Dillon xl650

Turbwhistle

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Hello, i am new to reloading and have the opportunity to pick up a dillon xl650 for a decent price. My concern is reloading sub moa rifle rounds, it seems like the dillon doesnt have an extremely precise powder system. That being said the 650 would be good for reloading 9mm, 45acp, 300bo, 556, so it probably would be worth while to pick up for those. So, i was wondering if there is a decent way to load precise 308, 300wsm rounds using a dillon, or would i be better off picking up a turret press?

Thanks in advance

Chris
 

padom

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    There are ENDLESS threads here about this already and comes up many times a year. I personally have posted numerous responses, tips, tricks, mods, etc., along with others like @reubenski on how we load precision 308, 6.5cm, 5.56, etc on our 650's... especially with 8208 on polished, modified, Micrometer adjustment Dillon powder system for mass qty precision rifle rounds..

    Now if you want to load these precision rounds in small qty....you remove the Dillon powder system, leave in their powder die and put an Area419 funnel with their Dillon adapter on...then you can drop charges off press on a scale and dump for each round...

    Honestly, 550 is the ticket for all that but can be done on a 650...I run a 550 for precision rifle and have 2 650 setup for 9mm and 5.56 and a Co-Ax that rarely gets used and a Rock Chucker for odd jobs...depriming a few cases, bullet pulling with RCBS bullet puller die....
     

    Turbwhistle

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    Padom, i saw a few of your posts but like you said, it seemed like you strayed away from a 650 for precision rifle. I was more just looking to see if it could be done and would be worth picking up with precision rifle in mind. I’ll keep digging and see if it will fit my needs.

    Thank you

    Chris
     

    padom

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    Padom, i saw a few of your posts but like you said, it seemed like you strayed away from a 650 for precision rifle. I was more just looking to see if it could be done and would be worth picking up with precision rifle in mind. I’ll keep digging and see if it will fit my needs.

    Thank you

    Chris

    I use a 550 for the bulk of my precision reloading. For the very reason of being able to advance the cases manually vs auto when doing lots of testing.. load development, etc...You asked if it was possible, I have made it pretty clear it's very possible and I've done a bunch of it with 8208XBR in 308 and [email protected] does it with Staball in 6.5cm...

    If you remove the powder hopper....you can load anything you want throwing charges manually off press and using a funnel...I've loaded many thousands of precision 5.56 for my DMR with 8208 in my modified and polished hopper with 77smk and 77cc....

    Same with 175smk in 308....

    I dont know any other way to say yes fully capable....if you read my posts on the subject you'll see all the polishing, mods, parts I've done to make my 650 very accurate and smooth...
     
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    GTOJOSH

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    My best answer? If it's a great deal buy it. Respectfully, If you are truly new to reloading it'll take awhile until you know enough to make rounds better on a 650 vs a lee handloader. A zero from 419, or a rockchucker.
    As padom mentioned, you'll likely end up with more equipment than you initially think if you stick to it long enough.
    Until then, you've got a great press to begin the most frustrating, infuriating, rewarding, fun, pissed off, perplexed hobby you'll ever find.
    Now, if it's a "my brother in law bought it for 60$ over retail, and is willing to sell it for the same as in stores price" kind of good deal- get back to me for different answers.
     

    Choid

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    A couple of things. First, I did not like the 650 and could never get the primer system to work as well as I wanted, but nobody else seems to have that issue. I love the 550 and the 1050, though the latter is not great for loading "precision" ammo.

    Re powders, my experience is identical to Padoms. You can throw well sub MOA charges with 8208xbr, even in an unmodified hopper, and if you polish, get a pyrex hopper and use the micrometer bar, it gets even better. That said, I would suggest that if you are going to load with a dropper, then do load development with a dropper, because you will be seeing your real world results during your load development process.

    I am lazy so I have done my best to figure out which powders are really good enough through the hopper. With 308 you have several options -- 8208, CFE and a few similar to CFE. With 300 WSM, you have Staball, which is pretty damn good. If you add the Johnson Quick Measure set up for Dillon, you can reliably throw Re17, which is probably the best 300 WSM powder out there, and you don't do too badly with some even chunkier. If you can't throw, then you weigh and pour.

