Has been minus 15 df here for a week and more to come. No wood stove, gas heat, electric oven, gas log fireplace. What would you use for a heat source if the gas and/or electricity were shut down? Gas company tells me very unlikely, but has happened in the past. If elect goes down, then gas furnace will not light and run? Can a log fireplace be set up to convert to outside propane source? At one time, I have seen space heaters (not electric) that claimed to be safe indoors? Generator? How much trouble to hook one up? Probably overreacting, but bothers me that we could loose heat and freeze up ourselfves and water pipes. Thanks. Ron.
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Get a generator if you can and have a transfer switch put it so it will run your furnace if power goes out. If power goes out alot then a good back up would be a wise investment. If not like me then a portable works. I have a 5000 and it will run most of my house including oil furnace.
They make vent free gas heaters. You have a gas tank or line to your house?
They make vent free gas heaters. You have a gas tank or line to your house?
Looks like a small generator with transfer switch would be good. I will contact an electric person to see what is involved. Thanks. Ron.
I was talking to a guy a while ago who bought something like. this: Triple-Fuel (LP Gas, Natural Gas & Gasoline) 8,750 Watt Generator
Which would solve any fuel issues.
Which would solve any fuel issues.
A generator with a transfer switch installed by a licensed electrician is the way to go. A 5000 watt portable is a good way to go and should power all the necessities. Over the last two years we have lost power for over a week four times so I installed a propane 14000 watt whole house unit that runs itself once a week. I have two 100 gallon tanks for supply. If I had other gas appliances I would have gone larger. Have it done professionally and inspected. There are a lot of horror stories of improper installations and usage accidents. Do it right.
Probably a small gen would be plenty. You have some cht coming your way now, Hammer. My SIL is in Conn. 28 yrs navy. They are in south part, so not as much crappy weather as northern parts, I guess. I was wondering how they hook it up so that it doesn't back up, in case I forgot to switch it. Some sort of auto thing I suppose? Thanks. Ron.
Yeah, some parts of the State faired better depending on the storm.We got nailed all four times. Mine is an auto start and basically runs itself. The transfer switch will detect the outage and tell the generator to start, and visa versa when power is restored. These systems are a little pricey but the advantage is you do not have to be home to set it up and get it running. Or keep enough gas on hand. It all depends what you want and/or need. If you just want some piece of mind and a back up, then a smaller portable should be fine. After four week long outages, I just had enough and bit the bullet. Sounds like your'e planning ahead, because it's never fun to try to find one during a big event, trust me.
I can't believe you didn't loose power during Sandy, you were on the better end of the Sound! My other "hat" at work is Emergency Management Director and I had to cancel Halloween TWICE! They call me the Halloween Grinch now.
When we lived in waaaaaaaaay rural Montana we had multiple heat and cooking sources.
Oil
Coal
Propane ( LNG actually )
Wood.
Something about -20 with a cold front coming that lends itself to being a bit over prepared.
Oil
Coal
Propane ( LNG actually )
Wood.
Something about -20 with a cold front coming that lends itself to being a bit over prepared.
Well I was actually stuck in the Dominican Republic during Sandy as we were supposed to fly back in on Sunday and all flights were canceled. But our friends who were evacuated stayed at our house and they had power and cable the whole time. I was surprised. Halloween grinch is funny.LOL
Get yourself a 30,000 btu natural gas space heater.
No electricity required.
I use one and my furnace rarely comes on.
I've been in the interstate gas transmission business for 23 years.
My wife has been in the electric distribution business for 12 years.
Largely due to electrical lines being above ground your far more likely to experience the loss of electricity than the loss of gas service.
No electricity required.
I use one and my furnace rarely comes on.
I've been in the interstate gas transmission business for 23 years.
My wife has been in the electric distribution business for 12 years.
Largely due to electrical lines being above ground your far more likely to experience the loss of electricity than the loss of gas service.
He Rob, that's cool. If you see a little fella called Norm, tell him hi and GO BRONCOS!! We lived in rural areas for 40
yrs, but had to move to town for health reasons. Had a wood stove or fireplace all that time. But not now. It's hard to not
be somewhat self reliant, as you have to be in the country. Ron.
yrs, but had to move to town for health reasons. Had a wood stove or fireplace all that time. But not now. It's hard to not
be somewhat self reliant, as you have to be in the country. Ron.
