College For The Kids

theLBC

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i suggest (if you are still young) putting $1000 (or more) into a fund and let it sit until your kids are old enough to go to college, move out on their own, go to trade school, or whatever options they have. you'd be surprised how much it will be. not much after 10 years, but decent after 20.
 

Im2bent

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Jun 30, 2020
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Depends on the degree. I went the vocational route and got my airframe and powerplant license and went to work for US Air as a mechanic. Starting pay was 15 bucks an hour to work on airliners. Minus union dues. 6 years later I was making a whopping 20 bucks an hour. Why yes I am a poors. My childhood friend got a mechanical engineering degree and his M.B.A he makes 250k a year. His son just graduated with an engineering degree his entry level job starting out is 80k. If its an engineering degree or law or something that pays then yeah if they want a liberal arts degree then just kill them for their own good. Some places just want that piece of paper or they won't even consider you. Doesn't matter how smart you are or what you know if you don't have that damn piece of paper. Why yes I am bitter. Don't let your kids hate their lives, give them guidance whether they want it or not that way you can at least say "Well I tried to tell you but you blew me off" when they try to blame you for their lack of success. Sob
 

Mattrmvpd

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College does NOT have to be expensive. Many here talk about work/experience...

In the State of GA if you work for any institution after (6) months, you can apply for TAP (Tuition Assistance Program). The college you are working for will pay for 9hrs of classes every semester providing you make decent grades.
There are TONS of jobs on campuses soo the experience is endless.

This is how i got my education paid for. I worked for University Police and they inturn paid for both of my Masters and my Doctorial degree. After finishing i retired from LEO and moved to full-time faculty at my current institution.
 
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AngryKoala

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What's your take on college nowadays? I just had an interesting conversation with my financial planner about this. I have four kids, and I'm in the process of adopting a fifth. The adopted child is older and gets a free ride for being adopted out of foster care.

I have a fair bit of experience with undergrad and graduate schooling and I honestly don't see much value. I graduated at the top of my class, summa cum laude and was COMPLETELY useless to my first employer for about a year or two (public accounting.) I knew nothing that had any practical application and if left unsupervised I would have caused irreparable damage to clients.

Studying for the CPA actually helped a lot. Experience helped a lot more. College, as far as I'm concerned, was a massive waste of time and effort. It kills me when I hear liberals talk down the conservative base for being uneducated...

What's the game plan? I'd rather usher the kids into full time jobs right after high school, let them figure out what they want to do for four years and then give them the $100k to start a business or buy a house. Everyone I talk to thinks that's crazy.

On another note, why not more standardized licensing exams? If you know your stuff, who cares where you learned it? If you can pass the bar, why can't you practice as an attorney without seven years of college? If there's a case for income inequality, it's here. IMO, of course.

What say ye? Anyone out there with little ones that's mulling this over as well?
It depends on the maturity of your children. Some kids know exactly what profession they are passionate about. Other kids need to experience life for a few years before they can figure that out.

I was pushed toward medicine due to family pressure but I ended up partying my ass off due to lack of interest in the pursuit of becoming a doctor. I ended up becoming a chemist later in life and I am happy with my decision. However, I wasted a fair amount of money figuring that out because I wasn't mature enough to know what I wanted.
 
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theLBC

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Jun 21, 2019
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College does NOT have to be expensive. Many here talk about work/experience...

In the State of GA if you work for any institution after (6) months, you can apply for TAP (Tuition Assistance Program). The college you are working for will pay for 9hrs of classes every semester providing you make decent grades.
There are TONS of jobs on campuses soo the experience is endless.

This is how i got my education paid for. I worked for University Police and they inturn paid for both of my Masters and my Doctorial degree. After finishing i retired from LEO and moved to full-time faculty at my current institution.
one reason we got off light for my daughter's masters is she got a prof. asst. job and that actually paid for her housing and even some of the books. we had to get some furniture for the new housing unit like a small bed...which she left. she shared an apt with one other student.
 

vinniedelpino

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It depends on the maturity of your children. Some kids know exactly what profession they are passionate about. Other kids need to experience life for a few years before they can figure that out.

