Which one are you going to get?
- Thread starter A-Rob
- Start date
American
I've checked with several of the wholesaler/jobber distributors that carry CZ stuff, none of them have any of the 457s in stock right now. Even checked with a friend who works for CZ - he tells me I'm 2-3 weeks late to the party - they had quite a few of both American & MTRs at CZ's KC headquarters that recently. Looks like I'm waiting on the next shipment...
I’m looking at the “at one Boyd” model 457. Anyone have thoughts? Comes in 16.5” and 24” barrel. What is ideal length for out to 200 years? Do I lose much w 16.5” ballistically? Thanks
Ballistically speaking, I was under the understanding that 22lr hits its max velocity under 16" so anything more than that only slows the bullet down.
thanks, i did a few searches and this seems to be the consensus. not sure why the 24" model would be appealing. the compactness of the 16"5 on the Boyd stock seems to make for a great NRL22 rifle with good glass.
I think this may be some sort of internet tribal knowledge that gets repeated over and over.
I'd like to see data before I believe anything
Please bring some added data to the table!
If you want a good read on 22 lr then I would highly recommend Modern Advancement in Long Range Shooting Vol. 2. It has a whole chapter on 22 lr and a section that talks about muzzle velocity compared to barrel length. While it is true that not all ammo hits their terminal velocity at 16.5" for some there is minimal gain with added barrel length. This is even more prominent when considering standard velocity ammo that many target shooters use. Bryan found an average slope relationship of muzzle velocity in fps to barrel in inches as 1.17 fps per 1 inch across all 22 lr ammo.
I believe this "internet tribal knowledge", http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html, may also back the point that I am making.
Again, please bring your data to the table instead of asking for someone else to do the research for you...
@BlackFenix , your confusing ballistic efficiency for "better"
Even if I was a scope only (disregaurding sight radius for irons) shooter all my "serious" match 22's would have barrels over 26", 2 reasons
1. Balance
2. Quality tubes of a longer length tend to have smaller ES in velocity
On a prs "trainer" going short may look "tactical" but unless your centerfire is equally stubby you aren't taking full advantage of what you could be learning while getting trigger time
Even if I was a scope only (disregaurding sight radius for irons) shooter all my "serious" match 22's would have barrels over 26", 2 reasons
1. Balance
2. Quality tubes of a longer length tend to have smaller ES in velocity
On a prs "trainer" going short may look "tactical" but unless your centerfire is equally stubby you aren't taking full advantage of what you could be learning while getting trigger time
I think the correct statement is not accuracy or velocity, but rather "I want a rifle where the chosen load/round burns all of its powder and achieves peak velocity, 1" from the end of the barrel". That's where (theoretically, all things being equal) accuracy and velocity intersect IMHO.
sure did. figured as much from the CZ previews as well when they were describing the stock, it sounded like a modified prs1 vs the t4 they were using for the 455 VPT. i'm really excited about this model. just wish that it came with the adjustable cheek piece
concerned though with the way robert worded it in the post, they they WILL be sending them to CZ for use on the 457. meaning they haven't sent them out yet and that means we are looking at later on in the year before we start seeing the 457 VPT on the streets. patience is not a virtue i possess in large amounts.
And this is why I'll just get the tacticool model and mod that. No cheek riser is a huge oversight imo.
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Obviously, there is a reason that they are putting out 2 length and reasons why certain people prefer the shorter or longer length. I have no confusion about "better" or the significance of ballistic efficiency.
that's a really good point.
but i'm also ready to give them my money now. as i said above, patience isn't one of my best virtues...
Dont know how long this has been up, curious what street price will be with around 1100 msrp
https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-457-varmint-precision-trainer-camo/
https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-457-varmint-precision-trainer-camo/
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Yep which is why I would pass on the Manners and get the 457 MTR. A wood stock like that is something just about every stockmaker can add an adjustable comb to. Finding someone that will work on fiberglass, let alone carbon fiber, is a giant PITA.
Joe Ducos aka stockdoc will make some cash from this no doubt but it is hard to fault the manufacturer from keeping the price point down. An adjustable model is about $150 more than a manners w/o terry cross's excellent hardware and CZ sold lots of 455 vpt's without them, so why should they add something that pushes the cost that much closer to a vudoo?
Don't take this as I think adjustable cheeckpeices are frivolous- they are my preference, I just see their logic.
That would be an adj. stock done for the price of the hardware.
And if it don't shoot, you can plug in another barrel.
It would sell.
And if it don't shoot, you can plug in another barrel.
It would sell.
Current prices off website (retail)
Ms-t 445, ms-ta 595,
MST2 515 MST2a 655
MST4 515, MST4a 655
Seems "about $150" to me not sure on your point, as tacking on $150 to something with a msrp of $1144 isnt wise considering its competition above and below. Again if not having it is a dealbreaker and you "gotta have one" Ducos is really reasonable on labor/ hardware and Cz will sell the 447 vpt at least as good as the 455 vpt w/o the hardware...
the cheek piece is definitely not a deal breaker for me. and i get where they are trying to be price point wise. i've heard rumors of below a grand for a street price. if its up over a grand i may just saw screw it and go all in on a vudoo in a manners
Hi guys, Read a few of the post in this thread and I thought I would chime in.