    In testing, I've seen basically zero additional runout from seating in my Dillon. My bullet runout basically matches my case neck runout prior to seating, and I do case prep on a Zero press. There is no disadvantage runout or seating depth wise, to using the Dillon for the loading steps. I think there is no particular advantage to doing sizing and case prep on the Dillon unless you are using the trimmer, which is more for mass production, but it doesn't do a bad job in any way.
     

    padom

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    A couple of things. First, I did not like the 650 and could never get the primer system to work as well as I wanted, but nobody else seems to have that issue. I love the 550 and the 1050, though the latter is not great for loading "precision" ammo.

    Re powders, my experience is identical to Padoms. You can throw well sub MOA charges with 8208xbr, even in an unmodified hopper, and if you polish, get a pyrex hopper and use the micrometer bar, it gets even better. That said, I would suggest that if you are going to load with a dropper, then do load development with a dropper, because you will be seeing your real world results during your load development process.

    I am lazy so I have done my best to figure out which powders are really good enough through the hopper. With 308 you have several options -- 8208, CFE and a few similar to CFE. With 300 WSM, you have Staball, which is pretty damn good. If you add the Johnson Quick Measure set up for Dillon, you can reliably throw Re17, which is probably the best 300 WSM powder out there, and you don't do too badly with some even chunkier. If you can't throw, then you weigh and pour.

    In testing, I've seen basically zero additional runout from seating in my Dillon. My bullet runout basically matches my case neck runout prior to seating, and I do case prep on a Zero press. There is no disadvantage runout or seating depth wise, to using the Dillon for the loading steps. I think there is no particular advantage to doing sizing and case prep on the Dillon unless you are using the trimmer, which is more for mass production, but it doesn't do a bad job in any way.

    I've done extensive testing of case prep and loading, runout, seating depth accuracy, powder drop consistency on the 650 in various other threads very similar to this one...

    I run Whidden floating die toolheads with the Uniquetek clamp kit for every toolhead, Mighty Armory decapping dies, Forster FL sizing dies with no rod/expander and 21st Century TiN turning mandrel to set final neck tension and push any inconsistencies to the OD..

    I've done countless runout tests on processed brass and loaded rounds, side by side by side on Forster, 550c and XL650 processing brass and loading precision ammo..

    No difference in runout of processed brass and loaded rounds between these presses....my 550c also runs same setup as 650...same toolheads, clamp kit and die setup...

    I also have a case feeder, bullet feeder and RT1500 trimmer on my 650... I process large qty of LC 5.56, LC 7.62, LC 300blk and 6.5cm with this setup very fast and accurate...I have dedicated toolheads for EVERYTHING... I must have 20-30 toolheads... 2 for every load (1 for brass processing and 1 for loadind). I have dedicated dual toolheads for 5.56 plinking stuff and 223/5.56 precision....etc... I do NOT switch dies, setup, etc each time I change out my 650. Simply swap toolheads and caliber kits (shell plate, case adapter, etc) and ready to run...

    I got so tired of swapping from small primer to large or 9mm 5.55 I have 2 dedicated 650 now...one usually sits setup for 9mm and the other for 5.56...but I'll swap between primer size on the 5.56 press....
     

    alamo5000

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    Hello, i am new to reloading and have the opportunity to pick up a dillon xl650 for a decent price. My concern is reloading sub moa rifle rounds, it seems like the dillon doesnt have an extremely precise powder system. That being said the 650 would be good for reloading 9mm, 45acp, 300bo, 556, so it probably would be worth while to pick up for those. So, i was wondering if there is a decent way to load precise 308, 300wsm rounds using a dillon, or would i be better off picking up a turret press?

    Thanks in advance

    Chris
    Watch this video please.

     

    padom

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    Here some old pictures I found on my IMGUR of my 550 vs 650 setups

    550c




    Here the Area419 funnel setup I mentioned (can run this 9n a 550 and 650) to drop charges manually with your digital or beam..






    Old 650XL pic before I got my bullet feeder and second 650 and swapped all my toolheads for floating die Whidden




    Before and after polishing Dillon powder funnels










    Full 6.5cm match brass prep...deprime, bump shoulder back, trim and set neck tension with mandrel


     

    Choid

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    I've done extensive testing of case prep and loading, runout, seating depth accuracy, powder drop consistency on the 650 in various other threads very similar to this one...

    I run Whidden floating die toolheads with the Uniquetek clamp kit for every toolhead, Mighty Armory decapping dies, Forster FL sizing dies with no rod/expander and 21st Century TiN turning mandrel to set final neck tension and push any inconsistencies to the OD..

    I've done countless runout tests on processed brass and loaded rounds, side by side by side on Forster, 550c and XL650 processing brass and loading precision ammo..

