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Associated Press

A Memphis Police Department recruit was accidentally shot in the arm by an instructor during a training exercise at the Police Training Academy.

The recruit, who was not identified, was wounded Tuesday in the left wrist and released from a hospital after treatment.

Deputy Chief Joe Scott told WMC-TV that the drill was meant to teach recruits how to draw a weapon using their non-shooting hand. One of two instructors fired a gun that was supposed to have been unloaded.

Scott called it an "unfortunate accident."

The instructor was routinely relieved of duty until an investigation is completed.
 

Alaskaman11

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Re: Doh!

It could happen to anyone, once you start thinking htat critter is unloaded, it bites you or someone else. I hope this teacher does not get smoked for this.
 
G

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Re: Doh!

The rumor mill around these parts says that there was a ND event at the Bass Pro Shops in Ashland, VA last week.

The story is that someone brought in a Glock wanting a holster for it.
Counter guy left the weapon on the display case and walked with the customer to look at holsters.

Second counter guy came along and thought that someone had left an inventory item out.
He picked it up, pointed it at the floor and pulled the trigger.
Luckily, all that got shot was the floor, but it certainly got everyone's attention.
 

DustyJacket

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Re: Doh!

Bass Pro has those cheap trigger locks on all firearms for sale, so the absence of a lock should have been a warning.

They WILL NOT remove them even if you want to try the trigger, here in KCMO.

That story may be incorrect or the employee may be an idiot.
 

Grump

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Re: Doh!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rumor mill around these parts says that there was a ND event at the Bass Pro Shops in Ashland, VA last week.

The story is that someone brought in a Glock wanting a holster for it.
Counter guy left the weapon on the display case and walked with the customer to look at holsters.

Second counter guy came along and thought that someone had left an inventory item out.
He picked it up, pointed it at the floor and pulled the trigger.
Luckily, all that got shot was the floor, but it certainly got everyone's attention. </div></div>
The difference between this non-injury event and the recruit getting perforated is....

The instructor swept a live human who he did not want to shoot AND then pulled the trigger.

"Unloading" a firearm does NOT suspend all of the other Rules!

AFIC, that instructor should never train again. It takes MULTIPLE sequential failures to get to the point of sending a bullet through a recruit. Walk the walk, Buckwheat!
 

chevyrulz

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Re: Doh!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rumor mill around these parts says that there was a ND event at the Bass Pro Shops in Ashland, VA last week.

The story is that someone brought in a Glock wanting a holster for it.
Counter guy left the weapon on the display case and walked with the customer to look at holsters.

Second counter guy came along and thought that someone had left an inventory item out.
He picked it up, pointed it at the floor and pulled the trigger.
Luckily, all that got shot was the floor, but it certainly got everyone's attention. </div></div>
The difference between this non-injury event and the recruit getting perforated is....

The instructor swept a live human who he did not want to shoot AND then pulled the trigger.

"Unloading" a firearm does NOT suspend all of the other Rules!

AFIC, that instructor should never train again. It takes MULTIPLE sequential failures to get to the point of sending a bullet through a recruit. Walk the walk, Buckwheat! </div></div>fuck yea that instructor should be banned from teaching and pistol whipped with extreme prejudice
 

smokshwn

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Re: Doh!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It could happen to anyone, once you start thinking htat critter is unloaded, it bites you or someone else. I hope this teacher does not get smoked for this. </div></div>

Are you serious? With minor effort this event is easily avoided. Some trainers go to great lengths to insure needless events like this CANNOT happen. This is easily accomplished with multi layered checks and safeties into and out of the training area couple that process with a simple investment of two dollars http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2318.php and you have visual and physical prevention of an ND during training.

I don't wish this situation on anyone, however as a trainer this guy should be done.
 
G

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Re: Doh!

I had a bro named Joey Cushman who was killed in a training accident with his tac unit. A great cop and a great guy killed by an unloaded weapon.

I have zero fucking patience for this kind of shit. This is why nothing but a red gun should EVER be allowed in the classroom.
 

Alaskaman11

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Re: Doh!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a bro named Joey Cushman who was killed in a training accident with his tac unit. A great cop and a great guy killed by an unloaded weapon.

I have zero fucking patience for this kind of shit. This is why nothing but a red gun should EVER be allowed in the classroom. </div></div>

+1000000 on the red gun, as for the last comment, its always the guys who take the extra steps in safty that this happens to, Dont think of my comment as lazzy safty, my comment is that its always the un loaded critter that bites you. Ie thats why I love the red guns.
 

