The term sniper or marksman is a term that is earned and is used way too loosely in the media to make their stories more interesting. There's more to being a marksman than just getting behind a rifle and squeezing a trigger. Hard work, dedication, and specific training is what makes someone a "sniper". Sad thing is, 90% of the people reading that article will also call them snipers and like stated above don't know their asses from hole in the ground about guns, training, or what that term means.
- Thread starter TheBelgian
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Did the "Beltway Sniper" have the hard work and specific training? I mean he lacked training and was ill-equipped, but was he not a sniper? His field craft was fairly spectacular. Pulling shots from close range, in broad daylight, in the relative open. The man observed, hit targets and moved under observation.
+1,000
We don't have a gun or a violence problem in the US... we have a problem with idiotic media bias.
I understand what your saying. They where just a creative way of taking out innocent people without being caught. Which is also very closely to what marksman do. The term "sniper" is thrown around way to loosely. My opinion is if you want to become a sniper its something that is earned, sign up in the military or become a LEO officer take some courses and pass the test. Every time the news comes on its either a "assault weapon" "very powerful shotgun" or a sniper rifle. Just get tired of all the media BS.
Now the media uses "sniper" just about the same way they use the term "assalt rifle" Old addage :If the blind is led by the blind,BOTH shall fall into the ditch. Paul
If we want to be all pedantic about it, a sniper is someone who is a skilled enough marksman to successfully hunt snipe. Although marksman or sharpshooter are not uncommon terms for target shooters, "sniper" in common use seems to imply killing or destroying a target.
Military snipers, police snipers, etc., may fairly imply something different, but in a generation where the most famous sniper is the Beltway Sniper, the word "sniper" alone seems to imply skill or intent rather than formal training or affiliation.
Military snipers, police snipers, etc., may fairly imply something different, but in a generation where the most famous sniper is the Beltway Sniper, the word "sniper" alone seems to imply skill or intent rather than formal training or affiliation.
Sniper is just a word that some people like to use to pat themselves on the back. Who cares what you call them?
A school doesn't make you a sniper. Shooting doesn't make you a sniper. Being in a team doesn't make you a sniper.
Hell, most times, a shooter is nothing more than a tool in a spotters drag bag, and a team is nothing more than a tool in some officer's attache'.
A school doesn't make you a sniper. Shooting doesn't make you a sniper. Being in a team doesn't make you a sniper.
Hell, most times, a shooter is nothing more than a tool in a spotters drag bag, and a team is nothing more than a tool in some officer's attache'.
Remember guys, this happened in Commiefornia. Putting the "sniper" spin on the incident gives the politicians more ideas and ammo (pun intended) to get anti-gun legislation passed.
This, or something along these lines. It seems too sophisticated for some local dirt-clod blasters to execute. The Naval Surface Warfare group that helped investigate believed it was a professional job. The attackers specifically targeted the oil cooling systems, had a well-planned approach carried out under darkness and stopped the operation and left a minute before the police arrived. That indicates to me they monitored the response.
Now, the conspiratorial part of me says maybe it was not "terrorism" but a domestic covert operation intended to look like a terrorist practice run in order to point out the weakness of our power grid and muster support for a domestic program of beefing up security of our power grid.
This may be true, but it's funny in terms of how soft we've become. I know I don't want to go through a Florida summer without A/C but I didn't realize what a whiny bitch I was until I visited the Dominican Republic in the summer. The people I know in Santo Domingo are perpetually living in what looks like the after effect of a direct hit by a large hurricane. The grid is iffy at best so they use gas to cook. As long as they have rain, they get running water twice a week and have to store it. Having a modern bathroom is all cool until you have to haul 5 gallon buckets up a flight of stairs to flush it.
Transformers ! And all along I thought they could shoot back ! Hope Bumblebee is OK ?
Yeah....Is the sequel in jeopardy???
Typical media hack piece. Labeling some demented people(s) shooting at transformers....as being "Sniper's" just serves to pump up the volume of their readers. A bunch of Dumb@sses blowing stuff up it should read. Maybe Jihadists would be stupid enough to leave brass behind......but 7.62x39 is probably low on the "Sniper's" list of rounds to use.
17 shots, 100 rounds, AK47s left there?. everyone knows its "1 shot 1 kill" so it couldn't have been a sniper. could have been KGB so silicone valley can't watch the olympics.
what they need now is a power utility SRT team with mosins mounted with countersnipers and ghillies that make them look like poles to alleviate this scurge.
what they need now is a power utility SRT team with mosins mounted with countersnipers and ghillies that make them look like poles to alleviate this scurge.
were the 47's CA compliant?