    No difference in runout of processed brass and loaded rounds between these presses....my 550c also runs same setup as 650...same toolheads, clamp kit and die setup...

    I also have a case feeder, bullet feeder and RT1500 trimmer on my 650... I process large qty of LC 5.56, LC 7.62, LC 300blk and 6.5cm with this setup very fast and accurate...I have dedicated toolheads for EVERYTHING... I must have 20-30 toolheads... 2 for every load (1 for brass processing and 1 for loadind). I have dedicated dual toolheads for 5.56 plinking stuff and 223/5.56 precision....etc... I do NOT switch dies, setup, etc each time I change out my 650. Simply swap toolheads and caliber kits (shell plate, case adapter, etc) and ready to run...

    I got so tired of swapping from small primer to large or 9mm 5.55 I have 2 dedicated 650 now...one usually sits setup for 9mm and the other for 5.56...but I'll swap between primer size on the 5.56 press....
    Yeah, I pretty much do the same, though I figure if I am going to chamfer my case necks, I am already touching the cases again, so the Dillon loses its advantage, so for that stuff I go zero to giraud. Otherwise I will do prep, for 223 300bo and 6.5cm semi auto, on a CP2000.
     

    padom

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    I don't process brass throughout the year on average....special situations/testing aside... I process 1000's of pieces of brass in the coldest/snow months for each caliber, tumble and fill bins for each rifle and caliber that are all labeled and ready for loading throughout the shooting season..

    I have identical fired bins as well I throw them in throughout the warm months with a note for how many times fired...they fill up throughout season....I don't process them.


    When I'm ready to load, I pull 100pc or whatever I need of processed brass out and run them on the Henderson before loading.... this works GREAT for all my precision rifle loads...


    But damn, if only I could get a tri way cutter (trim, chamfer, debur) for my on press RT1500 trimmer.....I HATE having to touch all my LC brass off press to chamfer/debur before running thousands of rounds of 5.56...
     
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    Choid

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    I don't process brass throughout the year on average....special situations/testing aside... I process 1000's of pieces of brass in the coldest/snow months for each caliber, tumble and fill bins for each rifle and caliber that are all labeled and ready for loading throughout the shooting season..

    I have identical fired bins as well I throw them in throughout the warm months with a note for how many times fired...they fill up throughout season....I don't process them.


    When I'm ready to load, I pull 100pc or whatever I need of processed brass out and run them on the Henderson before loading.... this works GREAT for all my precision rifle loads...


    But damn, if only I could get a tri way cutter (trim, chamfer, debur) for my on press RT1500 trimmer.....I HATE having to touch all my LC brass off press to chamfer/debur before running thousands of rounds of 5.56...
    It seems like it should be possible to do. I guess it would just be having specially cut carbide inserts for each caliber. I use the honey badger version, for no particularly good reason, but with the boring bar I am pretty sure it uses Dillon inserts, so I would definitely be a buyer of a cutter like that. I just don't know how hard it is to get custom carbide cutters.
     

    Huskydriver

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    I don't process brass throughout the year on average....special situations/testing aside... I process 1000's of pieces of brass in the coldest/snow months for each caliber, tumble and fill bins for each rifle and caliber that are all labeled and ready for loading throughout the shooting season..

    I have identical fired bins as well I throw them in throughout the warm months with a note for how many times fired...they fill up throughout season....I don't process them.


    When I'm ready to load, I pull 100pc or whatever I need of processed brass out and run them on the Henderson before loading.... this works GREAT for all my precision rifle loads...


    But damn, if only I could get a tri way cutter (trim, chamfer, debur) for my on press RT1500 trimmer.....I HATE having to touch all my LC brass off press to chamfer/debur before running thousands of rounds of 5.56...

    That is my greatest reloading desire... Someone for the love of shooting please come up with an on the press trim chamfurs,debur solution.....common @Mr. F put that engineering degree to work baby
     
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    Choid

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    That is my greatest reloading desire... Someone for the love of shooting please come up with an on the press trim chamfurs,debur solution.....common @Mr. F put that engineering degree to work baby
    It shouldn't be hard. The geometry of the cutters exists. Just copy the giraud. I think the issue is that for Dillon, and their aftermarket part makers, the 1500 is a tool for cutting down 300 BO first and foremost, then for trimming 3 gun ammo. Nobody is thinking of it as a tool to three way trim for precision ammo. I don't know if there is a market.
     