McCrazy

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    Re: Doh!

    That is definitely a major case of stupidity and complacency. I don't think he should be trusted to train recruits when he apparently lacks the skill to do things properly and safely. That is level 1 gun handling and safety right there.
     

    mgd45

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    Re: Doh!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a bro named Joey Cushman who was killed in a training accident with his tac unit. A great cop and a great guy killed by an unloaded weapon.

    I have zero fucking patience for this kind of shit. <span style="font-weight: bold">This is why nothing but a red gun should EVER be allowed in the classroom</span>. </div></div>

    I am very sorry for your loss.....but your statement in bold, I disagree with. In a class room setting, you can swap out your regular barrel for a training barrel, which is a solid piece of plastic and makes you gun unable to be fired.

    You can't even load a round, because the chamber is blocked. It allows you to demonstrate loading techniques, reloading of magazines, trigger press & using the trigger reset & clearing drills.

    This is much more realistic and better than simply using a "red gun". The red gun has it's place in certain training classes, but is unrealistic in others. I'm really sorry to hear about your friend.
     

    BeerAlchemist

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    Re: Doh!

    Another unfortunate end is that in police training the fear of being dropped during training and FTO is pounded so hard into recruites mind that they often do not have the confidence to request something be stopped for safety. This mentality should be changed to some rule such as rewarding a recruit with a case of beer (afterwords) if he opens his mouth to identify an instructor doing something stupid.
     
    G

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    Re: Doh!

    MGD, if you want tap rack ready drills and the like, then do it on a range with a dedicated firing line and all the protocols that go on at the range.

    If you're doing drills , then there is no need to have a real weapon.

    In your solution, I forsee testimony: "I just forgot to change the barrels..."

    This is almost exactly what happened to Joey. They were doing team training with simunition. They went to lunch (and switched back to their duty weapons). After lunch, they were all dicking around telling the new guy how sim rounds bounce off helmets. Joey donned the helmet, while they were talking. Blane, without thinking, drew his weapon, and put one in Joeys head.

    The sim weapons were actual weapons that had been converted to simunition. (See where this is going?) Blane said that bc that weapon and his duty weapon were identical in apprearance, he just forgot to switch em out, and he didnt notice the difference when holding the gun. Sounds like something that could be an easy mistake with a fake barrel, doesnt it?

    Was in Blane's fault? Yes. Preventable? Yes. This accident was caused, in part, by the fact that the exterior of the weapon looked just like a real weapon. Never would have happened if the training weapons were READILY IDENTIFIABLE as brightly colored training weapons.

    But, hey, Joey had a great fucking funeral.
     

    kingrabbit

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    Re: Doh!

    damn bro... sorry for your loss.. sucks that situations like happen.. no disrespect to the loss of your friend... but i always think about that clip with the black guy with the dredlocks in the class room talking about he is the only one who is qualified to handle a gun and bam.. shoots himself.. always finding myself clearing my weapons 2 or 3 times and checking other folks around me.. i get alot of " man i cleared it" i gives a fuck.. let me see..
     

    mgd45

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    Re: Doh!

    The training barrel I'm refering to is an extremely bright yellow solid plastic barrel that CANNOT be mistaken for a real barrel. There is no way any instructor who isn't blind would mistakenly reassemble the gun with the real barrel & not know it. It's simply impossible. Been using it for years........not a single problem.

    In your story of how Joey died, the main cause was that several basic firearm rules of safety were violated. I'm assuming that the person who shot Joey wasn't the instructor. No firearms are allowed in my classroom by ANY of the students. Only the instructor has the yellow plastic barrel training pistol. ONLY the instructor handles & uses the gun for different demonstrations.

    Once again, I'm sorry about your loss, but this wasn't an accident that occurred in a classroom environment by the instructor.......The instructor allowed the students to "re-arm" back up & just like you said in your post, "they were dicking around..." This doesn't have anything to do with a classroom setting instruction. Atleast, that's how I interpret it.
     
    G

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    Re: Doh!

    In EVERY training accident, rules are violated. Thats the whole fucking point. Human error is always a factor.

    By saying something like, "It's simply impossible," you obviously dont take that human factor into consideration... Or youve just gotten very complacent.

    And, yes, Blane was an instructor.

    So, when you go out to lunch from training, you dont make ready your weapon? You go into public or allow your students to go into public with a non working weapon or an empty holster?
     
    G

    Guest

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    Re: Doh!

