Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

[KillShot]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The only guy who should be reprimanded is the cameraman. Nuff said.</div></div>

My thoughts exactly!

 

[bassani]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 168BTHPM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another well written and informed opinion about this incident.

http://thesoldiersload.com/2012/01/16/explaining-the-inexplicable/ </div></div>



Thanks for that link. Very nice article.

I don't think it will change the mind of those people that inherently dislike the US involvement in the middle east or the military but he did a wonderful job giving the non military people an idea how a person that undergoes military training and being in war/combat affects behavior. Some people just cannot empathize. They have to experience it themselves before they can put 2 + 2 together and get 4.

 

[Mustafa]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

That was a good article, but it still misses the point that Graham keeps trying to make...It doesn't MATTER if it was a big deal or not to us, or if they do worse things to our guys, or if we can empathize with why the Marines did what they did. All that matters is the fact that it is being used to distance the local population from the counter insurgents. What these Marines did might not get anyone killed, but there is a distinct possibility that it will. I'm not saying that this video is going to drive anyone from a peaceful agrarian existance into a blood thirsty Talib out for revenge. I'm just saying that all it takes for American serivce members to die is a lowly villager making the decision to not stick his neck out to save some people he's never met. All it takes is for him to NOT go out of his way and tell the US forces about the IED in the road and people die. THAT guy is the one we are trying to influence with all our projects and "Hearts and Minds" stuff. Not the insurgents. They've made up their minds and many, not all, but many will only be convinced to stop when their hearts cease to pump blood through their viens. But the people that are sitting on the fence, that can make that decision to help or not, THOSE are the people that we are really trying to influence and those are the people that this video is going to sway.

So to recap, only the strategic effect of the video really matters. To argue anything else is missing the big picture. Do I understand why the Marines did it? YES! Do I still it was stupid? Sure! But the really dumb shit was taking video. The unforgivable shit was posting it online for the world to see and judge. That is what brings it from the Tactical "that was stupid" level and put it center stage on the Strategic "and now the world hates us (more)" level.

 

[Graham]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mustafa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...only the strategic effect of the video really matters. To argue anything else is missing the big picture.</div></div>I was going to quip that not even a dog defecates in the house unless it has no alternative, but then I was glad to see a post from someone who understands the work.

In my opinion, most of what I have read about counterinsurgency is BS. Why? Because it was written by the losers to justify the loss. That, and because no one, not even the brass who give the briefings, really know what a phrase like 'seeking synergy minus one' really means.

But that is not to say that the relevant lessons haven't already been taught somewhere and that life -or in this case military history - won't keep sending us those lessons over and over again until we get them right. Because history has a way of doing that to nations.

In 1935 Abyssinia (now Ethiopia) was one of the few north African countries which since the late 1800s had maintained its independence against the smaller colonial armies sent against it. To conquer it the Italians used, against lightly armed soldiers, no fewer than 750,000 men complete with heavy weapons, artillery, tanks, and even airpower. After the battle at Lake Ashangi in 1936, for the Italians it was 'Mission Accomplished', combat operations over and just a question of 'mopping up'.

<span style="font-style: italic">Sound familiar?</span>

Addis Ababa was occupied on May 5, 1936, and the entire country was annexed four days later. The Italians then found out that they likely needed more troops to hold the country than to take it. Certain regions remained in the hands of organized rebels who were supported by high-profile members of the rural nobility.

<span style="font-style: italic">Hmmmm.....popular local leaders with foreign financing, eh?</span>

Without nationwide organization, training, or heavy weapons of their own the insurgents began the tactics of hit-and-run ambushes and small raids. They rarely fought out in the open, for fear of being decimated.

<span style="font-style: italic">Does anyone know an enemy like that?</span>

Italy underwent a period of heavy taxation and a drop in standards of living in order to pay for the war. Haile Selassie and the major heads of Government, having fled to Great Britain, managed the insurgency from afar only to return and be installed with British help in 1942.

<span style="font-style: italic">Taxes and economic repercussions you say, huh?</span>

I am no fan of the Italian fascists, and I don't see what we are doing as in any way equivalent to Italian imperialism, but I wonder if we could learn something about counterinsurgency and the value of proper troop conduct from the failures of the Italians after the publicity of the 1937 massacres?

 

[shark0311]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

I have very little faith in the implementation of our Afghanistan strategy. It places theater level strategic importance on the backs of individual members of our combatant forces.

I believe that the strategy on its own is sound but that there have been political and operational failures that negate many of the benefits that we may have received by its adoption.

Theoretically we should have been facilitating mutually beneficial relationships between apposing tribes. Creating an environment that fosters symbiotic relationships between factions that are founded on industry, trade and education (Just my opinion).

The bottom line is that we want these people to look inward and keep looking inward while working as an outside influencing force.

While I would have liked to have seen this happen it didn't.

Instead of redeveloping our resources to succeed in this mission we focused on the five and ten yard targets. Operationally fundamental doctrinal changes were forced upon troops that neither understood nor cared to understand their importance. Politically....(I'm not going there).

Either way it is what is is. A strategy that can be sabotaged by a Lance Corporal with a camera.

'An untrained or uneducated Marine...deployed to the combat zone is a bigger threat to mission accomplishment...than the enemy' Gen. Mattis.

 

[THE SENTINEL]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Dont you know marines are trained to piss on everything.
It all starts with the Yellow foot prints.I got busted pissing
outside the chow hall in Boot Camp.I am proud to be a Marine
corps unauthorized pisser.Thats what my DI called me for 2 hrs
pt my as to death.

Semper FI

 

[konabully]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Alpha males will always be Alpha males.

