Getting zero by ballistic software

Yustax

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 30, 2011
182
2
34
Houston-Texas
Hello, Im a noobie when it comes for this. The reason I dont want to do it the old way is because I only have 40 rounds left, ammo is getting more expensive and harder to find. I would like if I was helped to find my zero of my rifle.

The data:

Rifle: Remington 700 long action, 308
Barrel: Made of 416R Stainless Steel. The bore twist is 1-turn-in-11.25 inches
Scope: Leupold MK4, M1 turret, 10x40mm, mounted on Leupold mid steel rings
Ammo: 7.62x51mm Federal Match Sierra Matchking 175 grain

DSCN0080_zps5e9e87a8.jpg


Atmospheric data

Houston.

Temperature: 90°
Humidity: %69
Wind: 5mph
Height: 36ft

Zero: 100 yards.

If someone could please help me with this, I would really appreciate it.
 
Did you consider, bagging the rifle in, pulling the bolt out, pointing the barrel towards the target, looking down the barrel, then aligning the scope to match ?

That should get you on paper and pretty darn close to "zero"... You can also use something like this:

Boresighter_on_TactRfl_web-491x530.jpg


Zero Point Magnetic Illuminated Boresighter - Leupold | Leupold
 
Did you consider, bagging the rifle in, pulling the bolt out, pointing the barrel towards the target, looking down the barrel, then aligning the scope to match ?

That should get you on paper and pretty darn close to "zero"... You can also use something like this:

Boresighter_on_TactRfl_web-491x530.jpg


Zero Point Magnetic Illuminated Boresighter - Leupold | Leupold

I'll try that next time, thanks man. However, I want something more precise, and I think that a ballistic software could help me.
 
How does the software know your scope is aligned right / correctly ? Action 100% trued, base bedded ?

A thousand of an inch at the scope can be an inch downrange...

The software can dial your elevation, but it can't tell you what you don't know, or what you don't tell it. Shooting style, windage offsets, etc. Did you center your scope, do you know where it is elevation wise ? Remember to add in the base, then all the other stuff, precise Muzzle Velocity, etc.

JBM - Calculations

JBM is free software it will tell you a lot, try it and let us know how precise it was establishing your zero. Without shooting it ...

Boresighting a rifle is still the best method.
 
Agreed. Just sight it properly. What you have spent on the rifle and optic is worth doing it right, even if it might cost you more ammo.


BUT... I bet it costs you less ammo. Lets say you spend 10 shots chasing around that ballistic software, never hitting paper. You are now 10 shots down and haven't even started to sight in the optic.
 
How does the software know your scope is aligned right / correctly ? Action 100% trued, base bedded ?

A thousand of an inch at the scope can be an inch downrange...

The software can dial your elevation, but it can't tell you what you don't know, or what you don't tell it. Shooting style, windage offsets, etc. Did you center your scope, do you know where it is elevation wise ? Remember to add in the base, then all the other stuff, precise Muzzle Velocity, etc.

JBM - Calculations

JBM is free software it will tell you a lot, try it and let us know how precise it was establishing your zero. Without shooting it ...

Boresighting a rifle is still the best method.

Thanks. I'll try this and the range method. But my rifle is action trued and the M24 SWS stock from HS precision is especially made for the action, so bedding is not required.
 
Okay, it's not zeroed after 60 rounds? What distance are you zeroing the rifle at?

It's in the first post. Im trying to zero it at 100 yards, my adjustments are 1/4= 1 click

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
100 4.1 3.9 0.3 0.3 2600.0 2.262 2626.3 0.112 0.0 0.0
200 4.5 2.1 1.3 0.6 2433.0 2.117 2299.8 0.231 0.0 0.0
300 -1.0 -0.3 3.0 1.0 2272.2 1.977 2005.8 0.359 0.0 0.0
400 -13.2 -3.2 5.5 1.3 2117.3 1.842 1741.7 0.495 0.0 0.0
500 -33.2 -6.3 8.9 1.7 1968.9 1.713 1506.1 0.642 0.0 0.0
600 -62.1 -9.9 13.3 2.1 1827.3 1.590 1297.2 0.801 0.0 0.0
700 -101.5 -13.9 18.8 2.6 1693.2 1.473 1113.9 0.971 0.0 0.0
800 -153.1 -18.3 25.5 3.0 1567.8 1.364 954.9 1.155 0.0 0.0
900 -218.8 -23.2 33.5 3.6 1452.0 1.263 819.1 1.354 0.0 0.0
1000 -301.0 -28.7 42.9 4.1 1347.4 1.172 705.3 1.569 0.0 0.0



Got these results in JBM calculations. Im gonna try this.
 
