build?

 

[Joe40x]

Did the guy know you would be experimenting on a new procedure with his action? I would be scared if mine was the science project. Seems, on the surface, like it worked out, but I would have been nervous had it been mine.

Please forgive me if I offend anyone here.
There are two types of gunsmiths.
1) The part replacers.
2) Actual gunsmiths.
A part replacer would have thrown it in the mill and 15 min. later you would have a half assed job. A gunsmith...well, your reading this post, so you see what a gunsmith does.
When you drop off your parts to a true gunsmith, you give them a great deal of leeway on how the job gets done. After all, He is the expert on how it is to be properly done.
Example: I wanted to build a 22 based on a 40x action.
I called Hart Rifle Barrels.
I told them I wanted a 22lr barrel to fit in a Remington 700 adl stock.
They said "OK"
I told them it should be able of head shots on squirrles @ 50yds.
They said "OK, Send it up here and we will handle it"
Do I know how they did it? No. Do I care how they did it? No. Did they do it the way they always have or try something new? I don't know. Nor do I care.
All I do know is that they are true gunsmiths and it shoots 5rnds into the high .1's at 50yds. Thier smith said 11 words to me and delivered first class work.
If they told me that they had to wait until the next full moon to chamber it and it had to sit in a vat of pickle juice till then, who am I to tell them otherwise?
The work is 1st class and it shoots!
If you don't trust your smith find a new one!

 

[19Scout77]

Unless of course you ask your smith to do a spec build...with all its shortcomings...and the smith does something different.

Sure a custom built on a surgeon action in a aiax chassis is a fantastic weapon that exceeds a spec build in every way...but it aint a spec build.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

So was your client pleased with the work you did, despite the fact that the completed project will not be a USMC spec build?

Way to resurrect a thread that's almost a year-and-a-half old just to bag on Chad's ingenuity. That makes sense.

 

[LRI]

Ughhhh.

Nowhere in the conversation did anyone mention USMC Spec.

On that note, lets get something sorted out here. I am a former Marine. Based on that experience I can tell you that just cause its how we do it, it sure as hell doesn't mean its the best way to do it.

The Marine Corps clings to traditions. Both good and bad. When a Commandant finally had the sense/nerve to say "why the phuk are Lance Criminals spit shining boots in the 20th century he changed it.

I'd bet more than a few bucks that uniform change sent many a 1st Sgts through the stratosphere because they now DIDN't have something to fuss about come Monday Morning formation.

Been there, done that!

I've been to PWS. At the risk of sounding like a pompus jerk, there's a number of things I would change in the interest of simplicity of maintenance in the field while deployed, as well as, ensuring better longevity to extend 3rd echelon service cycles.

I can say this because I've been there and done that too. 3x years in Iraq as the chief armorer for the US Embassy in Dirkka Dirkka dahd. Not to mention a stint in Somalia back in the day.

If your just looking to make a point that I didn't follow USMC protocalls well your right, I didn't. I didn't do it very often while on active duty either.

It made me the best PMI in 1st FSSG and drove my section heads absolutely bat shit crazy. It's why I run my own ship now as a business owner.

The client isn't mother phukkin me and that's what ultimately matters to me.

Have a great night.

Semper Fidelis.

Chad

 

[lw8]

Unless of course you ask your smith to do a spec build...with all its shortcomings...and the smith does something different.

Sure a custom built on a surgeon action in a aiax chassis is a fantastic weapon that exceeds a spec build in every way...but it aint a spec build.

That might be my rifle in the pic....or one just like it. I asked Chad to fit the lugged base and he offered a general idea of his concept. I trust his work absolutely. I have two 700s with lugged bases, one done to USMC specs and one done Chad's way. I prefer his way having looked hard at both.

If he says this is the way to go...listen.

 

[USMC SgtMaj]

If your just looking to make a point that I didn't follow USMC protocalls well your right, I didn't. I didn't do it very often while on active duty either.

It made me the best PMI in 1st FSSG and drove my section heads absolutely bat shit crazy. It's why I run my own ship now as a business owner.

The client isn't mother phukkin me and that's what ultimately matters to me.

Have a great night.

Semper Fidelis.

Chad


That made me laugh, protocol? You should post a photo of the "luge". No doubt about the PMI part, we'd all wait on the 500 to fire our first shot until "The Chad" tested wind with his first shot. They couldn't stand it when a whole company would "cherry pick" your wind call, those were the days.