I was pushed toward medicine due to family pressure but I ended up partying my ass off due to lack of interest in the pursuit of becoming a doctor. I ended up becoming a chemist later in life and I am happy with my decision.

I also do not plan to pay for my kids college but to each their own.
They're soft. No doubt about it. I did a lot better than my parents financially and it's taking its toll on the kids. They've enjoyed a degree of security and comfort I didn't have growing up and it's rearing it's ugly head. Don't get me wrong, they're not like Veruca Salt or anything like that, but they've never had their bike stolen or worn hand-me-downs either. I don't think the value of a dollar can really be taught unless you've gone without, and they've had everything they need and then some. They're somewhat sheltered, and that's what scares me.

At 18, can you really be certain about what you want to do for the next 50 years? I'm not that optimistic. Too many kids change their mind and I'm not that confident in their resolve with so little life experience. I was dead set on being a music teacher. I was making money playing gigs in NYC in high school and was made second seat in the all-state orchestra. I don't even play anymore. I had scholarships and my choice of college. On the bright side, I still have about six years to figure this out.
 
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AngryKoala

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They're soft. No doubt about it. I did a lot better than my parents financially and it's taking its toll on the kids. They've enjoyed a degree of security and comfort I didn't have growing up and it's rearing it's ugly head. Don't get me wrong, they're not like Veruca Salt or anything like that, but they've never had their bike stolen or worn hand-me-downs either. I don't think the value of a dollar can really be taught unless you've gone without, and they've had everything they need and then some. They're somewhat sheltered, and that's what scares me.

At 18, can you really be certain about what you want to do for the next 50 years? I'm not that optimistic. Too many kids change their mind and I'm not that confident in their resolve with so little life experience. I was dead set on being a music teacher. I was making money playing gigs in NYC in high school and was made second seat in the all-state orchestra. I don't even play anymore. I had scholarships and my choice of college. On the bright side, I still have about six years to figure this out.
They may not know what they want to do but if they are mature enough they will be able to finish college on time, get a job and make a transition later in life once they experience their field (they may also stay in their field).
There are so many avenues to take thus there is no correct answer. Military and GI bill, working and paying for college, trade school, working first and then going to college later in life and scholarships are some of the possibilities.

I think one mistake we make as parents is not allowing our kids to fail out of fear. I am guilty of this as well but I am trying to improve it. Allow them to make mistakes but not a mistake that would destroy their life.
 
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theLBC

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They're soft. No doubt about it. I did a lot better than my parents financially and it's taking its toll on the kids. They've enjoyed a degree of security and comfort I didn't have growing up and it's rearing it's ugly head. Don't get me wrong, they're not like Veruca Salt or anything like that, but they've never had their bike stolen or worn hand-me-downs either. I don't think the value of a dollar can really be taught unless you've gone without, and they've had everything they need and then some. They're somewhat sheltered, and that's what scares me.

At 18, can you really be certain about what you want to do for the next 50 years? I'm not that optimistic. Too many kids change their mind and I'm not that confident in their resolve with so little life experience. I was dead set on being a music teacher. I was making money playing gigs in NYC in high school and was made second seat in the all-state orchestra. I don't even play anymore. I had scholarships and my choice of college. On the bright side, I still have about six years to figure this out.
what sucks is (at least around here) there is no budget for wood shop, metal shop, auto, home economics, etc., where kids can try things if their dad (or mom) isn't good with their hands or mechanically inclined, or isn't even there to begin with.
we were lucky that although we didn't have a lot of money, we had a garage full of tools growing up.

i almost think the UK system is better where you only go to regular school through middle school, and then decide if you want to go to college and start with your a-levels, or if you don't you go to trade school or find an apprenticeship if you can.
 

candyx

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Paid 50K for five years if your from another country financial aid was 30K a year , so I educated my child and a few others from other countries.
 