Had a wall furnace that ran on nat gas and piezoelectric on/off. But had a chimney, not safe in house without exhaust.
Is that what you refer to Odonnks? We lived on edge of small town in NoCentral Wyo, for 5 years. Electric was always going off.
A transformer kept flipping or blowing up right next to our house. First time, it sounded like a cannon! After that scare, got used to it. One time it blew and started a fire in the borrow ditch. The fire dept came and put it out. There was a lake nearby and geese, etc. kept flying into the power lines. Ron.
Is that what you refer to Odonnks? We lived on edge of small town in NoCentral Wyo, for 5 years. Electric was always going off.
A transformer kept flipping or blowing up right next to our house. First time, it sounded like a cannon! After that scare, got used to it. One time it blew and started a fire in the borrow ditch. The fire dept came and put it out. There was a lake nearby and geese, etc. kept flying into the power lines. Ron.
I live in TX so it doesn't get incredibly cold. The coldest I have to deal with where I hunt is 20 degrees, but our cabin has no electricity, gas, etc. We have a small camping type indoor propane heater:
Mr. Heater - America's Most Popular Portable Heaters
We run it on a 1 lb propane tank and it will heat our 10'x20' cabin up to a comfortable temp in 30 mins or so. It will run for about 6 hours straight. If you get an adapter and keep a couple 20 lb tanks, it could keep a bedroom in your house warm for quite some time until you can get proper gas/electricity back. It's not ideal but would keep you from freezing to death rather inexpensively and unlike a generator, it is pretty simple and foolproof.
-Dan
Mr. Heater - America's Most Popular Portable Heaters
We run it on a 1 lb propane tank and it will heat our 10'x20' cabin up to a comfortable temp in 30 mins or so. It will run for about 6 hours straight. If you get an adapter and keep a couple 20 lb tanks, it could keep a bedroom in your house warm for quite some time until you can get proper gas/electricity back. It's not ideal but would keep you from freezing to death rather inexpensively and unlike a generator, it is pretty simple and foolproof.
-Dan
Bingo! That was what I remember seeing. And available in 4 places right here in river city. Will look around. Just need, at least for short term outages, something to keep house above 32 df to prevent pipes freezing. Thanks. Ron.
I was referring to a heater like this.
RedStone™ Dual Fuel Gas Infrared Heater with Thermostat, 30,000 BTU - Tractor Supply Co.
They are vent-less and require no electricity or chimney to the outside.
I run one in my home, barn and garage. If you have natural gas it'll run.
I also have a propane Mr heater that I've used camping and believe the highest output Mr Heater is 18,000 btu.
The problem with these is that they work well with the small disposable cylinders and will go through them quick.
They offer the accessories to use larger grill or camper type cylinders but you should never bring one of those indoors. Modern propane cylinders have internal relief valves. As the cylinder heats up inside the home it can vent propane out the internal relief valve and if it does it'll vent into your room. This situation will end up very bad since your running heater is the perfect ignition source.
Don't let anyone tell you having a grill or camper style cylinder inside you home is safe. I've witnessed a internal relief vent propane when a cylinder was placed in a heated garage.
If you go the Mr Heater route get a long enough hose to locate the cylinder outdoors.
RedStone™ Dual Fuel Gas Infrared Heater with Thermostat, 30,000 BTU - Tractor Supply Co.
They are vent-less and require no electricity or chimney to the outside.
I run one in my home, barn and garage. If you have natural gas it'll run.
I also have a propane Mr heater that I've used camping and believe the highest output Mr Heater is 18,000 btu.
The problem with these is that they work well with the small disposable cylinders and will go through them quick.
They offer the accessories to use larger grill or camper type cylinders but you should never bring one of those indoors. Modern propane cylinders have internal relief valves. As the cylinder heats up inside the home it can vent propane out the internal relief valve and if it does it'll vent into your room. This situation will end up very bad since your running heater is the perfect ignition source.
Don't let anyone tell you having a grill or camper style cylinder inside you home is safe. I've witnessed a internal relief vent propane when a cylinder was placed in a heated garage.
If you go the Mr Heater route get a long enough hose to locate the cylinder outdoors.