    Threadcutter308

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    I got so tired of swapping from small primer to large or 9mm 5.55 I have 2 dedicated 650 now...one usually sits setup for 9mm and the other for 5.56...but I'll swap between primer size on the 5.56 press....
    This. I love my 650's (2 of them, one for 9mm, one for .45 ACP). The "Caliber quick change" can be done, but after about the 128th time, it gets real tedious.

    This is an expensive hobby. But, 650's (750's) are cost effective enough that setting up/committing a machine for a specific caliber isn't too painful financially. I run Bulletfeeders on both machines. Dialed in and humming, they're dreamy. I do all my centerfire rifle with Wilson/my own hand dies and an arbor press. Slow, but I enjoy it/it's relaxing for me.
     

    Choid

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    This. I love my 650's (2 of them, one for 9mm, one for .45 ACP). The "Caliber quick change" can be done, but after about the 128th time, it gets real tedious.

    This is an expensive hobby. But, 650's (750's) are cost effective enough that setting up/committing a machine for a specific caliber isn't too painful financially. I run Bulletfeeders on both machines. Dialed in and humming, they're dreamy. I do all my centerfire rifle with Wilson/my own hand dies and an arbor press. Slow, but I enjoy it/it's relaxing for me.
    When they started making small primer 45, I just switched both of my 1050s over to small primer and got rid of large primer 45s. It was too much of a PITA to sort them, and you can buy them cheap because a lot of people sort them out and only want the large primer ones. Now I don't shoot 45 as much as I used to, so I have one machine dedicated to 9, and the other I switch between 300 BO, 223 and 45. It only takes a few seconds to change as long as you don't have to switch the primer system.
     

    Billl223

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    I had run about 200,000 pistol rounds through my 650 and called Dillon for a part. They apparently knew when I originally bought the press and advised that they had made about 18 upgrades to the press since I bought mine and asked me to send it back for free upgrades. I've run about another 100,00 rounds since.
     

    Downzero

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    I load basically all my ammo on a 650. I would buy a 750 unless you're getting a really amazing deal.

    I don't ever use the dillon powder measure with match bullets, by the way. No powder thrower should be used for ammunition for serious long range.

    That said, ammo that is "sum moa" weighed probably will still be "sub moa" thrown. It will just have more vertical variation than it ought to.
     

    Threadcutter308

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    I had run about 200,000 pistol rounds through my 650 and called Dillon for a part. They apparently knew when I originally bought the press and advised that they had made about 18 upgrades to the press since I bought mine and asked me to send it back for free upgrades. I've run about another 100,00 rounds since.
    There is a little known program whereby you contact Dillon, ask for an RMA to return your press (in my case, my 650) and send to them for cleaning/maintenance. They tear everything down, replace any smaller parts that look worn/out of spec, thoroughly clean it and return it to you in a new box. Had it done to one of mine, maybe 4 years ago. I think it may have been $120.00 back then, which included return shipping. Press and all components looked like brand new.

    If that sounds attractive to anyone, call them up and see what they have to say. I was really pleased with the deal. Enough so, I bought a second full 650 setup.
     
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    Choid

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    The 650/750 has my brain itching. Is there any advantage to these over the 550 for precision rifle, or is it just better for production speed? With precision rounds, are you guys using a casefeeder?
     

    padom

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    The 650/750 has my brain itching. Is there any advantage to these over the 550 for precision rifle, or is it just better for production speed? With precision rounds, are you guys using a casefeeder?

    Absolutely a 650 advantage if you're using a powder that meters consistently in the Dillon powder hopper....I use case feeder for everything I run on my 650... specifically for my 5.56 DMR loading 77smk, 77c, 75 BTHP....

    For processing brass, the 550 doesn't come close...dump your brass in the case feeder and just keep pulling the handle...no comparison
     
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    Choid

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    Absolutely a 650 advantage if you're using a powder that meters consistently in the Dillon powder hopper....I use case feeder for everything I run on my 650... specifically for my 5.56 DMR loading 77smk, 77c, 75 BTHP....

    For processing brass, the 550 doesn't come close...dump your brass in the case feeder and just keep pulling the handle...no comparison
    I have all of that covered on my big machines. I mean for something like 300 PRC or whatever where I am currently using the 550 in place of a single stage. Does the 650/750 make those cartridges better than the 550?
     
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    padom

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    I have all of that covered on my big machines. I mean for something like 300 PRC or whatever where I am currently using the 550 in place of a single stage. Does the 650/750 make those cartridges better than the 550?

    I dont shoot those cartridges so I have no advice for you on those bigger calibers.
     