    Youre barrel doesnt address another issue.

    A redgun is readily identifiable while in the holster, where the weapon is going to be most of the time.

    The presence or absence of a yellow barrel cant be seen...maybe until its too late.
     

    Grump

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    Re: Doh!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In EVERY training accident, rules are violated. Thats the whole fucking point. Human error is always a factor.

    By saying something like, "It's simply impossible," you obviously dont take that human factor into consideration... Or youve just gotten very complacent.

    And, yes, Blane was an instructor.

    So, when you go out to lunch from training, you dont make ready your weapon? You go into public or allow your students to go into public with a non working weapon or an empty holster? </div></div>
    That's not the point and that's not the problem.

    It's what is/was allowed to happen AFTER the return from lunch, rolling out armed and all that.

    This is not the first time I've heard of a lethal training accident AFTER LUNCH. You gotta have a hot zone where EVERYTHING is cleared and all ammo removed and all live arms or live barrels or non-Simunitions barrels are LEFT BEHIND.

    Then you gotta have a "training zone" where EVERYTHING IS CHECKED AGAIN, and only after that point can anyone point what is now technically not a firearm at any human, live or dead.

    A lot of these training mishaps would be more easily prevented if there were as much concern about protecting the LE officers from each other, than about protecting them from the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">commoners</span>, oh, citizens.

    If that's not possible, then for Heaven's sake have lunch ordered in so there are not so many opportunities to "forget".

    Any decent plaintiff's attorney would be able to rightfully rip these types of procedures before the fatal accidents to shreds.
     

    mgd45

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    Re: Doh!

    That really sucks that the instructor was the one who pulled the trigger....(not that anyone else doing it would be better..)....

    I'm only trying to address your statement of "nothing other than a red gun" should ever be in a classroom".....so I guess when your introducing a class of students to a new firearm, how to you get them to disassemble & reassemble & learn how to clean on a red gun?

    It doesn't matter if your "classroom" is in a building or a range.....sooner or later you have to have your students touch and manipulate a real weapon in order to teach them. This is why safety rules & regulations are so important and should be checked & re-checked by multiple instructors.

    Your correct in that the human factor will be introduced, and mistakes might be made.....but if that's the case, I guess we might as well end firearms training & qualifing.....because sooner or later we will be giving students real guns with real ammo......so I guess it's not safe.

    Rearming and leaving the classroom for a break & returning is a whole different scenario which reopens the "can of safety". What you've described is different than what I'm referring to. My bright yellow training barrel isn't on my personal gun, but rather on an extra gun that is soley used for the teaching & demonstration purposes in the classroom.

    The reason for this is exactly for the scenario you described......there is no way the gun can accidentally be made "live"....because it's always kept with the blank yellow barrel during the entire class instruction.

    Before our students are allowed to re-enter after a break they are checked for weapons at two different points by two different instructors.

    If one of the students violates a standard rule of safety while on break & outside the classroom & points a gun at a fellow officer and shoots him.....Then that is on the individual officer, not the instructor......unless the instructor is the one who did it!

    I can remember on my first firearm instructor school I attended, everytime the instructor was going to show us something on a real gun, he would perform a safety check in front of us, then he would have 2 different students come up & verify by performing their own checks, so that 3 people have now confirmed the gun was cleared.

    He did this so much over the 2 week class period that it became annoying because it felt like he slowed down the class.....but he taught us a great safety lesson, & one that I do in my instruction to this day.
     
    G

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    Re: Doh!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm only trying to address your statement of "nothing other than a red gun" should ever be in a classroom".....so I guess when your introducing a class of students to a new firearm, how to you get them to disassemble & reassemble & learn how to clean on a red gun?
    </div></div>

    LOL.

    I see your point. "Never" might be a strong word. I was referring to DT style training scenarios, firearm retention drills, or learning new techniques such as this incident (drawing weak side). For that kind of shit, nothing more than a red gun is needed.
     
    G

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    Re: Doh!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A lot of these training mishaps would be more easily prevented if there were as much concern about protecting the LE officers from each other, than about protecting them from the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">commoners</span>, oh, citizens.
    </div></div>

    Who the hell protects LE from the public, other than us?
     

    mgd45

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    Re: Doh!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm only trying to address your statement of "nothing other than a red gun" should ever be in a classroom".....so I guess when your introducing a class of students to a new firearm, how to you get them to disassemble & reassemble & learn how to clean on a red gun?
    </div></div>

    LOL.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">I see your point. "Never" might be a strong word. I was referring to DT style training scenarios, firearm retention drills, or learning new techniques such as this incident (drawing weak side). For that kind of shit, nothing more than a red gun is needed.</span></div></div>

    I absolutely agree 100 % with this statment. I actually meant to mention this type of training but I guess I got long winded & it slipped my mind! We use the red gun too for DT training, & your spot on. Nothing but a red gun or blue gun should ever be used with this type of training.
    cool.gif






    </div></div>
     

    Tburkes

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    Re: Doh!