Actually I've been emailing back and forth with the WSJ author today. She's been pretty cool about the whole thing.
Her first reply to me:
As you may surmise, I had pointed out to her in my original email that we are more likely dealing with "Kalifornia Bubba" with an AK 47 and a 100 round value pack than any type of sophisticated shooter. That the choice of platform was ballistically inappropriate to the target and showed a lack of planning and knowledge.
To people whose only exposure to guns and shooters is what comes over the AP wire, and CNN, and Hollywood, if you shoot a gun that is not a handgun, you are a "Sniper". Because they do not know any better, as often as there is real intent behind it.
Her first reply to me:
As you may surmise, I had pointed out to her in my original email that we are more likely dealing with "Kalifornia Bubba" with an AK 47 and a 100 round value pack than any type of sophisticated shooter. That the choice of platform was ballistically inappropriate to the target and showed a lack of planning and knowledge.
To people whose only exposure to guns and shooters is what comes over the AP wire, and CNN, and Hollywood, if you shoot a gun that is not a handgun, you are a "Sniper". Because they do not know any better, as often as there is real intent behind it.
The grid is vulnerable (in fact more so) via an internet attack. The only people who would seek to take it down manually are either non state actors that are lacking technical sophistication, or sophisticated parties looking to inflect localized (regionalized) pain while trying to look like non state actors.
Here is a thought - we keep hearing about how vulnerable the grid is and how state actors could take it down so easily - ask yourself why they don't? Undoubtedly some state actors have the technical expertise. The reason - the shared pain if the US Econ goes down. Here is an another thing to ask yourself, how long has the US Gov known this was such a weak link? 30? 40? years? Why the emphasis on the Gov's part to bolster web defenses as opposed creating redundancy / self healing ring in the grid?
Grid down is not a state actor event. Grid down is an element of control.
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I'm with Mike here. It is my humble opinion that this great country is more mature and socially stable than most apocalyptic/zombies-are-coming/preppers tv programs like to present it. Yes, there may be some economical impact and a few scumbags may want to take advantage of things, but I don't see us in a major collapse just because we lose power for a couple of weeks. Having lived in the Caribbean area for a while I can tell you the trick to survive a power outage is rum, music, and dominoes.
Quoting one of my own replies to Rebecca which you guys apparently need to read too:
I work for a electric coop and the best way to kill power on the whole grid is to take out the transmission lines going into distribution substation which supplies power to cities and households. Also you must be able to tell difference between distribution and transmission lines 1st.
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The use of the AK round indicates a possible lack of resources, unless that choice was a purposeful misdirection. It sure wasn't drunken Bubbas though. From KCET.org :
"The scenario Smith describes suggests a highly disciplined assault by a disciplined group of people who had planned things to the last detail, including cutting phone lines so that they couldn't be repaired easily, precise targeting of crucial cooling equipment that would cause the transformers to overheat and shut down without making them explode due to direct gunfire, and pre-planned flashlight signals to direct gunmen to commence and end the attack.
Shell casings found on the site by investigators were free of fingerprints, and small piles of rocks marking the best places to taking shots at coolant may have been placed by advance scouts."
"The scenario Smith describes suggests a highly disciplined assault by a disciplined group of people who had planned things to the last detail, including cutting phone lines so that they couldn't be repaired easily, precise targeting of crucial cooling equipment that would cause the transformers to overheat and shut down without making them explode due to direct gunfire, and pre-planned flashlight signals to direct gunmen to commence and end the attack.
Shell casings found on the site by investigators were free of fingerprints, and small piles of rocks marking the best places to taking shots at coolant may have been placed by advance scouts."
About 12-15 years ago, the military started to drop the term "Sniper" because it denoted the bad guy. They decided to try "Target interdiction teams". Needless to say this trial balloon went over like lead. I mean really, say you are at a bar and meet a nice honey and she wants to know what you do. How do you answer that? I'm a T.I.T. , I am a member of T.I.T.S. or I can't see you next week because my TITS are on alert or My TITS are up for standby this weekend. ROTFLMAO!!!!! A lot of good points here but the copy cats will be out next week, you can bet on it, the media want to inflame the nutjobs out there. Elnino and sendero are right, I think.