 

[Graham]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: konabully</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alpha males will always be Alpha males. </div></div>I believe that was exactly Gen. Patton's argument - right before he was made to apologize.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Marines by their very nature, are trained to be killing machines, animals at their most primal soul. When a manboy is turned into a Marine, his higher levels of humanity are exchanged for his inner animal. It is this Eagle, Globe, and Anchor searing of the innermost soul that allows a Marine to survive and be successful in combat. It is this primality that allows a Marine to be victorious over his enemy and this same animal instinct, just like any other dog of war to hold the acceptable behavior of marking his kill and territory.
Sure, we can all sit here in our comfy chairs whilst those Marines fight and die each day, but me, I will not hold some office boys professionalism, nor some other's decree to my Marines. Marines are truly the pinnacle of the sharpening of primal man mixed with modern battle technology.
We care not what the world thinks, nor do we care about any offended enemy sympathisers. What they do and what we do are indeed very different. If we rampaged through the streets dragging their bodies, we would not have so many enemies. The world would indeed be a more peaceful place and Marines could be again, placed behind that red rimmed glass that states,"In case of emergency, break glass". You all wanted WAR. It is WAR you got. Vengence was screamed for on 9-11, and you all broke that glass. The American Taxpayer demanded victory at all costs. Marines were made as hard as Old Corps once again. Menboys turned into the World's Finest Fighting Force. But not one suspected that the inner soul of each Marine was fired with the Iron, flamed with the Steel, and the primal Marine was brought out of each one to be glorified in the light, set free to Locate, Close With, and DESTROY!
I for one, will not support punishment of these Marines, nor will I condone it. That is my choice, and that is because I know, at my innermost soul is still that Steel and Iron of my inner primal Marine, the Devil Dog, Tuefel Hunden, the most primal, viscious, warfighter on Earth.

 

[Pisser0321]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Graham,

Actually I believe that you are missing the point. Our conventional forces (especially the Marines) are trained to kill first and foremost. From day one every group movement is predicated upon a resounding collective "KILL" screamed at the top of every Marines lungs.

The Marine Corps has embraced the ethos of the warrior over that of the soldier. As such there is little room for respect for the dead. To us it is just meat...

If you want troops that will flawlessly execute COIN then put them through a year of training followed by an individual selection process prior to deployment.</div></div>I don't disagree. And you may have another point there... perhaps this is evidence that the majority of the work is now better left to Rangers, SF, and the Teams.

That's not to take anything away from the Marines as a Branch, but I see what you mean that not using forces correctly is not the fault of the men sent on the mission.

It's not empathy I (that we all) would expect from Marines, it's the ability to follow orders. Because this is not about the 'panties' of the uninitiated, it's about the discipline upon which the Marines pride themselves. </div></div>


Dude for a part time prison guard whos never been with any of the above or even left the porch for that matter you sure are quite the monday night armchair quarterbacker..But since this is a free country I guess your free to talk trash..But If you dont like how we fight our wars and my Marines aint civilised enough in our methods of killing of to your liking then too fucking bad..As far as the amateur comment directed towards these fine Marines, get a fucking clue as these are real combat Marine snipers that give everything to this country not a wannabe sniper who claims to be one after taking a week course. You dont like it then dont let the the door hit you on the way back to your own county.aye

 

[rogers0311]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

If you havent been to war, youll never understand war, and you will never know what actually goes on there. This is very very tame when compared to alot of things Ive seen.

 

[sharac]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Devil dogs indeed... And now Fido will be punished to show that Master doesn't condone pissing&shitting on neighbors lawn...at least not in public...

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Just realize a lot of us have been to war and don't condone this sort of behavior. I've lost friends downrange because jackoffs put their own agenda above the mission. Here's what the Marines in leadership had to say. They've seen a hell of a lot war too, and they don't agree with this bullshit either.

USMC Commandant Gen. James Amos responded thus to the Marines' behavior:
"I want to be clear and unambiguous, the behavior depicted in the video is wholly inconsistent with the high standards of conduct and warrior ethos that we have demonstrated throughout our history. Accordingly, late yesterday I requested that the Naval Criminal Investigative Service pull together a team of their very best agents and immediately assign them responsibility to thoroughly investigate every aspect of the filmed event. Additionally, I am assigning a Marine General Officer and senior attorney, both with extensive combat experience, to head up an internal Preliminary Inquiry into the matter. Once the investigation and Preliminary Inquiry are complete and the facts have been determined, then the Marine Corps will take the appropriate next steps. Rest assured that the institution of the Marine Corps will not rest until the allegations and the events surrounding them have been resolved. We remain fully committed to upholding the Geneva Convention, the Laws of War, and our own core values."

COMISAF Gen. John Allen, USMC, added his own perspective:
"These actions are in direct opposition to everything the military stands for. Such acts in no way reflect the high moral standards and values we expect of our armed forces on a daily basis."

"I assure the people of Afghanistan and the members of the coalition that there will be a thorough investigation and a full accounting of what occurred."

"Such acts violate the sanctity of the dead and are deplorable and must be condemned in the strongest manner possible. We will support the investigation of these acts in every way for a swift determination of the facts. If the investigation confirms the egregious acts depicted on the video, we support the appropriate administration of justice to hold accountable those who committed them."

I recommend everyone stay in your lane and let the investigation and subsequent punishments run their courses. These men should have known better. If they didn't, it's on their tactical leadership. If they did, then the blame is wholly theirs.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

I note the good General's lack of assigning a General Officer Attorney to the accused. Does not anyone else note this discrepency in the overall big picture as well? If we are to try these Marines in a fair and balanced court maretial then a General Officer MUST be allowed to act as Counsel to the accused, or both general officers on counsel must assign equal junior officers to insure a fair balanced arena.
We all know this Warrior ethos is something we have all subscribed to, but we also know that Marines, ENLISTED Marines have done many things in the combat arena that officers and mixed company would frown on. It has always been a part of that primal behavior that arises when primal men clash. To offer comment from an arm chair with no frame of reference to what it is to be an Enlisted Marine, is to not be able to see where the behavior or attitudes come from. I can only comment on the adreneline highs that certain places give and the after effects of that high, the scared to shit, I'm not so invulnerable, then the after I am INVICIBLE! It IS indeed a rush of things that no one outside can ever truly understand or respectfully offer comment upon. Marines, ground pounding, dirt diving Marines know this and understand it. It is a Brotherhood of teh Few, and well, it's just that way.

