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Thanks - can you send me a link to clamp you’re using? I’m getting a bit lost on the pages of this thread and various mounting alternatives shown - apologize in advance if you already posted. Owe you a beer.
SC-ARC Bipod Clamp
Experience RRS's Bipod Clamps. Engineered for reliability and quick adjustments, they offer a secure and stable connection for your outdoor equipment.
rrssoar.com Mile High has it in stock.
Ron would definitely have a leather-bound mount for the Xero.
Yes, in fact there are.
Applied Ballistics has a set of functions that leverage Custom Drag Models and even Personal Drag Models that take this type of data into account.
Strelok has Multi-BC and advanced Drag Functions that can be applied/are available for certain rounds.
Reading the materials from the applied ballistics folks on CDMs and PDMs and how the ballistics radar systems used in military artillery applications is enlightening.
Certainly using some of the CDMs in AB or Multi-BC in Strelok all of a sudden 22lr rifle rounds out past 300yds and you can actually get much more on target. Then getting into PDMs you can get even closer, or using your own data - feeding that into Multi-BC. Turns out, each barrel will effect the BC and the the drag changes at different speeds, etc, etc, etc. going so far as each muzzle device can demonstrably effect the harmonics of the projectile on and on and on.
Anyway, some of it is hard to impossible to apply IRL even though we may know it's there, but the Advanced Drag Models, Multi-BC, CDM, and PDMs have really made demonstrable changes to my own ability to drop rounds on target at 300+++ yards with 22lr.
Obviously with CF cartridges the effects of these variances are going to be negligible at the same ranges, but they are there and become more meaningful the further out you go. Our ability to calculate a ballistic solution is largely limited to MV and a static BC, which isn't anywhere near the full picture... getting more data from advanced radar is really interesting stuff, but the systems required for this aren't really available to us.
How are we planning to use this? It doesn’t fit the A419 arm, but the RRS knob style BTC clamp does. I’m a little stuck between the only two offerings right now from Gray Ops and A419. Analysis paralysis.SC-ARC Bipod Clamp
Experience RRS's Bipod Clamps. Engineered for reliability and quick adjustments, they offer a secure and stable connection for your outdoor equipment.
Mile High has it in stock.
Just use a nodal slide. Use whatever adapter you want on that.
For me, I am not seeing the benefit of the boutique offerings here.
Who makes that Arca clamp under the Garmin?
Thanks for the link. Gonna do the same. Is it noticeably heavier?
It seems to me that a velocity/distance table like the velocity/temp table would make it easy, perhaps that function will be incorporated into the common solvers in the future.
It doesn’t fit in a way that leaves it functional. See several pages back.
Cole-Tac just dropped a case
www.cole-tac.com
Chrono Pouch for the Garmin Xero® | Cole-TAC Outdoor Gear
Introducing the Cole-TAC Xero Pouch - Your Ultimate Companion for Precision Shooting! When Garmin released the Xero Chronograph, we were excited to get our hands on one, but we instantly noticed a case was not included. Look no further than the Cole-TAC Xero Pouch, the perfect accessory to...
www.cole-tac.com 
Looks nice, but I wish it had a molle option.Cole-Tac just dropped a case
Chrono Pouch for the Garmin Xero® | Cole-TAC Outdoor Gear
Introducing the Cole-TAC Xero Pouch - Your Ultimate Companion for Precision Shooting! When Garmin released the Xero Chronograph, we were excited to get our hands on one, but we instantly noticed a case was not included. Look no further than the Cole-TAC Xero Pouch, the perfect accessory to...
Was waiting on them to make one. Ordered.
So I wonder if for future updates they could make it so that you could organize by rifle and ammo. Say for example you set up a rifle profile and then an ammo profile, you could link your range sessions to a specific combo to keep track of them throughout the temperature range and barrel life.
SC-ARC Bipod Clamp
Experience RRS's Bipod Clamps. Engineered for reliability and quick adjustments, they offer a secure and stable connection for your outdoor equipment.
Mile High has it in stock.
The SC-ARC mount (or any RRS lever for that matter) DOES NOT work natively with the 419 mount unless you only use it in the diving board config. The moving clamp portion runs into the tapered wall. The BTC pro does work and so will any other ARMS 17 mount that clamps from the same side as the lever (Gray Ops, Area 419, cheap modified sunwayfoto, etc.)
You can build a push button Arca setup with Amazon parts for way less if that’s why you want it.Ordered the whole kit. I like the way it has so many mounting options. Also, the fact it is QD push-button for the pic rail attachment is really genius. Plus, they said the limited-run first batch were going to be all black, and future models will be red, and I don’t like red anodizing on my guns. All black will look better.
I figure 10-15 day lead time isn’t bad for a pre-order.
Also, just to note, they do take Apple Pay and SHOPpay (Shopify app). Apple Pay is fully encrypted like PayPal, so it adds a little extra layer of protection there. That’s what I used. Got my confirmation email, too. And it popped up automatically in my SHOP app (I use it to track all my packages from different carriers in one place).