S/F

SgtMaj

 

[sr15match]

I really like this ideal and way of machining the receiver for the lugged rail. Quick question Chad, I couldn't see well enough in the pictures but was the ejection port machined out similar to the M40A* & Rem 40X receivers? I just picked up a donor rifle and might be interested in having a receiver done like this.

PM incoming.

 

[MAGUA]

Ughhhh.

Nowhere in the conversation did anyone mention USMC Spec.On that note, lets get something sorted out here. I am a former Marine. Based on that experience I can tell you that just cause its how we

do it, it sure as hell doesn't mean its the best way to do it.

The Marine Corps clings to traditions. Both good and bad. When a Commandant finally had the sense/nerve to say "why the phuk are Lance Criminals spit shining boots in the 20th century he changed it.

I'd bet more than a few bucks that uniform change sent many a 1st Sgts through the stratosphere because they now DIDN't have something to fuss about come Monday Morning formation.

Been there, done that!

I've been to PWS. At the risk of sounding like a pompus jerk, there's a number of things I would change in the interest of simplicity of maintenance in the field while deployed, as well as, ensuring better longevity to extend 3rd echelon service cycles.

I can say this because I've been there and done that too. 3x years in Iraq as the chief armorer for the US Embassy in Dirkka Dirkka dahd. Not to mention a stint in Somalia back in the day.

If your just looking to make a point that I didn't follow USMC protocalls well your right, I didn't. I didn't do it very often while on active duty either.

It made me the best PMI in 1st FSSG and drove my section heads absolutely bat shit crazy. It's why I run my own ship now as a business owner.

The client isn't mother phukkin me and that's what ultimately matters to me.

Have a great night.

Semper Fidelis.

Chad

First off , This is MY rifle there are " not " many like it but unfortunately this one is mine !

I sure as hell did state at length that i wanted my Receiver machined to the CORRECT USMC SPECS to accept my USMC 30 MOA DOUBLE LUGGED RAIL. I also stated that i wanted my USMC Contract Schneider barrel installed to the Correct USMC Specs.

Why in the hell would someone spend a lot of time and money to accumulate these CORRECT USMC SPEC PARTS and then intentionally allow someone to experiment and modify them .

I guess you never received my voicemails about my disgust upon receiving the rifle.

When i received the rifle the first thing i noticed was that the rail appeared to have a bow in it. I placed a straight edge on the top and there was at least a sixteenth of an inch gap at the end of the rail. I also noticed that the rail no longer had a 30 MOA cant it appeared to look flat like a zero canted base.

I unscrewed the base screws and they loosened but would not come out they were stuck to the rail. I tried to pull the rail off and it would not budge , i tapped it from the bottom and it would not move, i then took a large brass punch and mallot and started banging away until it eventually popped out.

I then noticed that the base screws were threaded in to the bottom of the base holes because it appeared that the base holes had been elongated forward and the screws had threaded themselves into the base. I removed the screws from the base and they were all galled bad along with the holes in the Receiver.

I then eyeballed the rail and it appeared to look straight so i put the straight edge on it and there was zero gap on the top now. It is obvious that the rail was under tremendous stress and was binding in the receiver.

The rear ejection port was machined too far back and was flat , not the Correct USMC Spec halfmoon notch.

The barrel crown was not a USMC crown, the rifle would not chamber a round so i had to have a local guy slightly ream and polish the chamber

I asked you to not put any kind of finish on the Receiver and barrel because i said i would have finished it my self. You went ahead and Parkerized my Receiver ,bolt and lugs.
This was an early 7 digit Receiver that was always smooth as silk to lift the bolt and cycle. It now takes a great deal of force to lift the bolt after it is fired ..so much so that the rifle will come off the ground and want to fall over.

Unfortunately there is no fix for this.

Let's not make a pissing match out of this.. IT IS DONE !

 

[Ledzep]

Internet speculation: The base was not designed to be mounted on a "lowered" rear bridge. The flat cut took out the 30 MOA and caused binding?

eta: Not trying to fuel a fire here. I think there's something to be learned. At least I'm curious to know what caused the alleged issues and what the fix might be.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

First off , This is MY rifle there are " not " many like it but unfortunately this one is mine !