 

[Phil1]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reading the above comments I've got to say that some people who posted are completely missing the point: They won't admit the inherent contradiction in saying that when the enemy desecrates the bodies of our troops it is wrong, but that it's OK when we do it because our version of the same thing is mild by comparison.

This incident is not about patriotism, or ROEs, or the ability of our troops to fight. Because here the enemy was already dead. The problem isn't the perception by the enemy of what happened, it's the perception of the rest of the world. That's why the Secretary of State was on TV the same night to say how thoroughly the incident will be investigated.

To paraphrase Martin Van Creveld, the world's perception of US involvement in Iraq is that of an elephant crushing an ant - an ant that had already been stepped on, and crushed, twelve years previous. That perception does not change regarding involvement in Afghanistan.

That's why I brought-up the British experience in Northern Ireland. Because it is one of the few examples of a successful counterinsurgency campaign. Let's look at it: when dealing with an intelligent and highly-motivated insurgency a) most of the work needs to be left to indiginous forces; and b) the military, when seen as an 'occupying' force by the uninvolved population, must at all times stay within the law. That, plus selective targeting (and the proper employment of snipers) is what wore down the enemy and brought it to the table. </div></div>

Mostly right. The British started writing the book on counter insurgency in the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya from 1955-1960(the main time-frame of defeating this insurgency). Know the enemy, know the population, persuade the population to choose the correct side. Then kill the enemy or persuade him to abandon the fight.

Its unknown what the effect of this video would have in the minds of the average Pakistani madrases where the bulk of the militants get their recruits. There is a political correctness at issue, but there is also a effect that such imagery may have in the mind of a potential Islamic militant. Does it motivate jihad or cause a recruit to shrink from the possibility of a similar fate from a Infidel at a time when virgins are to be delivered.

The killing and handling of the body of Bin Laden is a prime example of how it should be done.No shrines, no imagery to be used for motivation or grandstanding. Call it P.C., call it what you may. He was dead, gone and the story was over.

 

[UncleRay]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

They are already quite peeved at us for building schools and trying to educate their women...
Guess we ought to stop that crap too..

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleRay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are already quite peeved at us for building schools and trying to educate their women...
Guess we ought to stop that crap too.. </div></div>

You opened a can of worms there. Doing projects that do not directly target local sources of instability contribute to further instability. A great report on this was just released by Tufts' Fletcher School: Projects report . In short, if we can't do civil-military operations effectively, it's best not to do them at all.

Then again, we've prosecuted the Afghan war pretty poorly overall by playing lip service to counterinsurgency strategy while focusing most efforts on kinetics. If we could have killed our way out of this war, we would have been done years ago. Doing COIN half-assed just means you've built expectations with the populace that you cannot fulfill. But this is a digression.

The Marines' pissing incident won't have a huge effect on the war, though it will likely make those Afghans that do see the video more reluctant to believe our cause to be just. Still, it makes me sick that some Marines and soldiers serving in Afghanistan may be subject to one more bomb because those guys thought they were being funny by desecrating the enemy. As Gen. Allen said, the act is far beneath the standards of the US military.

 

[Graham]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEU0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dude for a part time prison guard whos never been with any of the above or even left the porch for that matter you sure are quite the monday night armchair quarterbacker..But since this is a free country I guess your free to talk trash..But If you dont like how we fight our wars and my Marines aint civilised enough in our methods of killing of to your liking then too fucking bad..As far as the amateur comment directed towards these fine Marines, get a fucking clue as these are real combat Marine snipers that give everything to this country not a wannabe sniper who claims to be one after taking a week course. You dont like it then dont let the the door hit you on the way back to your own county.aye

</div></div>Nice first post. Too bad your research is wrong. What is probably also unknown to you is that I work with Marines and take no joy at seeing any of them suffer.

This is not a site for personal attacks: Get over it. I didn't say that the Marines in the video were amateurs, I said that their behavior was amateur (which, admittedly, might be worse). And this isn't about methods of killing because those enemy were already dead. Our likes and dislikes, yours and mine, are not what will carry the day on this one. If you are a Marine, as you claim to be, and you are in the chain of command on this one, as you imply, then do your superiors know that you condone what happened and that you publicly disagree with your commanding officers? Hopefully you are not posting from a military computer.

PS - Is that you, also calling yourself 'from SOTG', the one and the same who called my office and left the interstate threat? If so, aren't you in enough trouble with law enforcement already?

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rogers0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guy,

I want you to remember something. While you sit here on a website built around "snipers" there are Marine Scout Snipers actually in afghanistan KILLING taliban. I find it pretty funny that you think you have the experience/knowledge to judge anything that that team did. I may know some of the guys in that video, and I can tell you that whatever credentials you think you might have, you dont rate to judge them. Do a little research on that particular Scout Sniper platoon. You sound like a gatherer, so I wouldnt expect you to understand the mentalities of hunters, but you probably should keep your mouth shut about things you know absolutely NOTHING about. </div></div>

That is a Marine Scout/Sniper team pissing on the dead Taliban, and they are likely the ones who shot them. Since the rules are you don't piss on another man's kill, i am confident they got them.
Now whatkind of Administration would take a stance that it is OK, no, encouraged and demanded, that these highly trained, motivated, selected volunteers would be commended for putting carefully placed 7.62 or .50 Match bullets into their heads and bodies, and then be disciplined, at all, for pissing on the corpses of those barbaric savages.
I wish we had a President who would invite them to the White House for beer and to hear their combat experiences. But that's not gonna happen this year.
We caught shit for burning corpses, and even for dumping Bin laden in the ocean and not providing him with a proper Muslim funeral, and shrine.
I hope the Corps reminds guys not to take dumb videos, like this or the guy throwing the puppy off a cliff, and leaves it at that. They don't deserve any official reprimand or punishment. They deserve promotions and appreciation.
One Shot, One Kill, No Remorse.
Hillary Clinton and Leon Panetta are in positions to comment, but no qualified to.
The Taliban and Al Qaeda and all America hating muslims got no credibility to complain, considering what they do. Only this administration and the Leftist America hating liberal democrats would act like this matters.
In WW II guys would mail home japanese skulls to their girlfriends from the Pacific. Now we make it a big deal because somebody puts a cigarette in a dead enemy's mouth and lean him up against a rock and take pictures with him.
We should stick a WP grenade up their asses,IMHO.