"Burro, burrow. One is an ass, the other a hole in the ground. As a reporter, you should know the difference." Forget who said that.
1911fan
In fairness, at least in my humble experience, getting shot at with any type of projectile is pretty fucking scary. But, I'll agree that the media loves to give the impression that any criminal with a long gun is a "sniper", and any bullet that at all resembles something used by the military (i.e: ball ammo) is a super-powered, ultra-velocity, armor-defeating, assault-causing, insane weapon of mass death production!
Bosh.
1. If this is an effort to attack our electrical grid then we are in good shape. The grid has far more sensitive points of attack than transformers that are much more time consuming and expensive to repair and that don't take 19 minutes and one helluva lot of noise to attack.
2. This is the sort of "attack" on transformers power companies have seen for over 100 years. Confusing vandalism with terrorism is incredibly wasteful in terms of the angst it causes with the general public and the LE resources it consumes. It is also a gross distraction from potential large scale attacks.
3. If power companies choose to do so they can (and sometimes do) install a fairly inexpensive system on every single transformer that would let them know the moment it goes down. That this is not done on every transformer in the country should tell you something about the risk profile.
4. FINALLY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: What constitutes a sniper is pertinent to the conversation because it shapes the story, the amount of attention it gets, and forms the cultural gestalt that is now nothing short of mania. If the public is alarmed over it LE has a tendency to dump more resources into it to assuage fears of jihadist cells attacking our infrastructure. "Yahoo Vandals Exhibiting Well Worn Behavior For The Billionth Time Over The Last Dozen Decades" isn't the attention grabbing headline that is going to get some pit reporter noticed by their editor or garner the number of hits that will propel them to the forefront of cutting edge interweb terrorist sleuthdom that they seek.
Terms like sniper, terrorist, WMDs, assault rifle, glock, and on and on are spilled onto news pages with astonishing volume so diluting them that it is an important task to parse out what these words actually mean. This is an affliction of the media to which the WSJ only suffered long after the majority had succumbed.
"Is sloppiness in speech caused by ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care."
-William Safire
I consider it an astounding irony that the New York Times, which has devoted so much print on the importance of language and the accuracy of language via Mr William Safire , is the standard bearer of the use of so much sloppy speech. We should never condone it, bow to it, or ease off for a single moment in offering corrections.
“But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.”
― George Orwell, 1984
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I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as redneck vandalism. I just heard an intereview with the former director of FERC who was in charge at the time and who inspected the site after the attack. What he said was that greater than 90% of the rounds fired were on target (over 100 rounds, fired in the dark). Also that com lines were cut and that there was some coordination in signaling to withdraw "70 seconds before police arrived". I'm not saying what it was, just saying no one knows and it's not smart to pretend you know what you don't.
Roger that. No assumptions made. There are numerous shootings of phone lines, power lines, and associated equipment every year. This one made the news. These particular shots landed over an area at least 60 feet wide, most of them no where near a transformer. The night was clear, visibility beyond 10 miles and a waxing crescent moon. Wind speed was 15-20 mph, but that is typical of this area. Not what I'd call sniper work. But that's an assumption.
I dont think its neccessarily redneck vandalism, despite my joking use of california bubba.
But ecojerks are not Al' Qaeda in the Kommifornia. And 90 of 100 AK rounds fired by a couple of shooters who wore gloves making it into 2sqft target zones from around 100 yards distant is not exactly particularly precision marksmanship.
Its certainly worth noting a level of sophistication that is higher than 2 drunk jerks firing a shotgun randomly past the fence, but critically read the original AP article. Half of the derivative articles are layers of crap adding onto an already poorly speculative wire piece with a poor source.
I wonder if they have looked into the possibility that these were former employees with a grudge.
I wouldn't pretend to know their system but taking out one sub shouldn't destroy a company's transmission system, let alone bring down the national grid. Equipment is constantly breaking, being struck by lightning, etc. The load is shifted and very few people even see an interruption.
I wouldn't pretend to know their system but taking out one sub shouldn't destroy a company's transmission system, let alone bring down the national grid. Equipment is constantly breaking, being struck by lightning, etc. The load is shifted and very few people even see an interruption.
It's sad to see CNN already picked up on it and ran with the same title. I would have hoped to see the author (Rebecca) take proper action and address the misinformation before it kept spreading. But then again, we have to ask ourselves what's the real goal for these reporters.
Sad and probably true...
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