    Here's a quote from a friend of mine who does lots of instructing all over.

    "Being an instructor means you are the subject matter expert. In this case and in our instructor capacity we handle firearms on a daily basis. We load, unload and manipulate weapons with ease..... which allows some to become complacent. I like to think I am so damn good I am about to make a mistake.... Kind keeps me in check."
     

    Grump

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    Re: Doh!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's a quote from a friend of mine who does lots of instructing all over.

    "[snip] I like to think I am so damn good I am about to make a mistake.... Kind keeps me in check." </div></div>
    Best attitude I've ever encountered. It may have already saved at least one life.

    You and your friend deserve props for sharing that.
     

    jrhammons

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    Re: Doh!

    Shaggy

    Sorry to hear of your loss. Had the same thing happen. Our sim guns are now BRIGHT Blue and are never changed. We had finished working house clearing drills with the changable barreled sim guns and were leaving and two of our guys did the same thing after firing sim guns all day and now dead cop shot by his best friend. That was a bad day for us and changed most of us forever. We have a three level security check on top of all training weapons are now NEON. And no live weapons are brought into the training area (on the grounds), completely forbidden!
     

    Grump

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    Re: Doh!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A lot of these training mishaps would be more easily prevented if there were as much concern about protecting the LE officers from each other, than about protecting them from the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">commoners</span>, oh, citizens.
    </div></div>

    Who the hell protects LE from the public, other than us? </div></div>
    Well, since we haven't banned virtually all private firearms ownership here like they did in Jamaica in 1976, the risk level from *all* citizens to LEs is much, much lower than it is there.

    If we look at only firearms for LE in the line of duty deaths, don't we have a disturbingly large (more than 10%?) proportion of dead officers killed by each other? It's unfair, but adding in suicides by firearm really boosts the dead percentage NOT killed by citizen/alien/illegal alien-bad guys.

    Since so many of these training incidents are non-fatal, I also worry about how the ratio would change if all firearm injuries were added to the death by firearms figures.

    The irreverent point is similar to the argument that we could cut drunk driving deaths in our country in half by taking all of the OTHER drivers off the roads. Think about it. Effective (perhaps more than half because none of us would be there to get hit) but unacceptable for other reasons.
     
    G

    Guest

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    Re: Doh!

    10% huh? What hole did you pull that bullshit number out of?

    2008 - 132 officers in LOD. One is known to have been killed by officers, who arrived on scene and mistook him as a suspect bc he was in plainclothes. One was killed during a raid with the FBI, and they still arent sure that in was another officers bullet that got him (since all hell broke loose).

    That, so the math doesnt confuse you, comes out to 1.5%, assuming the FBI killed that officer.

    .7% if the FBI didnt get him.
     
    G

    Guest

    Guest
    Re: Doh!

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    Maryland Transportation Authority Police D.., MD
    EOW: Tuesday, January 1, 2008
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    Chippewa County Sheriff's Department, WI
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    EOW: Sunday, January 20, 2008
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    Virgin Islands Police Department, VI
    EOW: Sunday, January 20, 2008
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    Mount Vernon Police Department, NY
    EOW: Friday, January 25, 2008
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    Indiana State Police, IN
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    New Orleans Police Department, LA
    EOW: Monday, January 28, 2008
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    South Carolina Highway Patrol, SC
    EOW: Friday, February 1, 2008
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    Arkansas State Police, AR
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    Latimer County Sheriff's Office, OK
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    Harris County Sheriff's Department, TX
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    EOW: Thursday, June 5, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire
    Police Officer Todd Bahr
    Fredericksburg Police Department, VA
    EOW: Friday, June 6, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Deputy Sheriff Steve Boehm
    Onslow County Sheriff's Department, NC
    EOW: Saturday, June 14, 2008
    Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle
    Deputy Sheriff Jose Antonio (Tony) Diaz
    Yolo County Sheriff's Department, CA
    EOW: Sunday, June 15, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Trooper David Shawn Blanton Jr.
    North Carolina Highway Patrol, NC
    EOW: Tuesday, June 17, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire
    Correctional Officer Jose Rivera
    United States Department of Justice - Fede..., US
    EOW: Friday, June 20, 2008
    Cause of Death: Stabbed