 

[Mustafa]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Once again, the point is completely missed.

IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THE ACT! ALL THAT MATTERS IS STRATEGIC EFFECT!

If you think the guys deserve a high five for shooting, and then pissing on the Taliban in question...Okay! That is your opinion!
What makes this whole thing such a big deal isn't really that Marines would pee on a dead dude, it is that they would record the event and put it where the world could see. THAT is the difference between a Marine in WWII sending home shrunken heads and this. The Marines in WWII didn't take video of themselves with the shrunken heads and send it to the Japanese media! If they hadn't posted the video, no one would be having this discussion.

If it makes you feel better to think of it this way, those Marines are being punished for being too stupid to realize what GOD AWFUL idea it was to allow themselves to be taped, and then post the video on the internet, not for actually pissing on the dead dudes. In reality, that is much more in line with the truth.

And the Marines are trained and paid to carefully place rounds on target. They are not trained and paid to piss on dead people.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

We didn't care what the Japanese thought about guys sending home skullsto their girlfriends.In fact,as i recall Life magazine had a picture of a girl supposedly writing he man a letter with her gift skull grinning on the desk beside her!
The only people really upset about this hate us anyway, and that includes this Administration because they don't vote for Democrat Presidents, with good reason.
it was dumb to put it online.I suspect somebody sent it to a friend who spread it around.
But so what? That's the least they should have to worry about. We should be feeding the corpses to dogs, or burning them. Upsetting our enemies is a good thing.What'sthe worst that will happen? They already take every opportunity to murder aybody of a different religion anyway.These are the guys who throw acid in little girls faces. The are savages.If anybody wants to stick his head up and complain we can shoot it off. We aren'tradicalizing anybody. They already are.

 

[Mustafa]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Trust me. I KNOW these are the dudes that throw acid in little girls faces. I've met them. I've talked to them. They are some horribly despicable people. The problem is, there are a lot of folks over there that aren't bad folks. In fact, there are a lot of good people there. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is that good men do nothing." We are trying to get those "good men" that are there to DO something. That is VERY difficult because we are so far removed from them. The way we patrol, the way we garrison, the way our aid is distributed, the way we fight, and the way we communicate with the people keeps us distant. That makes it easier for them to "do nothing." When they see highly publicized, dumb shit like this, we make it very easy for them to just look the other way when the IED is planted, and ignore us as we drive right down the road towards it.

I guess my point is, we aren't mad about this because we might have hurt the Taliban's feelings, we are mad because this further distances the fence sitters that can really sway things one way or the other.

And yeah, you are probably dead nuts on with the friend it got sent to posting it. I've had that happen myself. Luckily it wasn't a negative video, but just because I give you a copy, doesn't mean I want you to post it on Youtube! Lesson learned! Luckily without too much pain in my case...I fear those Marines are not going to fare well.

 

[Phil1]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Afghan soldier 'killed French troops over US abuse video'
An Afghan soldier who shot dead four French troops has said he did it because of a recent video showing US Marines urinating on the dead bodies of Taliban insurgents, security sources said.
"During the initial interrogations by French soldiers, he told them he did it because of the video in which American soldiers were urinating on bodies," an Afghan army officer said.

The report was backed by an intelligence source and another with access to information from the Afghan ministry of defence, both of whom requested anonymity.

"In his initial confessions, he said that he was strongly motivated to kill the soldiers when he saw the video of a foreign soldiers urinating on Afghan corpses," the intelligence source said.

French Defence Minister Gerard Longuet said during a visit to Kabul at the weekend that he had been told the soldier who killed the four soldiers and wounded 15 others was a Taliban infiltrator.

But President Hamid Karzai did not make the same accusation in a statement Sunday, describing the attack as "an isolated and individual action".

The video, posted online earlier this month, showed four US soldiers urinating on three bloodied corpses, and one of the men, apparently aware he was being filmed, saying: "Have a great day, buddy," referring to one of the dead.

The images conjured up previous abuses committed by US troops during the decade-long war and top US officials scrambled to condemn the soldiers.

A spokesman for the US embassy in Kabul, Gavin Sundwall, said: "Our deepest condolences go out to France and the families of the soldiers who lost their lives in this tragic incident.

"The US embassy strongly condemns the actions depicted in the recent video which appears to show members of the US military committing disrespectful acts with the corpses of insurgents.

"Such actions are reprehensible, dishonour the sacrifices of our military and the American people, and violate the core values of both our societies.

"The Department of Defense has announced an investigation which will urgently determine the facts, and will ensure the punishment for those found guilty of wrongdoing."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...buse-video.html

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

It is absurd that some ANA private was enraged by a video showing marines pissing on the same guys he is fighting, and are trying to kill him, and turned his weapon on some Frogs. I doubt the guy even saw it. Almost all ANA are illiterate and broke.
These things happen routinely. It could be something as simple as somebody reprimanding him for selling his sleeping bag, again, or showing up for duty stoned, again, or his commanding officer stole his pay, again. These are not highly responsible or trustworthy people and it doesn't take much,if anything, to cause them to behave violently and trecherously.They do it by nature.
Blaming America is a common tactic. Who would have seen that coming?
The only people upset by this hate the American Military and oppose what we (were) trying to do,until Obama came along.
But don't worry,cause he'll have allour troops out by next December, so the Taliban can take over again.
If Obama had any guts he would forbid the growing of Opium and cut off the money to the Enemy. No compensation.Just forbid it, and burn or poison the crop. They can grow food,or starve.

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is absurd that some ANA private was enraged by a video showing marines pissing on the same guys he is fighting, and are trying to kill him, and turned his weapon on some Frogs. I doubt the guy even saw it. Almost all ANA are illiterate and broke....

The only people upset by this hate the American Military and oppose what we (were) trying to do,until Obama came along.
But don't worry,cause he'll have allour troops out by next December, so the Taliban can take over again.
If Obama had any guts he would forbid the growing of Opium and cut off the money to the Enemy. No compensation.Just forbid it, and burn or poison the crop. They can grow food,or starve. </div></div>

You outright dismiss the validity of the story, and then make the silly point about "illiterate and broke" Afghans, as if you need to speak English to GET what's happening in the video.