So that only runs about 6 hrs on 1 1lb bottle?
I didn't know about them venting, so thanks for the info! I do know that they are not supposed to be brought indoors, and there is probably good cause for that. The best bet would be to set the tank outside the window and leave the window open just wide enough to fit the hose under. These heaters don't put out CO, but they can deplete enough of the O2 in an enclose space to make it a bad place for you to breathe in. I bought a 6 or 10 ft. hose for ours last month to be able to use the 20 lb tanks, but have not used it in that manner yet. We really just use the heater to get the chill out of the cabin then shut if off for a few hours until it gets cold again. In an emergency with no electricity, it is cheap insurance to keep you warm.
Yeah, it will run about 6 hours. They do sell a kit to refill your 1 lb. propane bottles with a 20 lb. tank, which would make it much cheaper and also eliminate the issues with having a 20 lb. tank indoors.
The backup generator with the transfer switch is the way to go. However, in a pinch you can use a heavy guage extension cord that has two males ends with a portable generator. You must first isolate the furnace circuit, which is pretty straightforward since almost all furnaces are on thier own breaker/circuit and have one outlet on the circuit. From there you plug one end into the generator and the other end into the outlet on the circuit. Just make sure that you first isolate the circuit......If you don't when the power comes back on it will fry your generator. Again, this is strictly for emergency purposes and a transfer switch/backup generator is a much better solution.
this won't solve the big problem, but they'll do in a pinch, or help if you want to conserve generator fuel:
You can make a little space heater with a bread tin, two planter pots, and some tea candles. candles have a ~5 hour burn time. google it if you want to see how to make one, there's about a million different designs out there.
For example:
Candle Powered Pottery Heater
You can make a little space heater with a bread tin, two planter pots, and some tea candles. candles have a ~5 hour burn time. google it if you want to see how to make one, there's about a million different designs out there.
For example:
Candle Powered Pottery Heater
All propane heaters produce some level of CO, if there is an open flame from a fuel fired appliance, there is CO. The O2 depletion sensor is there for two reasons 1) because the flame is taking in O2 as part of the process and 2) because the CO2 level could become greater than the O2 level, in effect depleting it. Could a small ventless heater deplete enough O2 or produce enough CO2 in a normal home? Probably not. They should not be used in small, closed spaces. Please follow the manufactures guidelines. And if you use any device, please have a least one CO detector in the house.
I have been using one in the evenings here at the house and 2-1 pound bottles lasts maybe 6 hours . If you ran it on the low setting it would last longer I am sure but with 4 women in the house right now no heat source is set on "Low".
I wouldn't be so worried about frying the generator as I would smoking some poor lineman working on the downed lines . Remember , those transformers work in both directions so if it transforms 50,000 volts down to 110 it will transform 110 to 50,000 . If your gonna resort to a hack-fu fix like a double ended plug make damn sure you can disconnect your panel from the utility side . Some panels will have a "Main" you can switch off for the whole panel , others not so much .
While what Paraman says is true, I don't know of any generator that will run with the load of a city/town/block on it. The only time I was around when a generator was "double-plugged" into a house and the Main wasn't turned off, said generator stalled out instantly, due to the massive load.
The Main was turned off, and then generator restarted, and the "one side" of the panel was now live. If you're going to do this, (not recommended) then ensure your load in the house does not max out the generator. (unplug or flip breakers for the fridge/freezer and other high-load items on that side of the breaker panel)
Much more importantly though, to ensure there is no fire hazard, either limit the load to just the furnace-fan and a few lights at most, or upgrade the supply line to the panel. This being said, because the average person will just plug the cord into any wall outlet (generally outside). Don't forget, that the Lumex supplying this plug is most probably 14/2 and that is NOT LARGE ENOUGH to carry the load of a house.
Again, doing any of this is not recommended. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. The last thing you want during a power outage, is a house fire, let alone one that is in the walls.
Have I said yet, that this manner is NOT RECOMMENDED?
