• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Dead druggie is dead. I knew her.

500grains

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 20, 2008
399
281
dirt nap
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-jail-crying-pain-four-days-refused-help.html

Summary: Bank manager has car accident, takes pain pills, gets hooked, loses job, switches to heroin, off to jail for drug possession.

Suffers intestinal rupture in jail, severe pain, peritonitis, guards and nurses laugh at her, she dies.

Lawsuit.

A jail employee filled out forms when the woman first arrived on March 30, explaining that Ostler had several medical condition that she took medication for, including Crohn's disease.

Inmates in the jail reported hearing the woman yell, moan, curl up in a ball and refused eating for two days and showing signs of dehydration

And when inmates tried to inform guards at the jail, they were told that Ostler was 'coming down off drugs,' and told said to the woman, 'I'll bet it feels like you're going to die, doesn't it? Just a couple more days.'

She was told to stop pushing the alarm button, asking for help, the suit alleges.

For over two days, inmates pleaded that guards assist the woman and told them that she was crying and yelling.

When they found that Ostler stopped breathing, jail staff came and tried to perform CPR before taking her to the hospital.
 
As much as I think druggies.... are worthless...

The jailers are not looking good here. I don't care how much of a sierra-bravo you are... if you are screaming, in pain, showing symptoms... then the jailers have to pay attention and take care.

When your life is forfeit and in the hands of others... the 'others' need to watch out for your life. It's part of the Constitition... no cruel and unusual punishments. Ignoring someone's conditions... isn't being a professional custodian, even when you are being the custodian of a crap-sack.

@1J04 can probably chime in with a more professional analysis.... But even when you don't like a dirtbag... when their life is in your hands... you need to watch over that life.

Sirhr
 
As much as I think druggies.... are worthless...

The jailers are not looking good here. I don't care how much of a sierra-bravo you are... if you are screaming, in pain, showing symptoms... then the jailers have to pay attention and take care.

When your life is forfeit and in the hands of others... the 'others' need to watch out for your life. It's part of the Constitition... no cruel and unusual punishments. Ignoring someone's conditions... isn't being a professional custodian, even when you are being the custodian of a crap-sack.

@1J04 can probably chime in with a more professional analysis.... But even when you don't like a dirtbag... when their life is in your hands... you need to watch over that life.

Sirhr

I think its called "Being held to a higher standard."
 
  • Like
Reactions: sirhrmechanic
Funny how the family is all broken up now that they might be able to make a coupla mill off the deader. I just gotta wonder how many of them visited during the four days she was dying, how many looked a guard in the eye and said their is something wrong with my Sister/daughter/whatever and we have to get her to a hospital.

Now if her brother (or whatever relative) says I went to the jail and they told me that she had been released and they had no idea where she was then it is all back on the jail. But if I was a judge in a suit the family brought I'de want to know where they were when this was happening.

Fur sure it sucks what happened to the poor lady from the accident on. I just think the jail might have been more coopertive if a family member had been threating to go to the media before she died.
 
Last edited:
Sorry about your friend/acquaintance.
Nothing I can add says it better than the guys already did.
 
Sorry about your friend/acquaintance.

I appreciate the thought. However, no one forced her to swallow the pills or shoot the heroin.

As for the jail, it sounds like a mismanaged clusterfuck. But how would that make it unique? I bet the Broward county jail is 10x worse.
 
I just think the jail might have been more coopertive if a family member had been threating to go to the media before she died.

Families get burned out on helping addicts. The reason is that it is not possible to help an addict. They have to hit rock bottom and decide to help themselves. And some don't make it. Although perhaps a family member could have saved her, maybe they already saved her multiple times and gave up. Defense counsel can certainly question family members as to why they did not visit her in jail. But that does not refute liability for the jail, if there is liability. Keep in mind this is a section 1983 case, not ordinary negligence, so it is tough to prove even with bad facts like these. Briefly, the jailers will have to be shown to have acted with deliberate indifference to the life of the deceased. It is not enough that they were just negligent. If the jailers thought she was undergoing drug withdrawal, and they thought she was fine, even though they turned out to be wrong, then they are not liable. However, with other inmates demanding that the guards give medical attention to the now deceased drug addict, the plaintiff seems to have a good case.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: woogie_man
I want to say that we can predict who will likely become a drug addict or regular drinker.
It is someone who sees no way to improve his status.
Conservative Canadian psychology professor Jordan Peterson has 45 million views on youtube....until they ban him. He is in big trouble for threatening to not use the right transgender pronouns.
 