I sure as hell did state at length that i wanted my Receiver machined to the CORRECT USMC SPECS to accept my USMC 30 MOA DOUBLE LUGGED RAIL. I also stated that i wanted my USMC Contract Schneider barrel installed to the Correct USMC Specs.

Why in the hell would someone spend a lot of time and money to accumulate these CORRECT USMC SPEC PARTS and then intentionally allow someone to experiment and modify them .

I guess you never received my voicemails about my disgust upon receiving the rifle.

When i received the rifle the first thing i noticed was that the rail appeared to have a bow in it. I placed a straight edge on the top and there was at least a sixteenth of an inch gap at the end of the rail. I also noticed that the rail no longer had a 30 MOA cant it appeared to look flat like a zero canted base.

I unscrewed the base screws and they loosened but would not come out they were stuck to the rail. I tried to pull the rail off and it would not budge , i tapped it from the bottom and it would not move, i then took a large brass punch and mallot and started banging away until it eventually popped out.

I then noticed that the base screws were threaded in to the bottom of the base holes because it appeared that the base holes had been elongated forward and the screws had threaded themselves into the base. I removed the screws from the base and they were all galled bad along with the holes in the Receiver.

I then eyeballed the rail and it appeared to look straight so i put the straight edge on it and there was zero gap on the top now. It is obvious that the rail was under tremendous stress and was binding in the receiver.

The rear ejection port was machined too far back and was flat , not the Correct USMC Spec halfmoon notch.

The barrel crown was not a USMC crown, the rifle would not chamber a round so i had to have a local guy slightly ream and polish the chamber

I asked you to not put any kind of finish on the Receiver and barrel because i said i would have finished it my self. You went ahead and Parkerized my Receiver ,bolt and lugs.
This was an early 7 digit Receiver that was always smooth as silk to lift the bolt and cycle. It now takes a great deal of force to lift the bolt after it is fired ..so much so that the rifle will come off the ground and want to fall over.

Unfortunately there is no fix for this.

Let's not make a pissing match out of this.. IT IS DONE !

Chad is a stand-up guy and one of the best smiths around. Talk to anyone that actually shoots his builds. This definitely doesn't pass the smell test. I know Chad will eventually get around to responding to this, but it's unfortunate that he will have to take time away from his real job of building rifles to spend it responding to internet crying from an immature customer such as yourself. Also Magua, you have less than 100 posts, and are really going out of your way to bash a very reputable smith who's been on this board with excellent standing for a long time. I'll be giving the Mod's a heads up on this, hoping you get banned so you can take your crying to a more professionally appropriate place.

-VB

 

[buckey]

Some may blast me, but oh well I have balls and will express my true feelings/thoughts - Chad's ego gets in his way............he built me a rifle that I hated and had big time gunsmith problems.... tried to talk to him about it but in his mind, its was my issue not his.............. I will NEVER use him for anything EVER again!!

For him, my business is nothing...he has many customers, but if you asked for something specific and he went another route, you have a legitimate complaint/bitch!!

Putty and paint can't hide problems - good luck to all parties involved!!

 

[lw8]

First off , This is MY rifle there are " not " many like it but unfortunately this one is mine !

I sure as hell did state at length that i wanted my Receiver machined to the CORRECT USMC SPECS to accept my USMC 30 MOA DOUBLE LUGGED RAIL. I also stated that i wanted my USMC Contract Schneider barrel installed to the Correct USMC Specs.

Why in the hell would someone spend a lot of time and money to accumulate these CORRECT USMC SPEC PARTS and then intentionally allow someone to experiment and modify them .

I guess you never received my voicemails about my disgust upon receiving the rifle.

When i received the rifle the first thing i noticed was that the rail appeared to have a bow in it. I placed a straight edge on the top and there was at least a sixteenth of an inch gap at the end of the rail. I also noticed that the rail no longer had a 30 MOA cant it appeared to look flat like a zero canted base.

I unscrewed the base screws and they loosened but would not come out they were stuck to the rail. I tried to pull the rail off and it would not budge , i tapped it from the bottom and it would not move, i then took a large brass punch and mallot and started banging away until it eventually popped out.

I then noticed that the base screws were threaded in to the bottom of the base holes because it appeared that the base holes had been elongated forward and the screws had threaded themselves into the base. I removed the screws from the base and they were all galled bad along with the holes in the Receiver.