The Main was turned off, and then generator restarted, and the "one side" of the panel was now live. If you're going to do this, (not recommended) then ensure your load in the house does not max out the generator. (unplug or flip breakers for the fridge/freezer and other high-load items on that side of the breaker panel)
Much more importantly though, to ensure there is no fire hazard, either limit the load to just the furnace-fan and a few lights at most, or upgrade the supply line to the panel. This being said, because the average person will just plug the cord into any wall outlet (generally outside). Don't forget, that the Lumex supplying this plug is most probably 14/2 and that is NOT LARGE ENOUGH to carry the load of a house.
Again, doing any of this is not recommended. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. The last thing you want during a power outage, is a house fire, let alone one that is in the walls.
Have I said yet, that this manner is NOT RECOMMENDED?
Sounds right. I found the rated times and they are 3 hours on high, 6 on low. I must have been using it set on low. Like I said I don't use the thing often, but if I lived in a cold enough climate, I'd keep one around as a last ditch backup if power goes out and the generator doesn't want to start.
I'm a little skeptical that a 5Kw backup is going to power a complete city block as well. However, I thought that I made it completely clear in my first post that the furnace circuit needs to be isolated. And since most furnaces are are thier own circuit, and most have one outlet wired right at the furnace, it is a simple task by just shutting off that breaker. Now that circuit is isolated from the rest of the home electrical system. Of course it is a safety feature to shut down the main breaker as well isolating the houses whole electrical system from the grid. My approach will only allow the furnace to run and I agree that I would not attempt this approach to "feed" any other circuits in the event of a house fire like Nailer mentions. But with a heavy guage male/male extension running from outside where the generator is to the furnace circuit via a window or door, you can/should periodically check to see that the extension cord isn't getting too hot reducing the possibility of a fire. Remember too, that I'm not offering up this advice as the best solution to the problem. Just a short term, emergency solution so the OP doesn't freeze to death or have a house full of exploded water lines.
While we are talking about the subject, I find it so funny what some people choose to spend money on while building a new home. A friend of mine just got done building a $325K home in the PGH area and I mentioned to him that a backup generator, natural gas and with a legit transfer switch, would be a great add-on. He replied that the expense would be too much.......I'm thinking whats an additional $10K when your spending $325K already. They did spend
$5k on custom blinds though.........
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Lot's of good advise. Now, I have to follow up and just do it. Seems like the Mr Heater might work best in the house. I also would like to have some heat in my attached garage, but may stub in a gas heater for that. Hard to get enthused about working on reloading and guns at 33 degrees. I did put up a heat lamp over my bench, and that helped some. I learned not to get my head too close to it, though, lol. Again, thanks, you helped me figure things out. Supposed to be 30 df here today, what me worry? Ron.
I'm a little skeptical that a 5Kw backup is going to power a complete city block as well. However, I thought that I made it completely clear in my first post that the furnace circuit needs to be isolated. And since most furnaces are are thier own circuit, and most have one outlet wired right at the furnace, it is a simple task by just shutting off that breaker. Now that circuit is isolated from the rest of the home electrical system. Of course it is a safety feature to shut down the main breaker as well isolating the houses whole electrical system from the grid. My approach will only allow the furnace to run and I agree that I would not attempt this approach to "feed" any other circuits in the event of a house fire like Nailer mentions. But with a heavy guage male/male extension running from outside where the generator is to the furnace circuit via a window or door, you can/should periodically check to see that the extension cord isn't getting too hot reducing the possibility of a fire. Remember too, that I'm not offering up this advice as the best solution to the problem. Just a short term, emergency solution so the OP doesn't freeze to death or have a house full of exploded water lines.
While we are talking about the subject, I find it so funny what some people choose to spend money on while building a new home. A friend of mine just got done building a $325K home in the PGH area and I mentioned to him that a backup generator, natural gas and with a legit transfer switch, would be a great add-on. He replied that the expense would be too much.......I'm thinking whats an additional $10K when your spending $325K already. They did spend
$5k on custom blinds though.........
I think the intent was to prevent back feeding during a wide spread outage. I've heard and seen horror stories where someone runs a cord to their dryer outlet without shutting off the main, thus send power out to the street. That would wreck some poor lineman's day. Done correctly it's an option, just like you said though, not advised. Would it power the block, no but it would suck, as well as when line power was restored. The moral of the story is to be safe and have a clue what you are doing. Always defer to a licensed electrician or gas guy. I am neither, just a Fireman and Fire Marshal who has seen some stupid shit.
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