• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

FLASHBACKS

kraigWY

CMP GSM MI
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 10, 2006
2,311
302
76
Wyoming
Took a motorcycle road trip to Portland to see my daughter. She took me to a Vietnamese restaurant.

Now I was never fond of Vietnamese food, even in the states where they don’t add leaches to the pot.

Oh well, a bit of fried rice, even they couldn’t screw up fried rice too much. But then, I spot in the coolor some “33” beer. It’s been a long time and I had to try it. After a six pack later, it still tasted good. Plus this was like no “33” beer I’ve had, IT WAS FROSTED.

Then to top is off, about 5 little girls, ranging from 6-10 years old, were brought out and sang in Vietnamese and swayed a little dance.

I guess I’m a bit different then most infantry vets from Vietnam, I love the Vietnamese people, and would love to go back.

Sure brought back some memories, good and bad.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

Kraig,

Sounds like a good time. Vietnamese food is interesting to say the least.

I understand what you mean about making you want to go back as I often experience this in Arab restaurants. During odd times in my life, I have even sought these places out to answer a question or to remember a smell to help a memory or hear a string of talking to help me piece together my best possible recollection.

If you are serious about going back to Vietnam to visit, I believe there are organizations that arrange such things. (Un)fortunately for us OIF and OEF (not me) vets the only way we are going back right now is if we get another tour or have a cool enough DD214 to contract.

I'm glad this wasn't a "I almost shot so and so because I thought I was somewhere else" thread.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(Un)fortunately for us OIF and OEF (not me) vets the only way we are going back right now is if we get another tour or have a cool enough DD214 to contract.</div></div>

Actually you can. My wife was deployed in 2003, and it drove me nuts. All I knew about war was from SE Asia. So I got a Kuwait Visa and flew over there to stay with her. From Kuwait you can drive to Iraq. Of course there is some rule that says if you're retired and over seas they have to put you up on military bases.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm glad this wasn't a "I almost shot so and so because I thought I was somewhere else" thread.</div></div>

Nah, I've saving that flashback for the dude that eyeballs my granddaughter.



 
Re: FLASHBACKS

I suppose I should have specified go back "safely".

You drove into Iraq? heh, I gotta hear this story.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You drove into Iraq? heh, I gotta hear this story.</div></div>


Wife worked for CFLCC C-2. After the fall of Baghdad they (5th Army Hqs) drove back and forth between Camp Doha and Baghdad. Obviously I couldn't go with them, but I linked up with some Civy Contrator friends of hers and went on a few trips with them. Actually we were billeted at Doha.

That was in '03 as I said. Before the roadside bombs. They drove SUVs furnished by the Kuwaitees. It was a bit differant back then, after the war and before the insurgencies.

Things like that happened. I had a firend who worked for MACV. He brought his wife over to Vietnam and gave her a tour of the country in a Huey.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

Mr. Stuart,

I do believe you would be most entertaining to listen to and hope you have put your memories on paper. I would like to read them one day.

Regards,
Brad Horton
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

In my limited experience, the words 'Vietnamese' and 'food' should never be used in the same sentence...
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

The one thing that I learned in SE Asia was to enjoy the hot peppers. Killed the taste of a lot of the local food, that to this day, I am not sure what I was eating.

I also would like to go back for a tour and visit many of the old haunts and bases.

I did go back to Kuwait in 2001 for the 10th anniversary of removing the Iraqis and the Kuwaiti Liberation. Met several old friends there and we were treated like royalty. Too bad we were not allowed to finish Iraq when we were there the first time.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

Kraig,

Frosted "Ba Moui Ba" Beer? Now that would be different. Never had any that was not at least piss warm. I'll have to hunt some down for old times....