So it is zeroed at 100 and you want to confirm the holdover/comeups for ranges past 100 yards?

It's not zeroed at all. That's what Im trying to find, I couldnt even get a round on paper at 100 yards after 60 rounds. And sorry for being such a noob, but if I have to adjust 3.9MOA to get the adjustment for 100 yards, how many clicks of my scope I would have to get to have the correct adjustment?

I ask, because the Leupold scope is confusing me. Should I start to count the clicks as soon as I hear them? Or start from the number 14?

 
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60 !

Dude, just stop, you are all jacked up.

Find someone to help you in person, any more than 6 rounds and you're doing it wrong. 60 is unheard of !

Youre revolutions off, bag the rifle in. Look through the barrel at the target then dial the scope to match.

You dont know the first thing about the scope, the software or what precision is. Start over with someone to show you. You're lost and explaining it won't help here.
 
I did this many years ago when I installed the scope 90* off where I thought the elevation was the windage and the windage was the elevation. Went through a box and a half before we realized the mistake.

So, check that and then scoot up to 25 yds and zero your windage. Then your 100yd zero will be *about* 1.5" high. This will be about 24 clicks difference if you actually are hitting bullseye.
 
60 !

Dude, just stop, you are all jacked up.

Find someone to help you in person, any more than 6 rounds and you're doing it wrong. 60 is unheard of !

Youre revolutions off, bag the rifle in. Look through the barrel at the target then dial the scope to match.

You dont know the first thing about the scope, the software or what precision is. Start over with someone to show you. You're lost and explaining it won't help here.

Yeah pretty much Im a noob. I saved for it because it's the only rifle I want to own in my life maybe, my favorite one in all times and Im new to the world of precision. I'll look someone to help me in range...or maybe save up and take long range shooting classes, would be ideal.
 
14 is the wrong way, you start at 0 and turn towards the 1 but you have to be zeroed first.

You need someone to help you as you don't quite get the concept. 14 is what you get when you move 360 degrees around the dial. It starts at 0 and until you zero you don't have a starting point.
 
OP,

It appears to me that you have assumed the scope was already zeroed and therefore a simple adjustment of scope to match ballistics table would get you hits where desired at target distance. Do this: read the Operator's Manual for the scope.
 
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I'm with Frank on this one, this is a total waste of time and ammo. Find someone to help you. Looking over the member list I find several people from the Huston area. I bet if you ask, one will be more then willing to help you.

maybe save up and take long range shooting classes, would be ideal

Not now it wouldn't. You have to learn to crawl before you learn to walk. Long Range Shooting Courses are good, but good ones are expensive, You don't want waste the course time learning to zero your rifle. You'll have much more to worry about.

I suggest, finding something like an Appleseed or CMP GSM Clinic first. You'll get the basics for a lot less money. I think if you get the basics down before hand, you'll get a lot more out of the Long Range Course.

Another option, but I don't know if its still available is a National Guard Mentor Program. We had one in the Alaska National Guard but I retired in '92 so things may have change. In the Mentor Program I'd assign one of my rifle team members with a civilian to help them get started in shooting sports. It was a good recruitment tool. Might want to check with the TX NG Marksmanship Unit. They use to have an excellent program but like I said, I've been away from the Guard a long time.
 
OP, here is what you need to do, and I know for a fact it works because I was on paper first shot, and zeroed at 200 in under 10. First try reading this selection, it properly explains how to bore sight your rifle by eye sight (Eyeball Boresighting | Shooting Illustrated). If you don't want to do it that way you have another option. Either find some one who will let you use one or go out and buy one of these, I personally use the Bushnell one here, Bushnell Banner Boresighter with Case And Set Of Three Expandable Arbors 743333 FREE S&H 74-3333. Bushnell Bore Sights.. You can also use Weaver Magnetic Boresighter 849745. Weaver Bore Sights., but I don't know how well it works due to not ever personally using one. Hope this helps you out in your quest. All in all, it would be best for you to read the link about eyeball boresighting and for you to find someone who is willing to help you in person. Read to get a concept, watch to learn, then do to embed it in your mind. Patience and humbleness along with a willing attitude to learn will get you a long way.
 
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This is either a magnificent Trolling or there is something fundamentally wrong with what you are doing or you might have an equipment issue.