The factory cz prs1 stocks where designed so that the same light weight cheek we offer on the mcs-CS and CS2 stocks use can be retrofitted if the customer felt it was needed. Although the prs1cz stock looks the same as the big bore stock, i actually made it with about a .200 inch higher check. We tried to keep the overal cost down while still hopefully fitting most guys. The light weight cheek we offer is not as fully adjustable as our standard kmw hardware that we put in the full size standard prs1 stocks but it does the job. Thank you
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So, uh, that's another 2k. I have a Manners I thought about putting a Vudoo in, but 1800 for a barreled 22 action is ridiculous. Enter CZ457. Also, I deplore 90° bolt throw, so I may have been looking for a reason to buy the CZ or the Tikka. But I have a Manners folder just sitting here... just needs to be inlet for a 700 instead of Tempest.
as i said in the other manners thread, thank you for the response sir, greatly appreciated!
i've handled a couple of vudoos and they are totally worth the money. i just can't justify it until i remove the last vestiges of a different hobby from my driveway and garage
I've handled several as we have about 10 at our NRL22 matches each month. I still hate 90° bolt throw and my buddies CZ performed just fine this past weekend when we went.
I have had a couple KMW /Ducos mods done. Very nice indeed. 150.00 is what the hardware cost per.
Having it done costs more than price of the option from Manners
Simple.
gotcha. wasn't trying to be disrespectful. its definitely the indian and not the arrow alot of time and you gotta shoot was is comfortable for you
No offense inferred haha I just think a 22 shouldn't cost as much as my PRS rifle and I was pretty happy with the performance of the CZ this past weekend. My 10/22 is completely unpredictable at 100yds so that went out the window after the first match with it. With the 455 I could easily say it was just wind and not just the barrel throwing it everywhere.
If you ask me, Kidd screwed himself by going to a nonthreaded barrel as the new super grades don't shoot worth a damn while the old ones are still shooting great. I was going to buy a Kidd for my Titan until a friend bought one here recently and ended up selling it after his first match with it. Same complaint I had: throwing bullets all over the place at 100.
Yep....anxiously awaiting the hard date from my local ffl...
Sooo does anybody have any intel on the 457, a release date or anything after SHOT?
They said they're having problems with customs due to the shutdown.
Yep, a newbie and will be a first CZ purchase when available, my FFL is hunting down a 457 Pro-Varmint. In the meantime scouring various Forums on first impressions of, " in hand owners" given the 457's what works and what needs tweaking. Getting some conflicting info on this lighter striker and headspace discussions. Keep us informed on your thoughts and findings. "Clean Ignition" at 68 years old a new one to me, probably out of the loop, unless either it failed to ignite, or missed a 100 yard target. Well you, kind, members, please watch my back on this Pro-Varmint purchase as I don't see them trickling in until late February, March.
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My FFl listed $568 for a 457 Pro Varmint but we'll see. To far down the road when the gun is in fact his inventory, reviews on the 457 a bit mixed. I'm not a purest for long range, but rely on commentary for function at this cost. Unless a predominant factor arises, a go for me at this time.
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Fellas, they're now open for pre-order. Check em out: https://www.area419.com/product/cz457-scope-base/
I just grabbed a 457 Varmint 20.5" for $451 online. there are a few floating around out there. i'm a newb to the .22 game, what's the deal with this scope rail? why would you choose 15 over 30 MOA? thx
455PT I've seen for around $800 here in GA. Atlanta area.
Just got my MTR back from the gunsmith. Had them thread the barrel for a suppressor. Also bedded the the receiver into the stock. While I was at it, I pillared/bedded the stock on my 455 varmint. Should be able go to the range this weekend and see if it made any difference. Also probably going to order one of the 419 rails. They look nice.
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Can't wait to hear your range report. Who bedded your receiver? I am on the waitlist for a 457 MTR and would like to do the same.
Thanks!
I pillar/bedded the rifles myself. I had my local gunsmith thread the barrel.
I got to shoot both guns today for the first time. Both shot very well all things considered.
Shooting at 50 yards, bipod and bag in the back. Wind was 5-10 with an instance of 15-20+ right before a storm rolled in. I was shooting Wolf Target Match Extra and SK Rifle Match. I shot each gun for a total of ten groups with each brand of ammo, five shots each. The first two columns are Wolf, the second two are SK. I decided to do it this way because it keeps everything pretty honest. No hiding bad groups or mistakes/flyers. Measurements are on centers.
Some interesting things to note...
1) The 455 only has half the magnification of the MTR (12x vs 24x). That makes a pretty big difference when shooting at sub 1" circles.
2) The 455 shot both types of ammunition more consistently. The 457 did not seem to like the Wolf as much.
3) My last group (bottom right) with the 457 MTR was right before the storm came in and the target was starting to rock back and forth pretty good. If not for that last group, the gun would have averaged .367" with the SK ammo. That is pretty darn good for an almost factory rifle.
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Thanks for taking the time to post your targets. I've been hoping to see some results from someone with one of the MTRs, and I think yours is shooting pretty well. 18" bbl? did your gunsmith shorten it when he threaded the muzzle? CZ's spec sheet lists a 20.5" bbl for the MTR.
No you are correct. I don't know why I thought it had an 18"... Maybe seeing it next to my 24" varmint it just looked short.
Hi All, First post here.
So what's the QC level of your MTR ? I have one on order, but with all the bitching over at RFC, and complaints about QC, I'm seriously thinking a T1X and aftermarket stock. Some of your thoughts would be appreciated, thanks ...
So what's the QC level of your MTR ? I have one on order, but with all the bitching over at RFC, and complaints about QC, I'm seriously thinking a T1X and aftermarket stock. Some of your thoughts would be appreciated, thanks ...