    Choid

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    I dont shoot those cartridges so I have no advice for you on those bigger calibers.
    OK, let me ask this way, then. You have 550 and 650s. At what point do you switch to the 550, and what do you feel you are able to do better with the 550 that warrants the change.
     

    padom

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    OK, let me ask this way, then. You have 550 and 650s. At what point do you switch to the 550, and what do you feel you are able to do better with the 550 that warrants the change.

    As stated above, Manual vs automatic.....when doing load testing of different rifles, load development, etc the manual station change vs automatic is easier for this type of task.
     

    Downzero

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    I had a 550 and got rid of it when I got my 650. I do not use my case feeder with larger rifle cartridges and I don't even have the plate to put them in there. There's nothing about a 550 that would be better for making precision rifle ammunition since all I'm doing is seating a bullet on the press anyway. The case feeder can be nice when processing brass, though, and when I'm cranking out .223 I do use my case feeder to size it all. My seating and powder die for that are on an entirely separate tool head from the sizing die though, as I trim, address primer pockets, etc., between those operations.

    The only thing I miss about my 550 is that it was slightly easier to switch calibers.
     

    Choid

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    I had a 550 and got rid of it when I got my 650. I do not use my case feeder with larger rifle cartridges and I don't even have the plate to put them in there. There's nothing about a 550 that would be better for making precision rifle ammunition since all I'm doing is seating a bullet on the press anyway. The case feeder can be nice when processing brass, though, and when I'm cranking out .223 I do use my case feeder to size it all. My seating and powder die for that are on an entirely separate tool head from the sizing die though, as I trim, address primer pockets, etc., between those operations.

    The only thing I miss about my 550 is that it was slightly easier to switch calibers.
    So 6.5 and 308 you don't use the casefeeder? i can crank out 223 and pistol on my 1050 and Apex, but those make marginally good precision ammo. They make a lot of it, but you can't float dies and there are other downsides to go with a great deal of benefits. But if I can speed up precision ammo using a 750 instead of the 550, I might be interested. Especially as I have an extra casefeeder and a few extra Mr. Bulletfeeders lying around. Not sure about using Mr. Bulletfeeder to load precision ammo, but with the longer boattails, it probably works really well.

    I could also use it for 10mm, which I can't load on my bigger machines because switching to large primer is an all day task.
     

    Huskydriver

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    I have all of that covered on my big machines. I mean for something like 300 PRC or whatever where I am currently using the 550 in place of a single stage. Does the 650/750 make those cartridges better than the 550?
    I load everything but 338 lm on my 650
     

    Choid

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    I load everything but 338 lm on my 650
    Do you use the casefeeder with the big cartridges? I am very intrigued now. I modded my 550 G shellplate to load 300 Norma, and it works great, but I think that is the only thing I could not load on a 750.
     

    Huskydriver

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    Do you use the casefeeder with the big cartridges? I am very intrigued now. I modded my 550 G shellplate to load 300 Norma, and it works great, but I think that is the only thing I could not load on a 750.

    Yep I feed everything with a case feeder and even drop boat trail bullets with a bullet feeder for most everything. You just need to index smoothly. If you did the g shell plate mod you could even do 338lm. I just don't shoot my 338 enough that I felt the need to put it on the Dillon.

    I use a fx120 auto trickler v3 set up and throw powder by hand for the stick powders. For 4350 I ave a charge about every 7 seconds. It's about the same time to place a bullet by hand and pull the handle for the next case so it's pretty fast. I have actually set up a manual thrower before to under throw about a grain and then place the cup on the V3 and have it trickle in the last grain works well too. Ymmv
     

    Downzero

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    So 6.5 and 308 you don't use the casefeeder? i can crank out 223 and pistol on my 1050 and Apex, but those make marginally good precision ammo. They make a lot of it, but you can't float dies and there are other downsides to go with a great deal of benefits. But if I can speed up precision ammo using a 750 instead of the 550, I might be interested. Especially as I have an extra casefeeder and a few extra Mr. Bulletfeeders lying around. Not sure about using Mr. Bulletfeeder to load precision ammo, but with the longer boattails, it probably works really well.

    I could also use it for 10mm, which I can't load on my bigger machines because switching to large primer is an all day task.
    No, not only do I not use a case feeder, I don't even have the plate to use it. The thought never crossed my mind to even buy one.

    I am not in a hurry to load my precision ammo. All of it gets the powder weighed twice. I'm pretty picky with my match ammo.
     