Thanks for sharing,

Bob

Gulf of Thailand Yacht Club 1970-71
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...But then, I spot in the coolor some “33” beer. It’s been a long time and I had to try it.</div></div>


<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/75JTXXnZNbM"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/75JTXXnZNbM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

What a bunch of old geezers


And I better not look in any mirrors myself
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

You should be as lucky as us and live so long and experience so much life. LOL
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cleaner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What a bunch of old geezers


And I better not look in any mirrors myself </div></div>

The Lucky ones survive and get to live to a nice ripe age. This is the fate of many because Fate demands there be at least one to tell the stories.

Mirrors only get worse
grin.gif
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

It all works out in the end, the older I get, the worse my wife's eysesights is.

My grandkids love me, that's all that counts anymore.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

Man this place is like a retirement home or something. Just full of old farts.

"Fate demands there be at least one to tell the stories"


I had the pleasure of working with Ret General Lloyd and a cat named Pat Tadina. Both were first class individuals and had some pretty neat stories from Nam. Was an honor to be in the same area as these 2 hero's. Google Pat sometime you will be amazed.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

Was that Herbert J. Loyd? He was my Bde Commander in the 5th ID 2nd Bde "Cold Steel". Best leader I EVER met!! My wife thought the world of him he showed her how an officer takes care of his Soldiers. Best Soldiers I ever served with, as a young LT my NCOIC was E5 three times and E6 twice a 11C in Vietnam I learned alot from him and the many Vietnam vets still serving in "85" in the 5th ID.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

Switch, you are so correct in telling the stories, but remembering the ones who have passed is the reason we survive.

Poke, I enjoy being an old fart and damn proud of it. Plan on getting a hell of lot older, so I can harass younsters like you. LOL
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

I ain't luck, 'cause if I was lucky, how come I got me all these here scars? Only Frankenstein envies me...
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

Well Greg, had those holes been a little deeper or longer, you would not have had to worry about the scars. Luck it is.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

None of my scars are due to enemy action. They are surgical. Well over a dozen.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

Every American should read this.

<span style="font-weight: bold">“Heroes of the Vietnam Generation”, James Webb (Senator, D-VA), <span style="font-style: italic">The American Enterprise</span>, September 2000</span>

The rapidly disappearing cohort of Americans that endured the Great Depression and then fought World War II is receiving quite a send-off from the leading lights of the so-called 60s generation. Tom Brokaw has published two oral histories of “The Greatest Generation” that feature ordinary people doing their duty and suggest that such conduct was historically unique.

Chris Matthews of “Hardball” is fond of writing columns praising the Navy service of his father while castigating his own baby boomer generation for its alleged softness and lack of struggle. William Bennett gave a startlingly condescending speech at the Naval Academy a few years ago comparing the heroism of the “D-Day Generation” to the drugs-and-sex nihilism of the “Woodstock Generation.” And Steven Spielberg, in promoting his film Saving Private Ryan, was careful to justify his portrayals of soldiers in action based on the supposedly unique nature of World War II.

An irony is at work here. Lest we forget, the World War II generation now being lionized also brought us the Vietnam War, a conflict which today’s most conspicuous voices by and large opposed, and in which few of them served. The “best and brightest” of the Vietnam age group once made headlines by castigating their parents for bringing about the war in which they would not fight, which has become the war they refuse to remember.

Pundits back then invented a term for this animus: the “generation gap.” Long, plaintive articles and even books were written examining its manifestations. Campus leaders, who claimed precocious wisdom through the magical process of reading a few controversial books, urged fellow baby boomers not to trust anyone over 30. Their elders who had survived the Depression and fought the largest war in history were looked down upon as shallow, materialistic, and out of touch.

Those of us who grew up on the other side of the picket line from that era’s counter-culture can’t help but feel a little leery of this sudden gush of appreciation for our elders from the leading lights of the old counter-culture. Then and now, the national conversation has proceeded from the dubious assumption that those who came of age during Vietnam are a unified generation in the same sense as their parents were, and thus are capable of being spoken for through these fickle elites.