Up next is your "the only people upset by this hate the American Military" drivel in attempt to marginalize any honest criticism of indefensible behavior.

Open your eyes and realize that critics of this incident aren't all libs, there's a helluva lot of true conservatives like myself who take great exception to this deal.

As for letting the Afghan's starve if they can't feed themselves, and for stopping opium production, you clearly haven't taken a closer look at WHY we're still in Afghanistan.

 

[Hi Speed]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

The only thing that would keep me from pissing on the enemy is if they were on fire. We don't belong there anymore, anyway. Our enemy is right here.

 

[Graham]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mustafa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trust me. I KNOW these are the dudes that throw acid in little girls faces. I've met them. I've talked to them. They are some horribly despicable people. The problem is, there are a lot of folks over there that aren't bad folks. In fact, there are a lot of good people there. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is that good men do nothing." We are trying to get those "good men" that are there to DO something. That is VERY difficult because we are so far removed from them. The way we patrol, the way we garrison, the way our aid is distributed, the way we fight, and the way we communicate with the people keeps us distant. That makes it easier for them to "do nothing." When they see highly publicized, dumb shit like this, we make it very easy for them to just look the other way when the IED is planted, and ignore us as we drive right down the road towards it.

I guess my point is, we aren't mad about this because we might have hurt the Taliban's feelings, we are mad because this further distances the fence sitters that can really sway things one way or the other.</div></div>Exactly.

Soldiers and Marines who complain about the times and the politics having changed should take the time to draw the obvious conclusion from what they are saying, about the state of their leadership at the NCO level: In WW II there was no media to scrutinize Hitler's occupation troops. Defiance by anyone was punished by death. In Belgium, on the way to Antwerp, the Nazis executed everyone they could catch - women and children included. Today it's the people who complain about scrutiny, not the ones who punish war crimes, that are 'blaming America' by using 'democracy' and 'media' as an excuse for mission failure.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's why the Secretary of State was on TV the same night to say how thoroughly the incident will be investigated.



</div></div>
The SecState is a leather jacket wearing wellsley graduated Military hating leftist radical since the 1960's. Condemning the actions of US military is something she has lots of experience with. She has no trouble doing it. It fits her perception.If she had perspective she would have said "So what? Who cares?" That's what you get for helping Al Qaeda, a bullet in the brain and piss on your corpse. Ish Allah, motherfuckers!"

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Boot Camp training doesn't wipe out common sese and values as you imply. You are portraying marines as brainwashed killers on command, and nothing is further from the truth. They do know right from wrong. That isn't taken from them. They just understand who the enemy is, and what they deserve.

And no Marine has a 35 GT score. I enlisted in 79 and the guy I went on the Buddy System with had a 70 and needed a waiver for that.They wanted me, with a 137, so he got it quick. Standards are higher now, because of technical demands. Even for Infantry a 8th grade reading level doesn't cut it. a 35 is a drooling idiot who shits his diaper. You should know better than to make a statement like that. 80 is the minimum for Infantry,and a 105 for Recon. 115 will get you the most technical jobs, and 120 a offer for MCEP,the enlisted commissioning program that will get you a all expense paid trip to college and a commission.
You get much over 120 you get offer to the Naval Academy Prep School (NAPS), and then a appointment there.
The marines require a HS diploma now. I don't think they give waivers for that. Even the Army only takes a small % without one.

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

There's no swaying to worry about, nearly 10 years at war have cast the die.

The majority of Americans aren't "fence sitters" anymore, they're decidedly against continuing these wars, and all the polls show it.

It might not be a popular sentiment around here, but most folks now realize the folly in these crusades.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Mostly right. The British started writing the book on counter insurgency in the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya from 1955-1960(the main time-frame of defeating this insurgency). Know the enemy, know the population, persuade the population to choose the correct side. Then kill the enemy or persuade him to abandon the fight.

</div></div>
The MauMaus,including Obama's grandfather, chased the Brits out of Kenya. Maybe you missed that.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[Up next is your "the only people upset by this hate the American Military" drivel in attempt to marginalize any honest criticism of indefensible behavior.

Open your eyes and realize that critics of this incident aren't all libs, there's a helluva lot of true conservatives like myself who take great exception to this deal.

</div></div>
I should have said Libs and pussies.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THE SENTINEL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Dont you know marines are trained to piss on everything.
It all starts with the Yellow foot prints.I got busted pissing
outside the chow hall in Boot Camp.I am proud to be a Marine
corps unauthorized pisser.Thats what my DI called me for 2 hrs
pt my as to death.

Semper FI </div></div>
Did they still have the Rose Garden?

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[Up next is your "the only people upset by this hate the American Military" drivel in attempt to marginalize any honest criticism of indefensible behavior.

Open your eyes and realize that critics of this incident aren't all libs, there's a helluva lot of true conservatives like myself who take great exception to this deal.

</div></div>
I should have said Libs and pussies. </div></div>


Nice attempt at distraction, but try and stay on point.

You can't acknowledge the reality that CONSERVATIVES like myself aren't blind cheerleaders for endless crusading.

"Pussies" pretend like they're accomplishing something, while ignoring the facts, such as we've pizzed away TRILLIONS waging war with no goal.

When the Taliban returns to power (NEWSFLASH: we're ALREADY negotiating with Mullah Omar), you can explain how "manly" it was to waste our treasure and troops to return the Taliban to power.

Have the intellectual honesty to OWN the success and failures of these campaigns instead of the childish name calling you've resorted to.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Shark0311Graham,

Actually I believe that you are missing the point. Our conventional forces (especially the Marines) are trained to kill first and foremost. From day one every group movement is predicated upon a resounding collective "KILL" screamed at the top of every Marines lungs.

.

Marine Corps infantry battalions are comprised of a group of young men with gt scores ranging from 35 - 135, from all walks of life, trained to close with and destroy the enemy. They are very good at this..