I then eyeballed the rail and it appeared to look straight so i put the straight edge on it and there was zero gap on the top now. It is obvious that the rail was under tremendous stress and was binding in the receiver.

The rear ejection port was machined too far back and was flat , not the Correct USMC Spec halfmoon notch.

The barrel crown was not a USMC crown, the rifle would not chamber a round so i had to have a local guy slightly ream and polish the chamber

I asked you to not put any kind of finish on the Receiver and barrel because i said i would have finished it my self. You went ahead and Parkerized my Receiver ,bolt and lugs.
This was an early 7 digit Receiver that was always smooth as silk to lift the bolt and cycle. It now takes a great deal of force to lift the bolt after it is fired ..so much so that the rifle will come off the ground and want to fall over.

Unfortunately there is no fix for this.

Let's not make a pissing match out of this.. IT IS DONE !

Every rifle that leaves his shop gets test fired...I've seen it first hand. What you are saying about it not being able to chamber a round is impossible unless you are using something non standard like an AI chambering or similar that differes from what was requested...handloads?

 

[bpm81]

This definitely doesn't pass the smell test. I know Chad will eventually get around to responding to this, but it's unfortunate that he will have to take time away from his real job of building rifles to spend it responding to internet crying from immature customer such as yourself. Also Magua, you have less than 100 posts, and are really going out of your way to bash a very reputable smith who's been on this board with excellent standing for a long time. I'll be giving the Mod's a heads up on this, hoping you get banned so you can take your crying to a more professionally appropriate place.

So in your mind:

1) Chad can do no wrong. Note that the original discussion basically died after "Does the customer know you are doing it this way?"
2) Only those with 500+ (?) posts are allowed to complain about something. (Is post #35 in this thread a problem for you? He has over 1.7K posts)
3) Threatening people with vacations because they had a non-positive experience with a board sponsor is ok. Will this thread disappear next?

 

[MAGUA]

For the people who don't know how to read ! I said in my post to not make a pissing match out of this . I will not be roped into arguments with fucking idiots so if you want to notify the Mods or Lowlight to have me banned go right ahead. Hopefully the Mod who gets your idiotic message to ban me for speaking the truth about MY rifle will Permanetly BAN your stupid ass for wasting his time with your bullshit. Don't forget to ask the Mods why i have less than 100 posts.

Lw8
Yes my handloads would not chamber and i also tried to chamber a factory Federal match and Winchester supreme match . Please don't assume things are IMPOSSIBLE when you have no first hand knowledge about my rifle . Everything i mentioned about my rifle is unfortunately true and i am done with it . So i will say it again please don't turn this into a pissing match.

 

[Tpb10505]

Everything i mentioned about my rifle is unfortunately true and i am done with it .

Done you say? Send it to me if you feel its worthless lol.

 

[lw8]

For the people who don't know how to read ! I said in my post to not make a pissing match out of this . I will not be roped into arguments with fucking idiots so if you want to notify the Mods or Lowlight to have me banned go right ahead. Hopefully the Mod who gets your idiotic message to ban me for speaking the truth about MY rifle will Permanetly BAN your stupid ass for wasting his time with your bullshit. Don't forget to ask the Mods why i have less than 100 posts.

Lw8
Yes my handloads would not chamber and i also tried to chamber a factory Federal match and Winchester supreme match . Please don't assume things are IMPOSSIBLE when you have no first hand knowledge about my rifle . Everything i mentioned about my rifle is unfortunately true and i am done with it . So i will say it again please don't turn this into a pissing match.

Why didn't you send it back?

 

[LRI]

Some may blast me, but oh well I have balls and will express my true feelings/thoughts - Chad's ego gets in his way............he built me a rifle that I hated and had big time gunsmith problems.... tried to talk to him about it but in his mind, its was my issue not his.............. I will NEVER use him for anything EVER again!!

For him, my business is nothing...he has many customers, but if you asked for something specific and he went another route, you have a legitimate complaint/bitch!!

Putty and paint can't hide problems - good luck to all parties involved!!

-I've come back to work just to address this. My "smart phone" is acting about as intelligent as the statement quoted above.



K. You can stop right there buck shot. Here are some facts gents. First you are correct about one thing:

I Never want your business again. Fuck in aye, you nailed that one. Dealing with you is like a tooth extraction combined with a pap smear .