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vinniedelpino

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what sucks is (at least around here) there is no budget for wood shop, metal shop, auto, home economics, etc., where kids can try things if their dad (or mom) isn't good with their hands or mechanically inclined, or isn't even there to begin with.
we were lucky that although we didn't have a lot of money, we had a garage full of tools growing up.

i almost think the UK system is better where you only go to regular school through middle school, and then decide if you want to go to college and start with your a-levels, or if you don't you go to trade school or find an apprenticeship if you can.
Agreed. We fixed everything growing up, from appliances to vehicles, plumbing, electrical work and everything in between. I don't think my dad hired anyone to fix anything... ever. He knew his math because he used it to fabricate and fix things. He wasn't educated by todays standards, but he's still one of the most intelligent and capable men I know. I picked up half of what he tried to teach me, and at best my kids will pick up half of what I try to teach them. There's no more "shop" in my neck of the woods anymore either. It sucks.

If the doom and gloom SHTF scenarios ever came to fruition, these kids are screwed. I think I need to stop worrying about college right now and build a mini bike with my kid instead right now.
 
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rtB

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Apr 29, 2019
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I dropped out of high school.
Got my GED.
Worked some shit jobs
Worked my way up.
Worked for a bunch of assholes and a few good folks.
I now work for myself when I feel like it.

I tell my daughters the only thing that matters is "what have you done the last 4 years"

If that was going to school, you graduated, and got good grades, excellent.

If you actually worked at a job, increased your responsibility and pay, even better.

I worked with a bunch of Stanford PHDs for a number of years. They never had any real world experience, and couldn't understand delivering a product.
 

theLBC

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Agreed. We fixed everything growing up, from appliances to vehicles, plumbing, electrical work and everything in between. I don't think my dad hired anyone to fix anything... ever. He knew his math because he used it to fabricate and fix things. He wasn't educated by todays standards, but he's still one of the most intelligent and capable men I know. I picked up half of what he tried to teach me, and at best my kids will pick up half of what I try to teach them. There's no more "shop" in my neck of the woods anymore either. It sucks.

If the doom and gloom SHTF scenarios ever came to fruition, these kids are screwed. I think I need to stop worrying about college right now and build a mini bike with my kid instead right now.
i got my nephew a gransfors bruks small forest axe, for camping and survival (plus it is something he can proudly hand down).
his mom thought it might be too dangerous for a 14 year old.
my dad was an auto mechanic after the army, and if something on my car broke, i would find the parts and the shop manual on the porch.
had to change a water pump in the winter and banged my knuckles. fuck! it was like 50 deg. :p
i can't believe my dad did that shit when he lived in ann arbor where it actually gets cold. :ROFLMAO:
 
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Greg Langelius *

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College, for many, is a multi year extension of the teenage environment where responsibility is still on the horizon. It ls a game, with rules that can be overcome without much serious effort, and it has the negative effect of letting the individual think they can get by with minimum effort. It's Hogworts in the flesh. It also reinforces the party aspect and does very little to enhance critical thought, moral strength, or ethical beliefs. Get it all, any way you can.

If I were still hiring, paper would mean nothing to me. I did without it, paid some big prices for not being 'one of the boys', (Vietnam, for example), and never had to worry about whether I deserved anything, I just dug in and earned it; which seems to be an alien concept these days.

Being a Marine helped me face and conquer problems far more then college could have, because I knew that yes, I could die trying, but if I did, my problems were over anyway. Damned few of my HS Colleagues who went on to college can say that, or even understand it. When I'd meet them after the war, they'd see the uniform and get humble real quick. I didn't have to say or do anything to earn that respect, it came with the uniform; and if it didn't, I instantly knew who I was wasting my time on.

Today, it's a course of running over SJW hurdles, with knowledge taking back seat, or no seat at all.

I wouldn't send anyone I like to college these days. I wouldn't send anyone I didn't like, either; we already have too many of those self entitled college educated horse puppies clogging up the career paths.