</div></div>

Boot Camp training doesn't wipe out common sese and values as you imply. You are portraying marines as brainwashed killers on command, and nothing is further from the truth. They do know right from wrong. That isn't taken from them. They just understand who the enemy is, and what they deserve.

And no Marine has a 35 GT score. I enlisted in 79 and the guy I went on the Buddy System with had a 70 and needed a waiver for that.They wanted me, with a 137, so he got it quick. Standards are higher now, because of technical demands. Even for Infantry a 8th grade reading level doesn't cut it. a 35 is a drooling idiot who shits his diaper. You should know better than to make a statement like that. 80 is the minimum for Infantry,and a 105 for Recon. 115 will get you the most technical jobs, and 120 a offer for MCEP,the enlisted commissioning program that will get you a all expense paid trip to college and a commission.
You get much over 120 you get offer to the Naval Academy Prep School (NAPS), and then a appointment there.
The marines require a HS diploma now. I don't think they give waivers for that. Even the Army only takes a small % without one.</div></div>

I apologize you need a 32 on the AFQT, my bad I confused the two.

For Recon the gt score minimum is 105 and is waiver-able to 90.
I had a 123 and I knew at least two 03's that had a 135 and a 134 respectively. No one was offered a commission or trip to the Naval Academy, so stop talking out of your ass. Being eligible for a program and being offered something are entirely different.

After experiencing prolonged combat you loose touch with your emotions and little things like dead bodies really don't mean anything to you. Values? The only thing I valued was threat or no threat. If threat = kill.

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Look, I totally understand (hate), but those Marines inderectly made every Marine and US citizen look like immature undisciplined boys.

Discipline is doing the absolute right thing even when no one is watching

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

I have no idea how one bad apple, or a couple of them, can be cause to blame the whole bunch of good ones. Seriously...how many Americans fought in Iraq and Afghanistan without doing this shit?

And that goes for both the ANA, and this TALIBAN infiltrator who killed 4 French soldiers, (whose government actually ended up helping us with this, so America could be able to concentrate on a different area, thus saving us some manpower, and possibly giving some units some more time at home, and I THANK them for it) just because he saw his TALIBAN buddies getting a golden shower.

I've been trying to stay out of this topic for some time now, but the bullshit level has reached near epic proportions, and needs to be burned off with a serious fucking flamethrower.

I've lost good friends in both Iraq, and Afghanistan, and a couple of them have lost body parts as well, and the thought of an increase in ferocity, and more lethal, and sinister tactics from this really pisses me off. This whole idea of pissing on them was fucking stupid. All it did was escalate the dam war that we're fighting by giving the fucking Taliban and the fucking Al-Qaeda a goddamn propaganda tool to use against use against use when they recruit from their the local populace or their bullshit madrassas(the fundamentalist Islamic schools that are run by the Wahabbis).

They shot the fuckers, and they fucking killed the fuckers. They fucking won. Unbuttoning your dingle dangle, and letting loose a golden rainbow is against what EVERY American serviceman and woman agreed apon when they signed on the damn dotted line, held up their hand, and swore to defend and uphold the Constitution, and abide by the UCMJ Articles, and the General Orders, the ROEs, and the orders given to them by their commanding officers. These are the same damn rules that make it possible for asswipes to be prosecuted for fratricide, and idiots who go and dismember civilians, and wear their body parts as jewelry, to go to Leavenworth.

By the way, the first branch of the Army that was created, was the Judge Advocate General Corps.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I had a 123 and I knew at least two 03's that had a 135 and a 134 respectively. No one was offered a commission or trip to the Naval Academy, so stop talking out of your ass. Being eligible for a program and being offered something are entirely different.


</div></div>
I was offered NAPS,along with one other guy, in Boot Camp, after 7 weeks. I was solicited for MECP later. I din't ask. They came to me. If they are interested in you I am sure they still do. The GT score was required, but not the only reason. I don't know how the score is tabulated now compared to my time. They may have changed it like the SAT.
All this touchy feely shitabout dead non-uniformed enemy combatants is bullshit. You could stand them against a wall and execute them, according to the Geneva Convention. Nobody driving a Tank or Amtrack is gonna swerve to avoidrunning one over, dead or alive. Since the ground is so hard we should bring back flamethrows, give them a "wet shot" to soak them, and then light them up. Rotting bodies are a hazard to health, because they feed the flies. And the hajis hate it when their martyrs are burned. Good. Fuck them. All this sensitivity to enemy dead in civilian cloths pisses me off. People need to keep their perspective. Wetake care of our own. We shouldn't care what kinda noise somebodymakes in, or to, the press. And listening to Hillary or panetta about these this is assine. Airwing Amos isn't worthy of attention. he is a Political, not a Combat marine. Charlie Krulak would have straightened things out. You destroy the enemy or his will to resist, and don't worry about his "feelings". You should know that. Somebody wants to take up arms against the Marines they should know the consequences, and getting shot and then pissed on is the least of it. I don't give a fuck how many we kill, or with what. i don't care what we do with the enemy dead. Pile them motherfuckers up and use them to fill in the holes in the road from their IEDs. Leave them for the dogs. Bobbytrap the corpses. Fuck them. Save the feelings for people who deserve it.
Those guys aren't "Bad Apples". They are Marine Scout/Snipers and I hope they get no discipline whatsoever, and get to go back and shoot, and piss on, as many of those savages as possible before Obama quits and declares failure. I am sorry for any distress this nonsense has caused to those motivated and valuable Marines. I know who's side I am on,and it'snot on the side of the dead hajis. Weshould kill them,and their families,and their friends,and burn their fucking houses down.That will discourage others, not apologizing.They are laughing at us over this bullshit. They see us as weak.
You know how we used to actually win a war?We bombed and nuked their cities,and civilians, and starved and fried their families. Then they gave up unconditionally.

 

[sharac]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

Either you're intentionally provoking and playing around or you're seriously disturbed (on more than just one level). You know the difference between you and Taliban or any other shitforbrains psycho killer? None what so ever you just have/had a fortune to be on the side with planes and tech and some decent people to keep you in check...