In truth, the “Vietnam generation” is a misnomer. Those who came of age during that war are permanently divided by different reactions to a whole range of counter-cultural agendas, and nothing divides them more deeply than the personal ramifications of the war itself. The sizable portion of the Vietnam age group who declined to support the counter-cultural agenda, and especially the men and women who opted to serve in the military during the Vietnam War, are quite different from their peers who for decades have claimed to speak for them. In fact, they are much like the World War II generation itself. For them, Woodstock was a side show, college protestors were spoiled brats who would have benefited from having to work a few jobs in order to pay their tuition, and Vietnam represented not an intellectual exercise in draft avoidance or protest marches but a battlefield that was just as brutal as those their fathers faced in World War II and Korea.

Few who served during Vietnam ever complained of a generation gap. The men who fought World War II were their heroes and role models. They honored their fathers’ service by emulating it, and largely agreed with their fathers’ wisdom in attempting to stop Communism’s reach in Southeast Asia. The most accurate poll of their attitudes (Harris, 1980) showed that 91% were glad they’d served their country, 74% enjoyed their time in the service, and 89% agreed with the statement that “our troops were asked to fight in a war which our political leaders in Washington would not let them win.” And most importantly, the castigation they received upon returning home was not from the World War II generation, but from the very elites in their age group who supposedly spoke for them.

Nine million men served in the military during the Vietnam war, three million of whom went to the Vietnam theater. Contrary to popular mythology, two-thirds of these were volunteers, and 73% of those who died were volunteers. While some attention has been paid recently to the plight of our prisoners of war, most of whom were pilots, there has been little recognition of how brutal the war was for those who fought it on the ground.

Dropped onto the enemy’s terrain 12,000 miles away from home, America’s citizen-soldiers performed with a tenacity and quality that may never be truly understood. Those who believe the war was fought incompetently on a tactical level should consider Hanoi’s recent admission that 1.4 million of its soldiers died on the battlefield, compared to 58,000 total U.S. dead. Those who believe that it was a “dirty little war” where the bombs did all the work might contemplate that it was the most costly war the U.S. Marine Corps has ever fought

<span style="font-weight: bold">- five times as many dead as World War I,
- three times as many dead as in Korea, and
- more total killed and wounded than in all of World War II.</span>

Significantly, these sacrifices were being made at a time the United States was deeply divided over our effort in Vietnam. The baby-boom generation had cracked apart along class lines as America’s young men were making difficult, life-or-death choices about serving. The better academic institutions became focal points for vitriolic protest against the war, with few of their graduates going into the military. Harvard College, which had lost 691 alumni in World War II, lost a total of 12 men in Vietnam from the classes of 1962 through 1972 combined. Those classes at Princeton lost six, at MIT two. The media turned ever-more hostile. And frequently the reward for a young man’s having gone through the trauma of combat was to be greeted by his peers with studied indifference or outright hostility.

What is a hero? My heroes are the young men who faced the issues of war and possible death, and then weighed those concerns against obligations to their country. Citizen-soldiers who interrupted their personal and professional lives at their most formative stage, in the timeless phrase of the Confederate Memorial in Arlington National Cemetery, “not for fame or reward, not for place or for rank, but in simple obedience to duty, as they understood it.” Who suffered loneliness, disease, and wounds with an often contagious elan. And who deserve a far better place in history than that now offered them by the so-called spokesmen of our so-called generation.

Mr. Brokaw, Mr. Matthews, Mr. Bennett, Mr. Spielberg, meet my Marines.

1969 was an odd year to be in Vietnam. Second only to 1968 in terms of American casualties, it was the year made famous by Hamburger Hill, as well as the gut-wrenching Life cover story showing the pictures of 242 Americans who had been killed in one average week of fighting. Back home, it was the year of Woodstock, and of numerous anti-war rallies that culminated in the Moratorium march on Washington. The My Lai massacre hit the papers and was seized upon by the anti-war movement as the emblematic moment of the war. Lyndon Johnson left Washington in utter humiliation. Richard Nixon entered the scene, destined for an even worse fate.