1. This saga begins with a phone call. YOU called me and while sucking me off on the phone your calling Mike Bush and Black Ops every name in the book. Yes, Buckey, you did. Or did we forget that part??

2. You then went on a tangent about Robert Gradeous. (Sorry if I spelled that wrong.) How his stuff is just so so but he's local.and your buddies so you can't really bad mouth him publicly. Does any of this ring a bell??

Call me a liar you piece of shit. I dare you.

3. You tell me to inlet and bed a stock that I had in inventory. I did exactly as you asked. Then midstream a different one suddenly appears in the mail and I get to start over. YES. You DID offer to pay for that stock. No, I did not let you. Why? Customer service. I wanted your business and this was a small gesture to prove it. It's not about one gun. I want the long term relationship.

4. Once your rifle was finished you raved and raved about how great it was to me over the phone. This was right around Christmas Eve of 2011. Do you recall that conversation???

It was all roses and honeymoons RIGHT up to where I told you that I made a mistake and cut the length of pull too short. To resolve the issue I grafted a 1/2 inch piece of hickory to the stock and put a pad on it. I punctuated the comment by saying that I called Dakota Arms and spoke with Ward Dobler, the facility GM to inquire how they'd go about fixing it. -We all know that they do shit work right???

At least give me this much: Had I not told you, you'd of never known it. The stock is sitting in my shop right now so choose your words carefully. I acquired it back after you stripped and sold the gun. A 100 or more folks have seen it hanging in the shop and not one has ever said "is that a wood block on the ass end of that thing?"

For those curious it's the green bullfrog stock back on the rack.

Next. Suddenly your blowing up factory ammo and terrified to shoot it, yet I shipped it with over 20 warmed up hand loads ran through it with no issues. When I ask if you attempted to return the stuff, you get real distant real quick. Hmmmm...... I smell something.

then we talk and you say that the stock just won't do. That you just can't get your head wrapped around a half inch of foreign material stuck between the recoil pad and the fiberglass. Alas, we make a handshake agreement over the phone that I will restock the gun. From that point on I considered the matter closed as I expected to see a box coming in the mail.

2 days later you call/email/pm and want a full refund.

To all reading this. This was 3 years ago. Dec of 2011.

I told you that I would agree to the arrangement we'd settled on. Not what YOU'd SETTLED on after, what WE decided two days earlier. When you didn't get your way, the shit fit started. That's when I lost interest.

Point is Mr. "poor farmer from PA" I've gotten wiser at identifying types of people. When a guy calls and starts a mother phukker fest over other well known shops it's a red flag.

When a guy goes bipolar and behaves like he has the attention span of a dog-Squirrel! It's a red flag.

When a man tells another guy over the phone that "yes we have a deal" then I take him for his word. When he calls 2 days later ranting and whining I move up and move on. that phrase ring a bell?

3 strikes your out pal.

I've endured your pokes and cheap shots now for 3 years. I'm good. Your full of shit dude and you know it.

Buck your one of the few that I'd tell to such an egg to your face. Funny how Mike Bush is a God to you again. Your sure weren't too keen on him or Robert back then.

This is as true as true gets.

IN CLOSING:

Had you acted like a grown man, you'd of gotten your way. Since my ego gets in the way all the time know this:

J. Fogg from New Jersey. I ruined his action last summer. He got a new one the next day. Why? Joe is a man, not a bitch.
D. Dodsen from Nevada. I scrapped his reciever while setting up the Kitamura. He got a new one 2 days later. He also registers zero on the bitch meter.
I marked up a guys AI AX chassis stock when it slipped in the soft jaws, caught an edge, and marked up his skins. You cant buy replacement skins for that. Guess what? $1500 and some shipping later he got a brand new stock. He's a man and we spoke as men. The Barbie fest got checked at the door.
A really nice ol boy from down south sent me his beloved 700 that he's had forever to accurize and barrel during our GB. Guess what? I goofed again. When I called and told him that I had a replacement he asked if I could find a way to repair it. I did just that he was appreciative beyond words. Once again. Bitches need not apply.

Honesty, doing the right thing. 4 pointed cases with names that are right here on the hide. I take it personally when someone makes the ill attempt to trash something I've worked hard for. This is why your getting the attention you apparently wanted from me so badly.

