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Do you guys prefer MIL or MOA?

All you need is this reticle .
View attachment 8316075
I keep saying I'm going to go drop some serious dough on a really nice LR scope. And when I start looking I see variants of this type of reticle...

The only one that has caught my eye is one of the Leupold Mark 5 models... Don't ask me which one as I can't remember all the alphabet soup that comes after "Mark 5."

Mike
 
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Seriously though...

I get the feeling the OP is trolling us... Maybe not.

Anyway, I prefer MRAD scopes for the simple reason that is what I learned on.

But as pointed out, if you're using the reticle to correct your shots, it doesn't matter.

Mike
 
I keep saying I'm going to go drop some serious dough on a really nice LR scope. And when I start looking I see variants of this type of reticle...

The only one that has caught my eye is one of the Leupold Mark 5 models... Don't ask me which one as I can't remember all the alphabet soup that comes after "Mark 5."

Mike

Get a Mk 5 LGBTQ with an MOA Horus reticle and put it on a 6.5 Creedmoor Savage in a Plaster Ultimate Sniper stock with a Harris Bipod.

And it will still be less ghey than the 6.5 vs .308 thread.

Sirhr
 
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Get a Mk 5 LGBTQ with an MOA Horus reticle and put it on a 6.5 Creedmoor Savage in a Plaster Ultimate Sniper stock with an Atlas Bipod.

And it will still be less ghey than the 6.5 vs .308 thread.

Sirhr
Sounds odd, but the only things I don't gag at in that recommendation are the Savage and the Atlas bipod. I have a Savage (the crowd recoils and gasps in disgust) but not an Atlas. I'm about fed up with bipods in general. 😆

MIke
 
Sounds odd, but the only things I don't gag at in that recommendation are the Savage and the Atlas bipod. I have a Savage (the crowd recoils and gasps in disgust) but not an Atlas. I'm about fed up with bipods in general. 😆

MIke

It’s Ok Mike… you’re good people here and your firearms choices don’t detract from that. Much.

Sirhr
 
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I'm honestly not, I'm new to shooting. But I have a feeling this board isn't the place for "beginner questions".
Well, if you don't ask you won't know. But you picked a couple of "lively" topics to discuss. 😆

Seriously though... MRAD or MOA isn't a big issue.

If you're making a living sending lead at targets that you have to bracket to find distance... Then you might argue one way or the other... But for slinging lead at known distances. Don't worry about it.

Mike
 
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It basically has to to do with communication and using the most common language, which these days is MIL. If all you will do is shoot by yourself and be your own spotter, then it doesn't matter.
 
I'm honestly not, I'm new to shooting. But I have a feeling this board isn't the place for "beginner questions".
You could have searched mil vs moa and saved the heartache with this thread. Folks here get chippy rehashing same subjects every week. For your question, we switched from moa to mil. It is easier esp at distance and most folks at matches use mil, so speaking same language helps. But they both work.
 
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I'm honestly not, I'm new to shooting. But I have a feeling this board isn't the place for "beginner questions".
The thing is this is at least the 5th or 6th time this has been brought up by different people where the thread has gone more than 5 pages and that is just since I joined in 2017. It always devolves. Notice how somebody mentioned above that we are almost to mil moa month? That is February since it is shortest. Check out the Legendary Thread for those threads. We are tired of the question.

1mil is unit at 1000 units of whatever the measurement unit is. Squirrel balls, foot length, dick length, hats, lightyears, doesn't freaking matter. Don't think of what linear size is. Forget that completely. The only (and I mean ONLY) time you should using inches when shooting is measuring the group size. The only other time to think of measuring anything with standard units of length is range. Every other measurement when thinking about adjusting a scope is in units of what the scope is. Don't think in terms of clicks. 3.25 moa. 2.4 mil. (numbers off the top of my head). 3.1 mil (my 600 yard dope within the first 20 rounds of my 6.5 creed tikka)

Lowlight himself did an article on this almost 4 years ago. Read it. Understand it.
 
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MOA scopes are cheaper in the PX. I want to switch to MIL but I'm a poor. That's my reason.
 
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You can tell men are losing testosterone because long ago most men had the ability to bark squirrels* using nothing but a 36 cal muzzle loader, while the top tier could do it with a pistol. These days we need a cannon to kill Bugs Bunny.

*Squirrel barking, is when you hold fire until the the squirrels nose is very close to a branch/limb. You shoot just under its nose & the concussion from the bullet hitting the bark just under its nose stuns it, to the point it falls out of the tree. You then wring its neck w/no wasted/destroyed meat.
 
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I'm honestly not, I'm new to shooting. But I have a feeling this board isn't the place for "beginner questions".
Just think angles not inches. Frank discusses it in depth. Gotta do a bit of searching using the search engine. Or get his book. Probably best long range instructional available in print. (@Lowlight you got your boosting for the day).



IMG_2645.jpeg
 
Ohh boy. I missed all the fun. Its 3 pages already.

OP: don’t listen to these people. Get yourself an Arken in MOA and a .308 and dont look back!!

IMG_1082.gif
 
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I've been using mils (with a mil dot scope with mil turrets). All of the things I was taught and literature from Vortex assume "real" mils (6283.2 in a circle) My "Arty" friend uses NATO mils (6400 in a circle). Russians mils are 6000 to a circle. The purist in me wonders if everything we use is on the same page.
 
giphy.gif


Use the search function. Do not try to use linear measurements for angular measurement. Once you "get it", you'll understand that's like trying to find the volume of a sphere using temperature.
I tell you we have far too many Mil vs Moa thread. There”s literally nothing that can be said about them that isn’t here already.
 
