I was thinking along the same lines.
Recoil is a necessary force
I’d think so as well
Just replied to dill..
Yeah but I would think that would cause all kinds of harmonic issues. That force is going somewhere
What if it does? You going to carry around a big solid mount every time you want to shoot?
Im on the same boat but then I actually want to know if they work lights out.
I agree
Sounds good to me, it’s a plus plus if it works
1) no led sled, ever 2) method works in 22 lr with tuner free-recoil or held 3) positive compensation tuning works with No Tuner in centirefire, from bipod or benchrest except in extreme design cases Discussed ad nauseum. JMHO . Ymmv. IDGAF
yawn. enjoy the ignore list. Hope that wedding goes well. Im sure by then you'll have some other excuse to not have bought it, while you continue to piss and moan and whine and bitch 18+ pages later about a product you dont even own.
mount the action to a solid block...like the ammo testing centers do? I mentioned that earlier.
It don't matter if I test or not. An uneducated cock snot like you is so ignorant you have no idea how ridiculous you appear. I hope you do put me on ignore. There's absolutely nothing about tuners I or anybody else can learn from you. You're basically useless.
In my experience making a rigid rifle is counter productive to a tuner. Another problem is high frequency would be exaggerated with reflective frequencies that if at the muzzle when the bullet leaves is going to give you a random dispersion . Same thing happens with chassis on traditionally held rifles .
You are 100% correct how ever tuners do help with rifles that people choose to build that way.
Absolutely but the tuners effect would be very small compared to a rifle that is more flexible. As to the reflective high frequency ,If you ever see a spot where at a particular velocity the bullets all open up evenly in all directions really bad this is most likely high frequency. The simple fix is to stay away from that velocity. No big deal . Anything metal like Chassis guns and scope mounts have a potential to vibrate against each other even if bolted super tight. Bedding them to insulate the barreled action from the metal to metal contact helps . or reducing the footprint with mounting bumps Now if the high frequency is not at the muzzle this is all mute because then is does not effect the accuracy at all . High frequency traveling back and forth will hit the muzzle approx. 7 times before the bullet exits so there usually is a wide window of exit timing with no worries , however with reflective frequencies added in the window is much narrower due to the additional reflective frequencies hitting the muzzle. The cause of this high frequency is pressure lock up of all metallic parts. This is the most destructive mode and still present on every gun no matter what type of stock . As we discussed earlier Mark one way is to attack it at the source. neck size only over full length resizing reduced it significantly and in combination with using grease over oil on the lugs of the bolt reduced the high frequency to almost nothing. Another way is to shorten the barrel 1 inch. this is a bit extreme but at the time I was set on the bullet and the velocity and the high frequency was exactly at that velocity, but after shortening and re mounting the brake / tuner the high frequency was no where in the area. Threaded joints actually have a slight damping effect so there is still some damping going at the muzzle with a brake or tuner providing it is tight lol.
Chassis do introduce more vibration into rifle apposed to wood stock it shows up in your scope and high scopes high mounts and high rings and bipod extensions also cause issues with vibration the above issues were noted as problems in f class many years ago.
side question
A few months ago one of the well known elr guys using one of my tuner brakes asked if i could solve a problem of the plex in his scope vibrating after each shot . I told him no. He was using a tall moa base and tall rings to see over his long barrel and was using a bipod extension. I told him the issues he was his chassis scope height and bi pod set up he wanted to argue with me. I told him it was a common issue with his set up and if he wanted proof to remove bipod extension and test it. He did and came back with a reply a few ways later and said half of it was gone i said great now get a better caliber that shoots flatter. drop your scope down and get a better stock that absorbs shock. And install hydrolics in recoil pad . If you look at the stock that was used by keith trapp that john pierce designed its lamanated basal wood wrapped with carbon fiber low center of gravity design with hydrolics. The rolex of platforms.
I shoot with Dave Walls on occasion who is the owner of AI rifles and spoke with him about that very subject and you are correct ,they plastic coated their chassis to eliminate the issues discussed which I thought was a great idea, but I have not seen personally because I have not shot enough with a chassis gun but the ones I did shoot could feel the shock more so in my hands. Years ago it was noted by some shooters in benchrest that had tried metal stocks. Some had less accuracy and some did not . I was speaking with a general at Quantico during demo day and was telling him about the potential issues with the Remington chassis and the deputy director for the FBI came up and was listening in and , the general asked me how they could fix the issue, I replied to bed the stock and the FBI director kind of jumped in said their guys did it and all guns shot better, the general looked at me and smiled and said"good man!, I want all info on this and come see me in that tent before you leave" lol. My belief is chassis guns can shoot just as well as stocks with fiberglass ,etc every once in a while you might see issues. I am absolutely not saying chassis guns dont shoot. They do, I am just saying the potential is there and may not even be effecting but if it is these are the fixes. also if the action has two screws instead of three even with bedding the action can flex way from the bedding . The ultimate is gluing the action which can have a better damping effect because there is no loss of contact between the mounting screws under recoil.