    Police Officer Nicholas Heine
    Pueblo Police Department, CO
    EOW: Saturday, June 21, 2008
    Cause of Death: Heart attack
    Correctional Officer Donna Fitzgerald
    Florida Department of Corrections, FL
    EOW: Wednesday, June 25, 2008
    Cause of Death: Stabbed

    Sergeant Richard Findley
    Prince George's County Police Department, MD
    EOW: Friday, June 27, 2008
    Cause of Death: Vehicular assault
    Police Officer Gary Gryder
    Houston Police Department, TX
    EOW: Sunday, June 29, 2008
    Cause of Death: Vehicular assault

    Police Officer Richard Francis
    Chicago Police Department, IL
    EOW: Wednesday, July 2, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire
    Police Officer Kenneth (Greg) Surles
    Pell City Police Department, AL
    EOW: Friday, July 4, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Agent Osvaldo Pérez-León
    Puerto Rico Police Department, PR
    EOW: Tuesday, July 8, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident
    Police Officer Joshua T. Miktarian
    Twinsburg Police Department, OH
    EOW: Sunday, July 13, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Police Officer Andrew Widman
    Fort Myers Police Department, FL
    EOW: Friday, July 18, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire
    Deputy Sheriff Anthony Forgione
    Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office, FL
    EOW: Tuesday, July 22, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Police Officer Aldo Rossi
    Port Dickinson Police Department, NY
    EOW: Sunday, July 27, 2008
    Cause of Death: Vehicular assault
    Trooper Shawn W. Snow
    New York State Police, NY
    EOW: Sunday, August 3, 2008
    Cause of Death: Electrocuted

    Detective Sandra Joyce Bullock
    Bushnell Police Department, FL
    EOW: Tuesday, August 5, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident
    Deputy Sheriff Dennis Compton
    Colleton County Sheriff's Office, SC
    EOW: Wednesday, August 6, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Officer Monte Ruby
    CoxHealth Department of Public Safety, MO
    EOW: Wednesday, August 6, 2008
    Cause of Death: Assault
    Agent Osvaldo Gonzalez-Ortiz
    Puerto Rico Police Department, PR
    EOW: Thursday, August 7, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire (Accidental)

    Detective Michael Smith Phillips
    Virginia Beach Police Department, VA
    EOW: Thursday, August 7, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire
    Deputy Probation Officer Irene Beatrice Rios
    Imperial County Probation Department, CA
    EOW: Wednesday, August 13, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Lieutenant Robert Curry
    Gulfport Police Department, MS
    EOW: Thursday, August 14, 2008
    Cause of Death: Motorcycle accident
    Deputy Sheriff Martha Woods Shareef
    Lafourche Parish Sheriff's Department, LA
    EOW: Wednesday, August 20, 2008
    Cause of Death: Vehicular assault

    Ordinance Officer Kathy Ann Cox
    Gordon County Sheriff's Office, GA
    EOW: Thursday, August 21, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident
    Police Officer Thomas Raji
    Perth Amboy Police Department, NJ
    EOW: Friday, August 22, 2008
    Cause of Death: Vehicular assault

    Police Officer Melvin Dyer
    Duxbury Police Department, MA
    EOW: Monday, August 25, 2008
    Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle
    Police Officer Timothy A. Haley
    Columbus Division of Police, OH
    EOW: Tuesday, August 26, 2008
    Cause of Death: Duty related illness

    Trooper Evan F. Schneider
    Montana Highway Patrol, MT
    EOW: Tuesday, August 26, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident
    Deputy Sheriff Anne Jackson
    Skagit County Sheriff's Office, WA
    EOW: Tuesday, September 2, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Officer Christopher Kane
    Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, FL
    EOW: Thursday, September 4, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Police Officer Isabel Nazario
    Philadelphia Police Department, PA
    EOW: Friday, September 5, 2008
    Cause of Death: Vehicular assault