    Choid

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    Read this about shellplate mods on a 550. Buy a 550 for more precise loading. Not promoting the Prometheus.

    The issue he is encountering with primer depth is that Dillon is trying, on the 550 and 650/750 to use one mechanism to seat both large pistol and large rifle primers, but they are about 7 thou different in thickness, so you get slightly shallow rifle and slightly deep pistol. For small primers it works well because both are the same thickness. On the large machines you have a screw to set primer depth. The grinding the bottom of the shellplate is dumb because it doesn't address a critical dimension, but everything else he says is correct.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    Loaded yesterday on a super bad ammo making S1050.....tested today in a Bartlein bolt rifle.

    WCC 08 (2X), 23.2 of 8208XBR dropped from the standard dillon drop with polished interior, Win SRP, OAL 2.26

    4gI1lNml.jpg


    q1nF05Yl.jpg


    UFk8gphl.jpg


    234QNNUl.jpg


    Cold bore plus 4

    PQaaO6Zl.jpg


    Fits inside a half inch circle

    38kpOHfl.jpg


    5x5

    5kkEkpnl.jpg
     

    Choid

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    Feb 13, 2017
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    Loaded yesterday on a super bad ammo making S1050.....tested today in a Bartlein bolt rifle.

    WCC 08 (2X), 23.2 of 8208XBR dropped from the standard dillon drop with polished interior, Win SRP, OAL 2.26

    4gI1lNml.jpg


    q1nF05Yl.jpg


    UFk8gphl.jpg


    234QNNUl.jpg


    Cold bore plus 4

    PQaaO6Zl.jpg


    Fits inside a half inch circle

    38kpOHfl.jpg


    5x5

    5kkEkpnl.jpg
    I don't know if you have tried the TNT Munitions shellplates, but they make loading rifle on the 1050 way less of a pain in the ass. Pretty much all of the case sway is gone. It won't change your loads, as they are obviously good, but I find that when I get going quickly on the 1050 with tall cases, it is easy to get too much movement as the shellplate indexes and you can catch a neck edge and snag it. Between that and the Reloading Innovations spill stoppers, you can really tighten things up.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    I don't know if you have tried the TNT Munitions shellplates, but they make loading rifle on the 1050 way less of a pain in the ass. Pretty much all of the case sway is gone. It won't change your loads, as they are obviously good, but I find that when I get going quickly on the 1050 with tall cases, it is easy to get too much movement as the shellplate indexes and you can catch a neck edge and snag it. Between that and the Reloading Innovations spill stoppers, you can really tighten things up.


    Oh God, This fuckstain is being helpful.

    I dont run my 1050 to try to achieve stated output. If I do 200 rounds in a session and maintain it until I run out of components for that caliber I can usually produce a surplus of ammo to last me long time.

    I do caliber changes like auto manufacturers retool for model year. Break everything down, clean, start fresh.

    My 1050 runs sweet since getting rid of the ratchet long ago and it produces some good ammo.

    Only small hiccup I have now is every once in a while the swage backup rod will ding a case mouth on .223. I probably shouldnt even run it on mo "Load" tool head but I use mil brass and like to make sure I get a good swage to accept the primer.

    Its 0436 EST. Not being able to sleep thinking about a world of shit I have my pour over coffee almost brewed and I think I will head to the basement and pull 200 rounds now.

    I really like the idea of those grease fitting bolts for the primer actuator rocker and the index arm. Keep your suggestions coming.
     

    Choid

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    Oh God, This fuckstain is being helpful.

    I dont run my 1050 to try to achieve stated output. If I do 200 rounds in a session and maintain it until I run out of components for that caliber I can usually produce a surplus of ammo to last me long time.

    I do caliber changes like auto manufacturers retool for model year. Break everything down, clean, start fresh.

    My 1050 runs sweet since getting rid of the ratchet long ago and it produces some good ammo.

    Only small hiccup I have now is every once in a while the swage backup rod will ding a case mouth on .223. I probably shouldnt even run it on mo "Load" tool head but I use mil brass and like to make sure I get a good swage to accept the primer.

    Its 0436 EST. Not being able to sleep thinking about a world of shit I have my pour over coffee almost brewed and I think I will head to the basement and pull 200 rounds now.

    I really like the idea of those grease fitting bolts for the primer actuator rocker and the index arm. Keep your suggestions coming.
    The 1050s are pretty solid machines once they get dialed in. There are definitely some compromises but overall they are probably the best manually operated reloader. That 223 dinging is exactly what I mean by what you get from case sway when running tall cartridges with the factory shellplate. There is just too much sway. I'd either suggest getting the TNT plate, or the FW Arms self centering swage foot. Unless you are actually using that shitty backup expander for belling the case mouth, then it is really not a good product.