Evil bastards best thank their lucky stars the family just wants money & the taxpayers will foot the bill & they will get away with it.

Things would be very different for them if somebody decided to get some biblical payback.
 
He is in big trouble for threatening to not use the right transgender pronouns.

In the application to Duke University they have an "optional" essay where a student can explain their sexual orientation and gender identity in order to help improve the school's diversity.
 
Families get burned out on helping addicts. The reason is that it is not possible to help an addict. They have to hit rock bottom and decide to help themselves. And some don't make it. Although perhaps a family member could have saved her, maybe they already saved her multiple times and gave up. Defense counsel can certainly question family members as to why they did not visit her in jail. But that does not refute liability for the jail, if there is liability. Keep in mind this is a section 1983 case, not ordinary negligence, so it is tough to prove even with bad facts like these. Briefly, the jailers will have to be shown to have acted with deliberate indifference to the life of the deceased. It is not enough that they were just negligent. If the jailers thought she was undergoing drug withdrawal, and they thought she was fine, even though they turned out to be wrong, then they are not liable. However, with other inmates demanding that the guards give medical attention to the now deceased drug addict, the plaintiff seems to have a good case.

If I was an addict, and I was in jail I believe My wife and my brothers would set up a rotation to check on me every day. They might not fall for any of the little scams addicts run, but they would go to bed every night knowing that I was ok. If reversed I would check on them regularly. I guess I am a pretty lucky guy when it comes to family. I am not defending the jailers in this case, I'm sure many of them knew she belonged in a hospital.
 
The corrections officer main task is THE CARE CUSTODY AND CONTROL OF INCARCERATED PERSONS...$$$$ CHA-CHING AND FIRED.
 
While not excusing any behavior, I think many people who think people should just deal with the pain and condemn them for trying to get relief, along with the doctors and politicians who love trying to play lord and master of who gets pain relief when they need it, have no idea of what actual real chronic pain is.

Wait till something goes wrong with your neck or spine. Or till some idiot med tech trying to take xrays accidentally twists your arm the wrong way and leaves your shoulder bone sitting on the rim of the socket instead of inside the socket.

See how much you think people should "tough it out" when you have involuntary tears rolling down your face because it hurts so bad.
Try "Just getting over it" when you are in so much pain you can barely think, let alone move.
Try the pain of feeling like you are drowning with every breath you struggle for and there is nothing the doctors can do to cure you.

What gets lost in this is that there are often very many people who are in real actual long term pain and need significant powerful pain meds for some time, a long time, or the rest of their lives. They often are the ones who get really shafted by the doctors & politicians because of political pressures, especially if they don't happen to have an understanding Indian or Asian doctor they can go see. (These young white SJW doctors are the worst to deal with). Apparently because some people might have misused prescription drugs, often the people that really need them are faced with a choice of either getting them illegally or not being able to stay alive.
 
While not excusing any behavior, I think many people who think people should just deal with the pain and condemn them for trying to get relief, along with the doctors and politicians who love trying to play lord and master of who gets pain relief when they need it, have no idea of what actual real chronic pain is.

Wait till something goes wrong with your neck or spine. Or till some idiot med tech trying to take xrays accidentally twists your arm the wrong way and leaves your shoulder bone sitting on the rim of the socket instead of inside the socket.

See how much you think people should "tough it out" when you have involuntary tears rolling down your face because it hurts so bad.
Try "Just getting over it" when you are in so much pain you can barely think, let alone move.
Try the pain of feeling like you are drowning with every breath you struggle for and there is nothing the doctors can do to cure you.