    Police Officer Kenneth Santucci
    Belleville Police Department, NJ
    EOW: Saturday, September 6, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Deputy Sheriff Marty M. Martin
    Franklin County Sheriff's Department, OH
    EOW: Saturday, September 6, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Sergeant Paul Starzyk
    Martinez Police Department, CA
    EOW: Saturday, September 6, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Trooper Andrew Stocks
    North Carolina Highway Patrol, NC
    EOW: Tuesday, September 9, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Sergeant Dario Aponte
    New Haven Police Department, CT
    EOW: Wednesday, September 10, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Police Officer Grant Jansen
    St. Charles Police Department, MO
    EOW: Wednesday, September 10, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Police Officer III Spree Desha
    Los Angeles Police Department, CA
    EOW: Friday, September 12, 2008
    Cause of Death: Train accident

    Sergeant Michael C. Weigand Jr.
    Latimore Township Police Department, PA
    EOW: Sunday, September 14, 2008
    Cause of Death: Motorcycle accident

    Deputy Sheriff Adam William Klutz
    Caldwell County Sheriff's Office, NC
    EOW: Friday, September 19, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Officer Kristine Fairbanks
    United States Department of Agriculture - ..., US
    EOW: Saturday, September 20, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Sergeant Patrick McDonald
    Philadelphia Police Department, PA
    EOW: Tuesday, September 23, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire
    Police Officer Nathaniel Taylor Jr.
    Chicago Police Department, IL
    EOW: Sunday, September 28, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Pilot Stephen H. Bunker
    Maryland State Police, MD
    EOW: Sunday, September 28, 2008
    Cause of Death: Aircraft accident
    Trooper First Class Mickey C. Lippy
    Maryland State Police, MD
    EOW: Sunday, September 28, 2008
    Cause of Death: Aircraft accident

    Sergeant Robert Douglas
    Oklahoma City Police Department, OK
    EOW: Sunday, September 28, 2008
    Cause of Death: Motorcycle accident
    Correctional Officer Douglas Falconer
    Arizona Department of Corrections, AZ
    EOW: Wednesday, October 1, 2008
    Cause of Death: Heart attack

    Correctional Officer Rodney Kelley
    Alabama Department of Corrections, AL
    EOW: Friday, October 3, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident
    Police Officer Bradley Moody
    Richmond Police Department, CA
    EOW: Tuesday, October 7, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Deputy Sheriff David Gilstrap
    Oconee County Sheriff's Office, GA
    EOW: Thursday, October 9, 2008
    Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle
    Game Warden George Harold Whatley Jr.
    Texas Parks and Wildlife Department - Law ..., TX
    EOW: Friday, October 10, 2008
    Cause of Death: Heart attack

    Officer / Paramedic Bruce W. Harrolle
    Arizona Department of Public Safety, AZ
    EOW: Monday, October 13, 2008
    Cause of Death: Aircraft accident

    Deputy Sheriff Sarah Jones
    Monroe County Sheriff's Office, IN
    EOW: Sunday, October 19, 2008
    Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle

    Second Lieutenant Frank Stecco
    Fairfax County Police Department, VA
    EOW: Tuesday, October 21, 2008
    Cause of Death: Drowned

    Police Officer David Tome
    Northern York County Regional Police Depar..., PA
    EOW: Tuesday, October 21, 2008
    Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle

    Police Officer Richard Bremer
    Frederick City Police Department, MD
    EOW: Wednesday, October 22, 2008
    Cause of Death: Vehicle pursuit

    Deputy Sheriff Randy Hamson
    Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, CA
    EOW: Friday, October 24, 2008
    Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle

    Police Officer Shane Figueroa
    Phoenix Police Department, AZ
    EOW: Saturday, October 25, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Sergeant Michael King
    University City Police Department, MO
    EOW: Friday, October 31, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Police Officer Frank Russo
    Schaumburg Police Department, IL
    EOW: Saturday, November 1, 2008
    Cause of Death: Heart attack

    Detective Joseph Airhart Jr.
    Chicago Police Department, IL
    EOW: Tuesday, November 4, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Police Officer Nathaniel Burnfield
    South Strabane Township Police Department, PA
    EOW: Tuesday, November 4, 2008
    Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle

    Police Officer Charles Skinner
    North Salt Lake Police Department, UT
    EOW: Friday, November 7, 2008
    Cause of Death: Vehicle pursuit

    Deputy Sheriff Lawrence Canfield
    Sacramento County Sheriff's Department, CA
    EOW: Wednesday, November 12, 2008
    Cause of Death: Motorcycle accident

    Sergeant Monty Carmikle
    Arkansas Game and Fish Commission, AR
    EOW: Sunday, November 16, 2008
    Cause of Death: Aircraft accident