Some of them would scoff because I never lived the Greek life, and therefore never learned loyalty to one's frat brothers. These days, they screw over those frat brothers just like they do to everybody else.

They wouldn't last a month in PI.

Greg
 
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vinniedelpino

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College, for many, is a multi year extension of the teenage environment where responsibility is still on the horizon. It ls a game, with rules that can be overcome without much serious effort, and it has the negative effect of letting the individual think they can get by with minimum effort. It's Hogworts in the flesh. It also reinforces the party aspect and does very little to enhance critical thought, moral strength, or ethical beliefs. Get it all, any way you can.

If I were still hiring, paper would mean nothing to me. I did without it, paid some big prices for not being 'one of the boys', (Vietnam, for example), and never had to worry about whether I deserved anything, I just dug in and earned it; which seems to be an alien concept these days.

Being a Marine helped me face and conquer problems far more then college could have, because I knew that yes, I could die trying, but if I did, my problems were over anyway. Damned few of my HS Colleagues who went on to college can say that, or even understand it. When I'd meet them after the war, they'd see the uniform and get humble real quick. I didn't have to say or do anything to earn that respect, it came with the uniform; and if it didn't, I instantly knew who I was wasting my time on.

Today, it's a course of running over SJW hurdles, with knowledge taking back seat, or no seat at all.

I wouldn't send anyone I like to college these days. I wouldn't send anyone I didn't like, either; we already have too many of those self entitled college educated horse puppies clogging up the career paths.

Some of them would scoff because it never led the Greek life, and therefore never learned loyalty to one's frat brothers.

They wouldn't last a month in PI.

Greg
I'm with you. I know it may seem crazy, but I'd RATHER hire people without degrees than newly minted undergrads. Here's my perspective as a small employer when it comes to hiring.

1. I can hire someone who knows what they're doing for ~$100k. It'll take them a few months to settle in and get in the swing of things. After the acclimation period, they're usually fine until they get bored or find a more lucrative opportunity. Then I'm back to where I started. Either that or I have to bring them on as partner. It's generally a safe bet, but it's costly. Return on investment (ROI) is usually underwhelming and decreases over time.

2. I can hire someone without a degree for ~$35 or $40k. It'll take two or three years for them to get to the position where I don't have to constantly look over their shoulder. After the first two or three years, I'll pay them $75k and I don't have to worry about them leaving because they don't have as many opportunities as someone with a degree. They can't acquire partnership interest (as the cpa board won't allow it) and they can either start their own business as an uncredentialed accountant, or stay where they are. This generally provides the best return on investment as an employer over the long term.

3. I can hire a new grad for $50k or so. It'll still take the same two or three years for them to get to the position where I don't have to constantly look over their shoulder. After that two or three years, they're going to want significantly more money and I'm either going to have to pay them six figures, plus future raises or they're going to find another opportunity. Now I spent the last few years babysitting, burned a bunch of extra money and I'm back to where I started anyway. This has the highest probability of blowing up in my face. I incur a huge expense up front, and the likelihood of any significant return on this investment in the long run is the least likely of the three options.

I don't think I'll ever hire a new grad... and a lot of people in my position feel the same way. When you're cutting paychecks, you want to see a return , and new grads are usually less competent than someone with a year of actual experience and no education. They also feel entitled more compensation and present much more of a flight risk. Maybe this is why so many new grads are strapped with student debt they can't pay off and less than stellar job prospects? I went through school so that I could sit for the CPA exam. If I could have skipped college and studied on my own I would have. Frankly, I'm baffled as to why college was a requirement in the first place. You either know your shit or you don't. What's the difference if you learned it in a classroom or through a self study program? As an employer, I couldn't care less.

I think it's painfully clear that a massive number of new grads made a bad investment in higher education. How can we deny that given the level of support for student loan forgiveness? Good investments don't require government bailouts. It seems so cut and dry to me, yet my family and friends think I'm out of my mind for taking the position I have. The only people who agree with me are other small business owners.
 