In the An Hoa Basin southwest of Danang, the Fifth Marine Regiment was in its third year of continuous combat operations. Combat is an unpredictable and inexact environment, but we were well-led. As a rifle platoon and company commander, I served under a succession of three regimental commanders who had cut their teeth in World War II, and four different battalion commanders, three of whom had seen combat in Korea. The company commanders were typically captains on their second combat tour in Vietnam, or young first lieutenants like myself who were given companies after many months of “bush time” as platoon commanders in the Basin’s tough and unforgiving environs.

The Basin was one of the most heavily contested areas in Vietnam, its torn, cratered earth offering every sort of wartime possibility. In the mountains just to the west, not far from the Ho Chi Minh Trail, the North Vietnamese Army operated an infantry division from an area called Base Area 112. In the valleys of the Basin, main-force Viet Cong battalions whose ranks were 80% North Vietnamese Army regulars moved against the Americans every day. Local Viet Cong units sniped and harassed. Ridge lines and paddy dikes were laced with sophisticated booby traps of every size, from a hand grenade to a 250-pound bomb. The villages sat in the rice paddies and tree lines like individual fortresses, crisscrossed with trenches and spider holes, their homes sporting bunkers capable of surviving direct hits from large-caliber artillery shells. The Viet Cong infrastructure was intricate and permeating. Except for the old and the very young, villagers who did not side with the Communists had either been killed or driven out to the government-controlled enclaves near Danang.

In the rifle companies we spent the endless months patrolling ridge lines and villages and mountains, far away from any notion of tents, barbed wire, hot food, or electricity. Luxuries were limited to what would fit inside one’s pack, which after a few “humps” usually boiled down to letter-writing material, towel, soap, toothbrush, poncho liner, and a small transistor radio.

We moved through the boiling heat with 60 pounds of weapons and gear, causing a typical Marine to drop 20% of his body weight while in the bush. When we stopped we dug chest-deep fighting holes and slit trenches for toilets. We slept on the ground under makeshift poncho hootches, and when it rained we usually took our hootches down because wet ponchos shined under illumination flares, making great targets. Sleep itself was fitful, never more than an hour or two at a stretch for months at a time as we mixed daytime patrolling with night-time ambushes, listening posts, foxhole duty, and radio watches. Ringworm, hookworm, malaria, and dysentery were common, as was trench foot when the monsoons came. Respite was rotating back to the mud-filled regimental combat base at An Hoa for four or five days, where rocket and mortar attacks were frequent and our troops manned defensive bunkers at night.

Which makes it kind of hard to get excited about tales of Woodstock, or camping at the Vineyard during summer break.

We had been told while in training that Marine officers in the rifle companies had an 85% probability of being killed or wounded, and the experience of “Dying Delta” as our company was known, bore that out. Of the officers in the bush when I arrived, our company commander was wounded, the weapons platoon commander was wounded, the first platoon commander was killed, the second platoon commander was wounded twice, and I, commanding the third platoon, was wounded twice. The enlisted troops in the rifle platoons fared no better. Two of my original three squad leaders were killed, the third shot in the stomach. My platoon sergeant was severely wounded, as was my right guide. By the time I left my platoon I had gone through six radio operators, five of them casualties.

These figures were hardly unique; in fact, they were typical. Many other units — for instance, those who fought the hill battles around Khe Sanh, or were with the famed Walking Dead of the Ninth Marine Regiment, or were in the battle for Hue City or at Dai Do — had it far worse.