This will be my last post on the matter. So have it Bucktooth.


peace out girlscout.


c.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

So in your mind:

1) Chad can do no wrong. Note that the original discussion basically died after "Does the customer know you are doing it this way?"
2) Only those with 500+ (?) posts are allowed to complain about something. (Is post #35 in this thread a problem for you? He has over 1.7K posts)
3) Threatening people with vacations because they had a non-positive experience with a board sponsor is ok. Will this thread disappear next?

1 - Chad is human, of course he make mistakes. But from my experience and those of others who've dealt with him, they're rare and he always tries to make it right.

2 - There's a difference between complaining and calling a reputable smith a "butcher" and lying about what actually transpired. This forum is not a public forum, it is not yours or anyone else's right to post things here the Mod's don't agree with, because they built it and it's their business resource. They have a vested interest in keeping their customers happy i.e. Long Rifles, GAP, APA etc... those guys help Frank pay the bills and keep the lights on for the rest of us. Frank doesn't allow s**ty ass shops to sponsor this board, therefore newer members need to tread very lightly when bad mouthing business's that he has already deemed worthy enough to sponsor his site.

3 - As I said before, there's a difference between relating a non-positive experience in an adult and professional manner, and outright name calling and lying. If the Mod's want this thread to disappear, then guess what?... It will!!! Because it's their Board, they built it and can do what they want with it.

-VB

 

[338RUM runner]

I always like to hear " The rest of the story "

 

[gimpy]

 

[buckey]

Don't you mean??....and now the rest of ONE story...

Exactly, one side of the story and there is two........................no further commentary!!!

 

[deadly0311]

Exactly........................no further commentary!!!

So is Chad's post about your story correct or no? With your response it seems that it is.

 

[Vantastic]

Man there are some bitchy divas on this site. I believe Chad.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

Man there are some bitchy divas on this site. I believe Chad.

Not so much bitchy divas as narcissistic, immature males that need to put others down in order to feel important. Not sure there's much of difference though, and yes Chad's telling the truth. Out of the thousands of customer's he deals with, you're always going to have that less than 1% that you can't make happy because they are fundamentally unhappy people. That's not Chad's problem, that's their problem. A gunsmith isn't a therapist or a magician which is what these guys really need.

 

[19Scout77]

Chad, have you offerred to replace the receiver, barrel, recoil lug and scope base that you used to create the barreled action that started this thread?

To be clear to vbb and the other FoC I am not referring to Buckey, I am referring to the complete set of spec parts that Magua sent you. You have demonstrated that you take care of your mistakes. Clearly, as you admitted, you made these deviations from the usmc specs without asking your client and clearly he is not happy with the results. Never once did he act as anything other than a gentleman. Wouldn't replacing his parts and refunding the fees he paid you be the right thing to do? I am sure he will send you the first barrelled action, which you can sell to defray the costs of making him whole.

 

[MLC]

As many have noted the signal to noise ratio on this site has changed a bit in the past few years.

In my opinion there are just as many pathetic sycophants on this site too.
I never imagined the day where it would be common to see a grown man playing waterboy to a gunsmith on the internet.

The thesis of this thread was the improvement on the clipslot bedding process.
A customer came forward only after it was mentioned and stated that they were unhappy with EXACTLY that work and how it was done.
The description of the rifle as he received it would be unacceptable to any of us as the build was in no way what he ordered and paid for.
I cannot understand how some of you bit the Buckey bait, followed the tangent and did not observe that the OP did not address real grievances that were directly related to the thesis of the thread.

 

[lw8]

Chad, have you offerred to replace the receiver, barrel, recoil lug and scope base that you used to create the barreled action that started this thread?

To be clear to vbb and the other FoC I am not referring to Buckey, I am referring to the complete set of spec parts that Magua sent you. You have demonstrated that you take care of your mistakes. Clearly, as you admitted, you made these deviations from the usmc specs without asking your client and clearly he is not happy with the results. Never once did he act as anything other than a gentleman. Wouldn't replacing his parts and refunding the fees he paid you be the right thing to do? I am sure he will send you the first barrelled action, which you can sell to defray the costs of making him whole.

Your posts in this thread seem to indicate some sort of inside knowledge...how do you know the guy claiming to have a busted rifle?

Why didn't he send it back?