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I had a 123 and I knew at least two 03's that had a 135 and a 134 respectively. No one was offered a commission or trip to the Naval Academy, so stop talking out of your ass. Being eligible for a program and being offered something are entirely different.


</div></div>
I was offered NAPS,along with one other guy, in Boot Camp, after 7 weeks. I was solicited for MECP later. I din't ask. They came to me. If they are interested in you I am sure they still do. The GT score was required, but not the only reason. I don't know how the score is tabulated now compared to my time. They may have changed it like the SAT.
All this touchy feely shitabout dead non-uniformed enemy combatants is bullshit. You could stand them against a wall and execute them, according to the Geneva Convention. Nobody driving a Tank or Amtrack is gonna swerve to avoidrunning one over, dead or alive. Since the ground is so hard we should bring back flamethrows, give them a "wet shot" to soak them, and then light them up. Rotting bodies are a hazard to health, because they feed the flies. And the hajis hate it when their martyrs are burned. Good. Fuck them. All this sensitivity to enemy dead in civilian cloths pisses me off. People need to keep their perspective. Wetake care of our own. We shouldn't care what kinda noise somebodymakes in, or to, the press. And listening to Hillary or panetta about these this is assine. Airwing Amos isn't worthy of attention. he is a Political, not a Combat marine. Charlie Krulak would have straightened things out. You destroy the enemy or his will to resist, and don't worry about his "feelings". You should know that. Somebody wants to take up arms against the Marines they should know the consequences, and getting shot and then pissed on is the least of it. I don't give a fuck how many we kill, or with what. i don't care what we do with the enemy dead. Pile them motherfuckers up and use them to fill in the holes in the road from their IEDs. Leave them for the dogs. Bobbytrap the corpses. Fuck them. Save the feelings for people who deserve it.
Those guys aren't "Bad Apples". They are Marine Scout/Snipers and I hope they get no discipline whatsoever, and get to go back and shoot, and piss on, as many of those savages as possible before Obama quits and declares failure. I am sorry for any distress this nonsense has caused to those motivated and valuable Marines. I know who's side I am on,and it'snot on the side of the dead hajis. Weshould kill them,and their families,and their friends,and burn their fucking houses down.That will discourage others, not apologizing.They are laughing at us over this bullshit. They see us as weak.
You know how we used to actually win a war?We bombed and nuked their cities,and civilians, and starved and fried their families. Then they gave up unconditionally.

</div></div> WOW I’m almost speechless. Times change, since WWII all Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen fight two conflicts any time the US exports violence in order to maintain our way of life. The first war is an information based war fought in the media and the other is mortal combat against our enemy. Anyone signing up that is unable to adapt needs to find a new job, plain and simple.
Not to mention the toxic command climate that fostered this type of behavior as acceptable will be punished two levels up. The leaders of this outfit will be reprimanded and their careers are over for the unbelievably poor discipline, lack of sound judgment, unprofessional, rookie, childish and ultimately selfish behavior of the few.
Now I have no doubt that these Marines are proficient and ultimately patriotic, but the depth of their patriotism is in serious question. A professional warrior would never feel the need to urinate on the fallen.

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Either you're intentionally provoking and playing around or you're seriously disturbed (on more than just one level). </div></div>

That last post is borderline psychotic, the hate and anger he's unable to suppress is outright disturbing.

I honestly hope the guy gets some help.

 

[Graham]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

I agree with those here who say that the Marines do a very good job of using violence as a blunt instrument. They, as well as other units from other branches, performed exceptionally well in Fallujah and elsewhere. And one can't blame some enlisted Marines for being confused. An example:

In April of 2004 the Marines were told to assault Fallujah. They pounded it from the air, then went in on the ground, only to be told to stop and go no further after the higher-ups decided that too many were getting hurt. A cease-fire was negotiated in which the US agreed not to attack provided the militias didn't attack either.

That agreement held for less than a week, after which for the next month the US Command threatened to attack, then backed off, then treatened again, then backed off again... until in November they let loose with heavy weapons and began to turn parts of the city into large piles of rubble. Of course, by that time all civilians had been evacuated and the majority of the terrorists had lost heart and fled. Regardless, like the Clinton Adminsitration did in the 1990's, the largest and most powerful military machine in the world was again relegated to 'pounding sand' (or in this case to making rubble).

Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on which side you are on) a few hard-core martyrs stayed to fight and they were dispatched as fast as they could show themselves by the few who un-assed themselves from vehicles and fought (bravely and well) from the ground. But no sooner were a few thousand militiamen killed than the Marines were again told to put the brakes on - and instead help provide humanitarian aid and to start rebuilding what they had destroyed. What??!! No matter, though, because in December they were told to stop rebuilding and start pounding the city again.

It reminds one of the tank battle at 73 Easting, in 1991, when tank commanders were told to crawl forward at 2mph thereby ceding the tactical advantage to the defending Iraqi forces.

In either case, can we blame NCOs and junior officers whose unofficial mission becomes to get their people in, and out, of whatever is the firefight du jour with as few casualties as possible?

But this ain't 2004, and Afghanistan ain't Iraq.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

The difference here is I know who the enemy is, and treat him as such. There will be no shaking hands after a boxing match. These guys hate us, and always will. This war against the Political Ideology of Islam, as they are directed in the Quran and other, later written works, is to slaughter and enslave everybody. These are Afghans, with who murder and banditry is alive and well now as 1000 years ago. I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to those Scout/Snipers as a post-combat decompression. They are still worked up on adrenelin, and the satisfaction of winning in ruthless mortal combat, and the joy of still being alive and intact.
A proper answer to the video is to justsay if those Taliban assholes didn't want to get pissed on they shouldn't have lay down and died in the area designated as the latrine by the unit Field Hygiene Officer.
Then again, maybe they like that Golden Shower shit. They are sexual freaks, who rape little boys, girls, donkeys, and goats. Have you seen those videos?
I lost 241 fellows to a Muslim Terrorist Truck Bomb. The French got hitat the same time in a coordinated attack and lost 58 dead. Total wounded for both was 75. I am still bitter about that.
The only thing these savages understand is total force. They need to know the consequences of their actions. Getting pissed on after death is the least of it they should expect, and I am not going to wail and shreik and tear my cloths about this.
This war against the Islamic Ideology of conquest and domination is one we likely will never win, but we surely can lose. They have a 1000 year plan to rape and convert our daughters, and puta Mosque on Ground Zero. We can't sustain a low intensity war for a decade. when itcomes to silly shit like the video, I keep my perspective. They have been murdering us since the 1960's, long before this nonsense. They don't need a reason or justification. They have the Quran telling them to. And their petty leaders have a tremendous excess of unmarriagable men to get rid of because they are competition for the 9 year old brides.