Same goes for the Area 419 setup.
Can you point me towards the plate and mount being used on the tripod?
Garmin Xero C1 Pro chronograph
Can you make one bound in leather that smells of mahogany?
www.snipershide.com rapidly approaching PRS peak-attachment era lol
d'oh!Garmin Xero C1 Pro chronograph
Can you make one bound in leather that smells of mahogany?
Thanks
I got so tired of my Labradar missing shots. To its credit my range has a bunch if posts in the way. I got really lucky to get what I did for Lab and picked up a decent deal on a Magnetospeed. But not the deals I’m seeing now! On the other hand, I just got a wiser mount for a steal, so all is well. Might pick up a Garmin several months out but in no hurry at this point. Might get 2 or three magnetos instead
Never been in the Army have we? The sound we hear when downrange when being shot at is the “Crack and Boom.” The crack is quite loud as the bullet passes over, very distinct and abrupt. The boom is somewhat less distinct and occurs somewhat after the crack. The time difference in seconds is the distance in feet from the prospective shootee to the shooter divided by roughly 1100.
The sonic boom (actually a loud snap) of the bullet as it passes over should be enough to enable the sound activated chrono. That is as long as the bullet is faster than the speed of sound, needed to generate the necessary sonic boom.
Final thought. If the potential shootee actually becomes the shootee, he never hears the crack.
Got the case from Amazon that looks like the SAC die box and it fits perfect
Top end kestrels are loaded with custom curves created that way. My 22LR elevation data is bang on to 400 using these curves.
Mine worked great today, even when shooting through a large concrete culvert. Speeds were ~10fps slower than MS (0.5%)
With the accuracy/error of both systems, as well as the magneto being right at the muzzle (and how they both differ from one another how they record velocity), I'd expect the Xero to be in that ballpark area of slower.
Can you post a link for that case?
Evergreen 56 Waterproof Dry Box Protective Case with Pick & Pluck Foam - Travel Safe/Mil Spec/USA Made - for Cameras, Phones, Camping, Fishing, Hiking, Water Sports, Knives, Survival (Orange) https://a.co/d/8gmEuBD
…and store organized data in a cloud repository accessible by different app instances on multiple devices for postprocessing / analysis. Shoot at range pick data from the xero via the phone push in the cloud and then access them via laptop / ipad at home. Life could be easy
New Cole Tac case looks sweet. Especially if you’re running a mount.
www.cole-tac.com
Chrono Pouch for the Garmin Xero® | Cole-TAC Outdoor Gear
Introducing the Cole-TAC Xero Pouch - Your Ultimate Companion for Precision Shooting! When Garmin released the Xero Chronograph, we were excited to get our hands on one, but we instantly noticed a case was not included. Look no further than the Cole-TAC Xero Pouch, the perfect accessory to...
www.cole-tac.com Attachments
I am using an old Area 419 plate I had for an Atlas bipod. This will also allow me to put the Garmin slightly closer to the muzzle once my RRS clamp arrives. If I don't want to use it mounted on the rifle I can get some use out of my Labradar quad pod.
ARCALOCK Spigot Extension
Spigot extension for our ARCA clamp and any ARMS17-S accessory. For Harris: Allows use of our barricade stop with your Harris bipod Requires Harris Bipod Adapter Extends bipod out extra 1.25″ for better stability For Atlas: Adapts Atlas 5H to our ARCA clamp with no other parts necessary...
www.area419.com Last edited:
The cloud connection should be a no brainer - even my garmin scale puts the data from my fat ass standing on it up in the cloud.
I'd imagine this is coming along with a lot of the more obvious software based needs raised.
- Live Remote Display / Control of the Xero from the Phone.
- Ability to organize sessions by platform / cartridge.
- Any previous session, can be paused or resumed at any time by the operator. Even if it was stopped or the unit was powered off during the session, etc.
- Cloud upload of data.
- Ingestion / sharing of data with ballistics calculators, environmental meters.
That last one is probably going to be garmin doing this with their own eco system. It would of course be dream for a common API all the players worked with, but ya.
For prone ELR it may not be worth it. For a PRS shooter practicing multiple positions it’s absolutely worth it. The only times I’m stationary for multiple strings of fire are load development and chrono. Now I can chrono during practice.
seconded.
a saas quickload thing on top of the chrono session data and the ammunition development process could be comptely digitally supported (leaving the chance to everyone to blow their face ‘analogically’
Looks like Botach for the win (Botach had to do something right sooner or later!). Wasn't supposed to be delivered till December, but it appears it's on it's way and for under $550 delivered. Also looks like they increased their price to be at full MSRP like everyone else now. Haven't run a Chrono since I sold my LR just because all the options are such a hassle so very excited to run one that seems so easy to use.