First, make sure the action, the ring nuts holding the scope to the base and the portion of the rings holding the scope are all tightened and nothing is moving. If everything is tightened/torqued correctly, my next question is how many rounds have been fired through that barrel? That is not a nooby gun set up you have there so whom ever you bought it from, you need to ask them how many rounds have been fired out of that barrel.If you are confident that its not an equipment issue then watch the video as it is what others here have been telling you to do. If you know how to zero iron sights on a weapon you should grasp this concept as it is the same.

 
Agree with what is said here. You dont understand even the basic fundamentals and are wasting your time and everyone else's time on here. Not to mention your a liability and a danger to anyone within a mile of you. Youre in Houston and Im sure there are 100 people in close proximity that would be more than willing to help you out and teach you a few things. I would say stop right now before you hurt someone. If you cant even get on paper at 100 yards because you dont understand anything of what you are trying to accomplish, you are probably sending rounds off in the middle of nowhere. Please stop now before one of your stray bullets lands someplace bad! Pleading ignorance will not get you anywhere when you are in front of a judge.
 
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Now, you're exaggerating. A danger to anyone? Im shooting in a shooting range, against a solid mountain of rubble and dust. Of course Im going to seek help to get better at shooting, but I assure you Im not a danger to anyone, except to my wallet when I get more rounds which will happen when I get better at shooting.
 
Buddy, 60-rounds and you are way lost. Nobody is taking the piss out of you but please get someone from your range/club to help you. Chances are some of your shots could be going way high but beyond that you seem keen to learn and have a lot to gain by getting someone local to help.

Surely someone here can help this guy out ??
 
Now, you're exaggerating. A danger to anyone? Im shooting in a shooting range, against a solid mountain of rubble and dust. Of course Im going to seek help to get better at shooting, but I assure you Im not a danger to anyone, except to my wallet when I get more rounds which will happen when I get better at shooting.



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

So even with shooting 60 rounds into a backstop that would clearly allow you to see impacts, you still can't get on paper at 100 yards?!!x Yes i would say you are a potential danger because A. You don't know where your shots are going! and B. You don't know how to or can't control where your shots are going. Both are dangerous situations!
 
I just look through the bore at a 50yd target and adjust the reticle to match, this will get me on paper. I then shoot 3-rounds for group at 100yds and then dial in the adjustments. I then fire 3 more rounds to confirm my adjustment and I'm done. No chart is going to help me with zeroing...unless of course I'm shooting the chart :)
 
if you can take a sheet of plywood 4'x8' and set it up at 100. i have property and thats how i sighted my jp .308. i was hitting
15" high and 3" to the right. i was on target on the second shot. i have pst 4x16 on an LT158 10moa mount.
 
Gotta start somewhere. You've got a lot to learn, man.

Before you get caught up with ballistic calculators and math, I would find a shooting buddy in the area that knows a bit about how rifles and optics work and get the basics down. Study and ask questions from there.

It's frustrating on boards like this to help new guys because a guy has to try to display his thoughts through typed words. It's like trying to learn a subject completely out of a book with no pictures. Some people can do it, some people can't. It's a lot easier and a lot less frustrating to have someone physically there with you explaining how shit works and immediately answering questions.

Good luck getting it all sorted out.
 
Fixed! I went to a nice event with the guys of Templar Tactical.

They were explaining some of their very cool suppressors and gave us a nice show! They shot a lot of rifles...and its the first time I ever heard a suppressor; you don't even need ear protection.

I thank TexasGunTrustLawyer, who invited me for the event.

The guys of Templar Tactical fixed my rifle. The problem was that the screws didnt had enough torgue, the scope wasnt properly centered. They got me good in center, adjusted it for me and I gave me a few tips for shooting that I will carry for the rest of my life!

Results! 100 yards with 7.62x51mm 175gr Federal Match Premium, kinda like M118 LR.



I need a trigger job though. Since Im using a factory trigger, the pull is like 8lbs. I gotta get it to 3lbs.
 
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To add more in depth about the event.

It was in The Impact Zone Range (Home Page)

The air was humid with a dry and arid atmosphere. The wind didn't blew, but that made me just push the glasses back on my face and whip my brow full of sweat. Donning my cap of desert marpat of the USMC. I made my way to a small group of people who gathered outside my car's dusty window.

I'm not from this country, but I am used to this kind of weather...Venezuela is very hot, and the summers can be just as hot, if not, hotter.

People littered the stands and shot like no other range I have ever been, with rifles that looked more expensive than my car.