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I Spot 4U - "Eagle Eyes"

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I won't pay for the grand kids to go to any Communist indoctrination College or a University. But would gladly pay for their Tools & Equipment to go into the Building Trades through an apprenticeship program. And a new truck for the job.

Grand-dad
 
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fx77

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Personally, when I wet to school college was $900/year, and I could earn that in construction in the summer along with going to summer school
Back in my day i hated college, filled with lefty hippies and dopers

So my goal was medicine
to that goal i studied 6hr/day and 14/day Sat and Sunday, got 99 credits in 2 years with all the basic courses necessary, along with a 4.0 and 800 MCAT's,
Technically I'm a college dropout without a Bach. degree

Managed to apply to 5 med schools (tuition then was $1900/year), and got accepted to 5/5...I learned hard work and focus
point is if you know what you want go straight for it. If you can read, you can learn just about anything.

Twain said don't let school interfere with your education

There are so many smart people here who contribute, and many of whom never went to college, which is not for everyone.

Now I hang out here with deplorables! where did I fail???? :)
 

Srikaleak

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May 11, 2018
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If looking for a financial rule for college:
  • Your student loan for your degree should not be more than 1x your starting salary after graduation.
  • If your starting salary is $30,000, your program should not cost more than $30,000.
  • If you can find a way to follow this financial rule, you should not have issues paying back your loan.
 

lariat

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Feb 11, 2018
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When I hire someone they have full knowledge that results are the number one measure of success. This is whether or not you have any experience or a relevant degree. And I do hire people for jobs that have no relevant experience so they can learn if I think they have the potential. Sometimes it works, other times I take the loss. But 90% of the time if it doesn’t work out it comes down to poor character or they really don’t like the job, which is perfectly fine and good for them as they go through life. I have a young man who recently discharged from the Army that will be coming in at an entry level with no experience but I think he will work out; I will put him with both the trades guys and the engineer to round him out. But he still has to perform at a level that is appropriate for his experience.

Not knowing everything is not a bad thing. Thinking you know it all is terrible. Having a degree is not the same as experience but if you have the degree I do expect you to perform with the mindset of someone within that discipline. If you have that and character we can go from there as a team.

Degrees matter for some things. But I have seen some very shrewd dudes that would run circles around those with papers. Example: If you are a mechanical engineer and can’t produce a drawing you need to ask yourself where you failed yourself and shore it up.
 

Greg Langelius *

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One of my Grandkids went for sound recording and engineering, went to the local state college for two years, we picked the tab up o/o pocket, and now, 5 years later, she's a disgusted bartender. She's a treasure in the rough, but the most important thing is that regardless of what her education brought, she has never had tuition debts.

She lives with us, helps us out a lot, and we're a family getting through each day together.

Like all of us, our crystal ball is cloudy. For these times, no play book exists. When the sky rains brown stuff, the family hunkers down together. Anyone who wants to tinker with that is butting at a stone wall.

Having been a year and some in Northern S. Vietnam, a lot of things for granted just aren't there. One learns that life can go on without them, and that when they come back within reach, one obtains and retains. If any luck comes out of that sort of situation, that's a big part of it.

I will never be bored. No matter how life has changed, it's always settled out better than before. That's not luck; that's ambition. Without my Wife, none of this could have been possible.

Greg
 
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DocRDS

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Don't know if it has been mentioned but iIF (engineering, doctor, etc...) your career requires a degree (and MANY do not), 2 years at a community college is a cost effective way to knock out courses at a much lower cost. (notice compters isn't on there--you can learn to program yourself--I work as a 'data engineer' -- 0 classes in computer programming)

Beyond the Ivy league (as mentioned for CONNECTIONS, not for any educational advantage), all colleges are pretty much the same. Find ones with a good department you are interested in that is a public university and get in-state tuition.

Graduate School was esstially free with a Research Assistantship.
I got all my degrees at public universities and didn't owe a cent because while everyone was out partying I studied my ass off and got a free ride.

Private School is a waste. College in general is becoming a HUGE waste

Full Disclosure, I teach (professor) part time at a Private School.