    Sergeant Timothy Simpson
    Philadelphia Police Department, PA
    EOW: Monday, November 17, 2008
    Cause of Death: Vehicular assault

    Special Agent Samuel Hicks
    United States Department of Justice - Fede..., US
    EOW: Wednesday, November 19, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Police Officer Alex Del Rio
    Hollywood Police Department, FL
    EOW: Saturday, November 22, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Deputy Sheriff Nick Pham
    Monroe County Sheriff's Office, FL
    EOW: Wednesday, November 26, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Sheriff Brent Lee
    Trinity County Sheriff's Department, TX
    EOW: Thursday, November 27, 2008
    Cause of Death: Vehicle pursuit

    Reserve Officer Curtis Jones
    New Orleans Police Department, LA
    EOW: Saturday, November 29, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Police Officer Robert Davis
    San Antonio Police Department, TX
    EOW: Monday, December 1, 2008
    Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle

    Police Officer Timothy Abernethy
    Houston Police Department, TX
    EOW: Sunday, December 7, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire

    Deputy Sheriff Brian Denning
    Sumner County Sheriff's Department, TN
    EOW: Monday, December 8, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Captain Tom Tennant
    Woodburn Police Department, OR
    EOW: Friday, December 12, 2008
    Cause of Death: Bomb

    Senior Trooper William Hakim
    Oregon State Police, OR
    EOW: Saturday, December 13, 2008
    Cause of Death: Bomb

    Officer Joseph Sanders
    California Highway Patrol, CA
    EOW: Monday, December 15, 2008
    Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle

    Police Officer Mark Simmons
    Amarillo Police Department, TX
    EOW: Wednesday, December 17, 2008
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident
    Deputy Sheriff Jeremy Keith Carter
    Evangeline Parish Sheriff's Department, LA
    EOW: Friday, December 19, 2008
    Cause of Death: Duty related illness

    Deputy Sheriff William K. Chadwell
    Pickaway County Sheriff's Office, OH
    EOW: Wednesday, December 24, 2008
    Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle
    Police Officer Mason Samborski
    Oak Park Police Department, MI
    EOW: Sunday, December 28, 2008
    Cause of Death: Gunfire
     
    G

    Guest

    Guest
    Re: Doh!

    Take a look at those CODs.

    You want to protect us worthless dumb cops? STOP DRIVING.
     
    G

    Guest

    Guest
    Re: Doh!

    Now, according to the NTOA (National Tactical Officers Association), here is the list of every officer killed by a firearm accident in the history of modern North American policing:

    March 5, 1913
    Spokane Police Department, Washington
    Officer Frederick E. Goddard

    February 12, 1939
    Spokane Police Department, Washington
    Officer John H. Miller

    June 24, 1971
    Wilmington Police Department, North Carolina
    Officer C.A. Davis

    June 18, 1973
    Camden Police Department, Arkansas
    Patrolman Grady Van Wilson

    April 21, 1977
    Oklahoma City Police Department, Oklahoma
    Sergeant Terry Glen Lawson

    August 9, 1977
    Hickory Police Department, North Carolina
    Officer Jerald Wayne Maynor

    August 17, 1979
    Farmington Police Department, New Mexico
    Lt. Owen A. Landdeck

    July 5, 1981
    Fredericton Police Department, New Brunswick, Canada
    Constable Perley S. Calhoun

    July 18, 1982
    Lawrence County Sheriff’s Department, Lawrence County, TN
    Deputy Sheriff James A. Lovelace

    September 16, 1983
    Texas Department of Public Safety, Texas
    Captain Robert R. Jones

    November 9, 1983
    Apache Junction, Arizona
    Officer Russell Lowell Duncan

    August 24, 1984
    U.S. Capitol Police, Washington, D.C.
    Sergeant Christopher S. Eney

    August 16, 1985
    Aurora Police Department, Colorado
    Officer Thomas J. Dietzman, Jr.