I met with TexasGunTrustLawyer and his pals from Templar Tactical. They were all wearing black shirts and shooting pants. The user was just as I imagine him to be. Senior shooter, with lots of years of experience and armed to the teeth, just as the rest of his cronies. I was expecting them to be more hardass; but I was received by a good handshake and a smile. The guys were actually a nice bunch.

After taking a look at my rifle, they fixed the torque of the screws, aligned my scope to the center, and bore sighted me.

They explained that there was a competition going on and the range wouldn't be available but up to two hours.

"Follow us" They said, so I did.

Not far from the range, there was a nice looking place, like one of those you see in the movies to eat at a nice restaurant while the competition that was happening within the range ended. I ate chicken breast, bread and spinach.

After, we went back and they prepared the grounds for the testing and explaining of their suppressors.

The team was actually composed of many engineers with mentions in metals, among other specialization. The cutaway suppressor blew me away. Basically the explanation for his great idea, was to imagine if he could have the power of a tornado...inside of a suppressor. Now folks, I was not skeptical of his explanation, since well, I cannot really understand much of the more precise terms that he used. But here's the words from the website of Templar Tactical

"When other suppressor technology achieves suppression by utilizing turbulence; TTF suppressors approached suppressor design in a whole new way by promoting flow and inducing very intense alternating tornado/whirlpool actions. These conditions create very powerful forces that actually attract and contain gas molecules in each suppressor baffle significantly longer than any other suppressor on the market"

I come from a world where guns are rare and seeing and 'hearing' such technology without any ear protection blew my mind away.

They used many rifles, among them a very nice custom Remy with a 300 winmag, you can see one of their members using it to hunt a hog at 376 yards away. Very nice fella, we talked a lot in the restaurant.

943175_596100613735397_1109178602_n.jpg


The magnum round was barely a whisper among the dusty and arid environment where we were. Among the public was an old shooter, who claimed that he wanted to hunt without alerting his kids, the owner of the business, Mr Curtis; talked about his product and how was he able to get behind his idea into full production.

They had suppressors of different sizes and different rifles. Most of them were custom Remi 700's, but nevertheless, they looked appealing to my eye. I wish I took more pictures, but sadly I was too busy drooling at the amount of firepower on the tables, among the rifles, was a Barrett 98 Bravo in 338 lapua, also fitted with one of their suppressors.





Among the rest, were custom Ar15's platforms, accurized and turned into match rifles. Ar10's and even...22LR like a Ruger 10/22 and a very big 22lr bolt gun with a scope bigger than my arm on top.

I was watching the show, and one of the instructors, this guy:



Asked me if I wanted to have fun, which obviously I replied yes. He gave me his fully auto custom M4 style 22LR rifle. He corrected my stance and joked that he would teach me even though he charged 600 dollars for a full lesson. I laughed and he gave me a hold of his rifle.

I had a good blast shooting hot 22. lead at the target down range, an innocent pig took most of my hits.

After it, the guys kept shooting, including this guy....with a very nice AI in 308.



Here's mind among some of them.



Curtis and another of his members, took careful minutes to explain my stance, how I needed a point of aim, stock to tag along my spine, shoulders straight and butt relaxed, hold my breath, close my eyes and breath easy then open my eyes. If the target was still sighted in my scope, I was ready to shoot the sucker.

I did it.

So he said. "Shoot"

With the magic word, I took aim and shot a nice round through the head of my target, but I flinched and my finger was removed from the trigger after shooting. He taught me to get the finger on the trigger, so I did, so I shot.

The second round hit through the head, in a nice group for a beginner that you can see at the right side of the circle.



I shot at least fifteen rounds; changing between the paper target, the poor piggy and a steel plate with the silhouette of a man, hearing a satisfying pling of the round impacting it at 2591fps.

I gathered my casings politely.

The wind had picked up speed and in good timing, as I bet that an inexperienced shooter like me, would had trouble keeping his rounds on target with all the curtains of dust jumping all over the place.

I thanked everyone and I left with a smile on my face.TexasGunTrustLawyer, gave me his card and told me that if the guys gather around once more to shoot, he'll give me a call and I promise, I shall take more pictures.

I gave all of them a good hand shake and I left satisfied with my performance and the wonderful help I received from these guys, who for good or even better, are part of a world that just makes me smile.

-Yunis Zujur.
 
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Yustax,

Glad you made it out to the event and glad you enjoyed my m16 with tom's .22 upper. I enjoyed meeting you and your rifle was one nice rifle.

We just need to suppress it.

The event really showed us what Curtis has down with the Templar baffle designs and the effect of shortening Suppressors when coupled with efficient baffle stacks.