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Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Anniesthesia

Private
Minuteman
Feb 7, 2011
4
0
33
North Central AR
Hey guys, Annie checking in,

I know there are few posts with the same questions and advice that I am looking for, and I have read them all. (A few times lol.) However I am looking for a bit more detailed information for someone that has never owned a firearm.

I'm not trying to bore you with all the details, but a few months ago over christmas break I rather reluctantly made a trip to the local range with a friends brother who wanted to sight in his .270 hunting rifle. I've never really had any desire to fire a gun before, but I had the chance to shoot it and all I can say is "Wow! I have been bitten by the bug!"

So, with that being said, I started looking around the internet and came across these forums where I have found some great information for beginners and experienced shooters alike. (Thank you!). As a college student with roughly a ~$1000 budget I am looking primarily at a couple of rifles that will suit my needs, as I will just be doing precision shooting at a local range... with maybe the possibility of some light competition further down the road.

What I have been looking at is a couple of variations of the Remington 700, namely the SPS Varmint, SPS Tactical and the SPS Tactical AAC-SD. I understand that there is a decrease in velocity with a shorter barrel, but is it really all that important? From what I understand it's a ~250 fps difference between the 20" Tactical vs the 26" on the varmint. How will this affect (if any) accuracy at the higher ranges?

As far as the stock goes, I definitely plan on replacing it with something better down the road, but for now as a a beginner, would I be better off with something as plain as the one that comes with the Varmint, or is the little bit of extra initial cost for the Tactical AAC-SD and it's pillar bedded stock be worth it? (As well as the 1-10 twist and the threaded barrel.)

Now on to the glass, and this is where I am the most confused. (Yay! More research.) I admit that I am completely clueless as far as magnification and such is concerned, but I do understand the concepts of turrets and mildot reticles. I have been looking primarily at a Millet 4-16x50 Tactical and a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40 since these are the only 2 reasonably priced scopes locally within my budget. Depending on which version of the SPS I get will probably determine which scope I start out with.

I apologize if this post is a bit too long, but I literally have a TON of questions that I will eventually get around to asking. However, with what I have posted above, am I close to something that would be decent for a beginner? Or am I not on paper?


Thanks !
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

I would go with the standard tactical rifle. You just now getting into this sport leads me to believe you won't be buying a supressor anytime soon. You don't need a brake on it either with that light of a recoiling gun. The Tactical comes with a better stock than the Varmint (although its not a great stock).


I would go with the Bushnell scope to start with. It is a reliable piece of glass for a decent price. Seen more people post failures and complaints about the Millet vs. the Bushy.

The 20" will not hold you back from anything.
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

You're all there as far as I can tell. Either of the guns will do what you want but the one thing you really need to consider that the cost of ammo is an ongoing expense and needs to be very highly considered before making a decision. That being said I’d like to say that the 223 version is probably more adequate for a new shooter because it will still provide a ton of experience like the 308 but it will also require less money to shoot per round (which adds up very fast) and recoils much less and you being a new shooter could prevent some detrimental flaws forming without notice. I'm not saying this is law and that you have to do what I say to the T but simply offering guidance to a new shooter.

But what I would really suggest more than anything is that you pick up a 22LR bolt rifle instead and learn off of that first simply because ammo is so cheap compared to center fires. You have plenty of options for comps still with a 22 and it will teach you all you need to know. I personally shot center fire rifles all my life and never really cared for rimfires but recently sold my deer gun and spent every one of my dollars on a good rimfire rig because in the long run it's going to help me enormously and I want to take full advantage of that.

If you're still set on a 700 then I would like to address your barrel length question first and foremost. 20 or 26 in has come up many times and the 26" does have more velocity but for the 308, a 20" will get you there. Again, you being a new shooter, I’m sorry to say but successful long range shooting may be a while away but when you do get there (and you will if you keep up with it) the 20" will deliver.

Next up is the issue with the stock. Both stocks are pretty much crap but either will do for a while... The one on the 20" models are better than the ones on the 26" models though (from the ones you have made note of at least; this 'rule' doesn't apply to all remmy's and especially not to the Police series). A new stock is such a major improvement for these rifles but it will be much better for you if you get used to them how they come from the factory and then getting a better model and seeing the crazy difference it makes for yourself.

The optics portion of your post is where most people will start to get unsure too so don't worry. There are a ton of terms that go along with scope and by searching around you should be able to learn whatever you need to. Any question you can possibly think of has been asked and answered a million times over. I'm overly happy with the Super Sniper 10x42 scope currently sitting on my rifle. Both scopes you mentioned are adequate for what you want to do. This isn't really an area I’m comfortable with unless I know EXACTLY what you the shooter wants the scope to be able to do. For the most part you're going to want to spend the most that you can on your glass because you truly do get what you pay for. Search around the optics section here and maybe send some PM's to a few members who seem to be knowledgeable on the topic and try to come to a conclusion based on that information.