The very reason this works so well full epoxy incapacitated and cant get any lower center of gravity also bo needfor bipod extension
Well may it have been talked about but, I want to see the statistical relevance of the theory.
In simple terms a stiff stock keeps a barrel from bending. I have a patented mechanism that uses the stock and makes the system stiff which turns off the positive compensation for short range and turns it on for extreme ranges. As to high frequency ,while adjusting a tuner with straight up and down shots one day I was going through the differing powder charges checking the width of the window of exit timing. Right in the middle of the window there was a area in which the differing loads no longer hit vertically. The shots were scattering all directions and the tuner would not fix it , but 1 grain difference either direction then the shots went back to straight up and down and the tuner adjusted them perfectly. These are some of the problems I ran in to when working with tuners that were a problem so much so that I had to stop the tuner research for almost a year and concentrated on just the high frequency vibrations research. I found the cause and the remedy by assuming it was high frequency then methodically went through the different possible fixes and through trial and error found what worked and what did not work. I fixed it and reduced it to nothing based on my assumption that is was high frequency. I have talked with vibration engineers about this to gain some ideas how to fix this issue and they were very helpful as well.
I am extremely reluctant to even speak on the subject especially with you because you are stubborn and bullheaded and can't see past the nose on your face however I will once attempt to make things really simple so that perhaps you might understand. First of all the person that desires to have a rifle that functions as a Swiss watch. There are many things that have to be taken into consideration. The last thing you want to do is build a rifle platformer that causes your Barrel to be a tuning fork. Some of it is unavoidable. Some of the issues have nothing to do with accuracy. As far as harmonic dampening and the dreaded and much debated word canceling. It is used and many Industries Automotive and Aviation just to start. Even in Industries like nuclear. when the turbines are out of balance they create a resonant vibration that can be felt and heard over the entire plant. How is it solved weight is added and specific locations so that council out the harmonics some harmonic tuners are even designed to shift and move during the function of movement. I am not going to argue with you on this and I do not have to prove anything to you when dozens of Industries and engineers have been using harmonic dampening and tuning for many many years if you cannot understand and believe that then I am at a loss. Even a person who plays a guitar understand that frequencies are affected by essentially changing the oscillation and vibration to speed up and slow down hormonic vibration to create a different results.
Correct.Damping, not “dampening”.
Why are you reluctant to speak?
I bet you lou uses tuners. And I am also willing to bet that you're part of the flat-earth group? It would be my guess that you tried a tuner and it did not seem to make a difference on your specific build perhaps the tuner that you used was not efficient enough to make a difference on your platform. Or perhaps you have no clue on how to operate a tuner and you yourself did not take the time to test it Beyond 100 yards. Perhaps your rifle is accurate enough that you can't see a difference at 100 yards.. your personal experience tells you that they don't work there for you demand statistics. Perhaps you should go learn a little bit about tuners how to test them oh, how to adjust them, and do further testing distance. Before you come on to a forum and demand statistical proof they work. I am reluctant because I'm dealing with a narrow minded person it doesn't understand physics
I don't know if Lou uses tuners or not.
You can kind of test with 3 shot groups but, it might be a true indicator or, it might not either &, that can work both ways meaning, you could just as easily dismiss a good setting because 1 errant shot makes the group look bad. There's probably as much chance as the group showing a good setting as a bad setting but, if the group looks good on a particular setting with 3 shots, all you have to do is verify with a couple 5 shot groups or 1 x 10 shot group.And that was the problem I had with my tuner and why I simply removed it. It seems like you should be able to tune using less ammo than just performing load development. But that wasn't my experience. I'm willing to bet you expend just as much components tuning, the tuner. Especially since half of load development is figuring out your charge weight, desired velocity, and pressure. Which a tuner won't solve for you. It's all a matter of seating depth test or shooting 3 shot groups every indexed line on the tuner. Potato = potato
Yes, I have mentioned shooter input previously.
Yes, I think all the footage I've seen shows the bullet exit before any discernible barrel movement but, there is one study where they used a new method to capture very small muzzle movement. I've been trying to find that study however, although I believe the measurement method seemed sound, I believe they had some difficulty with synchronizing the muzzle movement to the IB process. I can't recall exactly the issue but, I do remember deciding that the experiment was less than convincing at the time.