When I remember those days and the very young men who spent them with me, I am continually amazed, for these were mostly recent civilians barely out of high school, called up from the cities and the farms to do their year in Hell and then return. Visions haunt me every day, not of the nightmares of war but of the steady consistency with which my Marines faced their responsibilities, and of how uncomplaining most of them were in the face of constant danger. The salty, battle-hardened 20-year-olds teaching green 19-year-olds the intricate lessons of that hostile battlefield. The unerring skill of the young squad leaders as we moved through unfamiliar villages and weed-choked trails in the black of night. The quick certainty with which they moved when coming under enemy fire. Their sudden tenderness when a fellow Marine was wounded and needed help. Their willingness to risk their lives to save other Marines in peril. To this day it stuns me that their own countrymen have so completely missed the story of their service, lost in the bitter confusion of the war itself.

Like every military unit throughout history we had occasional laggards, cowards, and complainers. But in the aggregate these Marines were the finest people I have ever been around. It has been my privilege to keep up with many of them over the years since we all came home. One finds in them very little bitterness about the war in which they fought. The most common regret, almost to a man, is that they were not able to do more — for each other and for the people they came to help.

It would be redundant to say that I would trust my life to these men. Because I already have, in more ways than I can ever recount. I am alive today because of their quiet, unaffected heroism. Such valor epitomizes the conduct of Americans at war from the first days of our existence. That the boomer elites can canonize this sort of conduct in our fathers’ generation while ignoring it in our own is more than simple oversight. It is a conscious, continuing travesty.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

Oddly enough, just as I clicked on this link, Charlie Daniels' "Still in Saigon" started playing on Pandora.

Thanks to all the vets from many wars who have served.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

I grew up looking for my uncle on TV while he was in Da Nang. If they were talking about the war on TV and they said Da Nang, I stopped and stared, waiting. Those Marines and SOldiers were the heroes I grew up idolizing. Marines in Dress Blues. 'Uncle Davey' my Pop's best friend served in Tustin and Viet Nam. He was a door gunner. Uncle Johnny was a Soldier with TRIM in Da Nang. When we went to Fort Ord to see him the Soldiers at the gate in uniform with black boots and white laces looked so cool to this 5 year old kid.
As I grew older it was talking to Grampa's that I learned what was WWII and they too became my heores, but none were ever as cool as those who served in Viet Nam. Those guys fought in the jungle, had cool music and an enemy that hid better than anyone else. They were going after commies. When I went into the Marines, we were trained to fight commies. Jungles's, Commies, and being a Marine, cool.
I still listen to the tunes that Johnny heard back then and wonder what life would be like if he was still here. Davey drives truck across country and found Jesus, but he's still a Marine when I see him and we always see a Brother when we meet occasionally at Pop's house.
The coolest ever? Viet Nam Marines. Just sayin...
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pimpgun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Forty-One! </div></div>

+1
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

I have this love for Vietnam Veterans - and hats off for going to that restaurant.

<span style="color: #3333FF"> <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">To live in the past robs the present and poisons the future.

But to ignore the past poisons the present and robs the future.
</span>
--A wise man somewhere in my past.</span>

</span>

Sounds good to me.
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

I like Billy Joel's <span style="font-style: italic">Goodnight Saigon</span>..

To my mind it epitomizes the intense cameradery, and never fails to raise my hackles. I cannot get through it with dry eyes. Every part of it tells <span style="font-style: italic">my</span> story.

All but one of my scars comes from surgery related one way or another to Agent Orange (Mixed Cell Lymphoma, then five years later Lymphoma again, only it was Hodgkins for bout two, ten years after that Ischemic Heart Disease...).

Greg
 
Re: FLASHBACKS

This thread started out with reference to Vietnamese food. Probably the only time I've heard "Vietnamese food" that wasn't immediately followed by the words " Nouc-mam". To the uninitiated, this is the national spice used on everything. Properly made from finely chopped fish,bottled and left to "ripen" in the sun for a month or so. UMMMunnnggghhhhaah. One of the many reasons I wouldn't go back if you gave me the place. The other reasons carry a bit more weight.
Greg, agent orange is one of several things I haven't yet come to terms with. Seems like one of those gifts that just keeps on giving. Soldier on brother.