My guess is Garmin's updates will come limited to a new model/generation. At least in cycling/handheld GPS units Garmin almost never adds features once it's released, only bug fixes. Also if Garmin's other line ups are any indication it could easily be 2-3 years before that happens looking at their archery/trap/golf/handheld products etc. Usually if Garmin is going to have 2-3 tiers of products like they do for handhelds/cycling they are released at the same time, not staggered. That said of course only a few in Garmin (probably not even all the employees) know what's really in store. Projects are delayed, cancelled, started all the time where the developers etc. don't even know.
With the success they are likely to have with this, hopefully version 2 will have a lot more integration/features etc.
My guess is Garmin's updates will come limited to a new model/generation. At least in cycling/handheld GPS units Garmin almost never adds features once it's released, only bug fixes. Also if Garmin's other line ups are any indication it could easily be 2-3 years before that happens looking at their archery/trap/golf/handheld products etc. Usually if Garmin is going to have 2-3 tiers of products like they do for handhelds/cycling they are released at the same time, not staggered. That said of course only a few in Garmin (probably not even all the employees) know what's really in store. Projects are delayed, cancelled, started all the time where the developers etc. don't even know.
With the success they are likely to have with this, hopefully version 2 will have a lot more integration/features etc.
I’m using a nodal slide as a secondary mount. I needed something that would keep the Xero from wanting to rotate. Went on Amazon and came up with this. The grip strips work in two ways. It gives something for the Xero to squeeze against when tightening the screw (tension) and keeps the unit wanting to easily rotate. I initially used strips of loop Velcro but I think this works better. It’s not sticky/tacky but it’s super grippy. The strips also come in black. PS- I have no affiliation to this company. I was just looking for easy solutions.
Got shipping notification 24hr after ordering from bass pro. Looks like the label was created at 7pm but was in fedex’s hands at 6:30pm the same day which is strange. But it’ll be here Monday 
11.5cm???
Perfect! So my Judo chop will easily register.
Mine too.ordered on Thurs or Fri I forget , but coming mon , could have picked up at local BP but hate austin metro traffic. Tried to use .y points but couldn't remember my password so just paid full price. Got some 244 valkyrie loads to test , so waiting like a kid on Christmas eve.
Got shipping notification 24hr after ordering from bass pro. Looks like the label was created at 7pm but was in fedex’s hands at 6:30pm the same day which is strange. But it’ll be here Monday
Wow, that's pretty quick to have that going. This is the type of case I'd like to have. I don't want more hard cases. Trying to figure out when to pull the trigger. Probably will be more nice stuff coming all along for this xeroNew Cole Tac case looks sweet. Especially if you’re running a mount.
Chrono Pouch for the Garmin Xero® | Cole-TAC Outdoor Gear
Introducing the Cole-TAC Xero Pouch - Your Ultimate Companion for Precision Shooting! When Garmin released the Xero Chronograph, we were excited to get our hands on one, but we instantly noticed a case was not included. Look no further than the Cole-TAC Xero Pouch, the perfect accessory to...
Ok, I got a chance to crunch the numbers. Garmin vs. Labradar/Recoil Trigger (shooting suppressed).
6.5CM shooting factory Hornady 140 ELD Match ammo.
Session 1: Ten shots total, but first 5 were with Garmin @ 28 in. behind muzzle, and last 5 were with it 11 in. behind muzzle.
The Delta AVG for the first 5 was 11.78 (Min 0.9, Max 21.6)
The Delta AVG for the last 5 was 3.42, (Min. 1.0, Max 4.5)
Session summary from both units (all 10 shots included):
Labradar - Avg MV - 2803, ES - 76, SD - 24.4
Garmin - AVg MV - 2806, ES - 51, SD - 16.9
Then I shot another Session of 5 shots with Garmin @ 11 in. behind muzzle:
Delta AVG was 6.96 (Min 2.4, Max 21.0 - the Max Delta shot was recorded as slow by the LR, but close to the others by the Garmin)
The Deltas on this string were 3.3, 2.4, 3.9, 21.0, and 4.2. I suspect the LR is might have been in error on the one shot, likely due to the recoil trigger.
Session summary:
Labradar - Avg MV - 2802, ES - 45, SD - 17.6
Garmin - Avg MV - 2803.3, ES - 44.4, SD - 16.3
A final 5-shot string shooting prone from my truck bed instead of bench. I can't get the Garmin quite as far forward as on the bench. I forgot to measure the exact distance, but it was between 11-15 in behind the muzzle (within the Garmin's recommended window).
Delta AVG was 8.9 (Min 3.7, Max 19.6 - again the LR was the one showing slower on the Max Delta shot).
Session summary:
Labradar - Avg MV - 2805, ES - 49, SD - 18.9
Garmin - Avg MV - 2813, ES - 39.9, SD - 13.7
In each session, the Garmin showed very similar MV, but smaller ES and SD than the Labradar. I have spoken with the Labradar people before, and the reason they don't offer a recoil trigger of their own is that in their testing it introduced some error resulting in larger ES/SD than a sister unit running in tandem. I don't know if this is at play here. Someone needs to run the Garmin vs. Labradar without the trigger (unsuppressed).
Who's up for it?