I hope this helped in some way, shape, or form. If you have any further questions please feel free to PM me and I’ll do my best to answer you promptly and to the best of my abilities.

Sincerely,
-Dylan
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

It sounds like you haven't made up your mind, and by that I mean you haven't come to articulate conclusions about what you want and why. So, consider not buying anything just yet.
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Hey guys, Annie checking in,

I spent most of yesterday visiting some of the local shops to compare prices and availability, and I came across a very lightly used Anschutz 1903S for $450. After thinking about it, and then seeing the replies here, I have decided to go pick it up.

From what I understand, the Anschutz is a very good quality .22 and the bolt action should give me a good start on the basics and fundamentals for when I graduate to a larger caliber later. Plus the ammo is definitely cheaper.

Not only that, but while I learn the proper way to shoot, it will give me time to save up for one of the lower, high-end scopes. And then I can make the decision on which centerfire to go with.

I really appreciate the time you guys took to reply to my questions, but be forewarned! As I go along, I am almost positive that I will be back here from time to time with some much needed Q&A. I hope you are ready lol.


Thanks !
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

That's an excellent plan! I strongly advise learning fundamentals on a .22 using iron sights. It'll be a lot of fun, and Anschutz makes a very accurate, durable rifle.
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Wow, that actually made me think that this woman got the basic idea better than these stubborn ass men on here. I guess women are more open to accepting ideas than men, but she hit it perfect. That Anschutz purchase was a great buy, and it will be a perfect tool for you to learn basic marksmanship for the ammo price, and lack of recoil.
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Can I add a question to the mix? I've acctually been looking at purchaseing this exact same set up in the spring (no need now the range is under a foot of snow). I live in a state where a suppressor is not an option, but I was considering the aac for it's 1:10 twist. From what I've read the 1:10 is better for distance and the 175's. I'll probably just put a brake on it because I can not that the 308 needs one. I guess my question is is the AAc's 1:10 twist worth the extra money? I can pick one up new for 659. I'm just wondering if I need the 1:10?
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

I would not say that you absolutely need the 1:10 twist because my 1:12 with a 26" barrel sends 175's out to 1000 yards flawlessly. If it's a 20" barrel though, I would strongly suggest the 1:10 twist.
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

instead of spending any money on gear yet why dont you take a trip down to rifles only of or some place like ro and get some proper training before you teach yourself any bad habits...its much easier to learn right once instead of trying to break bad habits later...and after your done there you will have a much better idea about gear....its what i wish i would have done


jonathan
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jroberts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">instead of spending any money on gear yet why dont you take a trip down to rifles only of or some place like ro and get some proper training before you teach yourself any bad habits...its much easier to learn right once instead of trying to break bad habits later...and after your done there you will have a much better idea about gear....its what i wish i would have done


jonathan </div></div>

+1 Good advice, also read, listen, practice, and absorb as much as possible.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=237232#Post237232
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Hey Annie, can we see some pics of you in a Bikini
grin.gif
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jroberts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">instead of spending any money on gear yet why dont you take a trip down to rifles only of or some place like ro and get some proper training before you teach yourself any bad habits...its much easier to learn right once instead of trying to break bad habits later...and after your done there you will have a much better idea about gear....its what i wish i would have done


jonathan </div></div>

Hey I see your in Dover, I'm in Newark about an hr up Rt 1. Where do you shoot? Also I've been reading this site for a while now and amazed at the ammount of knowledge offered up here, usually free of judgement, and without malice. Thanks to all from just one newb your what really makes this site what it is.
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Hey guys, Annie checking in,

Thanks again for the great info, it's always good to be able to go somewhere and get advice from people that are courteous and knowledgeable.

@jroberts - I just got off the phone with the closest range and am going over there tomorrow to sign up for a membership. They have introductory classes for just about everything related to precision shooting. I can't wait!
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

A .22 won't get you to 1000yds though! Just kidding..

I have to admit.. this was a very refreshing thread. Great choices, you are off to an amazing start with realistic expectations. Welcome to the game.
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Thank you for being smart; that's really all I can say.
Too many people make stupid decisions and get off to a bad start in this sport and never make anything of themselves.
The Anschutz will be an amazingly strong foundation to start shooting off of.

Bust of luck and good shootin'
-Dylan
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Great thing about the .22 is you can get all the trigger time you can stand (which is the most important thing) without an impact to the pocketbook.

My 18 yr. old son wanted his first handgun for xmas...plenty of experience with our .308 and .223 rifles...but try as I might to convince him to go with a .22 for a first pistol he wouldn't hear of it. Got him a beaut of a CZ 9mm...but got Ruger 22/45's for myself and my wife. The .22's are a ton of fun to shoot...and accurate as well. And my son is finding out that budget doesn't allow for 300 rounds of 9mm every week!

I was amazed at the variety of .22LR ammo available- and just beginning to sort through the options.