    I actually do not use the swage station on my 1050 because the way I am set up to load, nothing hits that machine with an unswaged primer pocket. I have a CP2000 where I will swage rifle brass, and 45 small primer, which is the other thing I will load on it, is not in need.

    The only other two really excellent products I can think of are the Alpha funnel for pistol and the improved Double Alpha 223 funnel for rifle. The former just does a better job on the case mouth, and the latter has better internal geometry to avoid any powder bridging. The powder check will only tell you if you have 10 grains or 40 instead of 25, it won't tell you if you have 22 because of a powder bridge.

    I also like having a shellplate light, though it really isn't essential. Also the new Double Alpha pistol casefeed plate is awesome, as long as you already have the variable speed casefeeder upgrade. If you don't, maybe do that. You just install it into your existing casefeeder body.
     

    pmclaine

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    Oh God, This fuckstain is chatty in a helpful sort of way.

    I turn down all my swage backing rods in an attempt to get the hot dog in a traffic tunnel effect when they enter the brass.

    I do no belling and let the neck mandrel handle tension and allowance for boat tails to slide in place. Have never had a problem with flat bottom 55s as long as mouth was chamfered.

    Think I lost one piece of brass this AM hitting the swage backing Rod.

    Issue I needed to tighten up was actual swage.

    This is 2X brass but still had some fucked up primers I had to cull out of my loaded rounds box 4-5 maybe.

    And.....

    I almost shit my Jammie's when a primer popped, thankfully it didn't set the stack of 80 or so off.

    This is why I like having swage ability on both process and load toolheads, gave the swage rod a little more elevation
     

    Choid

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    get an ammobrass swage setter. it's all you need.

    The advantage of the 1050 and similar presses is that the primer seating is mechanical and consistent. The disadvantage is that you have no feel and you can't jam it into place like in a 550/650. Obviously the 1050 is a better system for high volume reloading, but you do have to get your swage set right. You not only want to take out the crimp, but even on normal brass you want to set a nice little bevel on the opening to the primer pocket so that they go in easier. You can take a look at your shellplate indexing, but if you are having only a few issues, then it is probably fine. On my 45 toolhead, I run an Everglade's Ammo primer backup which acts as a holddown in the primer station. It press fits into that little hole. But you can't use it with rifle brass, so not a great option for you. It just makes primer seating a little more consistent.
     
    Last edited:

    Choid

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    Oh God, This fuckstain is chatty in a helpful sort of way.

    I turn down all my swage backing rods in an attempt to get the hot dog in a traffic tunnel effect when they enter the brass.

    I do no belling and let the neck mandrel handle tension and allowance for boat tails to slide in place. Have never had a problem with flat bottom 55s as long as mouth was chamfered.

    Think I lost one piece of brass this AM hitting the swage backing Rod.

    Issue I needed to tighten up was actual swage.

    This is 2X brass but still had some fucked up primers I had to cull out of my loaded rounds box 4-5 maybe.

    And.....

    I almost shit my Jammie's when a primer popped, thankfully it didn't set the stack of 80 or so off.

    This is why I like having swage ability on both process and load toolheads, gave the swage rod a little more elevation
    Did I mention that you should get an Alpha Dropper for pistol. They have better geometry and allow you to expand your case less than any other powder through dropper I have seen.
     

    Huskydriver

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    Did I mention that you should get an Alpha Dropper for pistol. They have better geometry and allow you to expand your case less than any other powder through dropper I have seen.

    Truth
     

    Choid

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    So, for a bit of an experiment, I loaded up two sets of ten rounds of "clone" 168 fgmm today to shoot alongside real 168 fgmm in my Tac Ops Delta, which, of course, is built for that round. The first 10 were 42.8 grains of 4064 weighed out on an autotrickler and loaded on a Forster. The second were 42.8 grains of 4064, thrown in a Johnson's Quick Measure, which has a Dillon attachment. Basically, it is a powder thrower that doesn't allow for cutting grains, and it is supposed to be more accurate than others, but 4064 is a shitty powder to throw charges of, so it is a good test. The control group was 10 rounds of FGMM. Only proviso is that my clone load is about 50 fps faster than fgmm, by design.