What gets lost in this is that there are often very many people who are in real actual long term pain and need significant powerful pain meds for some time, a long time, or the rest of their lives. They often are the ones who get really shafted by the doctors & politicians because of political pressures, especially if they don't happen to have an understanding Indian or Asian doctor they can go see. (These young white SJW doctors are the worst to deal with). Apparently because some people might have misused prescription drugs, often the people that really need them are faced with a choice of either getting them illegally or not being able to stay alive.

A-fucking-men

I damaged my upper neck when I was about 6. Been in severe pain my whole life. 'Deal with it' doesnt go very far. Its nice to get a good nights sleep once in a while. If it takes an occasional narcotic I'll deal with THAT, and Ill look anybody whos says other wise, in the eye, and tell them to suck my goddamn dick.

Fuck the politicians.
 
W54 and Maggot, I know of what you speak.

Ya'll know of the accident I was in. As far as I'm concerned, the broad should have been charged with attempted vehicular homicide as opposed to a fine for negligent driving.

Point is though, when a doctor retires and leaves his practice 'hanging',,, it makes it VERY difficult for patients with constant narcotic prescriptions to find a new doctor. AND THEN, it is the same for finding a decent pharmacy for the same reasons. "There's just no way anyone needs that much xxxxx" has been uttered in my vicinity more than a few times.

And yet...... here we are.

It has been well over a decade, and the 'inner circle' actually know what is going on, who I am, and what I'm about. And I don't talk about it much at all, with 'outsiders'. The point of all this, is that there are some legitimate folks with actual needs. And then there are the VAST MAJORITY of others who're destroying everything, for everyone, out of their own greed and stupidity.

Sorta sounds like gun laws and gun rights, doesn't it? Just thought I'd chime in here.
 
Not to excuse what happened, but...
They likely figured she had incarceritis, a common malady that strikes habitual criminal offenders and is used to either get out of jail or just to annoy the guards and spend more tax dollars.
Apparently she had the infection at the time of arrest.
I really think the prosecutor should file charges of criminal homicide (depraved indifference).
 
  • Like
Reactions: ArmyJerry
If the jailers were trained in alcohol/drug assessment protocols maybe she would have gotten the help. If the jailers are not trained and they just took it upon themselves to diagnose. They are wrong.
 
If the jailers were trained in alcohol/drug assessment protocols maybe she would have gotten the help. If the jailers are not trained and they just took it upon themselves to diagnose. They are wrong.

There were 3 jail nurses that looked at her and did not appreciate the gravity of her situation.
 
I really think the prosecutor should file charges of criminal homicide (depraved indifference).

The facts appear to meet that standard, but I am not holding my breath. Remember this is Salt Lake City where a cop arrested a nurse for not taking him to a severely burned unconscious car crash victim in the burn unit so that the cop could take a blood sample without a warrant.
 
.gov fucked up? No way.

Almost as bad as the dnr cop that drowned that poor kid

There's a shit load of people in this thread that don't know how visitation works.

Hours
Name of people
Etc
Etc
Etc
 
The facts appear to meet that standard, but I am not holding my breath. Remember this is Salt Lake City where a cop arrested a nurse for not taking him to a severely burned unconscious car crash victim in the burn unit so that the cop could take a blood sample without a warrant.
If the prosecutors won't file the charges, then file a complaint with the State Attorney Generals office.
You likely have a case for an 8th amendment violation and may be able to get the feds involved
 
As much as I think druggies.... are worthless...

The jailers are not looking good here. I don't care how much of a sierra-bravo you are... if you are screaming, in pain, showing symptoms... then the jailers have to pay attention and take care.

When your life is forfeit and in the hands of others... the 'others' need to watch out for your life. It's part of the Constitition... no cruel and unusual punishments. Ignoring someone's conditions... isn't being a professional custodian, even when you are being the custodian of a crap-sack.

@1J04 can probably chime in with a more professional analysis.... But even when you don't like a dirtbag... when their life is in your hands... you need to watch over that life.

Sirhr


There's a metric ton of flat out Bullshit in this thread, along with a lot of on point and accurate musings. Some of ya get it cuz you either are or were 'in the know'. The rest of ya that 'think ya know, you don't' period. I've thought for days about picking this thread and a few posters apart, but I already know that that's a waste of time so I'll just give ya this to digest.