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They have a 1000 year plan to rape and convert our daughters, and puta Mosque on Ground Zero. We can't sustain a low intensity war for a decade. when itcomes to silly shit like the video, I keep my perspective. </div></div>

In your experience, does the raping of daughters typically happen before or after they're converted to Islam?

"Perspective" is the one thing you've obviously lost.

Your Islamophobia is tangible, and understandable given what you've experienced, but it's still NO excuse to dehumanize people like you've done.

Contrary your nonsense, the majority of Arabs, Persians and Afghans have no interest in raping your daughter, uncle or donkey.

I'm 100% serious when I say I hope you get some help with the anger, it's eating you alive and a dangerous way to live one's life.

 

[Mustafa]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

I wouldn't be so quick about calling the donkey safe just yet Guy...

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

I got no problem with them doing it. You cannot fight a war with gloves on, and expect to win. You cannot prosecute your soldiers when innocent people get killed. Innocent people KNEW who the taliban were and did nothing to help.
(Pertinent to the news of no jail time for the Marine).

So I got no problem with popping their eyes out and feeding them to the dogs or whatever.

I got a problem with them uploading it to youtube and provoking the world to hate us more.

BECAUSE - some libtard out there will see it and MAKE it an incident.

Now, were the USMC and/or government to say "War is hell big deal" I wouldn't care either but it's not - some libtard is always looking for a career motivational tool and this could just be one.

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

There is a huge difference between total war and winning versus desecrating the dead. There is no need to shake someone’s hand after a victory just like there is no need to spit on the loser of the contest.
So, let’s put this into context, if Muhammad Ali ever spit or pissed on one of his opponents that he knocked out during one of his heavyweight title matches his image would be forever tarnished.
The issue here is image, like it or not. The other underlying issue is that if combat stress is routinely used as an excuse for this kind of behavior or society and armed services is headed for a serious decline. Folks that are exposed to combat and react in this manner need to be culled out of the service and given counseling. Because, no matter how good they are at their job, they do not deal with stress well and will always be a liability.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

The Taliban, and the Muj who come from Britian, Germany,France, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Egypt, Iran, and pakistan aren'tradicalized by some silly video. They get that daily at home and school. "Islamophobia" is a term created by Islamist to demonize those in the West who oppose their agenda of conquest and domination. It doesn't make me feel guilty of shit. I hate Islamists as much as a Marine from WW Ii in the Pacific hated Japs until the day he died, with good reason.
I give our troops, and especially our Marine Scout/Snipers, a lot of liberty and confidence.these guys aren't raping women or stringing ears on necklaces. They aren't "slaughtering" our bound enemy prisoners and sawing their heads off, as the "Holy Teachings" of our enemies commands them to. Anybody who wants to take up arms against our marines is a Walking Dead as far as I'm concerned. There is a limit on my sympathy, and I have none at all for our Islamist enemies and their families and neighbors, any more than I do for the people in Dresden, or Hamburg,or Tokyo, or Hiroshima. When the Islamists set off a car bomb in a market in Kabul or Mosul and they slaughter womone and children and innocent men who were just going about their business then it's "God's Will", "Ish Allah". They are martyrs in Paradise too.
I save my sympathy and attention for our people and our guys. It is "us or them". Paul Tibbets didn't shed any tears about dropping that bomb, and America cheered when they heard that Japan surrendered because of them, knowing we wouldn't have any more casualties from another invasion.
i will not shed any tears, or in any way condemn, what those Marines did. They weren't making Pimp Cups out of their skulls, but if they did I want a drink from that chalice.
War is dirty business, and i will cry and get angry about our guys who get blow to bits by IEDs. I don'tgive a shit about a nonuniformed enemy combatant.
There is no Broadband in Bumfuck Afghanistan. Nobody is gonna do anything they weren't already gonna do over this.
When we finally nuke Iran I won't shed any tears for anybody there either. Same for Pakistan. Same for Egypt.
America, Fuck Yea!

One Shot, One Kill, No Remorse.

And by the way, Muhammed Ali had nothing good to say about his opponents, before or after. he was "popular"because he was a talented boxer who fit right in with the hate America sentinent of the time. Fuck him too.

Seems 9/11 wasn't enough to get some people's attention. Maybe when we have a Beslan or Mumbai here, or they blow up some trains and buses, then people will reconsider.
Or they will blame the Jews like Ron Paul.

Do I hate Islamists? Fuck yea, with good reason. I know who they are, and they gave me 241 reasons, on October 23, 1983. I haven't changed my mind since.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Taliban,(Blah Blah Blah, Bullshit, More Shit, Piled High and Deeper) changed my mind since. ***This quote has been edited to spare Hide members from more xenophobic, hate mongering retardation***
</div></div>

 

[Graham]

Re: Congressman Allen West Comments on the Marines....

I've never claimed to be the smartest guy on this Site, but even I can feel the IQ in the room drop every time the discussion devolves into 'Who do you like better: the Marines or the Taliban'?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no Broadband in Bumfuck Afghanistan.</div></div>But there is. When you talk to the enemy (or, if you are a Marine, if you should happen to talk to them before you kill them

) you will find that most have a distorted view of US forces and what will be done to them if they get caught. This is because videos like this one are used to lie to recruits.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mustafa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't be so quick about calling the donkey safe just yet Guy... </div></div>Agreed. And just because I am being honest and impartial about the facts doesn't mean that you'll hear any love for the enemy from me.