    The results were that precision was identical between the three loads. FGMM was 2610 out of my barrel with an SD of 19, which is pretty normal for it. Weighed rounds were 2669 with an SD of 9. Thrown rounds on the 550 were 2660 with an SD of 12.5.

    Obviously only you can decide whether the extra work of priming on a Primal Rights CPS, then mandrelling on a Forster before weighing charges and then seating on a Forster is worth that 3.5 fps lower sd than mandrelling, priming, throwing and seating on a Dillon. For me the Dillon is a better solution for this round/rifle combination, because 168s are already iffy at longer distances and I generally only shoot it out to 750 yards, where there is just no difference between the two loads.

    The only modification to my Dillon is that I took about three thou off of the bottom of the primer punch to seat at 4.5-5.5 thou deep. I also used an Armanov toolhead. I've gone away from the thrust bearing bullshit because I think it is pretty useful on an automatic indexing press, but actually makes the manual indexing presses a bit worse.

    Oh, conditions were driving snow and 6 degrees F, but I was shooting out of my garage, so the ammo was a toasty 70 degrees.
     

    Rich4

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    May 2, 2020
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    The issue he is encountering with primer depth is that Dillon is trying, on the 550 and 650/750 to use one mechanism to seat both large pistol and large rifle primers, but they are about 7 thou different in thickness, so you get slightly shallow rifle and slightly deep pistol. For small primers it works well because both are the same thickness. On the large machines you have a screw to set primer depth. The grinding the bottom of the shellplate is dumb because it doesn't address a critical dimension, but everything else he says is correct.
    Actually I’ve machined my shellplates in the lathe by indicating from the rim holding surfaces, it improves primer seating consistency also allowing tuning shell plate tension to rim thickness instead of bottoming out before tightening the shell slop, I don’t think doing it freehand would be helpful without measurements and a steady hand, personally I thought grinding down the primer cup was questionable as mine experiences coil bind anyway, a set screw under the priming post was better to me
     

    Choid

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    Actually I’ve machined my shellplates in the lathe by indicating from the rim holding surfaces, it improves primer seating consistency also allowing tuning shell plate tension to rim thickness instead of bottoming out before tightening the shell slop, I don’t think doing it freehand would be helpful without measurements and a steady hand, personally I thought grinding down the primer cup was questionable as mine experiences coil bind anyway, a set screw under the priming post was better to me
    So, I can't prove this but I am pretty sure that the reason the 550 and 650 make better precision ammo is that the shellplate does much less in those machines. That is to say, on the downstroke, its only job is to hold the cartridge rim in index as the cases actually sit on the dead flat floor. In contrast, the 1050/1100 have pockets for the cases, and while how much you tighten the shellplate down doesn't matter very much, since the toolhead forces it to bottom out, the plate itself is more important, which is one of the reasons you see upgraded plates, like FFB and TNT, for those machines.

    So you are right that the only thing the shellplate directly controls is a part of the primer seating. I suppose you are right that if you got it dead flat, you could get more consistent primer seating, but it is already pretty good, and it isn't going to be perfect, like a CPS, because of the mechanism itself. My worry would be that if you start taking dimension off of the outside, you are taking away the part of the getup that stabilizes the cases throughout.

    If you are going to do it, though, you definitely have the right idea on indexing on the rim and machining on the middle. I am glad it works. I'd definitely buy dead flat shellplates if they were offered, I just don't think I can shoot the difference of flattening them.
     

    Molon

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    My concern is reloading sub moa rifle rounds,

    The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards using ammunition that was loaded on a Dillon XL-650 with a short cut extruded powder (VihtaVuori N133.) The group has an extreme spread of 0.548".


    55_grain_BlitzKings_from_Krieger_ar15_00-2222451.jpg




    VihtaVuori N133 (the individual red squares in the grid below are 1/10th of an inch).


    vihtavuori_n133_002b-2222452.jpg



    ...
     

    Huskydriver

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    The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards using ammunition that was loaded on a Dillon XL-650 with a short cut extruded powder (VihtaVuori N133.) The group has an extreme spread of 0.548".


    55_grain_BlitzKings_from_Krieger_ar15_00-2222451.jpg




    VihtaVuori N133 (the individual red squares in the grid below are 1/10th of an inch).


    vihtavuori_n133_002b-2222452.jpg



    ...
    But did you weigh it twice tho....
     

    Choid

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    So, this is a trick I don't know if people know but if you like the geometry of the Alpha dropper, you can use it in the Lee universal expander die if you expand in a different step from charging powder. Mainly for 1050s who don't swage or for Mark 7 users.