I deal with this stuff DIRECTLY, DAILY, and have for a long long time. Regardless of who you are or why you're incarcerated, yes, you are my/our charge and we are going to take care of you the best we possibly can. You are our responsibility. All of us in the business have heard the Wolf Cry literally tens of thousands of times. Had more smoke blown up my ass I should be kippered. You make a complaint regarding your health, you've got our attention. We do a thorough screening at intake. We have people sign Release of Medical Information Requests if someone reports they've had recent surgeries, accidents, are on medications and don't have them with you, you name it. We have medical staff onboard at times during the week and are able to call them 24/7. If we see that something is going south we simply call an Aid Unit and if they so choose to transport to Hospital that's exactly what we do. That's what you're suppose to do.

We are not nor should be trained to make decisions whether you're bullshitting or not. We assess and pass that info along to those that have that degree and wear that hat. We take temps, BP's, and Blood Sugars, and make available your meds and offer you the opportunity to dispense them yourself. We do not dispense, we offer you the opportunity to take your meds.

If after being bullshitted over and over again you choose to not act on a medical complaint "because you think they're wanting a ride to Hospital and a Fresca", you're in the wrong line of work. We don't make those calls whether we'd like to or not. We work hard for our money and toys and I'll be go to hell if I'm giving my shit up Civilly or Criminally to anyone that walks through these doors because I can't get over myself. Ain't happening.

Nothing, nothing will torpedo you faster than not taking a medical complaint seriously. I've seen more people coming off Drugs and Alcohol than I care to remember. It's a "DAILY" deal. Daily! It's happening right now as I type, not 60' from where I sit right now. I've seen more people have seizures than I care to remember. Excited Delirium, hundreds of times. People busted up coming through the door, people having their ass handed to them while incarcerated, handing some their ass while incarcerated, you name it. If you're fuckered up or say or show you're fuckered up you better do your job and get these people help. We aren't your sentence. We're your "CARETAKER". You are our Charge. Period.

We don't have all the facts regarding this, as usual. But for the sake of argument let's say this person at Booking was forthcoming during the Intake Process, you know, the Q&A time during Booking. If this person disclosed during questioning that she had this surgery and has been having complications or complications arose while in then this is an epic failure of the system and staff and people are going to be held accountable. I can tell you if this scenario played out in my modest little Pokey she'd have been taken to Hospital via Aid Unit and she'd of been ran through the gamut of tests and either X-Rays or CAT Scan or MRI's.

So now I'll stop because I've gone on to long already. Could write pages regarding this, but why? If you've got a question I'd be happy to answer it if I can. I will say this should not have happened and this person should have been taken to Hospital. Period. Regardless of what we think, because really it doesn't matter, she shoulda taken a ride.
 
Last edited:
While not excusing any behavior, I think many people who think people should just deal with the pain and condemn them for trying to get relief, along with the doctors and politicians who love trying to play lord and master of who gets pain relief when they need it, have no idea of what actual real chronic pain is.

Wait till something goes wrong with your neck or spine. Or till some idiot med tech trying to take xrays accidentally twists your arm the wrong way and leaves your shoulder bone sitting on the rim of the socket instead of inside the socket.

See how much you think people should "tough it out" when you have involuntary tears rolling down your face because it hurts so bad.
Try "Just getting over it" when you are in so much pain you can barely think, let alone move.
Try the pain of feeling like you are drowning with every breath you struggle for and there is nothing the doctors can do to cure you.

What gets lost in this is that there are often very many people who are in real actual long term pain and need significant powerful pain meds for some time, a long time, or the rest of their lives. They often are the ones who get really shafted by the doctors & politicians because of political pressures, especially if they don't happen to have an understanding Indian or Asian doctor they can go see. (These young white SJW doctors are the worst to deal with). Apparently because some people might have misused prescription drugs, often the people that really need them are faced with a choice of either getting them illegally or not being able to stay alive.
Nailed it.
 
Would anyone like to receive a copy of the civil complaint filed in federal court? I am not sure how to post a pdf but I can email it if anyone is interested. Just PM me your email address.