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I've been using mils (with a mil dot scope with mil turrets). All of the things I was taught and literature from Vortex assume "real" mils (6283.2 in a circle) My "Arty" friend uses NATO mils (6400 in a circle). Russians mils are 6000 to a circle. The purist in me wonders if everything we use is on the same page.
Shoot 3 or 4 MOA Tulammo through your guns and it won’t even clutter your mind any further.
 
@LeftyJason did you mention February and MOA vs MILS!!!??? It’s not February yet. Are we bringing the band back together?

@KCode you are new. Look above and click on the link in post #114. Read it. Afterwards start playing with the search function at the top left here on SH.

For a lesson in what happens when you don’t use the search function….😀

 
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What is really wrong. We need to invent a new measurement system. Now that would make the MOA, MIL, and Say the WIL measurement system argument get really spicy. 🌶️. Let’s make the system named WIL measure halfway between the Minutes of Angle and MILLs and make it divisible by 12 but use a base four number system.

That ought to Really Spice things up. 🌶️🌶️🌶️. (Really getting off the subject, we had a cold, rainy day this past Friday and I made a great pot of Chili.)
 
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What is really wrong. We need to invent a new measurement system. Now that would make the MOA, MIL, and Say the WIL measurement system argument get really spicy. 🌶️. Let’s make the system named WIL measure halfway between the Minutes of Angle and MILLs and make it divisible by 12 but use a base four number system.

That ought to Really Spice things up. 🌶️🌶️🌶️. (Really getting off the subject, we had a cold, rainy day this past Friday and I made a great pot of Chili.)

Screw that commie shit.

Let’s Measure in furlongs. Hey, that Preakness shit has worked for 100 years.

No reason it’s not valid for scopes!

Sirhr

Sirhr
 
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Did it have beans in it? ‘Cause apparently that’s a deciding factor for chili.
Beans? WTF are beans? We use Venison, oh yeah, we do have peppers, lots of peppers. We had to swap out our Stainless Steel pots because the chili was so hot, it melted the stainless.

But beans you say? Why would I put barbecue beans in chili?
 
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Screw that commie shit.

Let’s Measure in furlongs. Hey, that Preakness shit has worked for 100 years.

No reason it’s not valid for scopes!

Sirhr

Sirhr
I like that, we could have milli-furlongs. Great, I’m gonna call Leupold, Bushnell, Vortex, ACO and Tangent Theta folks tonight to get them working on the reticle. Recon we’ll get a commission for each reticle sold like Horus does?
 
His mouth. Only.
Where ?
When ?
How far are YOU wanting to shoot ?
We double that.

Bring your own certified targets for the range you choose.
Then we cut them in quarters.
Fuck a buncha bullshit.

Put up
Or
Shut up
 
What is really wrong. We need to invent a new measurement system. Now that would make the MOA, MIL, and Say the WIL measurement system argument get really spicy. 🌶️. Let’s make the system named WIL measure halfway between the Minutes of Angle and MILLs and make it divisible by 12 but use a base four number system.

That ought to Really Spice things up. 🌶️🌶️🌶️. (Really getting off the subject, we had a cold, rainy day this past Friday and I made a great pot of Chili.)
Source: xkcd 927
standards.png

This is what would result.
 
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Screw that commie shit.

Let’s Measure in furlongs. Hey, that Preakness shit has worked for 100 years.

No reason it’s not valid for scopes!

Sirhr

Sirhr
We should be more creative than furlongs. There's lots more units than that!
 
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We should be more creative than furlongs. There's lots more units than that!
Car length. Good enough for Jeff Gordon.
 
View attachment 8317305
This is what would result.
Lefty you make this as a joke but in the real world it is VERY Real.

Bicycle bottom brackets. Basically the bearing system for the cranks/pedal/chaninring system.

Put some ball bearings in a race, grease em every decade or so and good to go right….WRONG!

There are at least 10 different standards and every new standard is supposed to be the new “Universal“ standard. In my shop I have 14 bicycles. Between Pressfit, outside bearing, inside bearing and ball bearing on a race, I have at least six different bottom bracket standards to deal with. Pressfit is the worst of the bunch and there are multiple Pressfit standards. Oh, did I forget? Each different type of bottom bracket requires its own tools to install and remove. Oh yes, they do wear out too frequently and they do have to be replaced.

I forgot to mention the bearing standards for the headset.
 
So, here we are with a click measuring contest.

I have heard a few different ideas.

Guess what, regardless, we still measure inches. There is a conversion from mils to inches. Both are units of angular measurement.

MOA has more clicks, allowing for finer adjustments.

MRAD is fewer clicks but is easier to use in a tactical situation. You will get on target easier and it is base 10.

So, many times, a military sniper may be using mil and measuring in meters. But I have heard that a lot of PRS shooters prefer mil.

For what it is worth, I have MOA scopes and I do not equate 1 MOA to 1 inch. I equate 1 MOA to 1.047 inches. So, if you shoot at a target at 100 yards and the dispersion is 1 inch, that is sub MOA. Allow me to explain.

1 < 1.047

Re-read that as often as necessary.

For me, it would not matter if I used mil. I am going to dial my solution for distance, 9 times out of 10.
 
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I understand dialing when you do not have a decent ret, but holds are just as accurate (if not more so) when your playing tag for real.
You said it better than I did. Angular measurement are angular measurements. I happen to be more comfortable, personally, with imperial. Metric is for commies. JK