Excellent choice for a target rifle.
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anniethesia</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> it's always good to be able to go somewhere and get advice from people that are courteous and knowledgeable.
</div></div>
What site are you on anyway? I didn't think SnipersHide was well know for it's courteous thoughtful advise! In all honesty though, the Anschutz is argueably the finest rimfire rifle made. You will be able to keep that rifle for several generations and not need to upgrade. Get a centerfire after you have learned everything you can about proper shooting techniques. See if you can get in on some local competitions and you will learn alot from more experienced shooters. Are you going to put a scope on the Anschutz, iron sights, or adjustable peep sights?
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Hey guys, Annie checking in,

Just wanted to stop in and give you guys an update of how my first day with the .22 went. Rather than starting a new thread I guess I'll keep things in here.

I joined a local range and had a chance to get some basic safety instructions with the range manager and then shoot a bit on my own. All in all everything went really well and I'm very glad that I went this route instead of the larger caliber.

The recoil is pretty much non-existent compared to the .270 that I shot a while back and I was surprised at how well I picked up being able to use the peep sights versus a scope. I did have an issue with eye dominance though... I'm right handed, but for some reason I keep tending to try and use my left eye. I'm sure this is something that other shooters have experienced, but I'm curious as to if there are any techniques that I can use to correct this?

The gun also shoots WAY better than I can. The instructor was able to put 5 shots inside of each other at 50 yds, but I didn't do so well lol. Practice, practice, practice though, right?


-------------------------------------------------------------


Oh, one last question... How often should I clean?

When I got back today, I inspected it and it was much dirtier than I thought. I think I remember reading somewhere that .22's are inherently dirtier than most other calibers, so I used a child sized toothbrush and scrubbed / wiped everything I could get to with solvent, then came back with a patch lightly coated with oil. The bore still looks very bright and shiny so I didn't so anything to it.

Does this sound about right?
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Annie,

Is your left or right eye the dominant one? This will lead to the answer to your problem. I know I read somewhere a very thurough writeup on eye dominance and how to shoot. I believe this particular wrteup was provided by Tres Mon, Sterling Shooter, Montana Marine, or maybe even LowLight. I'm not entirely sure. But I would suggest finding out which eye is dominant first off if you don't allready know. You say you're right handed, but that doesn't necesairily mean you must shoot that side of your body. I'm a firm believer that all shooters should practice not only strong side but also support side as well. For you I recomend trying both and try shooting with both eyes open on both sides as well. There are many ways to skin a cat and this situation is not much different. Try everything you can think of and remember whatever works best. Other than that all I can say is that you're going to have to try alot of different things before you find out what works best for you. And also keep in mind that whichever way you start with may be considered "improper" i.e. shooting left handed when you're right side dominant for example. Some shooters will look down upon this but I don't see why you should care. It might be detrimental to your progression as a shooter but I am unaware of this for sure, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable on the matter will chime in.

Now, the cleaning question. This is pretty heavily debated and what i'm about to say is JUST MY OPINION and I share it with many people who have done research on the subject. Cleaning your gun very often is unecessairy. I only clean my bores if something alien gets down them (water, dirt, etc, etc...) or when the accuracy starts to drop off. I take good care to make sure they are well taken care of externally and in the moving portions like the action as well but I don't clean the bores often. I probably clean them less than I should but it hasn't hurt anything yet. Honestly I don't belive that either which way you go you should really worry about it too much. As long as the firearm won't see prolonged lack of usage and neglect then I don't clean them. If they will sit in the safe they get a full teardown and scrubdown. aybe a 22 requires a bit more care than the average gun but I'm not sold yet. Do whatever makes you more comfortable I guess is what i'm getting at here.

Sorry for the length, I don't believe I accomplished much in this post.
-Dylan
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

Hi Annie
so about the cleaning dont worry about cleaning the barrel to much I harrdle ever clean mine like Dylan said just shoot it till you notice a drop in accuracy
keep your bolt and race ways clean , you probably don't nee to be using solvent on a rimfire just make sure you get it all off

most people clean there barrels to much and ruin them that way

I have had the wax lube running out the end of the barrel before and it still seems to shoot ok

also have a look at the online training on the hide it is some of the best info around , you will still learn alot just from this site even with out going the online training it is just a suggestion

also have a look at the rimfire comp I need to get into it myself it looks like heaps of fun and you will learn a lot rimfire comp

hope to see you in there

.Dave
 
Re: Entry Level Decisions - Critique Please

There is no hard and fast answer to the "eye" question.
You need to find what works for <span style="font-style: italic">you</span>...

Irons, I shoot one eye closed.
Scoped, I shoot both eyes open.
This is the opposite of what most do...

Experiment, and don't pay any attention to what others do in this regard. It's a very individualized aspect of shooting where there is no "right" or "wrong".

Here's an interesting read that sez both eyes open:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_55/ai_n31326575/


I do believe there may be other consideration related to handguns and self-defense as to positioning, but I know nothing about it, and that's a different animal, anyway...