    February 23, 1986
    West Jordan Police Department, Utah
    Officer Thomas M. Rees

    July 9, 1986
    Clayton County Sheriff’s Department, Georgia
    Lieutenant Robert Gerald Bridges

    December 10, 1987
    Fort Wayne Police Department, Indiana
    Officer Omega Graham

    April 11, 1990
    Cedar Hill Police Department, Texas
    Patrolman Grady Morris Lamb

    August 12, 1991
    United States Air Force Security Police, Fort Dix, NJ
    Security Policeman Sean Elms

    October 12, 1992
    North Charleston Police Department, South Carolina
    Officer James Simmons

    February 6, 1993
    Niagara Regional Police, Ontario, Canada
    Constable Jeffrey Paolozzi

    March 30, 1993
    Brookfield Police Department, Wisconsin
    Corporal Jeffrey Gusinda

    October 20, 1993
    Rock Island Police Department, Illinois
    Auxiliary Officer Todd Johnson

    December 25, 1993
    Orange County Sheriff’s Department, California
    Deputy Darryn L. Robins

    May 15, 1994
    Palo Alto Police Department, California
    Reserve Officer Theodore Herman Brassinga

    August 26, 1996
    Louisiana Dept. of Public Safety and Corrections, Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Probation Officer David Glen Seymour

    March 4, 1999
    Nebraska State Patrol, Nebraska
    Trooper Mark Paul Wagner

    September 12, 2000
    Clackamas County Sheriff’s Department, Oregon
    Deputy Sheriff William Douglas Bowman

    June 7, 2001
    Arlington Police Department, Texas
    Corporal Joseph Cushman

    October 17, 2001
    Calgary Police Service, Alberta, Canada
    Constable Darren L. Beatty

    December 27, 2001
    East Providence Police Department, Rhode Island
    Major Alister C. McGregor

    January 14, 2004
    Prattville Police Department, Alabama
    Officer Clinton Earl Walker

    March 25, 2005
    Easton Police Department, Pennsylvania
    Officer Jesse Sollman

    September 13, 2005
    Kennesaw Police Department, Georgia
    Officer Tara Drummond

    November 22, 2005
    Mexia School District Police Department, Texas
    Sergeant Scott Neal

    December 6, 2006
    Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bowling Green, Virginia
    Supervisory Special Agent Gregory Rahoi

    September 29, 2007
    Gary Police Department, Indiana
    Auxiliary Officer Kevin Weaver

    December 19, 2007
    Port of Corpus Christi Police Department, Texas
    Officer James Saavedra

    Again, I will do some math for you. Thats 37 officers in 94 YEARS.

    Still sticking with that fucking 10%?
     

    Grump

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Oct 23, 2008
    1,215
    10
    62
    So. Utah
    Re: Doh!

    Absolutely not, sir. I hope you did notice the question mark at the end of what was a gross error in recollection. I may have been misremembering from the vehicular accidents (not driven over/vehicular attack by perps) figures.

    In 2008, looks like heart attacks significantly outnumbered the accidental shootings.

    Driving remains a large hazard.

    Hardly any accidental shootings the first 60 years of the 20th Century (2), then they increase to eventually become almost an annual event of from one to four. Would like to know the rate per 100,000 officers per year to see whether it's really getting that much worse, or it just reflects a larger population.

    So, for officer safety during training, I would still conclude that the safest thing to do would order lunch in, keep the officers out of their cars, remove all need to re-arm before going out because they're not going out, and make lunch only American Heart Association-approved, no more than 30% of the calories from fat, meals. Donut (only 1 each) at the END of the day.

    I can't imagine any decent life without at least some donuts.
     
    G

    Guest

    Guest
    Re: Doh!

    I missed the "?" in your post. I apologize for the assjumping.

    The heart attack in LE is a scary thing:

    You go to the acad and run your ass off. You get out and sit in a car for 7.5 hrs per day. Your heart gets used to being sedentary. Then, occasionally, it goes from 60bpm to 200bpm. This fucks with your heart. Add a life of junk food, nicotine and booze, and you see where the problem lies. Couple this with ONCE PER YEAR fitness evals, which are "fudged" half the time.

    On top of that, you get young guys with undiagnosed heart issues. And, (it does happen) guys literally get scared to death. Going from Condition White to Black (Street Survival series) with nothing in between, and this can happen.

    Only recently, did heart attacks and the like actually become LOD deaths. Before that, it wasnt considered a LOD death if you had a heart attack while chasing a suspect or something like that.

    Worse yet, you get guys like the guy who's story got posted on here, who are pushing 300lbs or more. That heart is a ticking time bomb on patrol.

    Hell, at my age (still relatively young), its tough chasing a 20 year old suspect on foot. Even if we are in the same shape - he isnt carrying the belt and armor.

    As for lunch, I think that is a fucking great idea. Ive gotta admit, in all the trainings Ive been to, Ive never even heard that idea brought up.

    Maybe it should be. Sometimes, a fresh set of eyes on a problem is all you need to fix it. This damn well might be one of those cases. I plan on bringing that up before our next departmental DT yearly training.